• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:32
CEST 18:32
KST 01:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End6Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7
Community News
GSTL Returns in 2026!43Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-611
StarCraft 2
General
GSTL Returns in 2026! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Protoss AoE skill expression Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) WardiTV Mondays 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory
Brood War
General
SC4ALL II: Brood War Player Announcement 3/4 - soO Rush's Odyssey Controversy [ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End BW General Discussion StarCraft 64 is coming to Philly at SC4ALL II
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group A Small VOD Thread 2.0 CSLAN 4 is Coming! ASL Season 22 LIVESTREAM with English Commentary
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently...
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7414 users

[G] Symmetry in 3 player maps

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
bahunto28
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada262 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-01 14:54:30
March 31 2011 07:34 GMT
#1
Symmetry in 3 Player Maps

I've been working on a a 3 player spawn map and here are a few thoughts regarding symmetry using the SC2 editor that may be useful to other mapmakers. Making a nice symmetrical map is part science and part art. The following diatribe focuses on the maths.


1) Background on 3 player map symmetry

Read the great tutorial on creating a 3 player map posted by NullCurrent (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=193415)

- there is a difference between symmetry and balance, the symmetrical aspect is mathmatical, the balance aspect is more of an art
- having a general idea down on paper before you put it into the map is key
- i didn't have the programs in the aforementioned post, so i went old school maths and handdrawn graph paper

Based on your map size, know what the center point is. This is your point of symmetry. (e.g. if you are making a 200x200 map, your pos is 100,100).

A quick refresh on triangular (120°) and hexagonal (60°) geometry is helpful.


2) Understanding Cartesian and Polar coordinates

A single point on a 2D map can represented graphically in two manners:

- Cartesian coordiantes (x,y) represent a point relative to the origin by an x and y position. How far along and how far up.
- Polar coordinates (r,θ) represent the same point where r is distance from the origin and θ is the angle from the x-axis. How far away and what angle.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Examples:
- (1,1) in Cartesian coordinates is (1.414, 45°) in polar coordinates.
- (5,12) in Cartesian coordinates is (13, 23°) in polar coordinates


- the editor currently doesn't have a decent rotation function, the current version only does 90/180 degree copy/paste functions; useful for 2/4/8 player maps, but not so good for other rotations
- the editor uses Cartesian coordinates
- the basis of geometrical rotational symmetry is simplified through the use of polar coordinates

3) Application of Symmetry Funcitons

If you convert the position of main focii (starting points, expansions, etc...) from Cartesian to Polar coordinates, it is simple to replicate them in a symmetrical fashion by simply adding +/- 120° to the coordinates and converting that back to Cartesian coordinates.

By doing so, one can ensure the positioning is as symmetrical as possible, given the limitations of the sc2 editor program..

It is essential to have a central point of symmetry to base your rotations.

I suggest throwing down a Xel'naga tower as a visual reference at the very start as an easy reference point, although this is obviously subject to change based on your overall plan.


4) Online Coversion tools

EDIT: Winpark has created an awesome application that calculates the other two rotationally symmetrical points.
Link to 3 Player Map Symmetry Calculator

The following text is for those who wish to understand the underlying maths.

Coordinate Conversion:
- Converting from Cartesian coordinates to Polar coordinates
- Converting from Polar coordinates to Cartesian coordinates

Example on a 208x208 map with a point of symmetry at 104,104:

Original spawn:
Cartesian coordinates - 112,178 (+8x,+74y)
Polar coordinates - distance= 74.4312 units, angle= 83.8298°

To find the two other spawn positions, then just add 120 degrees and reconvert back to Cartesian coordinates.

Spawn #2: 74.4312 distance, 203.8298° --> -68.0859x, -30.0718y --> 36x, 74y Cartesian coordinate system

Repeat for the third spawn position. (74.4312, 323.8298° polar --> 164x, 60y cartesian)

After using the sc2analyzer program, these positions come out to 128.8, 128.8, 128.9 distance by air. Not shabby given the limitations of 1 unit increments in the editor.

5) Conclusion

Using these tools will ensure distances will be as symmetric as possible. This is essential for points such as the spawning locations, expansions and other major features of the map. Hopefully someone in the community will develop a script or other means to automate rotational symmetry, but in the meantime, this is a guide to an old-school approach.

Here is the link to the map I created using these tools:
Triskelian Mortis

Happy mapping!


meh
adso
Profile Joined March 2011
718 Posts
March 31 2011 10:08 GMT
#2
Thanks.. i have a love/hate relationship with "old math" and it's forever with me.
Math is like a pagan god (sorry just got out of the " code breaker thread ")

You should ask (pm) a mod to add [G] to your thread heading.

Hope to see your eye candy 3 player map soon
winpark
Profile Joined January 2011
Korea (South)68 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-31 17:52:30
March 31 2011 17:06 GMT
#3
I already made the calculator for symmetrical 3 player map in this January.

