• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:35
CEST 15:35
KST 22:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles1[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China7Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL64Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?13FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
SC uni coach streams logging into betting site BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 Preliminary Maps Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL
Tourneys
[BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2024! Summer Games Done Quick 2025!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 718 users

[mod] ELO rating for SC2

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
turtles
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia360 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-24 18:47:15
July 24 2012 07:44 GMT
#1
[image loading]

I'm just in the last stages of creating a mod which can be added to any map and will keep track of the players Elo rating.

For those of you who do not know what an Elo rating is it is the ratings system used in chess and many other competitions (including League of Legends).

This is so that people in clans who practice against eachother in custom games already can have a rating to compare each other with. Simply looking at things like ladder ranking will not be an effective way to compare players. This mod was origionally a request by one of the best clans from SEA but I decided to make it more general purpose so it could be used by many different clans/communities. In fact, many people have been requesting that Blizzards public ladder be an Elo system from the very release of SC2.

How it works is:
# join the game with your opponent.
# you can create a new tournament and provide a password if you wish it to be private
# select which tournaments you would like to be rated in.
# click on "compete" to activate a tournament or "opt out" to deactivate it
# When either player clicks on "ready" the game will begin.
# each players score will be recorded based on win/loss and updated for the next game.

Once it has been set up how you like it the first game simply click on the "ready" button each time you play and you don't even have to think about it other than that. It will just keep tracking your Elo rating across all games and all maps with this mod in it providing a usefull and meaningful comparisson of players in your clan/friends group/community.

I have included some pics to demonstrate the creation/selection of tournaments

at the start of the game:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


One player inviting the other to a tournament
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Players click on "compete" to enter the tournament
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Demonstration of me trying to cheat by editing my bank file to artificially increase my rating in "Global" (notice that it has been erased from my profile) and providing a false password to try and join the "Evil Geniuses" group.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Notice that in the "active tournament" list each tournament has the percentage chance for each player to win calculated by their ratings.

NOTE: To demonstrate I just picked some well known names randomly from the EG/TL clans. I don't mean to imply anything about their relative skill levels.

Currently this will not work on screen resolutions < 1280x720. That will be one of the first things I will be fixing.

I am currently looking for people to help test the mod or to just provide general feedback. at the moment there is only 1 map released with this mod which is "ELO Cloud Kingdom". Just search for Elo on NA server and it should be listed. Thanks and I look forward to hearing what you all think.

Thanks for your time.
Turtles.

Elo details:
+ Show Spoiler +
In the near future more customization will be possible but for the moment players start with a rating of 1000. K is set at 15 and there is a minimum limit set on ratings to prevent deflation. I will soon be putting in measures to stop inflation as well as maybe giving the computer AI a fixed Elo rating for each difficulty level to help stabalize scores.


Anti-cheating measures:
+ Show Spoiler +
"a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link". Currently all maps can be cracked and any methods to secure data in a bank file reverse engineered (there is nothing anyone but Blizzard can do about this). Players Elo scores are protected with a one way hash function such that some joe-schmoe can't simply just go and edit them directly. However, I have no doubt that some bright cookie with WWAAAAYYYY too much time on his hands would be able to cheat and give himself a higher rating
+ Show Spoiler +
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-24 13:55:44
July 24 2012 13:14 GMT
#2
The UI looks good.

Is Elo the best rating system for a game like Starcraft? Systems like TrueSkill or Glicko are maybe better. The main difference is that they use more than one value, so one can also see the estimated confidence (accuracy) in the rating.

(By the way it is Elo, not ELO.)
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
TaShadan
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany1967 Posts
July 24 2012 17:00 GMT
#3
ELO is atleast better than the actual system. Glicko is ELO with deviation?
Total Annihilation Zero
turtles
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia360 Posts
July 24 2012 18:45 GMT
#4
Is Elo the best rating system for a game like Starcraft? Systems like TrueSkill or Glicko are maybe better.


I'm glad you asked

I will be putting a check box in the "create new tournament" dialog so you can chose Elo or Glicko (maybe other systems such as TrueSkill). I have had this intention from the begining so it will not be hard to do.

The hard bit is getting the dialogs set up so that the two players can interact with the lists of tournaments simultaniously which I think I have mostly bugless by now (or at least only small squishy bugs).

Elo is the most widely known algorithm and what was origionally requested so thats how I started it.

Glicko is ELO with deviation?

In a nut shell, yes.

By the way it is Elo, not ELO.

Thanks. Fixed.
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-25 11:22:24
July 25 2012 09:50 GMT
#5
About the Elo name: The system was devised by Arpad Elo, "Elo" is no acronym.

I don't know about the details of how you store the points. Maybe a solution could be, to – unless one opts out – calculate the points for any system which is implemented.

