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![[image loading]](http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3391/aztecn.jpg)
So i made a new map with 3 player spots this time. Turns out to be Aztec from Sc1 
I hope u dont mind that i allready made 2 ports now but i really like those sc1 maps and aztec turned out to be perfect, especially with the size issue in mind.
i have to say making a 3 spot map is really hard and takes so long to do. im glad i got it right at the end. spend also a lot time on the doodads. u might find some beautiful spots^^
# Spawns: Three at 12, 5 and 9
# Size: 160x152
# Expansions: 16
# Golds: Three
# XNT: 1 in center
# Tileset: Bel'Shir Jungle
Overview:
+ Show Spoiler +
ignore the doodads at the 9, forgot to remove those :D
Mapanalyzer:
+ Show Spoiler +
Original:
+ Show Spoiler +
Changes:
+ Show Spoiler +
Downloadlink for NA:
[url blocked]
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Lowground mains are just never going to be popular. Theres a huge disadvantage if you stay in your base. The disadvantage should be that you cant expand or flank, adding anothing huge one is a no-no in my head.
The overall layout seems pretty solid, tho im not sure its a complete rotational mirror.
Its just... im not sure... potential is surely there, but its not done in my opinion 
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On February 03 2011 06:40 ihasaKAROT wrote:Lowground mains are just never going to be popular. Theres a huge disadvantage if you stay in your base. The disadvantage should be that you cant expand or flank, adding anothing huge one is a no-no in my head. The overall layout seems pretty solid, tho im not sure its a complete rotational mirror. Its just... im not sure... potential is surely there, but its not done in my opinion
You call it a disadvantage, some people might call it a nice feature that will encourage a different style of gameplay from certain races.
It's nice that someone's added in a lowground-main map that we can at least see how it impacts the game. It'll probably be a more serious drawback than in SC1 because of the lack of vision, but it might be nice. And it looks pretty too, good that you decided to with jungle instead of trying to mix in any sand/desert.
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maybe, maybe not. this map is clearly createt for fast expanding and if u do so there is no low gorund disadvantage anymore. the only point would be pylon warpin or blink, as far as i can think of now.
if i gonna see a big problem while testing i could still change it without a problem.
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this map is excellent, do what you can to get this played in a tourney/showmatch
edit : eh, didnt see the lowground main.... dunno how i feel about that, but we do need some solid three player maps.
maybe either change it to high ground main, or same-level with non-pathable cliffs separating. or close the choke of the natural by a hex or two.
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We've never played Sc2 with lowground mains, so I think its important that its tried out so we can figure out the impact on gameplay.
The one thing I dislike here is the narrowness of the whole map. I would slightly widen pretty much everything, but especially the corridor to the blue third.
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I don't know if it's just me, or does the map look and feel a bit different than the BW counter part? The map looks like it will play out really differently than the BW version (Ive played it many times) considering all the units and spell differences in SCII. We do need to try out new things so overall I like it.
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I think there's a pretty obvious repercussion of low ground mains, which is they give the attacker the advantage instead of the defender - which, if you're contained in your own main would make it ridiculously hard to break out of. If you contain a zerg to one base with early aggression, it will basically make it impossible for them to come back.
Basically, if one player gains even a relatively small advantage early on, the low ground mains will add to that and make the game even more one-sided. Thus, a map like this will probably encourage "cheesier" tactics which probably isn't what you want.
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does look like there are differences from the bw map but judged alone all in all I think it's quite nice.
a shame you made it so small but i guess that's the sc2 idiom
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It might be cool to see how well 3 watchtowers would work, (1 at each of the heavily wooded areas.) looks great from the overview though.
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On February 03 2011 09:26 funcmode wrote:
I think there's a pretty obvious repercussion of low ground mains, which is they give the attacker the advantage instead of the defender - which, if you're contained in your own main would make it ridiculously hard to break out of. If you contain a zerg to one base with early aggression, it will basically make it impossible for them to come back.
Basically, if one player gains even a relatively small advantage early on, the low ground mains will add to that and make the game even more one-sided. Thus, a map like this will probably encourage "cheesier" tactics which probably isn't what you want.
If you contain a zerg to 1 base with early aggression, he's probably going to lose anyway, so that aspect makes no real difference to zerg.