You can just do it easily.

http://www.playxp.com/sc2/maps/tip/view.php?article_id=2578878&page=2

JackyPrime used it for making Xel'naga Fortress.

If you want to use it, I'll upload its english version.
Winpark, author of Daybreak, Whirlwind, and Merry go round, SC2 Mapping team CruX
bahunto28
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada262 Posts
March 31 2011 17:26 GMT
#4
On April 01 2011 02:06 winpark wrote:
I've already made the calculator for symmetrical 3 player map in this January.

You can just do it easily.

http://www.playxp.com/sc2/maps/tip/view.php?article_id=2578878&page=2

JackyPrime used it for making Xel'naga Fortress.

If you want to use it, I'll upload its english version.



this is the most awesome tool!! i've been scouring the web for exactly this. well done sir!
with your permission, i will add the link to the op.
meh
winpark
Profile Joined January 2011
Korea (South)68 Posts
March 31 2011 17:42 GMT
#5
I allow you to add the link.
Winpark, author of Daybreak, Whirlwind, and Merry go round, SC2 Mapping team CruX
garlicface
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada4196 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-31 19:48:52
March 31 2011 19:47 GMT
#6
On March 31 2011 16:34 bahunto28 wrote:
2) Understand Cartesian and Polar coordinates

A single point on a 2D map can represented graphically in two manners:

- Cartesian coordiantes represent a point relative to the origin by an x and y position.

- Polar coordinates represent represent the same point by the distance and the angle from the x-axis.

Example: the point 1,1 in Cartesian coordinates is 1.414, 45 degrees in polar coordinates.

Sorry, I think I just need some clarification on this.

Did you mean, "Polar coordinates represent represent the same point by the distance and the angle from the origin"? I can't understand how if you already have a point (x,1), it would then be measured as 1.414 units from the x-axis.

Edit: There's a typo in your OP. represent represent
#TeamBuLba
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
March 31 2011 20:17 GMT
#7
Sometimes I just hold a ruler, or measuring object like a piece of paper, up to the screen. =)
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
bahunto28
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada262 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-01 14:50:50
March 31 2011 23:27 GMT
#8
On April 01 2011 04:47 garlicface wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2011 16:34 bahunto28 wrote:
2) Understand Cartesian and Polar coordinates

A single point on a 2D map can represented graphically in two manners:

- Cartesian coordiantes represent a point relative to the origin by an x and y position.

- Polar coordinates represent represent the same point by the distance and the angle from the x-axis.

Example: the point 1,1 in Cartesian coordinates is 1.414, 45 degrees in polar coordinates.

Sorry, I think I just need some clarification on this.

Did you mean, "Polar coordinates represent represent the same point by the distance and the angle from the origin"? I can't understand how if you already have a point (x,1), it would then be measured as 1.414 units from the x-axis.

Edit: There's a typo in your OP. represent represent



To clarify, a polar coordinate in form (r,θ) where r is distance from origin and θ is angle from x-axis. I'll update the OP to make it clearer.
meh
winpark
Profile Joined January 2011
Korea (South)68 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-01 15:21:00
April 01 2011 13:54 GMT
#9
I uploaded the english version.
http://www.mediafire.com/?y82uq5bjmkx6qm7

[image loading]
Winpark, author of Daybreak, Whirlwind, and Merry go round, SC2 Mapping team CruX
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The Patches Monday
16:15
#3
RotterdaM578
TKL 232
TaKeTV 159
SteadfastSC59
IndyStarCraft 56
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 578
TKL 232
ByuN 137
ProTech76
SteadfastSC 59
IndyStarCraft 56
UpATreeSC 37
RushiSC 29
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4971
Shuttle 1677
BeSt 756
Mini 615
Soma 362
Soulkey 325
Stork 312
Larva 251
Mong 153
ggaemo 128
[ Show more ]
Dewaltoss 80
sSak 57
Hyun 57
sorry 36
Bale 26
Terrorterran 25
yabsab 16
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
Dota 2
Gorgc8399
qojqva3467
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps816
x6flipin505
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang036
Other Games
singsing1673
Liquid`RaSZi1571
FrodaN753
Beastyqt724
B2W.Neo643
ceh9462
Hui .158
ToD122
ArmadaUGS111
Livibee99
QueenE57
Mew2King54
KnowMe50
Trikslyr40
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 58
• mYiSmile126
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 24
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV1216
League of Legends
• Jankos2628
• TFBlade1039
Other Games
• Shiphtur252
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
17h 28m
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
GSL
18h 28m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 7h
Replay Cast
1d 16h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 17h
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
1d 18h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
PiG Sty Festival
5 days
The Patches Monday
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLAN 4
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
Escore Tournament S3: W8
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.