[M] YGL Nightfall

lawol

91 Posts

August 18 2012 18:46 GMT

Map Name: immi Nightfall
Download: Search for "immi Nightfall" in game (EU only atm! Will sort NA later!)

Map size: 156x128
Game types: 1v1
Number of player spawns: 2
Number of bases: 10

Destructable rocks block the shortest route to the 3rd.
Xel'Naga towers provide vision of middle crossing.
None of the high grounds are drop able.

Current images are from version 1.6.

Top down picture:

Change log:
07 / 09 / 2011
- published version 1.6 to Bnet (EU)

Preview images:
+ Show Spoiler +

Map analyser pictures:
+ Show Spoiler +

brb, bumping analyser thread...

Building placement pictures:
+ Show Spoiler +

Old pictures - in no particular order or naming:
I'm just saying for those who need to be careful about a lot of images, there are loads in the spoiler below.
+ Show Spoiler +

ameob1

United States3 Posts

August 18 2012 19:19 GMT

I like the map, but I think that there should be some sort of highground in the middle, its too open. Otherwise good map!

Infernal_dream

United States2359 Posts

August 18 2012 19:23 GMT

You need something blocking one of the routes into the natural. Starting it off with two openings makes it hard for protoss/terran to fast expo against zerg.

EatThePath

United States3943 Posts

August 18 2012 20:06 GMT

The 3rd and 4th are way too close. That's the biggest problem.

As you say, this is basically just Daybreak. Except you have a lot of proportion issues (open space, closeness -- chokes are somewhat okay). Your map differs from Daybreak how? In that it is worse. What does it do differently? It puts the rocks on the side paths, the towers are on the sides, and there's no center base. Why do you want it this way? Unless you redesign some major elements of the map, you'll have to directly compare it to Daybreak (which is a fine map to compare to generally) and come up with real reasons for why you want something else. Then you have to think about what effect this has in all the matchups at all points in the game, and compensate for anything you didn't foresee at first. I'm not saying these are insignificant changes; nor am I saying the above is why it's worse. It's worse for a lot of reasons, mostly use of space (bad proportions). What I'm talking about is thinking intentionally about what kind of map you are trying to make and a really helpful way to get this thought process started is compare it to other maps you know intimately (like ladder/tournament maps).

Also... just pick a name. You can change it later, the mods are pretty quick about especially with a PM. We are in double digits "no name WIP" threads.

----

Not a bad effort but it lacks raison d'etre and refinement.

killy666

France204 Posts

August 18 2012 21:02 GMT

I'm not a fan of Z shaped choke in the middle. Eventhough it's pretty large for a choke, i still think it can be abused by siege / deathballs.

FlaShFTW

United States10277 Posts

August 18 2012 21:44 GMT

Barren Wasteland.

4th too close to 3rd, move it more toward the center bases. dontl ike all the middle ground open space. maybe some high ground pods or something.

3rd seems too far from natural. also the path going to the third from natural seems weird.

Glexarn

United States40 Posts

August 18 2012 23:16 GMT

If you stick your army in that open field and turtle up (walling off the far ramp to the 4th), you defend all 4 bases from one position. That's really dangerous.

BreakfastBurrito

United States893 Posts

August 19 2012 00:19 GMT

You should call it... Nightfall.

Scurvy

United States117 Posts

August 19 2012 01:42 GMT

That is a lot of empty space there in the middle.

lawol

91 Posts

August 19 2012 12:26 GMT

#10

Hey! Thanks for all the replies! I was actually not sure if it was worth it posting on here first. Mega feedback :D

On August 19 2012 05:06 EatThePath wrote:
The 3rd and 4th are way too close. That's the biggest problem.

As you say, this is basically just Daybreak. Except you have a lot of proportion issues (open space, closeness -- chokes are somewhat okay). Your map differs from Daybreak how? In that it is worse. What does it do differently? It puts the rocks on the side paths, the towers are on the sides, and there's no center base. Why do you want it this way? Unless you redesign some major elements of the map, you'll have to directly compare it to Daybreak (which is a fine map to compare to generally) and come up with real reasons for why you want something else. Then you have to think about what effect this has in all the matchups at all points in the game, and compensate for anything you didn't foresee at first. I'm not saying these are insignificant changes; nor am I saying the above is why it's worse. It's worse for a lot of reasons, mostly use of space (bad proportions). What I'm talking about is thinking intentionally about what kind of map you are trying to make and a really helpful way to get this thought process started is compare it to other maps you know intimately (like ladder/tournament maps).

Also... just pick a name. You can change it later, the mods are pretty quick about especially with a PM. We are in double digits "no name WIP" threads.

----

Not a bad effort but it lacks raison d'etre and refinement.

