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(4) Forgotten Sanctuary v1.3
Forgotten Sanctuary is a Large-size melee map using the “Typhon” texture set. The map supports 4 players but is meant to be a 1v1.
Things to note about this map:
•There are LoS curtains inside of each main, providing opportunities for players to be sneaky with Nydus Worms or proxy structures.
•Regardless of where players start, the option of expanding away from or towards your enemy is available.
•The natural can be walled off with a Pylon, Forge, and Gateway or 4 Spine Crawlers.
•Space is available to harrass the main mineral lines with air units.
•Cliff-walking units can access the main via the associated 3rd expansion (see 5th detail image with the Collosi).
Detailed Images:
+ Show Spoiler +
Mapanalyzer Images
+ Show Spoiler +
Map Specifications
•Full size: 176x176
•Playable size: 156x148
•Max players: 4
•Total number of bases: 16 (4 rich mineral)
•Total number of natural expansions: 4
•Total number of 3rd expansions: 4
•Total amount of minerals: 192,000
•Total amount of gas: 80,000
•Total number of mineral nodes in each rich mineral base: 6
•Total number of destructible rocks: 4
•Total number of ramps: 18
•Total number of Xel’naga Watchtowers: 3
•Watchtower Coverage: 24.9%
•Total number of LoS curtains: 11
•Total number of cliff levels: 3
•Number of Creep Tumors required to reach Natural Expansion creep: 1
•Number of Creep Tumors required to reach 3rd Expansion creep: 4
Replays can be downloaded here.
Changelog
July 4, 2011
+ Show Spoiler +
Map released to Battle.net.
The map has been published to Battle.net.
Comments and suggestions are welcome. Thanks for reading!
Other maps by me:
(4) Redrock Mesa
(4) Charred Redoubt
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looks really cool, though it looks like vertical spawns have a very short rush distance
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your southeast main ramp is wrong
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your southeast main ramp is wrong
Thank you. I had posted old analyzer images by mistake. The correct images are now up.
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first analysis from my point ^^
design:
+) I like your textures
+) awesome ramp design with the protoss decals!
-) less of the temple inlays, imo they are a doodad, that should be "special"
8/10
balancing:
+) good job with cross and horizontal spawns
+) xel naga towers
-) very short vertical rush distance heavily favors terran
-) the gold bases in vertical direction might be too easy to expand to
-) the middle area on the low ground might be a bit "useless" everytime a match goes into positional battles
7/10
creativity & experimentals:
+) nice LoS-blocker at the potential blue third
-) everything looks pretty "average"
6/10
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Looks like a good map.
If it were one thing I'd change about it, I'd probably increase the vertical length of the map a bit, so that vertical spawns were not as close as they are now. Not sure if that could be done simply be modifying the terrain a bit or you'd have to increase the size of the map itself then add that extra length above/below the naturals. That's just how I'd done it, but overall I'd say your map looks better than any of the current ladder maps (maybe with a couple exceptions).
I would prefer if you included a 90* picture of the entire map though. Like an overhead image without any extra information.
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You could try rotational symmetry so the game plays the same whether you spawn horizontal or vertical
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I really like this map. I don't know why people are complaining about vertical rush distance because that's shorter than most ladder maps. I think you need to cut down horizontal distance by a bit(slice 1 "hex" from the areas between the outside and middle XNT). 116 seconds is definitely a fine rush distance, but 145 is getting into the ridiculous range, especially when you consider how easy it is to block the choke. The only thing I really dislike about this map is the third placement. With horizontal spawns, a Terran will be able to slowly choke out the third of the Zerg, while not being threatened. However, I'd have to play it to see if it would be possible for Zerg to take their third at the opposite main.
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On July 06 2011 02:55 Zaphid wrote:
You could try rotational symmetry so the game plays the same whether you spawn horizontal or vertical
Not really. While the distance to ramps would be balanced, rotational symmetry would rotate the facing/position of bases as well and thus f.ex. the natural of one player can be vulnerable depending on the spawn location of the opponent.
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On July 06 2011 03:15 Peterblue wrote:
I really like this map. I don't know why people are complaining about vertical rush distance because that's shorter than most ladder maps. I think you need to cut down horizontal distance by a bit(slice 1 "hex" from the areas between the outside and middle XNT). 116 seconds is definitely a fine rush distance, but 145 is getting into the ridiculous range.
Its not 145 seconds, its 145 tiles. XNC has ~140 rush distance (don't remember exactly atm)
Tiles/2.5=seconds, so 116 tiles means 46.4 second rush. Which means that the moment you see him run out, you have to put down your spine crawlers, and they still won't be ready when he gets there.
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On July 06 2011 03:15 Peterblue wrote:
I really like this map. I don't know why people are complaining about vertical rush distance because that's shorter than most ladder maps. I think you need to cut down horizontal distance by a bit(slice 1 "hex" from the areas between the outside and middle XNT). 116 seconds is definitely a fine rush distance, but 145 is getting into the ridiculous range, especially when you consider how easy it is to block the choke. The only thing I really dislike about this map is the third placement. With horizontal spawns, a Terran will be able to slowly choke out the third of the Zerg, while not being threatened. However, I'd have to play it to see if it would be possible for Zerg to take their third at the opposite main.
you are misinterpreting the analyizer numbers.
116, 145 etc... are distances (like a map is 128*128 which means that each side is 128 "units of length" long)
To give you an example: Xel'Naga Caverns has a rush distance of 143.3 from main to main.
