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[A] Starbow - Page 204

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
February 02 2013 18:18 GMT
#4061
+1 on mutas and corsairs.

I will be streaming today at:
http://www.twitch.tv/kanban85

Testing if there is less lag now that I've clocked the CPU
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
vrumFondel
Profile Joined November 2012
Russian Federation42 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-02 19:43:06
February 02 2013 19:23 GMT
#4062
http://www.twitch.tv/jackodiamonds - stream here russian language and english maybe
Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1746 Posts
February 02 2013 19:30 GMT
#4063
Seems like twitch.tv is not working?

Watch here instead http://goodgame.ru/channel/vrumFondel2/9/
Creator of Starbow
Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1746 Posts
February 02 2013 22:31 GMT
#4064
Replays from today:

2v2 http://drop.sc/301638
PvP http://drop.sc/301639
TvZ http://drop.sc/301640
TvZ http://drop.sc/301641

Seems like the replay info got messed up. Not sure if these are the correct replays or no not :s
Creator of Starbow
SmileZerg
Profile Joined March 2012
United States543 Posts
February 02 2013 23:13 GMT
#4065
On February 03 2013 02:10 Kabel wrote:
>>> New patch up on EU <<<

Bug fixes and aesthetically improvements. (Thanks XiA!)


Only a few balance changes:

Hydralisk 90 HP instead of 100.

Mutalisks and Corsairs no longer considered "light." (This makes Stalkers slightly better vs them)

Scourge & Corsair movement speed increased slightly. (They have the same speed value) Corsairs in small numbers can now fight better vs mutalisks, due to the small speed boost. Shoot, back away, shoot, back away )

Rift costs 50 energy and has 60 seconds cooldown. (Earlier it was free to cast but had a 120 second cooldown)

I like all of these. I'll be a little sad for the weaker Hydra's but 100 HP feels too bulky for them - I think 90 just about nails it.

On other notes:
Still pushing for Burrow tech to be dropped to Hatch for 100/100 with an additional 100/100 Tunneling Claws research at Lair tech. Also can we look at maybe incorporating a faster regenerate mechanic for Zerg flyers, since they can't use creep? Way back I had suggested that Overlords give a passive regen bonus to other Zerg air units within close range to them (since they also have a creep spread ability for ground units, the symmetry makes sense to me). But Blizzard has gone and added a straight permanent regen bonus for mutalisks in HotS, we could possibly just use that instead.
"Show me your teeth."
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
February 03 2013 01:46 GMT
#4066
On February 03 2013 08:13 SmileZerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2013 02:10 Kabel wrote:
>>> New patch up on EU <<<

Bug fixes and aesthetically improvements. (Thanks XiA!)


Only a few balance changes:

Hydralisk 90 HP instead of 100.

Mutalisks and Corsairs no longer considered "light." (This makes Stalkers slightly better vs them)

Scourge & Corsair movement speed increased slightly. (They have the same speed value) Corsairs in small numbers can now fight better vs mutalisks, due to the small speed boost. Shoot, back away, shoot, back away )

Rift costs 50 energy and has 60 seconds cooldown. (Earlier it was free to cast but had a 120 second cooldown)

I like all of these. I'll be a little sad for the weaker Hydra's but 100 HP feels too bulky for them - I think 90 just about nails it.

On other notes:
Still pushing for Burrow tech to be dropped to Hatch for 100/100 with an additional 100/100 Tunneling Claws research at Lair tech. Also can we look at maybe incorporating a faster regenerate mechanic for Zerg flyers, since they can't use creep? Way back I had suggested that Overlords give a passive regen bonus to other Zerg air units within close range to them (since they also have a creep spread ability for ground units, the symmetry makes sense to me). But Blizzard has gone and added a straight permanent regen bonus for mutalisks in HotS, we could possibly just use that instead.


I think 20% damage increase for ground is quite strong and mutas are quite potent already. There isno immidiate need to push Z units right now.

