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[A] Starbow - Page 500
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
www.twitch.tv/crank | ||
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OsirisSC2
United States19 Posts
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Beef Noodles
United States937 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Normal opening, with both players going one base expand. Crank pokes up Innovation's ramp with 4 dragoons, almost killing a siege tank (1 hit away), but he loses a dragoon. Innovation follows up with a vulture run by at Crank's 3rd, but there were no probes there yet. Crank follows up with a reaver drop in the main that does no damage, but Crank circles around to the natural and kills at least 12 scv's with two AMAZING scarabs. In an effort to recover from the lost scv's Innovation plays turtley terran, pushing out ~10 tanks to his third. Crank attacks the third with a force of dragoons, a few zealots, and his warp prism reaver. Crank loses the reaver early, but the dragoons pushed in killing a couple of tanks. With tank reinforcements sieging up on the low ground, Crank has to pull his dragoon line back. Then I clicked away for a second, and when I clicked back the game was over. Apparently Crank's second reaver killed 100 scvs with an epic scarab and innovation immediately gg'd. Up next Crank vs MMA | ||
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Doominator10
United States515 Posts
On January 12 2014 10:22 Beef Noodles wrote: Crank vs Innovation + Show Spoiler + Normal opening, with both players going one base expand. Crank pokes up Innovation's ramp with 4 dragoons, almost killing a siege tank (1 hit away), but he loses a dragoon. Innovation follows up with a vulture run by at Crank's 3rd, but there were no probes there yet. Crank follows up with a reaver drop in the main that does no damage, but Crank circles around to the natural and kills at least 12 scv's with two AMAZING scarabs. In an effort to recover from the lost scv's Innovation plays turtley terran, pushing out ~10 tanks to his third. Crank attacks the third with a force of dragoons, a few zealots, and his warp prism reaver. Crank loses the reaver early, but the dragoons pushed in killing a couple of tanks. With tank reinforcements sieging up on the low ground, Crank has to pull his dragoon line back. Then I clicked away for a second, and when I clicked back the game was over. Apparently Crank's second reaver killed 100 scvs with an epic scarab and innovation immediately gg'd. Up next Crank vs MMA Innovation: "imba gg" MMA: "pfft, I can do better" http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1uzxz1/innovation_vs_crank_in_starbow_right_now/ | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On January 12 2014 10:41 Doominator10 wrote: Innovation: "imba gg" MMA: "pfft, I can do better" http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1uzxz1/innovation_vs_crank_in_starbow_right_now/ + Show Spoiler + and he did!  | ||
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Hider
Denmark9421 Posts
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
At least its at the top of the starcraft reddit :D http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
On January 12 2014 10:50 Hider wrote: Clearly, Innovation was the weakest of us (roughly) similarly skilled terran players getting matched up against Crank. Yeah, you´re slightly better than Innovation | ||
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Doominator10
United States515 Posts
On January 12 2014 11:23 mderg wrote: Yeah, you´re slightly better than Innovation Obviously someone thinks he deserves a cookie *Kappa* User was warned for this post | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
I will now work on the wiki, fixing things for the next patch etc | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On January 12 2014 11:21 Chaggi wrote: MMA vs Impact was fun to see how bad SC2 bio strats is in Starbow Well Ryung did a much better job vs the same build in their previous game by being more careful vs Lurkers, not attacking into chokes and using a lot of science vessels with earlier irradiate. He won that game convincingly. | ||
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lightning_ferret
United States3 Posts
I saw some hype forthcoming from Reddit, but wow. It has been quite awhile since I've heard about your mod. I am thoroughly impressed by the work your team has produced, and I wanted to just congratulate you. Absolutely brilliant so far, and I hope to see it get picked up into something big. That would be pretty cool, I think. Hope to see you around! | ||
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
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lightning_ferret
United States3 Posts
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Kabel
Sweden1746 Posts
I prefer to not rush too many balance changes now. The game is very young, and for the first time it is being played by more than the ca 10 regular players. But ofc, we can not be too passive either. Maybe something like this, based on the feedback so far: (Only contains very minor changes) Ultralisk - Starting armor 2 (instead of 1). - Mainly better vs Marines. Encourages more Marauders & Banshees in the mix or tech switch to mech = less Marines = more room for Z to use other units vs that (Zerglings, Hydras, Mutas etc) = more dynamic gameplay and micro fights? (As long as units are not hard counters) Small effect on Dragoons, Archons, Reavers, DT vs Ultras. (Relevant vs Zealots though.. but P has Warp in on Zealots as a huge late game bonus anyway?) Firebat - Life reduced from 100 to 80 - Armor changed from Armored to Medium. (Almost maintains same relationship vs Dragoon & Hydra) - Indirectly makes Banelings a bit better vs them. (Takes 5 Banelings to kill one, instead of 6) - Indirectly makes Ultras better vs them too. (5 hits to kill one instead of 6) (Keep in mind T has Matrix on Medics) Reaper - Changed from Light to Medium. - Makes Hydra and Dragoons better vs them. (Good for Z defence vs them. Unfortunately makes them worse in TvP, but they are bad anyways) - Makes Vultures worse vs them (Atm Vultures hard-counters them insanely well. Leads to more Reaper openings?) Queen - Remove 1-limit per Hatchery (Possible to get extra Queens for defence. Might be an annoying feature anyway?) Is it worth getting an extra Queen for Reaper defence? Maybe if the spare energy is worthwile to use on Creep tumors or Nurturing Swarm for faster tech? (So its not a completely worthless investment) Will this be enough to "solve" the potential Reaper vs Zerg early game problem? December sent me a suggestion that Reaper damage shall be nerfed to 5 vs all. (A reduction of over 