• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:37
CEST 07:37
KST 14:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash4[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy9ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool49Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 519 Inner Power The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash ASL21 General Discussion Pros React To: SoulKey vs Ample RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site KK Platform will provide 1 million CNY
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group C [ASL21] Ro24 Group D [ASL21] Ro24 Group B
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Darkest Dungeon Path of Exile
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8703 users

[G] Symmetry in 3 player maps

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
bahunto28
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada262 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-01 14:54:30
March 31 2011 07:34 GMT
#1
Symmetry in 3 Player Maps

I've been working on a a 3 player spawn map and here are a few thoughts regarding symmetry using the SC2 editor that may be useful to other mapmakers. Making a nice symmetrical map is part science and part art. The following diatribe focuses on the maths.


1) Background on 3 player map symmetry

Read the great tutorial on creating a 3 player map posted by NullCurrent (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=193415)

- there is a difference between symmetry and balance, the symmetrical aspect is mathmatical, the balance aspect is more of an art
- having a general idea down on paper before you put it into the map is key
- i didn't have the programs in the aforementioned post, so i went old school maths and handdrawn graph paper

Based on your map size, know what the center point is. This is your point of symmetry. (e.g. if you are making a 200x200 map, your pos is 100,100).

A quick refresh on triangular (120°) and hexagonal (60°) geometry is helpful.


2) Understanding Cartesian and Polar coordinates

A single point on a 2D map can represented graphically in two manners:

- Cartesian coordiantes (x,y) represent a point relative to the origin by an x and y position. How far along and how far up.
- Polar coordinates (r,θ) represent the same point where r is distance from the origin and θ is the angle from the x-axis. How far away and what angle.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Examples:
- (1,1) in Cartesian coordinates is (1.414, 45°) in polar coordinates.
- (5,12) in Cartesian coordinates is (13, 23°) in polar coordinates


- the editor currently doesn't have a decent rotation function, the current version only does 90/180 degree copy/paste functions; useful for 2/4/8 player maps, but not so good for other rotations
- the editor uses Cartesian coordinates
- the basis of geometrical rotational symmetry is simplified through the use of polar coordinates

3) Application of Symmetry Funcitons

If you convert the position of main focii (starting points, expansions, etc...) from Cartesian to Polar coordinates, it is simple to replicate them in a symmetrical fashion by simply adding +/- 120° to the coordinates and converting that back to Cartesian coordinates.

By doing so, one can ensure the positioning is as symmetrical as possible, given the limitations of the sc2 editor program..

It is essential to have a central point of symmetry to base your rotations.

I suggest throwing down a Xel'naga tower as a visual reference at the very start as an easy reference point, although this is obviously subject to change based on your overall plan.


4) Online Coversion tools

EDIT: Winpark has created an awesome application that calculates the other two rotationally symmetrical points.
Link to 3 Player Map Symmetry Calculator

The following text is for those who wish to understand the underlying maths.

Coordinate Conversion:
- Converting from Cartesian coordinates to Polar coordinates
- Converting from Polar coordinates to Cartesian coordinates

Example on a 208x208 map with a point of symmetry at 104,104:

Original spawn:
Cartesian coordinates - 112,178 (+8x,+74y)
Polar coordinates - distance= 74.4312 units, angle= 83.8298°

To find the two other spawn positions, then just add 120 degrees and reconvert back to Cartesian coordinates.

Spawn #2: 74.4312 distance, 203.8298° --> -68.0859x, -30.0718y --> 36x, 74y Cartesian coordinate system

Repeat for the third spawn position. (74.4312, 323.8298° polar --> 164x, 60y cartesian)

After using the sc2analyzer program, these positions come out to 128.8, 128.8, 128.9 distance by air. Not shabby given the limitations of 1 unit increments in the editor.

5) Conclusion

Using these tools will ensure distances will be as symmetric as possible. This is essential for points such as the spawning locations, expansions and other major features of the map. Hopefully someone in the community will develop a script or other means to automate rotational symmetry, but in the meantime, this is a guide to an old-school approach.

Here is the link to the map I created using these tools:
Triskelian Mortis

Happy mapping!


meh
adso
Profile Joined March 2011
718 Posts
March 31 2011 10:08 GMT
#2
Thanks.. i have a love/hate relationship with "old math" and it's forever with me.
Math is like a pagan god (sorry just got out of the " code breaker thread ")

You should ask (pm) a mod to add [G] to your thread heading.