The only semi concern I have right now is stalker zealot combos in the absence of roaches/marauders/hellions. Especially for Terran, I'm not sure if "only" 2supply tanks are needed, while low to medium amounts of them still feel like they cant really threaten a gateway heavy protoss.
SmileZerg
Profile Joined March 2012
United States543 Posts
February 03 2013 04:56 GMT
#4067
Firebats and Spidermines seem like they should be able to deal with Gateway compositions. How viable is it to mix Bats in with Mech play as T?
"Show me your teeth."
Fuchsteufelswild
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2028 Posts
February 03 2013 05:41 GMT
#4068
^ Well vultures have had their range reduced from 5 to 4. I wonder if reverting that would help enough versus the zealots to make mech feel stronger vs protoss? Regardless, Spider Mines are meant to play a big part against the gateway units, not just the tanks.
Previously (patches ago) I felt most sure that Zerg was the strongest and wasn't as sure about the other two but thought terran might have been weakest.
Right now I feel terran is the weakest but the order of the other two is not as certain.
ZerO - FantaSy - Calm - Nal_rA - Jaedong - NaDa - EffOrt - Bisu - by.hero - StarDust - Welmu - Nerchio - Supernova - Solar - Squirtle - LosirA - Grubby - IntoTheRainbow - Golden... ~~~ Incredible Miracle and Woongjin Stars 화이팅!
Chronopolis
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1484 Posts
February 03 2013 06:46 GMT
#4069
I feel like nerve jammer could be so good, but only in the exact clutch moment. Still a bit pricey. Could you make it work on buildings? Static defense spam at expos shuts a lot of small drops down. Or 100 energy? Maybe each sci vessel getting 2 would make it OP late game, but it's like a Hunter seeker missile level of a risk to use.

Best situation I can think of is tvz mech versus ling hydra muta, where you nerve jammer the mutas as they try and snipe tanks, trading 1 tank for ~4 mutas. Or nerve jamming your mech line against ling ultra once they commit
Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1746 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-03 09:40:32
February 03 2013 08:44 GMT
#4070
A couple of concerns:

- High ground miss change is too high? It currently is 50% miss chance for a unit on low ground to attack a unit on high ground or higher up on a ramp. The good aspect is that it really makes terrain matters. The bad thing is that in has a huge effect in the early game, when a low numer of units are involved. I consider to reduce the number to 40 or 30%.

- Chrono boost worthless? The macro mechanincs "feel" quite fair and balanced between the races.. Races seems to developt their economy, tech and army at somewhat equal levels. But on the other hand, chrono seems weak. In SC2 it reduces the build time by 10 seconds. Here it reduces it by 6 seconds. 4 chrono boost on the nexus = 1 more worker. 5 chrono boost on an upgrade = 30 seconds faster upgrade... Ok one good aspect is that Chrono can be used on cannons.. But still..

- Ranking system? Anyone knows anything more about this delicate subject?

- Xel Naga Watch towers. Thoughts on this?

Creator of Starbow
JohnnyZerg
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy378 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-03 13:06:31
February 03 2013 12:38 GMT
#4071
If reduce duration (from 15 to 12) and increased effect (from 40% to 50%), this chronoboost is same. Reduce bt by 6s.
The advantage is that you can run multiple chronobost: if we execute 4 chronoboost of 15 seconds, we can perform 5 chronoboost than 12 seconds. Only that the 4 chronoboosts have reduced bt 24s, while the 5 chronoboosts have reduced bt 30 sec.

Edit: idem 60% for 10sec.
Fuchsteufelswild
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2028 Posts
February 03 2013 14:59 GMT
#4072
^Thus completing 90 build time over 60 game seconds instead of 84, right? Sounds good to me.

Xel'Naga Towers, again, either none or strategically placed ones that either
1 - have a smaller vision radius
OR
2 - are placed in positions that are not as key to play (so not covering major attack paths) but offer some scouting in more obscure area, which might help to spot things like particular proxy placements (making those spots far less popular for proxy buildings, obviously!) and spotting drops coming if they pass through that area when you have the tower.
I like 2 better, although making the radius a little smaller as well might be a good thing anyway.

