EPThttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147942
It's pretty shitty and it hasn't the same proportions but if someone wants to update it i can give them the file
[M](2)TPW Iron Curtain - Page 2
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Maur
Spain63 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147942 It's pretty shitty and it hasn't the same proportions but if someone wants to update it i can give them the file | ||
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monitor
United States2408 Posts
On September 21 2011 05:52 Samro225am wrote: i understand that there is an anti-symathy against rocks and i would say leave them out whereever you can. you could leave them away here easily. it is safe enough as you state. for me it is not about defensive here, but taking down the rocks as an attacker. to have the extra path, to be able to harass, to take the bridge base as a fourth. the ccw fourth is quite a bit further away. so i think the rocks here are a good decision. rocks that are not only in your way, but open up new path that are optional are something positiv in my opinion and hopefully entertaining. we need an emancipation movement for rocks really  I don't really think I agree about the rocks. In this situation, adding rocks in the fashion you stated is a "bandaid" fix for something potentially flawed in my opinion. On this map, the fourth is almost easier to defend than the third. This is definitely not a great gameplay factor because somebody who has gotten ahead by securing their third earlier gets an even farther lead because of an easy fourth. For example in a hypothetical TvZ, if a three base terran takes out the Zerg's third, they can expand to a fourth easier than the Zerg can re-expand to the third. This makes it so even if the person behind plays much better, he can't necessarily win because the map rewards the player already ahead. Additionally, encourage harass and attacks is always something good for a map. Turtling up and just sitting is not good gameplay (Terminus is less extreme, but a somewhat good example). The rocks are really just a nuisance to take down when you are trying to harass, infact they almost stop zergling runbys competely. I would encourage army movement instead of nullifying it. Just simply alter it. Balance can always be attained in any map with just slight modifications- the real problem is getting the gameplay to be good. In this circumstance, I would probably put 6x6 debris blocking half the choke so that it is still easily defended, but harass can still be used. If you want to engage, breaking the rocks won't be a big problem for a large army. | ||
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
On September 21 2011 07:27 monitor wrote: I don't really think I agree about the rocks. In this situation, adding rocks in the fashion you stated is a "bandaid" fix for something potentially flawed in my opinion. On this map, the fourth is almost easier to defend than the third. This is definitely not a great gameplay factor because somebody who has gotten ahead by securing their third earlier gets an even farther lead because of an easy fourth. For example in a hypothetical TvZ, if a three base terran takes out the Zerg's third, they can expand to a fourth easier than the Zerg can re-expand to the third. This makes it so even if the person behind plays much better, he can't necessarily win because the map rewards the player already ahead. Additionally, encourage harass and attacks is always something good for a map. Turtling up and just sitting is not good gameplay (Terminus is less extreme, but a somewhat good example). The rocks are really just a nuisance to take down when you are trying to harass, infact they almost stop zergling runbys competely. I would encourage army movement instead of nullifying it. Just simply alter it. Balance can always be attained in any map with just slight modifications- the real problem is getting the gameplay to be good. In this circumstance, I would probably put 6x6 debris blocking half the choke so that it is still easily defended, but harass can still be used. If you want to engage, breaking the rocks won't be a big problem for a large army. Great post monitor. Me: "About rocks... are there rocks on this map lol?? In the pictures I'm seeing in the OP there are none and I was basing my thoughts on that. OH THERE ARE ROCKS." I was looking at the analyzer pics, I thought they were hypothetical in Barrin's picture. >.> Anyway, imo neither 3rd is that much harder to take than any currently common maps for PvZ. In the current PvZ metagame you generally end up putting up a number of cannons at all bases outside your main and nat, and the way that you need to fight infestors requires adequate space. So, I don't find the space around the cw 3rd to be scary at all, nor the high ground, because you wouldn't engage up there anyway. The reason I personally don't like going ccw is because of exactly what you said about towers, Barrin. They can be used against you. And it's much harder to control the tower up there. However, if it's a game where I'd be comfortable going blind or relying on an observer while I put up the 3rd, then it wouldn't really matter. Even with a walloff, the ccw 3rd can be attacked by a squad of roaches or whatnot (at the wall) while the main zerg army threatens to push your natural. To fend off a side-attack like that, you need colossus behind the wall or you have to meet the roaches around the other side, or let them break in and hold them there. At the cw 3rd, you don't have this problem of a split path to defend your 3rd, it's just a line with an intersection in the middle (where you park your army). Regarding the watchtower above the cw 3rd, if they zerg takes it while they're pushing, you know they've committed their army there which is all you need to know to defend your 3rd. Having it is only important to know when and where a push is coming, and they won't be able to take it away from you unless they bring their whole army... which is what the tower is meant to tell you. Otherwise you're on standby with your army at the intersection to meet them if they come ccw. However with these rocks! It seems either choice is fine depending on what stage of the game you want to be more of a hurdle, and personal preference. If the ccw 3rd was made into a deadend base per monitor's early post in this thread, it would set the expansion pattern but not the order of where you go when, that would be pretty cool. | ||
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EatThePath
United States3943 Posts
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