On June 15 2012 08:24 Kabel wrote: Starbow is no more.
Well that just sucks. I was starting to get into this game and it is a lot of fun. Don't see why you want to discontinue it.
In fact, why would you remove the whole mod completely? Hell, I'd get some friends of mine and myself and we could play. You might as well keep it on Battle.net for those who still play it.
I would continue it but I have no experience with the StarCraft 2 editor.
Protoss kills everything.
The games I played, it seemed that they had a harder time. I like the idea of the gateway and the warpgate.
Zerg just sucks.
I thought the zerg were much more interesting. I really, really like the idea of the queen "breeding" eggs on the ground as a macro mechanic. It was so cool and Zerg feeling.
On a side note, actually a suggestion; I think the upgrades for zerglings and hydralisks are way too confusing. I think they should be a little more descriptive in their tooltip. I had a hard time understanding what I was getting with the upgrades.
Terran is not fun to play. The new macro mechanic is just confusing.
Ok so I main Zerg and I played Terran most of the time. Now I completely disagree with this statement above. The macro mechanics especially on the orbital command are probably the most fun abilities to use in a while. Such a great idea and interesting idea especially with the overcharge. That adds definitely more skill needed to use the mechanics and knowing your stuff.
I'm not sure how I felt about the reactor though. It was really weird. I either got tech labs or I didn't get anything on the barracks since the reactors I felt were too confusing and pointless sort of. You could possibly think of a new idea for the reactor on the barracks.
I like a lot of the upgrades to the siege tank that are available at the tech lab on the factory. I love the siege range upgrade from it since I've done some timing attacks.
Approach more of a BW-feeling but still feel fresh and unique. More positional play, with better tanks, lurkers, cannons with chrono boost, reavers, spider mines etc. More expansions and a spread out economy. Less deathball More spread out combat.
1. It felt like Brood War definitely with the old school units. 2. Tanks are dominate on this mod. Love them! 3. I've had up to 5 bases at once. 4. Brood War had the same thing, it was just harder to pull off since of the 12 control group thing and required more control overall but since the mod offers the old school area control units, it isn't that much of a problem anymore. At least, in the game I played. 5. Maybe bigger maps and it will help with that?
Overall, I think you should continue the mod. I will definitely support it because I enjoy it a lot and I could give you suggestions, ideas. Anything!
Just don't give up on such an awesome idea and definitely a creative mod.
I wish I knew how to use the map editor, I would love to continue this.
If I were you, I would still leave it up, people will play it and eventually correct all of the "problems" that you mentioned.
EDIT: Actually, this reminds me a lot of DOTA. The first guy quit, the second guy perfected it. I would definetly leave it up and see if you could give it to someone else.
I will reupload it again on EU. I have mailed the latest version to my NA uploader, because you guys overseas have an old version available. Now with more fixes and balance changes.
<3
If anyone happens to have some nice ingame screenshots of the game, of combats, of bases, or something else sweet, please PM me so I can upload them in the opening post. Just to give people a feeling of how the game might look like once you come a bit into the game.
I think it is hard to grasp it if you just read this thread to get a bigger picture of the game. I have an old laptop I play and use stareditor on, so I play on lowest graphics. Would be nice with some better looking pictures, videos, replays or something else
If you happen to play it, please continue leave feedback and suggestions of how to improve things in the game. Nothing is rock solid or 100% great. Many things I doubt about myself and thinking to remove/remake. Thats why feedback is so great to have.
On June 16 2012 23:52 Kabel wrote: If you happen to play it, please continue leave feedback and suggestions of how to improve things in the game. Nothing is rock solid or 100% great. Many things I doubt about myself and thinking to remove/remake. Thats why feedback is so great to have.
Ok so here are some of my suggestions so far and mainly constructive feedback that I THINK should be changed/tweaked. I have put spoiler tags over the text for easier reading!
The cost for an expansion is way too cheap right now and bases run out just a little too fast. I think the expo costs should be reverted back to the Zerg 300, T and P 400.
The mod should be played on bigger maps especially.
Remember that races are asymmetrical so they have to be different!
Since the "Calldown SCV" spell is on a cooldown, it should not cost anything. Meaning it should still cost energy obviously but the fact that I am sacrificing an overcharge for it is a little odd. So maybe since it is on cooldown. It should possibly have 0 mineral cost but keep it at the 25 energy cost. So someone who isn't on top of their "Calldown SCV" should be punished and that would probably separate the difference between a good Terran and a great Terran. Someone who uses their Orbital Command energy a lot should be rewarded for it.
