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[M] YGL Nightfall

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
lawol
Profile Joined February 2011
91 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-07 21:24:40
August 18 2012 18:46 GMT
#1


Map Name: immi Nightfall
Download: Search for "immi Nightfall" in game (EU only atm! Will sort NA later!)

Map size: 156x128
Game types: 1v1
Number of player spawns: 2
Number of bases: 10

Destructable rocks block the shortest route to the 3rd.
Xel'Naga towers provide vision of middle crossing.
None of the high grounds are drop able.

Current images are from version 1.6.

Top down picture:
[image loading]

Change log:
07 / 09 / 2011
- published version 1.6 to Bnet (EU)

Preview images:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

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[image loading]


Map analyser pictures:
+ Show Spoiler +
brb, bumping analyser thread...


Building placement pictures:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

[image loading]


Old pictures - in no particular order or naming:
I'm just saying for those who need to be careful about a lot of images, there are loads in the spoiler below.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]

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[image loading]

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[image loading]
@lawolawol
ameob1
Profile Joined May 2012
United States3 Posts
August 18 2012 19:19 GMT
#2
I like the map, but I think that there should be some sort of highground in the middle, its too open. Otherwise good map!
Naniwa! Huk! gogo Protoss!
Infernal_dream
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2359 Posts
August 18 2012 19:23 GMT
#3
You need something blocking one of the routes into the natural. Starting it off with two openings makes it hard for protoss/terran to fast expo against zerg.
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-18 20:08:20
August 18 2012 20:06 GMT
#4
The 3rd and 4th are way too close. That's the biggest problem.

As you say, this is basically just Daybreak. Except you have a lot of proportion issues (open space, closeness -- chokes are somewhat okay). Your map differs from Daybreak how? In that it is worse. What does it do differently? It puts the rocks on the side paths, the towers are on the sides, and there's no center base. Why do you want it this way? Unless you redesign some major elements of the map, you'll have to directly compare it to Daybreak (which is a fine map to compare to generally) and come up with real reasons for why you want something else. Then you have to think about what effect this has in all the matchups at all points in the game, and compensate for anything you didn't foresee at first. I'm not saying these are insignificant changes; nor am I saying the above is why it's worse. It's worse for a lot of reasons, mostly use of space (bad proportions). What I'm talking about is thinking intentionally about what kind of map you are trying to make and a really helpful way to get this thought process started is compare it to other maps you know intimately (like ladder/tournament maps).

Also... just pick a name. You can change it later, the mods are pretty quick about especially with a PM. We are in double digits "no name WIP" threads.

----

Not a bad effort but it lacks raison d'etre and refinement.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
killy666
Profile Joined July 2012
France204 Posts
August 18 2012 21:02 GMT
#5
I'm not a fan of Z shaped choke in the middle. Eventhough it's pretty large for a choke, i still think it can be abused by siege / deathballs.
My life is sicker than your band
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10153 Posts
August 18 2012 21:44 GMT
#6
Barren Wasteland.

4th too close to 3rd, move it more toward the center bases. dontl ike all the middle ground open space. maybe some high ground pods or something.

3rd seems too far from natural. also the path going to the third from natural seems weird.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Glexarn
Profile Joined December 2010
United States40 Posts
August 18 2012 23:16 GMT
#7
If you stick your army in that open field and turtle up (walling off the far ramp to the 4th), you defend all 4 bases from one position. That's really dangerous.
"I am greatful for the sharpest criticism, as long as it is factual." -Otto von Bismarck
BreakfastBurrito
Profile Joined November 2011
United States893 Posts
August 19 2012 00:19 GMT
#8
You should call it... Nightfall.
twitch.tv/jaytherey | Yapper891 if you are reading this, PM me. its Twisty.
Scurvy
Profile Joined March 2012
United States117 Posts
August 19 2012 01:42 GMT
#9
That is a lot of empty space there in the middle.
With it or on it.
lawol
Profile Joined February 2011
91 Posts
August 19 2012 12:26 GMT
#10
Hey! Thanks for all the replies! I was actually not sure if it was worth it posting on here first. Mega feedback :D

On August 19 2012 05:06 EatThePath wrote:
The 3rd and 4th are way too close. That's the biggest problem.

As you say, this is basically just Daybreak. Except you have a lot of proportion issues (open space, closeness -- chokes are somewhat okay). Your map differs from Daybreak how? In that it is worse. What does it do differently? It puts the rocks on the side paths, the towers are on the sides, and there's no center base. Why do you want it this way? Unless you redesign some major elements of the map, you'll have to directly compare it to Daybreak (which is a fine map to compare to generally) and come up with real reasons for why you want something else. Then you have to think about what effect this has in all the matchups at all points in the game, and compensate for anything you didn't foresee at first. I'm not saying these are insignificant changes; nor am I saying the above is why it's worse. It's worse for a lot of reasons, mostly use of space (bad proportions). What I'm talking about is thinking intentionally about what kind of map you are trying to make and a really helpful way to get this thought process started is compare it to other maps you know intimately (like ladder/tournament maps).

Also... just pick a name. You can change it later, the mods are pretty quick about especially with a PM. We are in double digits "no name WIP" threads.

----

Not a bad effort but it lacks raison d'etre and refinement.


Pfft I had to google "raison d'etre"! You're right though its basically a crummy version of daybreak atm. I just wanted to make a map with some of the similar features to daybreak - as its an awesome map. I'll deffo have to start thinking of how I can make some of the changes, but also why they are needed. Thanks! :D

So from what I can gather to apparent main issues are:

- too much openess ~ maybe add some form of high ground or move the 4th a bit more to the center.