I guess Xel'Naga Caverns is the reason why people consider the ~150ish distance a pretty good value to aim for, as a mapmaker.
to compare 116: Steppes of War has 126
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On July 06 2011 04:04 iGrok wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 03:15 Peterblue wrote:
I really like this map. I don't know why people are complaining about vertical rush distance because that's shorter than most ladder maps. I think you need to cut down horizontal distance by a bit(slice 1 "hex" from the areas between the outside and middle XNT). 116 seconds is definitely a fine rush distance, but 145 is getting into the ridiculous range. Its not 145 seconds, its 145 tiles. XNC has ~140 rush distance (don't remember exactly atm) Tiles/2.5=seconds, so 116 tiles means 46.4 second rush. Which means that the moment you see him run out, you have to put down your spine crawlers, and they still won't be ready when he gets there.
Holy crap, I honestly did not know that. Disregard most of what I said then.
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On July 06 2011 04:18 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 03:15 Peterblue wrote:
I really like this map. I don't know why people are complaining about vertical rush distance because that's shorter than most ladder maps. I think you need to cut down horizontal distance by a bit(slice 1 "hex" from the areas between the outside and middle XNT). 116 seconds is definitely a fine rush distance, but 145 is getting into the ridiculous range, especially when you consider how easy it is to block the choke. The only thing I really dislike about this map is the third placement. With horizontal spawns, a Terran will be able to slowly choke out the third of the Zerg, while not being threatened. However, I'd have to play it to see if it would be possible for Zerg to take their third at the opposite main. you are misinterpreting the analyizer numbers. 116, 145 etc... are distances (like a map is 128*128 which means that each side is 128 "units of length" long) To give you an example: Xel'Naga Caverns has a rush distance of 143.3 from main to main. I guess Xel'Naga Caverns is the reason why people consider the ~150ish distance a pretty good value to aim for, as a mapmaker. to compare 116: Steppes of War has 126
You're right I did misunderstand it. I can see why people were disagreeing with it then. :/
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I ran marines from CC to CC and came up with the following rush times:
Vertical (116 distance) = :50 seconds
Diagonal (164.7 distance) = 1:11 seconds
Horizontal (145 distance) = 1:03 seconds
To put that in comparison, I did the same thing with Shakuras Plateau and came up with:
Vertical = :43 seconds
Diagonal = 1:08 seconds
Horizontal = 1:11 seconds
Thank you for the feedback!
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On July 06 2011 04:42 kpm03 wrote:
I ran marines from CC to CC and came up with the following rush times:
Vertical (116 distance) = :50 seconds
Diagonal (164.7 distance) = 1:11 seconds
Horizontal (145 distance) = 1:03 seconds
To put that in comparison, I did the same thing with Shakuras Plateau and came up with:
Vertical = :43 seconds
Diagonal = 1:08 seconds
Horizontal = 1:11 seconds
Thank you for the feedback!
Yeah, but you probably should do it from nat entrance to nat entrance. That would likely cut off 10 seconds, maybe more.
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Wow that's one big ass main base!!! Good for dropping me likes it!
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I like the middle and the fact that you got 4 gold bases on decent piositions. It woudl work fine without the 2 on top and bottom, I think.
You shouldn't have vertical close positions available, the distance is way too short. The bliz maps layouted like this doesnt have that for a good reason.
Good luck in motm7 btw!
Let me know what you think of TPW Core Delta.
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On July 06 2011 04:42 kpm03 wrote:
I ran marines from CC to CC and came up with the following rush times:
Vertical (116 distance) = :50 seconds
Diagonal (164.7 distance) = 1:11 seconds
Horizontal (145 distance) = 1:03 seconds
To put that in comparison, I did the same thing with Shakuras Plateau and came up with:
Vertical = :43 seconds
Diagonal = 1:08 seconds
Horizontal = 1:11 seconds
Thank you for the feedback!
Thats because Marines are slower than workers, which are the units used for rush distance measurements (because they move at precisely 2.5 tiles/sec)
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amazing map, i really want to try it.
1 thing so, i just imagine myself in a TvX (mainly TvZ) where im top left and my opponent bottom left. Making a drop through the other side, would have to make a huge trip because zergs get map control with lings on xelnagas.
Maybe its to much covered with the xel'naga towers
other than that, it looks amazing
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Thats because Marines are slower than workers, which are the units used for rush distance measurements (because they move at precisely 2.5 tiles/sec)
I was not aware of that, thank you for clarifying.
You shouldn't have vertical close poositions available
That's a good idea, and the easiest way to fix the problem. Thank you, and good luck to you too!
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i dont think vertical position should be disabled. They are perfectly fine imo.
Are you testing it? if you want i can help you in that.
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On July 06 2011 08:06 Reptilia wrote:
i dont think vertical position should be disabled. They are perfectly fine imo.
Are you testing it? if you want i can help you in that.
Yeah 115 should be fine. I mean after all it's 3 more than close position Metalopolis!
![[image loading]](http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-rolleyes008.gif)
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Are you testing it? if you want i can help you in that.
I have tested it about 30 times with a small group ranging from silver to diamond level players. I posted a few of the replays in the original post. They all thought the rush distances were good. /shrug Not everyone will be happy with everything I guess.
But I could always use more testers. If anyone wishes to help in that regard I will gladly accept. Just send me a pm. I would like to hear more feedback on this before changing it.
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I love that attitude. You don't need to accept every piece of advice ever(especially because on here you'd end up with a 4 player, 12 base per player, macro map where Terran would never have a hope of winning).
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