EPT[A] Starbow - Page 529
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
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Izerman
Sweden99 Posts
why arent you working on Starcraft 3 ? or perhaps Warcraft 4 ? | ||
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TopRamen
United States96 Posts
On March 05 2014 20:15 decemberscalm wrote: Invented a new method of moving shot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ygrJ3VahMc&feature=youtu.be Jeeze man... Those look so much like BW Vults | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
On March 04 2014 11:07 Laertes wrote: Woah, woah there buddy, is this really going to matter THAT much? Why the emphasis on "that"? Are you suggesting that lowing the miss rate by a few percentage points requires too many man hours to be worth it? O_o I guess I am fine with it being even better in Starbow since microing units onto the high ground should be easier with the SC2 pathing, but part of me wants dat BW percentage. | ||
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HeyHoStarbow
South Africa12 Posts
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
On March 07 2014 01:15 HeyHoStarbow wrote: Can I ask why the swarm queens need the enrage ability? Sure. Several reasons: 1. It denied toss scouting too easily with always attack. 2. It gives you further simple choices which matter (attack ot boost eco, or boost etch (nurture swarm)). 3. Gives opponents an opportunity to "bait out" an enrage and get's a small advantage that way. Probably more good reasons. | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
edit: though i was under the impression that you cant chat on the free arcade accounts..does this guy actually have 3-4 real accounts? | ||
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HeyHoStarbow
South Africa12 Posts
On March 07 2014 01:31 Xiphias wrote: Sure. Several reasons: 1. It denied toss scouting too easily with always attack. 2. It gives you further simple choices which matter (attack ot boost eco, or boost etch (nurture swarm)). 3. Gives opponents an opportunity to "bait out" an enrage and get's a small advantage that way. Probably more good reasons. Im just scared that the wide open spaces between bases may increase the difficulty of defending them. That coupled with the fact that if you lose drones in STARBOW it is much harder to replace them in HOTS. Im just about finished casting a ZvsT where the terran crippled the zerg economy several times just with simple vulture run byes. If the vulture harass becomes unfair the enrage ability may have to be revisited. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On March 07 2014 02:34 HeyHoStarbow wrote: Im just scared that the wide open spaces between bases may increase the difficulty of defending them. That coupled with the fact that if you lose drones in STARBOW it is much harder to replace them in HOTS. Im just about finished casting a ZvsT where the terran crippled the zerg economy several times just with simple vulture run byes. If the vulture harass becomes unfair the enrage ability may have to be revisited. I think killing workers is a little less meaningful in Starbow than in Starcraft 2, because the economy gives you diminishing returns for each additional worker. So your first worker is the most relevant, and the worker killed by harass (the last worker) is the least relevant. On the other hand, you can kill a lot of workers with vultures, so it's hard to compare the two games. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On March 07 2014 01:31 Xiphias wrote: Sure. Several reasons: 1. It denied toss scouting too easily with always attack. 2. It gives you further simple choices which matter (attack ot boost eco, or boost etch (nurture swarm)). 3. Gives opponents an opportunity to "bait out" an enrage and get's a small advantage that way. Probably more good reasons. Have you considered turning enrage into an "increase attack damage and speed by 100% (quadrupling dps)" ability? I always thought it was so annoying to have units run into your base and not get an attack notification because the queen and drones don't auto attack (and I think you do get a notification if your queen attacks a passing vulture). And it's awkward using attack-move on queens that you have grouped in your army, for instance you might want to keep them in the main control group for nurturing swarm, but then they'd walk forward without enabling enrage. It feels clumsy to me. Because I feel that the queen is your main unit as zerg, pretty much. If you don't enjoy using queens you probably shouldn't play zerg, so I think it's important to make them feel really polished. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On March 07 2014 03:56 Xiphias wrote: No good reasoning here but I really like the idea that queens do not auto-attack. Just feels so "right" atm. The maternal protective instinct getting triggered whenever her baby drones are in danger? Seems a bit sexist to imply women are only dangerous when that's triggered.  | ||
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