Miss chance, I would try 30%. I remember hearing different numbers thrown about for the actual miss chance in BW and two of them were 50% and 30%, so let's try 30% now!

On Nerve Jammer, I'd just be afraid that if they cost 100 or less energy, there might be situations where entire armies are wiped out because an entire (enemy) army can't fire, from plenty of Nerve Jammers being thrown down all over the area as an enemy attacked the terran, or perhaps in front of the terran as they attacked!
n.b. Those uses of pronouns might be a lot more confusing if you choose to imagine a TvT!!!
So I'd just prefer we avoid making an energy cost reduction the solution.
ZerO - FantaSy - Calm - Nal_rA - Jaedong - NaDa - EffOrt - Bisu - by.hero - StarDust - Welmu - Nerchio - Supernova - Solar - Squirtle - LosirA - Grubby - IntoTheRainbow - Golden... ~~~ Incredible Miracle and Woongjin Stars 화이팅!
Deleted User 97295
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1137 Posts
February 03 2013 16:43 GMT
#4073
--- Nuked ---
Danko__
Profile Joined January 2012
Poland429 Posts
February 03 2013 16:48 GMT
#4074
I liked old, good damage reduction more than misschance too.
Azelja
Profile Joined May 2011
Japan762 Posts
February 03 2013 17:31 GMT
#4075
Agreed.
Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1746 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-03 18:07:38
February 03 2013 18:07 GMT
#4076
@High ground advantage

Random miss chance adds an element of unpredictability to the game. 5 Stalker vs 3 Stalkers is not always a win. 3 Stalkers vs 5 stalkers is not always a loss. It creates moments of "Wow that was a lucky fucker!"

In a game today: 3 Lurkers burrows near the ramp. A clump of marines retreat but its too late... The spine launches. 1 hit, 2 misses. The marines survive with low life. "Haha wow lucky!" It creates feelings. Either anger or happiness ^^

All of a sudden scenarios we take for granted does not always happen. With damage reduction, we can still take things for granted - 4 lurkers will always be enough to kill marines up a ramp. 2 Stalkers will always beat 1 stalkers.

There are positive and negative effects to a system like this. But I am starting to like it. I can see the advantages of damage reduction too. But feel free to convince me if you think miss chance sucks.
Creator of Starbow
Fuchsteufelswild
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2028 Posts
February 03 2013 18:25 GMT
#4077
^It's also yet another factor to consider that affects damage rather than just knowing whether you'll deal enough damage to kill things assuming they do hit and I'm not sure we need that added into the mix.
I do prefer the unpredictability of the potential misses to the unpredictability of the damage...well, unpredictable unless you learn all amounts of hits required with AND without 50% damage reduction! I think it's too much for any of us to want to think about.
ZerO - FantaSy - Calm - Nal_rA - Jaedong - NaDa - EffOrt - Bisu - by.hero - StarDust - Welmu - Nerchio - Supernova - Solar - Squirtle - LosirA - Grubby - IntoTheRainbow - Golden... ~~~ Incredible Miracle and Woongjin Stars 화이팅!
JohnnyZerg
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy378 Posts
February 03 2013 18:44 GMT
#4078
@High ground advantage
I like it, but at the same time I do not like the luck factor. I would prefer a harm reduction in% if possible.
Danko__
Profile Joined January 2012
Poland429 Posts
February 03 2013 18:54 GMT
#4079
Frustration factor.
AmericanUmlaut
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2597 Posts
February 03 2013 18:58 GMT
#4080
I like the luck factor. It's only significant during battles with low numbers of units, since it will average out to very close to the same result as a 50% damage reduction over the course of a larger battle, and I agree that being unsure about the outcome is interesting.

That being said, the important thing to me is that there is a significant high-ground advantage. Whether it's miss chance or % damage reduction doesn't matter a huge amount, since, as I pointed out, once you've got a certain number of shots in a battle the difference between the two is insignificant.
The frumious Bandersnatch
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