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Also, I would check the tank range for the main at the top position. I am no expert, but it seems that tanks positioned on that little teal beacon could hit the mineral line (or at least the geysers) with sight, while the other two mains are out of range. Perhaps you could move the minerals to the top, closer to ramp (as in the 9oclock position), but it would change the original port.
The 9oclock base may or may not have an advantage being closer to the ramp (although if they are all the same distance, it may just be an illusion). However, the difference could be unnoticeable. Testing would just be needed.
Just my 2cent. Good luck with this awesome map!
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I have to give this a massive thumbs up because Aztec was not only my favorite map to play in Brood War ever, but it's also probably my favorite map to watch ever! I absolutely love this map and I don't even care about possible imbalances (Although I really don't think that it'll be bad at all. Maybe my love for Aztec blinds me o_o)
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I like this map, it looks mostly balanced, though the middle may be Terran favored due to the high ground around the XWT. This clutters the area, making flanks harder, and the XWT shows the Terran player where the Zerg army is making getting the Siege Tanks out of position even more challenging. I'll have to play a few games on this map to say if it is definitely Terran favored or just me getting claustrophobic 
I do not like low ground mains at all, no matter what race I play as. Also, the 9 o'clock main is closer to the ramp than the others, but as long as the bases are equidistant from each other, I guess it's ok. If you can raise the mains two levels, that would make me feel better (:
I'd change the ramps to the 7 o'clock, 3 o'clock, and 11 o'clock expansions to a 2x from the 1x because the 1x feels like a small choke for a fourth expansion, even though it is pretty far away from the main.
The gold expansions do not have an adequate amount of space behind their mineral lines to place turrets (or proxies hehehe), I'd ad maybe one more unit behind them if you can.
Great map, glad we have people in this community with enough guts to make 3-player maps!
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The main bases are not a disadvantage if you like to turtle most of the time. That's your own fault. It highly encourages and almost demands that you get a fast expand (or get an expand asap for that matter). This map looks like it is designed to push the players to the center.
The only problem I can see though is terran like to push with a common 2 tank 8 rine. If a zerg didn't fast expand, the terran could contain him.
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Like I said before, turtling already has its disadvatages in not being able to expand or flank properly. Dont take away the only advantage of a person who wants to turtle, the ability to have the defensive highground.
Its just not going to fly... Can you atleast make a version with a higher ground main? See how that works out? Otherwise the map is pretty damn awesome you know
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On February 03 2011 11:51 Antares777 wrote:I'd change the ramps to the 7 o'clock, 3 o'clock, and 11 o'clock expansions to a 2x from the 1x because the 1x feels like a small choke for a fourth expansion, even though it is pretty far away from the main. The gold expansions do not have an adequate amount of space behind their mineral lines to place turrets (or proxies hehehe), I'd ad maybe one more unit behind them if you can.
i think ur right with that. changed it allready. for the lowground i dont know what to do.
as far as the test games went it wasnt a matter at all.
i guess i need more guys to test it ~~
if someone want to host it on US i will add a download link:
[url blocked]
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I couldn't ever imagine playing on this map when playing vs terran, its just too easy for terran to surround the ramp from the high ground and contain your opponent until you secure a big enough advantage. These kind of ramps worked in brood war, but in sc2 you can't attack units on high ground which makes this a much bigger deal.
Koodos to the rest of the map, but seriously the high ground needs to be changed if you want anyone on a high level to want to play this.
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How do I find this map on EU? A search for Aztec shows up only Aztec Ruins, some random 4P map.
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its called aztec 2 because aztec is somehow not allowed lol
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you made the pathways way too narrow
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Is there a way to get this map on NA? Looks sweet.
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I dont think the low ground mains are that much of a problem, as long as you're not a dirty 1 baser
If you just rally to your natural choke instead of your main choke then doesnt that easily solve the problem. The natural choke looks small enough to defend easily w/o that many disadvantages. And if you do stay on 1 base its kind of your own fault.
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It's an interesting concept that forces out macro games. I just have 2 suggestions.
1. Make the expansion expand more openly to the choke. Siege tanks get set up on the other side of the high ground and don't have a real straight path. The layout forces the player to keep the bulk of his army in the front out in the open to prevent any positional type vT games. That puts units far from the main leaving it open for drops.