Pfft I had to google "raison d'etre"! You're right though its basically a crummy version of daybreak atm. I just wanted to make a map with some of the similar features to daybreak - as its an awesome map. I'll deffo have to start thinking of how I can make some of the changes, but also why they are needed. Thanks! :D

So from what I can gather to apparent main issues are:

- too much openess ~ maybe add some form of high ground or move the 4th a bit more to the center.

- two entrances to the natural being bad ~ I assume rocks wont be such a terrible fix

- 3rd and 4th are too close together ~ will look at re-arranging both (probly move 5th about as well, though not sure)

- the mid choke needs changing ~ probably make it bigger I guess lol

- no reason for existence Q_Q ~ maybe learn french to think of an appropriate comeback

On August 19 2012 09:19 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
You should call it... Nightfall.

TwistedFate

United Kingdom9 Posts

August 19 2012 18:41 GMT

#11

On August 19 2012 09:19 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
You should call it... Nightfall.

+1

Nice looking map, should be interesting to see how it turns out!

lawol

91 Posts

August 20 2012 17:26 GMT

#12

I've tried to add some of the changes and it's starting to look better, I think anyway. Not sure if moving the 4th to where it currently is, is a good or bad thing. Also wondering if I should bring the 3rd a bit closer as well.

Anyway thanks for the help guys! IMO its really improved thanks to your replies, if possible any more would be highly appreciated! On a less map related note, who do you PM for a topic change? And is it possible to label spoilers? So that it doesn't just say "+ Spoiler +" but something like "+ Old Pictures+" or something.

- edit: updated the OP with new pics.

Scurvy

United States117 Posts

August 20 2012 22:08 GMT

#13

Looks much better with the high ground in the middle areas. Thats just my untrained, complete map-making noob thoughts

The_Templar

your Country52797 Posts

August 20 2012 22:11 GMT

#14

On August 21 2012 07:08 Scurvy wrote:
Looks much better with the high ground in the middle areas. Thats just my untrained, complete map-making noob thoughts

I must be an untrained, complete map-making noob too, because I agree

-NegativeZero-

United States2142 Posts

August 20 2012 22:56 GMT

#15

Fix the mineral lines at the 5ths, right now they are asymmetrical.

Also, I'm curious as to why you put rocks on the ramps at the 5ths. Personally I'd probably remove them since they don't seem necessary, but maybe you had a good reason for doing it.

Jambo101

United States7 Posts

August 21 2012 00:45 GMT

#16

For me it seems like the 4th is still kind of in a strange spot (idk if it's just from this angle but it seems too far out in the middle of the map and yet too much of a choke from the third or the front of your other bases and seems like your opponent would have you in a choke no matter which angle you attack from to protect the 4th). Other than that it looks good. Maybe put a ramp up to the high ground behind the 4th? I like the upper and lower attack paths (nice and open good placement for tanks and things of that nature) also as long as the other high grounds in the middle areas is big enough to put a tank on I dig it.

Amridell

188 Posts

August 21 2012 02:52 GMT

#17

On August 19 2012 09:19 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
You should call it... Nightfall.

I have always loved that name...and now a map to be called it...I like...

+5^120,000,000,000

lawol

91 Posts

August 22 2012 20:11 GMT

#18

On August 21 2012 07:56 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Fix the mineral lines at the 5ths, right now they are asymmetrical.

Also, I'm curious as to why you put rocks on the ramps at the 5ths. Personally I'd probably remove them since they don't seem necessary, but maybe you had a good reason for doing it.

The rocks were one of the first things I added when I first started messing around, they dont really belong anymore your'e right. And thanks for the mineral misplacement notice! =p

I've added newer pics. Made some tiny changes here and there. Mostly just smoothing out the edges of cliffs to make it look a bit more natural. Still not so sure what to do with the 4th but I think it will have to stay there for now. I also started messing with the textures and trying some doodads ~ man it's hard to decorate this texture set =o

I think I shall claim Nightfall! I just don't know who to PM to change the topic title.

Aunvilgod

2653 Posts

August 22 2012 20:27 GMT

#19

HypertonicHydroponic

437 Posts

August 22 2012 20:48 GMT

#20

On August 23 2012 05:11 lawol wrote:

Show nested quote +

I think Aunvilgod makes some good suggestions but I might keep some of that high ground around the 4th and simply put a ramp on one of the two ends for strategic drop/air harass and defense. If you just push the base back over to the edge of the map you get something that is less unique incomparison daybreak. A ramp toward the third is better for surprise drop/nydus play earlier in the game and is more conducive to harass type units; a ramp toward the fifth is better for siege and cliff abuse and it would help to pull the army further out of position for a backstab at the natural.

EDIT: I forgot to add that you can ask Barrin to rename your map as I think he is still the mod for this forum (send him a PM). I think Plexa has done this before, too, since he has been known to frequent this forum.

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