I am no rating system expert, so the following should be taken with that in mind. If we want to have a meaning full skill value instead of just a number which somehow is intended to reflect the skill, we should keep in mind that a win or loss streak maybe doesn't mean that much in Starcraft, but most rating systems react quite sensible.

The test of the rating accuracy could be to convert ranking difference in winning probability and check how good the prediction is. To lower the noise factor of course a good number of games has to be considered.

But unless a ranking system (be it Elo or Glicko) does allow predictions, I think the rating would be just a mathimatical play with no application.
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
turtles
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia360 Posts
July 25 2012 20:29 GMT
#6
These are all bridges to be crossed when I get to them :D

I want to make sure that the basic system works well before expanding on it and it still needs a little work.

I would like to eventually accumulate data on how accurate the predictions are. Without getting into the tricky details I can think of ways to do this while preventing duplicates of data. But it would be a tricky task.



Elo assumes that a players performance will be normally distributed which might not be the case for SC2. If I were to gues I would think player performance would have a gradual slope on the low side and a steep slope on the higher side. Meaning that a player will usually play within a certain level of ability. On a good day they can get a slight edge and perform a bit better than normal but if their play is off then they can play really poorly at a much lower level than their normal play.

If I accumulate data that shows a different pattern then the algorithm could be adjusted. However I think people trust systems like Elo and Glicko and would prefer it to some custom ranking scheme I created even if it was more accurate.
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
July 25 2012 20:34 GMT
#7
I fully back the Turtles system.

Honestly, the Turtles system would be the most hilarious system for tracking rank.

"Hey iNcontroL, what's your Turtles rank?"
"OMG, Fantasy just got more Turtles than Flash!"
"You can't really compare SC2 Turtles to BW Turtles, that just doesn't make sense."
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
turtles
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia360 Posts
July 26 2012 18:59 GMT
#8
Obviously the turtles rank would be percentage of how good you are compared to others ranging from 0% to 99.9% which would be the highest available score.

I would just set it so that I was the only person in the world who was 100% turtles

+ Show Spoiler +

j/k

Pretty sure existing ranking systems are plenty "good enough" for the task. They also have the advantage that a lot of people already know how they work and have been shown to be useful in other fields
stormchaser
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada1009 Posts
July 26 2012 19:54 GMT
#9
Hm I'm intrigued, gonna try this out tonight.
VediVeci
Profile Joined October 2011
United States82 Posts
August 23 2012 00:47 GMT
#10
I'm not 100% comfortable with the higher level theoretical implications of trueskill, but one thing about trueskill is that it was created to deal with games involving multiple teams, each team with one or more players. That is where the main advantage of Trueskill lies for Microsoft, and trueskill isn't necessarily all that much better for head-to-head, 1v1 games. Further, since you don't have a matchmaking system implemented, the trueskill algorithm would be dealing with much larger discrepancies in skill and uncertainty than it is intended to, which I think may cause some wacky results (I'd have to double check this, I haven't looked over the math behind it in a few months).
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
11:00
#43
WardiTV1322
OGKoka 522
Harstem427
IndyStarCraft 169
Rex167
CranKy Ducklings122
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 522
Harstem 427
Hui .184
IndyStarCraft 169
Rex 167
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 2963
Flash 2112
Jaedong 1818
Hyuk 1166
firebathero 688
EffOrt 645
ZerO 538
Larva 508
actioN 436
Soulkey 387
[ Show more ]
Stork 378
Snow 308
Soma 275
GuemChi 168
Mind 132
sSak 113
Pusan 111
Light 98
PianO 80
hero 77
Sharp 74
JulyZerg 72
TY 55
Barracks 46
Sea.KH 44
Yoon 38
Aegong 35
sorry 32
Free 30
GoRush 26
soO 24
zelot 23
Movie 22
JYJ20
HiyA 20
yabsab 19
IntoTheRainbow 11
Terrorterran 10
Shine 8
ivOry 4
Dota 2
qojqva3148
Gorgc2576
XaKoH 621
XcaliburYe297
syndereN293
League of Legends
singsing2548
Counter-Strike
byalli263
markeloff128
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King169
Other Games
hiko1144
B2W.Neo1138
crisheroes383
Beastyqt345
Lowko310
ArmadaUGS128
Liquid`VortiX84
ZerO(Twitch)24
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick37693
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 889
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2960
• WagamamaTV335
League of Legends
• Nemesis5594
Upcoming Events
RotterdaM Event
2h 25m
Replay Cast
10h 25m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
20h 25m
WardiTV European League
1d 2h
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
1d 10h
The PondCast
1d 20h
WardiTV European League
1d 22h
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
4 days
FEL
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 20
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.