this is my current project. i have been hearing alot that people wanted more open maps with less forced pathways. like metalopolis. i wanted to give it a shot, and also work with the korhal tileset. which feels very different to work with than most other tilesets. but that is a welcome change the map isn't finished yet, but it's been very time consuming so far so i decided it might not hurt to get some more feedback before spending even more time on it. bring it on :D
On April 13 2011 06:15 adso wrote: <3 Love the openness, maybe a little low on the losb count?
not every map needs losblockers, I don't even know why there hasn't been one map without watchtowers too, you know in BW we used to actually leave units around to get map vision...
looks solid, one thing I would do is make it more obvious that the brown lowgrounds are unpathable for the player, currently its a bit confusing thinking you could maybe siege the nat or something.
hmm, i was actually trying to make the upper left side more attractive as there is one less base than on the bottom right side. thats why i wanted to try out a 3 gas expo in the far corner. but coming to think about it, it's probably unlikely you will take the one right next to your opponents highground. it's definitely something i am considering to do, i just don't want to do something too fancy :D
This has a really nice level of complexity, which is not too much but with subtle consequences. I love how the players can react to which direction the other expands and the map becomes a split map assymetrically, or they can go head to head viably on either end. Example: PvZ I will always go to the bottom right corner, prompting zerg to start going upper left. But it might be completely different in other matchups.
I think that the natural should not connect to the (potential) third via the path hanging off of the main. It just seems too narrow and a Terran player can just cliff their and use the choke to their advantage in a ZvT. You could remove that slice of terrain and widen the natural ramp to compensate for it (and/or widen the potential third's ramp as well).
I like the map's layout a lot because of its diagonal line of symmetry, which you do not see as often anymore, and how you have an option as what base you want to be your third. Nice job!
I actually really like this map. The texturing really fits the concept. Good job! Like EatThePath said, Zerg can always expand away from their opponent, depending on where the opponent expands. I also like that there are 11 bases. This means that there can never be a lategame situation where, say, two terrans split the map in half exactly with tank lines, and bleed it dry.
Nice one. Looks good for macro games (especially with that easy natural), has a interesting rush distance, looks good, has well placed watchtowers (better than one fucking tower on the center of a blizzard map, permitting units to come rush you from the sides). I'll try it soon with some friends.
I wouldnt mind the centre expo as a gold base as even though tanks cant shell it from near the watchtower it does give vision their and is exposed on all sides to attack.
IMO, this is a really good map. I'd really like to play it and see it played on the ladder/tournaments. Not only is it aesthetically nice, but it actually looks really balanced and fun to play. Good job
Likes: *Great use of the tileset. Better looking than Metalopolis. *Love this type of mirroring *Awesome custom doodads.
Dislikes (minor qualms really): *I think one of the 3 center expansions should be a gold. *A bit too open give the lack of LoS blockers. I think you have sacrificed gameplay for aesthetics in this regard and it probably overly favors Zerg as a result. *Could probably load a few more doodads in the unpathable areas so that players know they can't drop there. *The main center area in which a lot of fights will end up happening is just one long flat stretch with little on the map to be used tactically besides the XWT. *I think the path from natural to third could be a bit wider. Players will need to transfer their army between the two when being attacked and it might be too tight to move a big pack of ground units. *The natural is fairly well protected from reapers/colossi while the main base is extremely vulnerable to them with a long cliff edge that needs to be defended. It would be very easy to blink up in to the main as well.
Overall, though, it is pretty awesome and I'd love to give it a shot.
On April 15 2011 06:32 joshie0808 wrote: Loving the layout, looks really interesting! Please publish on NA!! :D Keep up the great work, cant wait to see final version
I feel like the helicopter pad expo could be a gold expo instead of a regular old one. This map looks really fun though. Reminds me of the new 4v4 Blizz came out with in patch 1.3 (I can't remember map names that well) but in a 1v1 format.
I tried yesterday and what I can say is : This main is really HUGE ! There's really too much space for buildings, and it makes the main quite vunerable to drops and things like that. I know it is a part of the game, but if you want to secure your main from drops, you'll need a lot of turrets/cannons... By reducing the main you could make the path beetween the natural and the third a little bigger.
Btw, the rest of the map is really cool, good job.
based on everyone's feedback i have changed the main/natural a little bit like zoda suggested. i reduced the main size about 10%, which also opened up the narrow path to the third a little bit and made it harder to defend your natural ramp from the main highground. i have also changed the direction of the ramp. this way you can get to the center of our main quicker to fight drops and you can now also build a ghetto wall between the ramp and your natural using 2 buildings, making it also easier to defend - which also allowed me to widen up the ramp at the natural from double to tripple ramp (and widen the "backdoor" narrow path). the backdoor path can be walled with a depot and a bunker if necessary. the tripple ramp also reduces the ground distance to the other third slightly :D
looks really great! I hope this map comes into play in some tournaments, its really damn nice!
also, would it be possible to get a shot of the nats with wall offs (baracks/depots/etc for T and forge/cannon/gate etc for P) to get a better idea of how wide some things are?
