EPT[A] Starbow - Page 509
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naowin
Sweden5 Posts
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Jetaap
France4814 Posts
On January 15 2014 23:51 bhfberserk wrote: I am really curious what the pros think of Starbow. Is Starbow > SC?? Is Starbow = BW2?? Starbow is nowhere close the balance of broodwar, and it shouldn't be compared to it, it's just a great community mod that is fun to play | ||
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Ahli
Germany355 Posts
I hope the players won't QQ when they read what was/is bugged and fixed tomorrow then. ^^ | ||
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Code
Canada634 Posts
Reasons: - defenders advantage..zerg has many melee/low range units and this helps them set up flanks and defend better vs drops - map vision isnt enough..in SB you are more active with your army, there are no xelnaga towers, you need to get map control. Why waste time creep spreading if youre using your army? Lings, burrowed units on map, ovies spotting routes, what is the point of creep? - creep gives regen idea...boring.You run away and heal up on it? We want more fights/aggression. Why do i want to regen 20 hp on my zerglings when they die in 2 seconds. Nurture transfuse those ultras bro dont click them onto creep to heal. - more fights over creep spread..T and P will want to deny it more if it is stronger - lots of detection destroys creep easy..T has vessels and P has obs to combat lurkers. Why spread a bunch of creep for it to do nothing and then die in 3 seconds? you get to spot his army? You should be active with yours anyway - it does not promote "turtling" ..if i sit on 3 bases with glorious creep spread and you just take 4 or 5 bases i cant just get broodlord/infestor and beat you..i will starve out and lose - it does more to seperate good players .. why prioritize creep spread if its not powerful? why waste queen energy? focus on other things since it doesnt make much of a difference There are lots of ways to balance this...creep doesnt have to give banelings rocket boosters. Make it a small speed buff, or make the creep radius smaller so its spread is not as fast, make it more energy to drop a tumor, etc TLDR: creep sucks | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On January 16 2014 01:27 Code wrote: + Show Spoiler + I think creep spread should grant Zerg the speed boost. Reasons: - defenders advantage..zerg has many melee/low range units and this helps them set up flanks and defend better vs drops - map vision isnt enough..in SB you are more active with your army, there are no xelnaga towers, you need to get map control. Why waste time creep spreading if youre using your army? Lings, burrowed units on map, ovies spotting routes, what is the point of creep? - creep gives regen idea...boring.You run away and heal up on it? We want more fights/aggression. Why do i want to regen 20 hp on my zerglings when they die in 2 seconds. Nurture transfuse those ultras bro dont click them onto creep to heal. - more fights over creep spread..T and P will want to deny it more if it is stronger - lots of detection destroys creep easy..T has vessels and P has obs to combat lurkers. Why spread a bunch of creep for it to do nothing and then die in 3 seconds? you get to spot his army? You should be active with yours anyway - it does not promote "turtling" ..if i sit on 3 bases with glorious creep spread and you just take 4 or 5 bases i cant just get broodlord/infestor and beat you..i will starve out and lose - it does more to seperate good players .. why prioritize creep spread if its not powerful? why waste queen energy? focus on other things since it doesnt make much of a difference There are lots of ways to balance this...creep doesnt have to give banelings rocket boosters. Make it a small speed buff, or make the creep radius smaller so its spread is not as fast, make it more energy to drop a tumor, etc TLDR: creep sucks Would you agree that creep is too powerful in Starcraft 2 though? | ||
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Zaphod Beeblebrox
Denmark697 Posts
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Code
Canada634 Posts
On January 16 2014 01:37 Grumbels wrote: Would you agree that creep is too powerful in Starcraft 2 though? Its definitely very strong.. and Zerg basically rely on it to survive also. I dont want that to be the case. I think if it was implemented the exact same way in SB as it is in Sc2 it would be overpowered. "Design-wise" i like the idea of Zerg spreading creep. I feel like the Zerg player should be rewarded more for having good creep spread. It shouldn't be something that is relied on for defense or something too powerful to discourage attacks onto it..maybe there is a middle-ground somewhere. | ||
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Doominator10
United States515 Posts
 Just saying. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On January 16 2014 02:03 Doominator10 wrote: I still think that letting lairs hold 4 and hives 5 larva would be a cool change Just saying.The question would be whether they should get increased larva spawn rate as well. I don't know myself, I think getting free production upgrades when building tech buildings is probably dubious. | ||
