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On May 02 2012 11:07 iGrok wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 10:39 prodiG wrote:
Ah, the time-honored tradition of post-MotM results post salt. A coming-of-age for many mapmakers who have yet to grow the thick layer of skin needed to grow as a mapmaker and accept criticism on their maps, or display the fact that they are disappointed with one of the only mediums to evaluate your skills as a mapmaker or recieve attention for your skills from the public eye as a whole.
I love these threads. Congrats to the winners, you guys deserved it. To the losers, as I say always... step your game up and better luck next time. We need to organize a drinking game based around this. Drink when: "Can judges please post feedback." "I don't understand why X map didn't make it." "I am pro and this other map should be in." "What about the special awards" The word "aesthetics", "innovative", is used more than 3 times in a post. Mereel doesn't make the Top 5 (<3) Shot when: User was warned for this post. "X map is just a copy of Y" "This is biased for mappers on teams" "When are there going to be more themed MotMs?" Finish your drink when: User was banned for this post. "baskerville"
"All of the winners are too standard, its the same map over and over again."
"The winning map(s) are imbalanced and only chosen because they are innovative."
"This map was only chosen because it has nice aesthetics, layout is shit."
"Wtf is with the aesthetics?? The map is so ugly it isn't even playable."
[edit]
Congrats to the other top five maps and mapmakers!
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On May 02 2012 11:11 monitor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 11:07 iGrok wrote:On May 02 2012 10:39 prodiG wrote:
Ah, the time-honored tradition of post-MotM results post salt. A coming-of-age for many mapmakers who have yet to grow the thick layer of skin needed to grow as a mapmaker and accept criticism on their maps, or display the fact that they are disappointed with one of the only mediums to evaluate your skills as a mapmaker or recieve attention for your skills from the public eye as a whole.
I love these threads. Congrats to the winners, you guys deserved it. To the losers, as I say always... step your game up and better luck next time. We need to organize a drinking game based around this. Drink when: "Can judges please post feedback." "I don't understand why X map didn't make it." "I am pro and this other map should be in." "What about the special awards" The word "aesthetics", "innovative", is used more than 3 times in a post. Mereel doesn't make the Top 5 (<3) Shot when: User was warned for this post. "X map is just a copy of Y" "This is biased for mappers on teams" "When are there going to be more themed MotMs?" Finish your drink when: User was banned for this post. "baskerville" "All of the winners are too standard, its the same map over and over again." "The winning map(s) are imbalanced and only chosen because they are innovative." "This map was only chosen because it has nice aesthetics, layout is shit." "Wtf is with the aesthetics?? The map is so ugly it isn't even playable." [edit] Congrats to the other top five maps and mapmakers!
Deleted b/c people misunderstood the meaning 
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On May 02 2012 11:28 DYEAlabaster wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 11:11 monitor wrote:On May 02 2012 11:07 iGrok wrote:On May 02 2012 10:39 prodiG wrote:
Ah, the time-honored tradition of post-MotM results post salt. A coming-of-age for many mapmakers who have yet to grow the thick layer of skin needed to grow as a mapmaker and accept criticism on their maps, or display the fact that they are disappointed with one of the only mediums to evaluate your skills as a mapmaker or recieve attention for your skills from the public eye as a whole.
I love these threads. Congrats to the winners, you guys deserved it. To the losers, as I say always... step your game up and better luck next time. We need to organize a drinking game based around this. Drink when: "Can judges please post feedback." "I don't understand why X map didn't make it." "I am pro and this other map should be in." "What about the special awards" The word "aesthetics", "innovative", is used more than 3 times in a post. Mereel doesn't make the Top 5 (<3) Shot when: User was warned for this post. "X map is just a copy of Y" "This is biased for mappers on teams" "When are there going to be more themed MotMs?" Finish your drink when: User was banned for this post. "baskerville" "All of the winners are too standard, its the same map over and over again." "The winning map(s) are imbalanced and only chosen because they are innovative." "This map was only chosen because it has nice aesthetics, layout is shit." "Wtf is with the aesthetics?? The map is so ugly it isn't even playable." [edit] Congrats to the other top five maps and mapmakers! "Mappers ignore legitimate criticism they have no answer to" "Mappers argue that a certain feature is, in fact, not totally broken, for 10 posts" "Aesthetic's are attributed to personal preference as form of insult 'Well, the aesthetics, I don't like them....'" More specific: "#madebyprodiG instantly has 50 replies" "superouman makes a map that breaks people's heads and eyes, leaving a mass of bodies going 'bwuah?'" "Alabaster says something nice about a map not made by crux" <---- finish the bottle.
