i don't think you can compare HT vs Ghost to defilers. in the former there is good micro/reaction timing required on both sides, with defilers you just go for the dark swarm and hope it doesn't die since it has to get so close to cast and then wait for like 2-3 seconds. there is no mystic "skill" to use it.

to what you said about running lings in, I tried it in the unit tester and with 3 tanks you can waste a shot with lings, run a defiler in to cast a swarm on the tanks and it still gets sniped before the swarm can be cast.

I agree range is 8-9 is too much, but I think the cast delay should be gone. perhaps it's fine tanks can kill them with good reaction timing, but for bio to have such an easy time sniping them is a problem imo

Hider

Denmark9407 Posts

January 11 2014 14:53 GMT

#9942

On January 11 2014 23:46 TBone- wrote:
Just tried a map against the ai for the first time. This mod feels really smooth and I'm liking it a lot more than sc2. Are there any peak hours where I can find people to play in NA?

I think most ppl play at EU. It has first recently been uploaded to NA.

Hider

Denmark9407 Posts

January 11 2014 14:55 GMT

#9943

On January 11 2014 23:53 Ovni wrote:
i don't think you can compare HT vs Ghost to defilers. in the former there is good micro/reaction timing required on both sides, with defilers you just go for the dark swarm and hope it doesn't die since it has to get so close to cast and then wait for like 2-3 seconds. there is no mystic "skill" to use it.

to what you said about running lings in, I tried it in the unit tester and with 3 tanks you can waste a shot with lings, run defiler into to cast a swarm on the tanks and it still gets sniped before the swarm can be cast.

I agree range is 8-9 is too much, but I think the cast delay should be gone. maybe it's fine tanks can kill them with good reaction timing, but for bio to have such an easy time sniping them is a problem imo

Well, the problem then probably is the "stand still" thing. I really dislike that type of mechanic as I feel it take the smoothness out of the game. But yeh I agree that the combo of stand-still and low range is problematic, but as I said I prefer low range and instant cast rather than vice versa.

Xiphias

Norway2223 Posts

January 11 2014 14:57 GMT

#9944

I'm not saying it should have 9 range, but maybe 7? 5 feels so incredibly short. From 9 to 5 AND shorter duration AND smaller cloud. So many nerfs from BW to Starbow compared to other units. HT is basically the same for comparison.

purakushi

United States3301 Posts

January 11 2014 15:02 GMT

#9945

Checked in the Starbow Unit Tester:

- Possibly consider making the observer's evade skill animation bigger (2x or so). It is pretty hard to notice. People will really need to depend on the duration bar, more than anything.
- Dropships do not show what units are inside. They also do not have the white capacity bars. Same thing for warpprisms.
- If a unit that is being targeted by a spider mine missile is picked up and then unloaded after the missile detonates, that unit still has the target marker on it for some period (unless it stays in the i.e. dropship for a bit longer).
- Would be cool if the target markers (reaver/spider mine missile/etc) could be the player's colour.
- Dropships have weird selection boxes. I was able to select it by clicking on the location described by the red circled X: http://i.imgur.com/YhtErYe.jpg Seems to be only the bottom left side.
- Thoughts on making the high templar have casting time or at least a deceleration time before being able to cast spells? It is instant right now. Could be used as an indirect, skill-based nerf, if necessary.

Also, is leaving on the "push A and cursor pulses" thing intentional? When you push A with a unit that can attack, the mouse cursor does a crosshair circular pulse thing as if you clicked there. Not a big deal; it just takes a bit to get used to, as it was distracting at first. Removing it should just be a matter of rearranging the dependencies (the single player one).

mortales

174 Posts

January 11 2014 15:40 GMT

#9946

Just watched the game played by Ryung and Impact! It looked so awesome. I got bored by original sc2, but looking at this mod I realize that it's not the game mechanics is bad or the entire game is broken... I'd like if Blizzard took some ideas from this mod for LotV T_T
GJ and thanks to the developers!

thezanursic

5497 Posts

January 11 2014 15:52 GMT

#9947

Spells need better visibility, better animation. Swarms for instance are barely visable.