Hope to see your eye candy 3 player map soon
winpark
Profile Joined January 2011
Korea (South)68 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-31 17:52:30
March 31 2011 17:06 GMT
#3
I already made the calculator for symmetrical 3 player map in this January.

You can just do it easily.

http://www.playxp.com/sc2/maps/tip/view.php?article_id=2578878&page=2

JackyPrime used it for making Xel'naga Fortress.

If you want to use it, I'll upload its english version.
Winpark, author of Daybreak, Whirlwind, and Merry go round, SC2 Mapping team CruX
bahunto28
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada262 Posts
March 31 2011 17:26 GMT
#4
On April 01 2011 02:06 winpark wrote:
I've already made the calculator for symmetrical 3 player map in this January.

You can just do it easily.

http://www.playxp.com/sc2/maps/tip/view.php?article_id=2578878&page=2

JackyPrime used it for making Xel'naga Fortress.

If you want to use it, I'll upload its english version.



this is the most awesome tool!! i've been scouring the web for exactly this. well done sir!
with your permission, i will add the link to the op.
meh
winpark
Profile Joined January 2011
Korea (South)68 Posts
March 31 2011 17:42 GMT
#5
I allow you to add the link.
Winpark, author of Daybreak, Whirlwind, and Merry go round, SC2 Mapping team CruX
garlicface
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada4196 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-31 19:48:52
March 31 2011 19:47 GMT
#6
On March 31 2011 16:34 bahunto28 wrote:
2) Understand Cartesian and Polar coordinates

A single point on a 2D map can represented graphically in two manners:

- Cartesian coordiantes represent a point relative to the origin by an x and y position.

- Polar coordinates represent represent the same point by the distance and the angle from the x-axis.

Example: the point 1,1 in Cartesian coordinates is 1.414, 45 degrees in polar coordinates.

Sorry, I think I just need some clarification on this.

Did you mean, "Polar coordinates represent represent the same point by the distance and the angle from the origin"? I can't understand how if you already have a point (x,1), it would then be measured as 1.414 units from the x-axis.

Edit: There's a typo in your OP. represent represent
#TeamBuLba
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
March 31 2011 20:17 GMT
#7
Sometimes I just hold a ruler, or measuring object like a piece of paper, up to the screen. =)
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
bahunto28
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada262 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-01 14:50:50
March 31 2011 23:27 GMT
#8
On April 01 2011 04:47 garlicface wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2011 16:34 bahunto28 wrote:
2) Understand Cartesian and Polar coordinates

A single point on a 2D map can represented graphically in two manners:

- Cartesian coordiantes represent a point relative to the origin by an x and y position.

- Polar coordinates represent represent the same point by the distance and the angle from the x-axis.

Example: the point 1,1 in Cartesian coordinates is 1.414, 45 degrees in polar coordinates.

Sorry, I think I just need some clarification on this.

Did you mean, "Polar coordinates represent represent the same point by the distance and the angle from the origin"? I can't understand how if you already have a point (x,1), it would then be measured as 1.414 units from the x-axis.

Edit: There's a typo in your OP. represent represent



To clarify, a polar coordinate in form (r,θ) where r is distance from origin and θ is angle from x-axis. I'll update the OP to make it clearer.
meh
winpark
Profile Joined January 2011
Korea (South)68 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-01 15:21:00
April 01 2011 13:54 GMT
#9
I uploaded the english version.
http://www.mediafire.com/?y82uq5bjmkx6qm7

[image loading]
Winpark, author of Daybreak, Whirlwind, and Merry go round, SC2 Mapping team CruX
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 23m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 201
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 7143
Zeus 2513
Snow 155
Bale 52
ZergMaN 16
JulyZerg 14
Icarus 10
League of Legends
JimRising 650
Counter-Strike
summit1g10369
m0e_tv493
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox252
Other Games
WinterStarcraft503
C9.Mang0129
Mew2King47
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 42
• davetesta30
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1371
• HappyZerGling108
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 23m
Afreeca Starleague
4h 23m
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
5h 23m
Monday Night Weeklies
10h 23m
Replay Cast
18h 23m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 4h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 4h
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
PiGosaur Cup
1d 18h
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
BeSt vs Leta
Queen vs Jaedong
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
OSC
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
TriGGeR vs Cure
ByuN vs Rogue
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Maru vs MaxPax
BSL
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
WardiTV Winter 2026
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
Escore Tournament S2: W1
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.