Man, you really like being a dick, don't you?
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Congrats to all the winners. These maps all look great.
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On May 02 2012 11:32 iGrok wrote:
Man, you really like being a dick, don't you?
Nah, just other side of the coin- alot of drinking restrictions were given to mappers, so I gave some to the critics
Edit- however, after realizing that it might have come off a bit harsh, I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I was just dicking around.
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Congrats to the winners, but after seeing all the maps that were submitted I'm beginning to really question the judges
Sorry for being negative but 2nd place map should be 1st place, and the other one's are all...
---> :S <----
again this is IMO
But there were way better quality maps running in MotM April
All of which have a lot of work put into them and deserve some play time rather than a shrug-off comment, Makes me sad
the only map that should remain in the winners is 2nd place
I call a rejudge haha
Or someone else who is nice enough to set up a separate competition or event for the real winners to display their creations
Congrats to everyone who Submitted
I'm glad I didn't submit lol
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igrok can dish it out but he cant take it? 
lol at all the drinking game quotes, esp "baskerville"
and I like monitor's opposites. 
It's really true about prodig's maps though. He puts "ESV blah blah - by prodig" as the title, and every rando and his sister comes and posts either "WOW GSL NOW" or "this is pretty good layout but it needs to be more like XNC" etc. And alabaster is the arrogant one...?? To be fair it's caught on with most of ESV now.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On May 02 2012 13:40 EatThePath wrote:igrok can dish it out but he cant take it? lol at all the drinking game quotes, esp "baskerville" and I like monitor's opposites. It's really true about prodig's maps though. He puts "ESV blah blah - by prodig" as the title, and every rando and his sister comes and posts either "WOW GSL NOW" or "this is pretty good layout but it needs to be more like XNC" etc. And alabaster is the arrogant one...?? To be fair it's caught on with most of ESV now. + Show Spoiler +
I actually meant the prodig thing as a compliment...
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On May 02 2012 13:58 DYEAlabaster wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 13:40 EatThePath wrote:igrok can dish it out but he cant take it? lol at all the drinking game quotes, esp "baskerville" and I like monitor's opposites. It's really true about prodig's maps though. He puts "ESV blah blah - by prodig" as the title, and every rando and his sister comes and posts either "WOW GSL NOW" or "this is pretty good layout but it needs to be more like XNC" etc. And alabaster is the arrogant one...?? To be fair it's caught on with most of ESV now. + Show Spoiler + I actually meant the prodig thing as a compliment...
I know, I just see the irony in everything. ^^
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Grats to all winners, well deserved. I wouldn't mind a short description of the judging of each of the winnning maps though.
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I'd still like reasons why ESV Spring didn't get in top 5 and what's wrong with the map.
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While I do not necessarily agree with some negative thoughts expressed here, I find it difficult to agree with the top five maps. I do not know if they "well deserved" the win. I cannot play these maps and hence cannot comment on what maps I would take and why(moved, new job, no Internet). Not saying the maps are bad, but some of this top5 do not look that great on first sight.
II want to ask for more transparency and argue against the attitude some people display ( do not argue against the judges, all winners are great maps, step your game up, etc.)
1. Saying congrats to the winners, well deserved - it is polite and nice, but it does not fit in the heated atmosphere here. Rather think about why people complain and let them know why map x is better and deserves e.g. fourth place . There will not be more respect for judges and mapper only because some well known map maker writes down a few nice but in the end very meaningless words.
2. I laughed about the drinking game stuff, but in the end all the funny answers on critical remarks do not help the cause of mapmaking, but in the end also make fun if this (serious) thread.