Another thing on the Terran side is that the Psiemic(?) Disruptor needs to be removed because it requires an upgrade and it is never used. Also the Terrans' need something that guarantees them a kill especially when fighting a lot of Lurkers or Zerglings. They have no chance against such an army. Something like the old school Irradiate spell on the Science Vessel would work but should require an upgrade. I do also believe that the spell "EMP" that is on the Science Vessel currently should come with it when produced instead of requiring an upgrade.
The Warpgate still trumps over the normal Gateway. Cooldown on the Warpgate specifically should probably be increased by 10 seconds. Of course, this value can changed at any time.
There is currently a bug where I can produce Reavers without having the Robotics Bay.
High Templars should be able to cast Force Field again.
Warpgate Technology should be 100/100 instead of 150/100 (m/g).
I like the idea of the Zerg upgrading in "levels" but the upgrades on the Spawning Pool and Hydralisk/Lurker Den seem a little bit too overpowered and harder to balance at it is. You don't know exactly what you're getting when you upgrade either the speed on the Zerglings/Hydralisks or the attack speed upgrade on the Zerglings. The tooltip lacks description.
The Swarm Guardian should be able to cast the Plague ability.
The Infestor is definitely lacking I'd say. Tremor requires an upgrade and Tremor itself has a cooldown that is way too long to be effective for harassing. Either allow the Infestor to cast Neural Parasite (taken from the Swarm Guardian) while burrowed to make it a very deadly weapon. Also, the Infestor attacks are too similar to the Reaver. Either give it a spell that can slow units like Ensnare or remove its attack completely. Mainly because it feels too much like the Reaver and because it slows with its normal attack is too powerful. Obviously, anything can change overtime so if Gossem feels like it is too powerful. He can simply remove it from a future build.
Lurkers when firing should have a distinct sound because currently they have this really quiet attack which is too hard for the enemy to realize that he is being shot by Lurkers until half of his army is dead. They need to definitely be louder because the enemy should know that they're walking into death and mainly because it doesn't sound that cool at the moment.
Obviously I may think of more things to suggestions but this is what I think so far should be changed/tweaked!
Today I´ve sent the new patch to my friend Laertes in NA who will probably upload it soon. Don´t know if it is available yet for you. In it I´ve changed some general things. (Including some of the things you mention)
Some bigger things:
Expansions now cost 300 for P & T. 200 for Z. Its not a golden number. Perhaps 400 & 300 is the best. The reason I have lowered it is because players shall be able to expand easier. Since each expansion generates less income than in normal SC2, I feel that that the "investment risk" of expanding must be lowered.
The upgrades for Zerglings & Hydralisks are now normal again. There is only 1 level. As in BW & SC2. Thats because it was confusing for players and did not really add anything to the game.
Dragoons has been nerfed.
And some more minor fixes.
I would love bigger maps to play it on. I am looking for better maps. I will check out Devolution, which you have mentioned!
Some of the other suggestions you have I will implement in the next patch! Like lowering the cost of the warp gates etc.
The spellcasters are my biggest problem. High templars, Infestors, Swarm Guardian and Science Vessel.
High templars had force field and storm. But players never used force field once they researched storm. Only sometimes on ramps and stuff.
Science Vessels had Irradiate, but it was never used. Even though I made it kinda powerful, it did not have the same impact on the game as in BW. It was very easy to micro away the irradiated unit. (Much easier in SC2 than in BW I suppose) So instead I changed the Irradiate into the Hellfire missile of the wraith, which deals splash damage and is more flexible.
Swarm guardian had plague but I removed it cause people could fly everywhere and just plague everything. It was so hard for the enemy to get out of the "plague-grip." I never found a balance in it.
With this being said, of course I can bring back the spells again, if they do in fact fit. As the casters are right now, I don´t think they are perfect. The infestor is the one I think most about. But I dont really know what to do with it.
I think for the Infestor and Swarm Guardian. I think they should switch roles.
Where the Swarm Guardian is capable of using the Ensnare like ability from the Infestor except that it is a spell instead of a normal attack. Then you could keep Dark Swarm on the Swarm Guardian.
Swarm Guardian spells: Dark Swarm, Ensnare, Consume (needs upgrade).
Infestor spells: Plague (costs all of its energy, requires research), Neural Parasite (can be used while burrowed, comes with Infestor). I've been trying to think of a new spell for the Infestor but I think it overlaps with some other spells. Ask if you're curious to hear what I thought of.
The reasoning for the Neural Parasite being able to cast while burrowed is because it's impossible to get it off anyway, unless of course you can't see the Infestor. Not only that but Terran's usually never move out until they have a Science Vessel to watch for Lurkers, and in this case; Infestors too.
The Swarm Guardian is the one who "guards" the swarm and uses mostly defensive spells. While the Infestor... infests! It lays out deadly firepower yet it can be easily countered with something like the Science Vessel.