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fierywinds
22 Posts
On January 15 2014 23:11 decemberscalm wrote: We wanted to see the baeling in a more ambush or flanking roll. Charging headlong into a fight is what we want to see the lurker for. The baneling itself is a pretty cool unit, but when used for direct engagements it can lead to really short almost instantly over fights without the turbo charged eco of SC2. The lurker however can be quit a bit trickier and lead to much more prolonged head on fights. However, don't underestimate the baneling ambushes or big zerg flanks in the middle of the map supplemented by banelings. Baneling mines, banelings bombs from ovies. That sorta thing. Additionally, they do some pretty cool stuff zvz. Hmm but ambushes are weakened in starbow too, because terran will always have science vessels in their army to counter lurkers. If they were to be used for flanks shouldn't their speed be increased and maybe damage lowered to be in line with the ethos of slower longer battles in starbow? I don't know but I'm sure you guys will balance it all out in the end | ||
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Fishgle
United States2174 Posts
Also the old viper locust thing with neural parasite is still in the hotkeys menu. | ||
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Ahli
Germany355 Posts
On January 16 2014 03:02 Fishgle wrote: Lurker's unburrow can't be changed in the hotkeys menu? Right now burrow is R, unburrow is E, but for every other unit it's Burrow R and unburrow R. i think it's missing a second command card. Also the old viper locust thing with neural parasite is still in the hotkeys menu. The version that will go live tomorrow allows me to alter that hotkey. I've just added the missing units. The hotkey setup window should be accurate and working with the next update, tomorrow. | ||
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Prime Directive
United States186 Posts
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Beef Noodles
United States937 Posts
On January 16 2014 01:45 Code wrote: Its definitely very strong.. and Zerg basically rely on it to survive also. I dont want that to be the case. I think if it was implemented the exact same way in SB as it is in Sc2 it would be overpowered. "Design-wise" i like the idea of Zerg spreading creep. I feel like the Zerg player should be rewarded more for having good creep spread. It shouldn't be something that is relied on for defense or something too powerful to discourage attacks onto it..maybe there is a middle-ground somewhere. That is exactly why it shouldn't be added -- Zergs have to rely on it. It makes the game boring as Zerg has to fight 99% of big battles on creep. Starbow is about having fights all over the map. It's much better to keep creep weak, but buff other aspects of the zerg until balance is achieved. Also, speed boost on creep ruins a lot of other things like scv scouting, etc. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On January 16 2014 04:14 Beef Noodles wrote: That is exactly why it shouldn't be added -- Zergs have to rely on it. It makes the game boring as Zerg has to fight 99% of big battles on creep. Starbow is about having fights all over the map. It's much better to keep creep weak, but buff other aspects of the zerg until balance is achieved. Also, speed boost on creep ruins a lot of other things like scv scouting, etc. There are reapers in the game though, if scv's have too much difficulty scouting. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
It seems like there are a TON of things that exist in this game (medic + dropship instead of Medivac, for example) that are only there because "BW did it!". I like the idea of making more engagements and encouraging more expansions, I just wish Starbow wasn't SC2:BW. | ||
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SolidSMD
Belgium408 Posts
Corsair > pheonix big time for balance in air pvz, this means pheonix is out. For voidray, it's one of the most hated units of sc2. Please do not assume that starbow just has some stuff because BW did it, the starbowthread is 500 pages long of balance and design discussions. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On January 16 2014 05:23 SolidSMD wrote: ^medics allow for early bio pushes, medivacs come into play way too late. Corsair > pheonix big time for balance in air pvz, this means pheonix is out. For voidray, it's one of the most hated units of sc2. Why is the Corsair better than the Phoenix in PvZ? I'm new to Starbow. | ||
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SolidSMD
Belgium408 Posts
On January 16 2014 05:27 Crownlol wrote: Why is the Corsair better than the Phoenix in PvZ? I'm new to Starbow. Pheonix is useless vs muta in low numbers, so if you want to fight muta with pheonixes you need to commit a ton. Corsair can be pumped out reactively and help a ton. Also pheonix would just own up scourge too bad. All in all the corsair makes airbalance a lot better, more room for micro etc. I'm sure there are other people that can explain it a ton better than me. | ||
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
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