Interesting diagonal symmetry going on there... Extremely well thought out in terms of balancing the massive spaces with areas where toss or terran can effectively choke up with some buildings, to prevent the map from being massively zerg favoured. Also liking that the top left watchtower still leaves one longer attack route unexposed, uber watchtowers that cover the whole map are a little pathetic imho.
It still seems that zergling runbys would be a hard to stop, as the map is effectively split into two sides, top left and bottom right, by the high ground, so if a toss or terran moves out, it will be extremely dangerous as their army will be far away... as well as the third seems a little close to the other expos imho. Overall, it's possibly a little zerg favoured (coming from a low zerg), maybe shrink the choke outside the third (near the middle 2 expos) a little.
EDIT: I'm talking about mid-late game, as it would be hard for a toss or terran to keep expanding and be able to push safely against zerg with three or more bases. But it seems taking the top side and skipping the "intended (by analyzer)" third would be a lot less open.
There's a doodad (might be inserted as a terrain object) that has stairs going down into the ground. Might be worth it to make a custom model that has no floor and just put it on top of the pre-fab stairs?
I'm a noob so take my point accordingly, but one issue I have is how it easy it is to attack into the third and forcefield it off from the natural compared to how hard it might be to reinforce into it or defend it.
@EatThePath: i didn't know about that subway station doodad/terrain object until just now :D but i'd have to import the campaign models to use them. i'm probably still going to create a new doodad because i really like this building shape i found when i googled for subway stations.:D but i am not quite sure if that architectural style fits into the map theme. + Show Spoiler +
update: working on textures:
@StutteR: that's quite true. altho there are quite a few situations where you could use the path to your own advantage i guess, or maybe as a retreat path when things go bad :D
also, Stryk offered his help to publish the map on NA servers and keep it updated. big thanks to him as it should be available there now.
i have just uploaded v1.0. i finished work on everything i wanted to get in and am now running out of ideas what else to change. so probably no more updates for a while now unless there is something broken that needs to be fixed :D future updates will be depending on feedback. OP has been update with new overview and analyzer images.
also, a shot of the subway station ingame because i love attaching images:
Should update your detailed shots in your OP with some of these newer shots as well. Also I'm wondering, are any of these doodads that you are putting around the map destructible? If not it's all good, I'm just wondering.
ps. I'm sure me/disp/tenks are going to play some sc2 tonight, I'll make sure we give this map a shot. :D
edit:
Played on this map once today, I'd upload the replay but it was a ZvZ that sat on 1base so wasn't very interesting.
One thing I'd suggest is changing the lighting a bit. If I recall correctly it seemed a little too brownish.
I kinda agree that the map needs a gold to fight over, although above poster says the bottom location would be good. I thought about that and I think the middle location would provoke a lot of fighting. At the 3 gas base I would put rocks to block an easy expo there? Overall excellent map!
i don't really want to force a spot to fight over. i feel like without a gold base you will see more battles taking place all over the map which i personally find a little more interesting
technically, you should be able to access any m3 model file and its textures with an mpq editor and be able to reimport them into your new map. the subway station above isn't the one from the campaign, tho
played around with the lighting about since it was kinda bad. i will probably ditch the sundown lighting and go for a night or daylight lighting.
here's the original one:
then i tried a night lighting, but i am always a little bit worried about it being too dark. also drop shadows during night look kinda strange, but it's already an improvement imho :D
the one i like the most atm is a plain daylight szene. i feel like this one looks the best, altho it doesn't fit the curfew theme as much as a sundown/nighttime lighting. but i'm tending towards this one right now
opinions?
on another note: moved the minerals on the top left thirds a little bit closer to the ramp/natural along with some minor cosmetic changes
I like the day and night, and the original. The sundown lighting is just sort of random, so the others are better in terms of aesthetic meshing. The night example is too monotone, I would add some color. Also metalopolis already has a sort of dark feel. The daytime light matches the feel of your map best, I would say. It's also by far the most playable.
Love the custom models dude aweome work and as for the lighting i kind of like maps that are lighter possibly down to the map pool being soooooooo dark but keep up the good work.
in the current version the thirds are a little bit hard to take. so this is a possible upcoming change to the thirds. shrinking the size of the main some more to open up the path more and also moving the third a little bit closer to your natural and further away from your opponents third.
I like the gold in the center and 3gas in the other corner. With that low ground base, it seemed too easy to get 4 bases and then push along the bottom right, pick up the gold while pressuring opponent and securing their chokepoint near the subway station. Also, the XNT nestled between the ramps is cool, I love that style. It will make the gold hard to sneak but powerful to hold.
The only thing that worries me is that the area around the the subways up there is a little choked up now. I wouldn't mind at all except the tower makes that area important to hold, not just something you have to move through or circumvent. Perhaps you could scoot the gold high ground towards the bottom right one increment. It might end up being okay, I would test that PvZ to make sure.
About the subways in the top left .. you could have one subway entrance instead of two .. in the middle of the street (like in Berlin - Stadtmitte for instance). The downside is there will be two paths instead of 3.
EPT
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