Actually, we believe the current way Queens function into the quick 3hatch metagame isn't working optimally as Queen's actually have to much energy to constantly Enrage, which makes alot of aggressive terran and zerg openings unviable. When the Queen was designed, we had thought 2 hatch + 2 queens would be a lot more common (as that is comparable to a BW 3hatch build), however for various reasons, it didn't turt out that way. Thus, we are considering tweaks to it. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On March 07 2014 04:32 Hider wrote: Queen with auto-attack would be way OP against early game harass. Remember, in BW zerg had no unit that provided larva (efficiently) and could deflect harass at the same time. Actually, we believe the current way Queens function into the quick 3hatch metagame isn't working optimally as Queen's actually have too much energy to constantly Enrage, which makes alot of aggressive terran and zerg openings unviable. When the Queen was designed, we had thought 2 hatch + 2 queens would be a lot more common (as that is comparable to a BW 3hatch build), however for various reasons, it didn't turt out that way. Thus, we are considering tweaks to it. Well, not an incredibly powerful auto-attack, but what about the version I mentioned which is only 25% of the dps of an enraged queen? If necessary, you could even slightly reduce the power of an enraged queen to off-set the free normal attack. Which would also help vs the queen being too powerful defensively. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On March 07 2014 03:17 Grumbels wrote: Have you considered turning enrage into an "increase attack damage and speed by 100% (quadrupling dps)" ability? I always thought it was so annoying to have units run into your base and not get an attack notification because the queen and drones don't auto attack (and I think you do get a notification if your queen attacks a passing vulture). And it's awkward using attack-move on queens that you have grouped in your army, for instance you might want to keep them in the main control group for nurturing swarm, but then they'd walk forward without enabling enrage. It feels clumsy to me. Because I feel that the queen is your main unit as zerg, pretty much. If you don't enjoy using queens you probably shouldn't play zerg, so I think it's important to make them feel really polished. Yeah, though I see Xiphias point. There is good reasons to not have the queen autoattack at all: - denies slowerlord scouting too heavily (currently you need 2enrage to kill an overlord) - probably too strong vs early reaper play (with the reaper in the current form) - quite strong against any form of early scouting But it's true, queens feel very weird gameplaywise (just a list of obstructions; I don't want to argue they all have to go, but I want to point out that the amount of special rules and obstructions for the queen make it feel so clumsy): - can only have one per hatch (and the hatch has to be finished, so you have to wait until the hatch has finished to start a queen), which is a very unintuitive rule since the queen that you get is a "normal unit" (so nothing that is bound to the hatchery). - energy costs on it seem to be weirdly calculated (you often have so much excess energy; even if you boost your tech all the time, you can kind of get away with it while getting some injects off) - perfect injects are extremely hard and time consuming (because of the low energy/low time relation) - and feel very unnecessary in the midgame with only 3stored larva possible. - injects can be placed upon injected hatcheries - creep tumor spell has a cooldown that prevents you from putting down multiple tumors fast (which is a weird way to balance it imo; since with multiple queens you can still creep a lot, but it's very hard to replenish creep later on; also technically it's just a little weird for a SC2 player, and rather a prevention of good play (=big creep spread), than emphasizing skill) - nurturing swarm still has SC2's spam-prevention (not sure what it is; a minicooldown, or some animation), which prevents "normal" heal-spam "hotkey+click and repeat", while you can still heal fast with shift-queuing the same thing. So balancewise it does nothing of importance, but it is clumsy gameplaywise. - it is the only unit in BW, SC2 and Starbow with 4abilities - 15energy abilities feel a little weird. Not that I think they should go, but I don't quite see why they have to be implemented in the particular cases. Creep is powerful and 25energy are OK for a tumor, 50 if you geet rid of the cooldown imo. - enrage in the mid-lategame is (rightfully) weak, yet it just feels wrong to enrage a queen when it makes no difference. Maybe make it an upgrade that removes the need to enrage, or just give queens a normal attack on lair/hive? One more thing that I would like to adress (since I use grid): It would be nice to have abilities that are in SC2 on the same positions as they are in the SC2 UI. of the top of my head (only Zerg things) Viper - swap ensnare with consume hatchery - swap burrow upgrade with tunneling claws upgrade lair - in the train menu, the second row should be (from left to right): roach, mutalisk, scourge, viper Defiler (though not in SC2, just to have the same consume-setup with the Viper again if the Viper is changed) - put consume to the left | ||
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tehredbanditt
103 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On March 07 2014 10:36 tehredbanditt wrote: The viking is invulnerable when taking off and landing. Is this intentional? So are lurkers and spidermines Iam guessing its unintentional. Hope its fixable | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On March 07 2014 17:47 Grumbels wrote: vikings being invulnerable when landing allows it to dodge sttscks, like banshees activating cloak So you like this? | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
dunno, I thought it was cool since it promotes changing state with your vikings, which is tactically interesting | ||
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