2. Since the low ground highly favors quick expansion to prevent from being contained in your main you need to make it safe to fast expand by increasing the ground rush distance. Sort of like Scrap Station does. Even though Terrans can just double proxy rax you, it's something to consider to straight up non-cheese play. I
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To those complaining about the size/small corridors:
Don't. Starcraft 2 needs relatively tight corridors because of the way armies clump up. In SC1 crap is spread so thinly that if there is a tight corridor/ramp it will take 10 minutes for a control group of dragoons to walk though it. On the other hand in SC2 20 marines could walk side by side in a fallopian tube. SC2 Python is so wide open to the point of ridiculousness, while it didn't matter so much in SC1 because a maxed army a moving through the middle would still take up the whole space.
Also, don't knock the lowground main until you've tried it. There's no need theorycrafting for eternity over something that worked in SC1 fine until the map has gone through rigorous testing. It's a port for crying out loud!
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On February 04 2011 16:23 Geovu wrote:
To those complaining about the size/small corridors:
Don't. Starcraft 2 needs relatively tight corridors because of the way armies clump up. In SC1 crap is spread so thinly that if there is a tight corridor/ramp it will take 10 minutes for a control group of dragoons to walk though it. On the other hand in SC2 20 marines could walk side by side in a fallopian tube. SC2 Python is so wide open to the point of ridiculousness, while it didn't matter so much in SC1 because a maxed army a moving through the middle would still take up the whole space.
Also, don't knock the lowground main until you've tried it. There's no need theorycrafting for eternity over something that worked in SC1 fine until the map has gone through rigorous testing. It's a port for crying out loud!
i understand where you are coming from, but the problems with such pathes is not so much the overall narrowness, but the fact that it promotes a slow pushing forward, expnsion, per expansion way too much.
therefore i would suggest to put a wider ramp next to the gold. you can block or halfway block it withalso i think the pah shold get wider the more you move towards the centre.
another addition i would really love is to have a smaller choke at the third and a really big at the fourth (but highground) and an additional ramp from forth down to third.
but this would be a different map.. I guess I will build it myslef
also you need more space in general at nat and/ore third (+ smaller main, use it for bigger gold) and more space behind gold minerals.
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On February 04 2011 16:23 Geovu wrote:
To those complaining about the size/small corridors:
Don't. Starcraft 2 needs relatively tight corridors because of the way armies clump up. In SC1 crap is spread so thinly that if there is a tight corridor/ramp it will take 10 minutes for a control group of dragoons to walk though it. On the other hand in SC2 20 marines could walk side by side in a fallopian tube. SC2 Python is so wide open to the point of ridiculousness, while it didn't matter so much in SC1 because a maxed army a moving through the middle would still take up the whole space.
Also, don't knock the lowground main until you've tried it. There's no need theorycrafting for eternity over something that worked in SC1 fine until the map has gone through rigorous testing. It's a port for crying out loud!
that is not the reason at all for small corridors. map terrain is vitally important to army positioning. having enough space for zerglings to surround, or having a wide area to run away from banelings or storms, for terran. even protoss will not admire running their death ball into a choke covered by a couple siege tanks.
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updatet first post.
-changed the ramps for fourth
-changed ramp position at 10
-changed gold space
-changed mainbase size
**1. Make the expansion expand more openly to the choke. Siege tanks get set up on the other side of the high ground and don't have a real straight path. The layout forces the player to keep the bulk of his army in the front out in the open to prevent any positional type vT games. That puts units far from the main leaving it open for drops.**
maybe u can show me what u mean on a screenshot.
**Since the low ground highly favors quick expansion to prevent from being contained in your main you need to make it safe to fast expand by increasing the ground rush distance**
ground rush distance is 175 which is actually really far. look at xelnaga caverns u got 145.
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looks pretty nice!
i like the layout
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This is sick! Thanks so much
I'm uploading this on SEA if you don't mind ^_^
(I named it "The Aztec")
EDIT: Could do away with the destructible rocks IMO
Dammit it keeps uploading on NA lol T_T.
Ok its uploaded on SEA now :D
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Very good map as for the looks and for the similarity from the BW Aztec.
Great Job!
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Wow, the lighting and terrain choice looks absolutely beautiful! I really like this remake. However the low ground mains do seem to be a problem. PvP would be hell on this map in my opinion.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2308/aztecoverview.jpg)
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