3. Posting the judges initial ratings or at least the first round total for each map would not hurt, but help many people understand the ratings a bit better. All I ask is a bit more transparency to make people feel taken serious, even without writing down a comment on every map. Maybe at least some of the judges could decide on displaying their top ten picks?
4. The more experienced mapmaker often have a good understanding of why some map made it or didn't. Mist can always ask someone as they know at least one if the judges from skype etc.
In no way I argue against the top 5. As long as I cannot play them I do not want to judge. Still top3 look like good layouts at least, have not yet looked at the other two overviews long enough ... No Internet sucks 
Anyway a more friendly tone with the judges should be a must. Even when you are critical with the whole motm thing. They do this in there free time!
I hope this comment is not read as something coming from not being in top5. Everyone wants to be there, noone wants to complain openly. But from my distanced view I feel some parts of the map making scene might be to happy with there success. An elitist attitude is never the right answer against critical remarks. Trust me I'm a doctor.
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While I disagree with couple results, I can't argue
Would like to see "honourable mentions" as in previous months. Not so much the awards crap (honestly) but certain details of certain maps that most or all the judges really really liked or disliked. This way mappers can get a feel for what works for them.
Ciao.
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I think most people's questions would can be answered by considering the new numeric system. A map (like ESV Spring for example) might not score high for any judges, and on average get passed up (barely) by a map that scores below average for three judges and very high for two other judges. Thus it gets beat out for top 5 by maps that might not seem "more top 5" than it. (Using Spring purely as a hypothetical example.)
If it mattered more, I would post an analysis of what the linear mario kart scoring system does to a pool of 30-50 submissions, but it's just MotM. If people are interested I can. Also I'd say you guys should retool the scoring system, but... it's just MotM, which right now is just a (laudable) exhibition of, by, and for the mappers. It might have been more in the past, and it may be in the future.
+ Show Spoiler +MotM founders and visionaries hero status
The best way for non-ESV and non-TPW mappers to contribute to mapping is to... KEEP MAPPING! You push the "teams" ahead even if it doesn't seem like it. And when more TL map contests roll around, you might be timetwister #2. Just because some randoms didn't pick you for talent show X doesn't mean your map wasn't good.
On that note, I would also repeat what I've said before: if the "entitled" mappers want to keep the scene invigorated, they need to seriously consider ways to incorporate freelance mappers into some sort of process that provides the opportunity to have their maps reach the highest levels. That doesn't have to be now, or next month, maybe not next year. We've barely got foreigner mapping underway -- TL map contest winners -> ladder maps and GSL. But in the future we will need to be as legitimately democratic as possible to maintain the health of the community. Eventually.
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@EatThePath: We were aware of the problem you are describing. To fix this, we actually did not just vote on the 5 maps which placed highest in the initial mario kart scoring, but also the maps that were reasonably close in points. We ended up voting on 9 maps actually.
@Dodongo: The aesthetics aren't really as bad as some of you claim. I'd argue that it is probably looking better than the average submission I've included some closeups for those who haven't seen the map ingame yet.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On May 02 2012 16:53 lefix wrote:@EatThePath: We were aware of the problem you are describing. To fix this, we actually did not just vote on the 5 maps which placed highest in the initial mario kart scoring, but also the maps that were reasonably close in points. We ended up voting on 9 maps actually. @Dodongo: The aesthetics aren't really as bad as some of you claim. I'd argue that it is probably looking better than the average submission I've included some closeups for those who haven't seen the map ingame yet. + Show Spoiler +
Okay cool. Lefix on the spot.
p.s. dodongo hottie pics
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On May 02 2012 16:53 lefix wrote:
@EatThePath: We were aware of the problem you are describing. To fix this, we actually did not just vote on the 5 maps which placed highest in the initial mario kart scoring, but also the maps that were reasonably close in points. We ended up voting on 9 maps actually.
Can we know what those 9 maps were and how they scored? + Show Spoiler +
Barrin will post feedback! I BELIEEEEEEEVE! + Show Spoiler +
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I wish Blizzard would just take the top 5 of MotM into the ladder monthly or based upon popularity vote. Ladder maps are all less interesting than these
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Wait... is the winner the monitor who organizes MotM with lefix?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KhfeE.jpg)