50% vs light) I fear that will make them almost useless. It will take 10.6 seconds for 1 Reaper to kill 1 worker. (T must commit to more Reapers to actually deal damage. The Wraith syndrome?) But ofc maybe some kind of dps-reduction, speed reduction, or micro solution, can be done, to make early game more fair. I do however prefer to keep the Reaper in the game, since I think it adds early game excitement. Or we can let it be for some more time? Design related issues: Corsair with Graviton beam + Show Spoiler + - Unfortunately I did not get time to do a potential "rework" of Protoss air. I will let most of it remain as it is. In necessary in the future, after a lot more playtesting, things might need to be adjusted. The most crucial thing atm is the Graviton beam ability on Corsairs. It is in a weird state now, and has remained like that for 4-6 weeks. Here is what it does: Lift target unit. That unit can not attack, move or be attacked. If that unit is light, it receives 4 dmg per second. Lasts 12 seconds. (Enough to kill workers) The Scout can research an upgrade at Fleet Beacon which allows them to attack lifted units. Three easy options: 1) Let it remain as it is 2) Let Graviton beam not deal any damage to anything. (Stuff lifted are invulnerable.) Scout upgrade still can work? 3) Just remove it. Then add a new ability to the Corsair in the future, if needed for any reasons Nerve Jammer + Show Spoiler + I am not super fond of this ability. It was added a long time ago in Starbow when the game was at a different state. But now its too late to just swap it for something else. Lets do the best of the situation. Here is what it currently does: - Reduce the attack damage of all non-burrowed ground units inside an area, during 15 seconds. Eearlier, when Nerve Jammer prevented attacks, it was broken and boring vs Lurkers. And it will probably still be broken and boring. But this rule is just kinda strange. People use them on Lurkers all the time because its so natural to do. And yet it has no effect. An easy solution: - Burrowed units attack damage are reduced by 25%. The tooltip can read something like this: Launches a Nerve Jammer at the targeted location. The attack damage of all ground units within that are is reduced by 75%. The attack damage of burrowed ground units is reduced by only 25%. Lasts 15 seconds. Its a bit rough, but its not super much information at least. (In reality, this only affects Lurkers, burrowed Banelings and maybe Spider mines?) Its still possible to punish Lurkers who clump up super-tightly, and it can help to support bio-armies. But its not so good so T can just A-move with Marines into them. Zerg can however target fire the Nerve Jammer to cancel the effect, if he pays attention. Or just reposition his Lurkers. Cast delay on spells + Show Spoiler + This was added a few months ago. I wanted to try out how it affected spell casting. I don´t think it adds any significant micro advantage, compared to the frustration it creates. So I will remove it. (Its only on 2-3 spells atm) Dark Swarm + Show Spoiler + I am concerned how this spell works with smart cast within the SC2 engine, especially if it has normal values. It required quite a lot of micro & unit management to Consume and Dark swarm at good locations in BW. Here its much easier? I prefer to see more games with it before I change it in any direction. | ||
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LaLuSh
Sweden2358 Posts
+1 remove cast delays. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
- Starting armor 2 (instead of 1). - Mainly better vs Marines. Encourages more Marauders in the mix or tech switch to mech. Ok? Reason for this? Marines are alraedy bad vs ultralisk This change do nothing overall. Marauders are insane versus ultralisks. @Firebat - Indirectly makes Banelings a bit better vs them. (Takes 5 Banelings to kill one, instead of 6) Ok. Reason for this again? Banelings already rape marines/medics so bad its not even funny. The best option for terran is to add firebats/marauders. With firebats gone, lets say they are bad against banelings now to. Only marauders left, that will become problemsome for real(It alraedy is troublesome). Lets say in theory it works well to add in tons of firebats/marauders into huge banelings. There are still many potnetial problems with that: 1) Terran cant know for sure, if zerg will add in banelings or not. The option to morph Lings>banelings is always there, and since its pretty normal to go melee upgrades it is no single drawback here for zerg to add those banelings. 2) So terran cant know for sure, if he is gonna add tons of firebats/marauders. 3) Lets say he add these units, and yes zerg went for many banelings. Now the marines count will be so low so hydraswitch will be insane here->versus marauders/firebats. And low marine count->weak to mutas 4) Transition into vultures works, but same problem there->techswitch, and no upgrades. 5) I have tried tanks. It doesnt work well atm. Heavy tank play->very weak to hive: Defiler, guardians. Since hydras/lings/banelings will crush terran. The games ive played against zerg for now, is they make banlings and comes ahead of every fight with just amoving. Boring gameplay imo, and imba to. @Baneling Okay, the thing here is->its much stronger in starbow than in sc2: Medics are much slower than speedbanelings->huge problem. Marines have less health->not that huge problem, but still something I also believe the banelings are faster in their unitrelationship versus marines offcreep? Zerglings are way better here than in sc2. No widowmines. My impressions so far against every zerg(i have played around 7zergs now). They make banelings, and it becomes very hard for terran to engange. To micro in battles. And it seems the zerg just amoves and gets ahead every fight. Note, i have tried to mix in heavy marauders/firebats, it seems zerg gets ahead anyway sometimes->but i need more testing. But dont forget, marauders suck versus hydras/lings And firebats suck versus everything other than lings @Roach Can you look into this unit now? Its almost impossible to micro against it. And he also still have his invulnerable ... Again i need more true testing, more optimal play of course. EVERYOne needs that though, but there is a huuuge difference from terran perspective when zerg goes lurkers instead of banelings both in funness, and power for terran | ||
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Fishgle
United States2174 Posts
Relax.  + Show Spoiler + That being said, I think you should remove the Graviton upgrade. It doesn't make much sense. edit- also, i agree with what foxxan said. We should do more testing. | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
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