Since the Infestor is a ground unit, it is hard to sneak into a base unnoticed with the Infestor. You can see the distortion on the ground as it moves underground. Now compared to the Swarm Guardian which is a flying unit. You can't fly one of those around the map and cast Plague. That is technically flawed design.
Also, would it be possible for you to change the Lurker sound so it isn't as quiet? Sometimes you can't even tell you're being killed by Lurkers until they've killed most of your army.
Pretty good job I have to say, I really like how the tanks feel better than regular SC2.
I do have a few suggestions though, first I would recommend changing the reaver. Try making its projectile or missile speed (whatever its called in the editor) faster. Its really strange as sometimes it moves fast, and others it moves like slow as hell....making it really easy to just move the unit away or move backwards.
It also seems to get glitched on the terrain. Often times I will fire it and then it will get stuck and move very slowly, and then shoot forward. I think its being caused by the ball hitting the terrain, so mabye you should look into the missile settings. I know from experience with the editor that you can change the missiles path. If you made it a slight...slights the keyword here...arc up it would avoid a lot of the terran conflictions.
Obviously you would need to make it a really small arc. Otherwise you could shoot over cliffs and other terrain.
Might want to look into gas income or mineral income. It feels to hard to get actual gas units, I had a game against someone where I could support like 20 rax's but only like 2 facts and a starport. Either mineral income should go down, or gas income should go up by 1 per run.
On June 17 2012 06:35 Tausken wrote: Might want to look into gas income or mineral income. It feels to hard to get actual gas units, I had a game against someone where I could support like 20 rax's but only like 2 facts and a starport. Either mineral income should go down, or gas income should go up by 1 per run.
What I was thinking about is that the mineral per trip should be reduced to 4 and gas income to 6.
Also, would it be possible for you to change the Lurker sound so it isn't as quiet? Sometimes you can't even tell you're being killed by Lurkers until they've killed most of your army.
Yep, I´ll have a look at it. Good point, havent thought about it
By the way, anyone notice that Dragoons make weird sounds? You can hear the enemy producing Dragoons.. "I come to serve" they say when they come into play. Or is it just for me this happens? O_o
On June 17 2012 08:09 Laertes wrote: Hey, Gossen, I have a request, me and dakota were spitballing, we think it would be better if you made the changes dakota suggested, put back the Reaver, which would require Robo Bay, and then created the DARK ARCHON for the protoss, which would have Force Field and Maelstrom, whereas the HT would remain with Feedback and Psi-Storm. In addition, make the changes for dakota, he knows a shit or two with what he's talking about.
Yeah I think he has good ideas, but as of right now I will have a busy week coming up. So I will not make any larger changes right now, like adding the Dark Archon or change the spells for the other casters. Its not that I don´t like it, its just that it takes a lot of time and effort. I will make it soon though. But please play the new version to see how some of the other changes work. (The reaver is back in the version I sent you. It is supposed to be atleast! O_o)
On January 21 2012 03:42 Itisis wrote: Barracks, Factories, and Starports can be salvaged..? Also, I don't see the reason behind the Gateway/Warp Gate change, seems like you just changed it for the sake of changing it.
This way warpgate and gateway both have an advantage and a disadvantage. If you ask me, this is how it should work. Right now in Starcraft 2 a normal gateway is just a process to get a warpgate.. you could as well just upgrade "Warpgate" and from then on just build warpgates...
The way he puts it will give you the benefit of harassing / instant reinforcements via warpgates, but the cooldown will be slower than the production cycle of a normal gateway.. if you need to macro for defence for example.
agree 100% it seems that gateways in the gbase game sewrve little purpose I like how they work in this mod it just makes sense to me.
On January 21 2012 03:42 Itisis wrote: Barracks, Factories, and Starports can be salvaged..? Also, I don't see the reason behind the Gateway/Warp Gate change, seems like you just changed it for the sake of changing it.
This way warpgate and gateway both have an advantage and a disadvantage. If you ask me, this is how it should work. Right now in Starcraft 2 a normal gateway is just a process to get a warpgate.. you could as well just upgrade "Warpgate" and from then on just build warpgates...
The way he puts it will give you the benefit of harassing / instant reinforcements via warpgates, but the cooldown will be slower than the production cycle of a normal gateway.. if you need to macro for defence for example.
agree 100% it seems that gateways in the gbase game sewrve little purpose I like how they work in this mod it just makes sense to me.
Yes, we've been discussing this change and it's more than likely to happen.
On June 17 2012 14:02 0neder wrote: Name is silly, but a great idea I've been thinking about for a while now. I can help on a few things maybe. I'm a professional product designer.
EPT