Also better models for the defiler would be awesome to.

thezanursic

5497 Posts

January 11 2014 15:54 GMT

#9948

Double post

SolidSMD

Belgium408 Posts

January 11 2014 15:58 GMT

#9949

@hider
Getting a storm of is much bigger than getting a swarm off, zerg depends on swarm to be able to fights bio balls, bio balls can just move out of the swarm and take relatively few damage, if a storm hits it is already huge vs bio. Bio is quicker than defilers, so you can actually run away and spread out without being continuously swarmed.
I know you fear for problems in regard of mech, but dark swarm really important for a zerg when fighting vs bioballs, making it good is great to discourage biodeathballs.
I think it was clear in this game that ryung had it 'easy', no spectacular plays and coming back easily from a 70ish supply difference. No drops at all, while impact was attacking everywhere. I really don't think range 7 swarm will be that big a deal for terran.

Fishgle

United States2174 Posts

January 11 2014 16:07 GMT

#9950

Can we make Dark Swarm a bit more opaque? It was basically invisible on Texas. The animation for plague was extremely hard to spot as well.

Also, I agree with Foxxan here; we shouldn't react too fast and make a bunch of changes. Let's playtest more. How many people play Zerg at a high level in Starbow? Zero. Let's get some more data before doing anything drastic.

Xiphias

Norway2223 Posts

January 11 2014 16:16 GMT

#9951

On January 12 2014 01:07 Fishgle wrote:
Can we make Dark Swarm a bit more opaque? It was basically invisible on Texas. The animation for plague was extremely hard to spot as well.

Xia is on it.

purakushi

United States3301 Posts

January 11 2014 16:57 GMT

#9952

Some people are going to the group channel, while most others are going to the chat channel. We need a better way to tell people that they should go to the Starbow chat channel. I've just been trying to periodically tell people who are in the group channel. Seems like the "News" is not enough; people don't check that.

Also: I think the idle separation interrupts SCV repair.

ganil

253 Posts

January 11 2014 17:42 GMT

#9953

I played a few tvp and tanks seems really strong.
Do they really do 70 flat damages ?

Xiphias

Norway2223 Posts

January 11 2014 18:00 GMT

#9954

On January 12 2014 02:42 ganil wrote:
I played a few tvp and tanks seems really strong.
Do they really do 70 flat damages ?

Not really. All units in Starbow has a dmg type. None of which does 100% damage to all armor types (I think). Tanks do 70 dmg to armored but less to normal and light. But tanks are very powerful in Starbow. Protoss should almost never attack into a
sieged position, especially with only dragoons or stalkers unless the toss army is much larger than terran.

You should rather abuse the immobility of terran mech to attack where the tanks are not, and use speedlots/drop/corsairs/arbiters/sentinels to help the engagement.

awwnuts07

United States621 Posts

January 11 2014 18:04 GMT

#9955

DOOD! I'm so late to the party. Just saw that VOD of TB casting Ryung and Impact. Gotta say, gonna try this right away. I didn't play BW, but this looks infinitely more fun to play than HoTS.

ganil

253 Posts

January 11 2014 18:05 GMT

#9956

I play terran :o.
Great mod.

Hider

Denmark9407 Posts

January 11 2014 18:09 GMT

#9957

On January 12 2014 02:42 ganil wrote:
I played a few tvp and tanks seems really strong.
Do they really do 70 flat damages ?

DPS is roughly the same as in HOTS actually due to lower attack speed. Its Vultures primarily that make mech stronger.

Xiphias

Norway2223 Posts

January 11 2014 18:53 GMT

#9958

Stream is up:

http://www.twitch.tv/sc2_starbow

Hider

Denmark9407 Posts

January 11 2014 19:02 GMT

#9959

Idea for Maurauder:

Ok so let's say we nerf its HP from 125 to 110-115 as it might be a tad too strong early game. Now, we also want to make it good vs Reavers right. Previously there was a suggestion of the Reaver not dealing splash to armored units. That's a bit unintuitvei though and maybe hard to implement in Editor.

So I wonder, what about just giving Maurauder a "hardened shield" upgrade? Make it take a maximum damage of 50-60 (roughly)? Besides making it much better vs Reavers, it will also help vs Mech where bio isn't that strong.

Then Reaver will be:
- Pretty good vs Marines
- Mediocore vs Maurauders

Overall, you do not have to rush for Reavers vs a maurauder opening, but getting them eventally vs a mix of bio is a pretty good idea.

Foxxan

Sweden3427 Posts

January 11 2014 19:11 GMT

#9960

Marauders are already good versus reavers.
I also said, we could playtest more.

If something is to be done with the reaver, it is to remove his dmg upgrade(he didnt even have one of those in bw)
edit: He didnt have a increase in radius in bw(only extra dmg)