- two entrances to the natural being bad ~ I assume rocks wont be such a terrible fix

- 3rd and 4th are too close together ~ will look at re-arranging both (probly move 5th about as well, though not sure)

- the mid choke needs changing ~ probably make it bigger I guess lol

- no reason for existence Q_Q ~ maybe learn french to think of an appropriate comeback

On August 19 2012 09:19 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
You should call it... Nightfall.

=o
@lawolawol
TwistedFate
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom9 Posts
August 19 2012 18:41 GMT
#11
On August 19 2012 09:19 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
You should call it... Nightfall.



+1

Nice looking map, should be interesting to see how it turns out!
lawol
Profile Joined February 2011
91 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-20 17:26:45
August 20 2012 17:26 GMT
#12
I've tried to add some of the changes and it's starting to look better, I think anyway. Not sure if moving the 4th to where it currently is, is a good or bad thing. Also wondering if I should bring the 3rd a bit closer as well.

Anyway thanks for the help guys! IMO its really improved thanks to your replies, if possible any more would be highly appreciated! On a less map related note, who do you PM for a topic change? And is it possible to label spoilers? So that it doesn't just say "+ Spoiler +" but something like "+ Old Pictures+" or something.

- edit: updated the OP with new pics.
@lawolawol
Scurvy
Profile Joined March 2012
United States117 Posts
August 20 2012 22:08 GMT
#13
Looks much better with the high ground in the middle areas. Thats just my untrained, complete map-making noob thoughts
With it or on it.
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
August 20 2012 22:11 GMT
#14
On August 21 2012 07:08 Scurvy wrote:
Looks much better with the high ground in the middle areas. Thats just my untrained, complete map-making noob thoughts

I must be an untrained, complete map-making noob too, because I agree
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2141 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-20 22:56:22
August 20 2012 22:56 GMT
#15
Fix the mineral lines at the 5ths, right now they are asymmetrical.

Also, I'm curious as to why you put rocks on the ramps at the 5ths. Personally I'd probably remove them since they don't seem necessary, but maybe you had a good reason for doing it.
vibeo gane,
Jambo101
Profile Joined January 2012
United States7 Posts
August 21 2012 00:45 GMT
#16
For me it seems like the 4th is still kind of in a strange spot (idk if it's just from this angle but it seems too far out in the middle of the map and yet too much of a choke from the third or the front of your other bases and seems like your opponent would have you in a choke no matter which angle you attack from to protect the 4th). Other than that it looks good. Maybe put a ramp up to the high ground behind the 4th? I like the upper and lower attack paths (nice and open good placement for tanks and things of that nature) also as long as the other high grounds in the middle areas is big enough to put a tank on I dig it.
"I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of gum"
Amridell
Profile Joined December 2011
188 Posts
August 21 2012 02:52 GMT
#17
On August 19 2012 09:19 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
You should call it... Nightfall.


I have always loved that name...and now a map to be called it...I like...

+5^120,000,000,000
"As to the pool game. You'll notice he played like a faggot."
lawol
Profile Joined February 2011
91 Posts
August 22 2012 20:11 GMT
#18
On August 21 2012 07:56 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Fix the mineral lines at the 5ths, right now they are asymmetrical.

Also, I'm curious as to why you put rocks on the ramps at the 5ths. Personally I'd probably remove them since they don't seem necessary, but maybe you had a good reason for doing it.

The rocks were one of the first things I added when I first started messing around, they dont really belong anymore your'e right. And thanks for the mineral misplacement notice! =p

I've added newer pics. Made some tiny changes here and there. Mostly just smoothing out the edges of cliffs to make it look a bit more natural. Still not so sure what to do with the 4th but I think it will have to stay there for now. I also started messing with the textures and trying some doodads ~ man it's hard to decorate this texture set =o

I think I shall claim Nightfall! I just don't know who to PM to change the topic title.
@lawolawol
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
August 22 2012 20:27 GMT
#19
[image loading]
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
HypertonicHydroponic
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
437 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-22 23:48:51
August 22 2012 20:48 GMT
#20
On August 23 2012 05:11 lawol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2012 07:56 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Fix the mineral lines at the 5ths, right now they are asymmetrical.

Also, I'm curious as to why you put rocks on the ramps at the 5ths. Personally I'd probably remove them since they don't seem necessary, but maybe you had a good reason for doing it.

The rocks were one of the first things I added when I first started messing around, they dont really belong anymore your'e right. And thanks for the mineral misplacement notice! =p

I've added newer pics. Made some tiny changes here and there. Mostly just smoothing out the edges of cliffs to make it look a bit more natural. Still not so sure what to do with the 4th but I think it will have to stay there for now. I also started messing with the textures and trying some doodads ~ man it's hard to decorate this texture set =o

I think I shall claim Nightfall! I just don't know who to PM to change the topic title.

I think Aunvilgod makes some good suggestions but I might keep some of that high ground around the 4th and simply put a ramp on one of the two ends for strategic drop/air harass and defense. If you just push the base back over to the edge of the map you get something that is less unique incomparison daybreak. A ramp toward the third is better for surprise drop/nydus play earlier in the game and is more conducive to harass type units; a ramp toward the fifth is better for siege and cliff abuse and it would help to pull the army further out of position for a backstab at the natural.

EDIT: I forgot to add that you can ask Barrin to rename your map as I think he is still the mod for this forum (send him a PM). I think Plexa has done this before, too, since he has been known to frequent this forum.
[P] The Watery Archives -- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=279070
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