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On January 10 2011 06:05 Serejai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 05:53 ChaosTriggeR wrote:On January 10 2011 05:46 Serejai wrote:On January 09 2011 12:10 ChaosTriggeR wrote:On January 09 2011 10:50 Serejai wrote:
This map is pretty fun but it's just god awful to play in pub games. I'm pretty much 10-0 every game within 5 minutes and everyone on the other team just starts talking shit and eventually rage quits.
I've only had two games get past the 10 minute mark so far, and that's only because I screwed around a lot... ended up 37-0 and killed them entirely with missile launches in one of them.
Do we have enough NA players to get an inhouse game going? Its a relatively new game, give it some time and let people figure the game out. It doesn't work that way. Take League of Legends, for example. It's been out for what... a year? Playing a pub game is like stabbing yourself in the face with a rusty ice pick. The reason for this is simply because it's a team game and requires some form of micro and strategy... which, unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of players lack. Currently I am 39-0 with 517 kills and 6 deaths total. I pick random every game, so I tend to get heroes I'm not familiar with a lot. My first ever time playing this I was 11-0 at the end, and it only took me about 3 minutes to figure out how things worked. The game I just played, I had a teammate who was in his first game. I dragged the game out because I was trying to help him learn a bit. The game ended around the 45 minute mark. As for my teammate? He was 0-13, had not used a single spell all game, didn't know where the heal was and repeatedly died to creeps - even after I explained all of this to him multiple times. Instead of learning, most people tend to rage quit after their first death, whine about how my hero is overpowered, or give some other excuse for why the map is bad. That's just how this kind of game is. It's the same with Battlecraft or any other competitive map. I'd say a good 95% or more of all people who play these maps are just casual players that will never be decent at them. Because of this, public games will never be challenging to play. What needs to be done in order for this to remain competitive is for a channel to be established in patch 1.2 and arrange inhouse matches. I think things will work out fine once that happens. Well you can't be 39-0 because I remember your username and you left the game. I've left multiple games in the first 60 seconds or so due to; a) People leaving the game at the start b) Both of my teammates following me to my lane Thanks for the constructive one-liner reply, though.
No this was like 10+ minutes into the game and I said that because I think you're exaggerating how well you're doing in the game.
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On January 10 2011 06:32 ChaosTriggeR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 06:05 Serejai wrote:On January 10 2011 05:53 ChaosTriggeR wrote:On January 10 2011 05:46 Serejai wrote:On January 09 2011 12:10 ChaosTriggeR wrote:On January 09 2011 10:50 Serejai wrote:
This map is pretty fun but it's just god awful to play in pub games. I'm pretty much 10-0 every game within 5 minutes and everyone on the other team just starts talking shit and eventually rage quits.
I've only had two games get past the 10 minute mark so far, and that's only because I screwed around a lot... ended up 37-0 and killed them entirely with missile launches in one of them.
Do we have enough NA players to get an inhouse game going? Its a relatively new game, give it some time and let people figure the game out. It doesn't work that way. Take League of Legends, for example. It's been out for what... a year? Playing a pub game is like stabbing yourself in the face with a rusty ice pick. The reason for this is simply because it's a team game and requires some form of micro and strategy... which, unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of players lack. Currently I am 39-0 with 517 kills and 6 deaths total. I pick random every game, so I tend to get heroes I'm not familiar with a lot. My first ever time playing this I was 11-0 at the end, and it only took me about 3 minutes to figure out how things worked. The game I just played, I had a teammate who was in his first game. I dragged the game out because I was trying to help him learn a bit. The game ended around the 45 minute mark. As for my teammate? He was 0-13, had not used a single spell all game, didn't know where the heal was and repeatedly died to creeps - even after I explained all of this to him multiple times. Instead of learning, most people tend to rage quit after their first death, whine about how my hero is overpowered, or give some other excuse for why the map is bad. That's just how this kind of game is. It's the same with Battlecraft or any other competitive map. I'd say a good 95% or more of all people who play these maps are just casual players that will never be decent at them. Because of this, public games will never be challenging to play. What needs to be done in order for this to remain competitive is for a channel to be established in patch 1.2 and arrange inhouse matches. I think things will work out fine once that happens. Well you can't be 39-0 because I remember your username and you left the game. I've left multiple games in the first 60 seconds or so due to; a) People leaving the game at the start b) Both of my teammates following me to my lane Thanks for the constructive one-liner reply, though. No this was like 10+ minutes into the game and I said that because I think you're exaggerating how well you're doing in the game.
I'd be glad to upload a replay pack for you. In all honesty, I expected most people posting in this thread to have similar results to mine. It is extremely hard to lose a public game, or even die in one, if you know what you're doing. And considering I've never played DOTA or anything that resembles this aside from a few casual League of Legends matches, I'm sure most people in this thread are better at this than I am. Some of you know spells and stuff... I don't even know a single hero name or ability. I pretty much just memorize what my current hero can do, figure out a rotation, and use it. I really just can't imagine most people in this thread having any trouble whatsoever in a public game.
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On January 10 2011 06:45 Serejai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 06:32 ChaosTriggeR wrote:On January 10 2011 06:05 Serejai wrote:On January 10 2011 05:53 ChaosTriggeR wrote:On January 10 2011 05:46 Serejai wrote:On January 09 2011 12:10 ChaosTriggeR wrote:On January 09 2011 10:50 Serejai wrote:
This map is pretty fun but it's just god awful to play in pub games. I'm pretty much 10-0 every game within 5 minutes and everyone on the other team just starts talking shit and eventually rage quits.
I've only had two games get past the 10 minute mark so far, and that's only because I screwed around a lot... ended up 37-0 and killed them entirely with missile launches in one of them.
Do we have enough NA players to get an inhouse game going? Its a relatively new game, give it some time and let people figure the game out. It doesn't work that way. Take League of Legends, for example. It's been out for what... a year? Playing a pub game is like stabbing yourself in the face with a rusty ice pick. The reason for this is simply because it's a team game and requires some form of micro and strategy... which, unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of players lack. Currently I am 39-0 with 517 kills and 6 deaths total. I pick random every game, so I tend to get heroes I'm not familiar with a lot. My first ever time playing this I was 11-0 at the end, and it only took me about 3 minutes to figure out how things worked. The game I just played, I had a teammate who was in his first game. I dragged the game out because I was trying to help him learn a bit. The game ended around the 45 minute mark. As for my teammate? He was 0-13, had not used a single spell all game, didn't know where the heal was and repeatedly died to creeps - even after I explained all of this to him multiple times. Instead of learning, most people tend to rage quit after their first death, whine about how my hero is overpowered, or give some other excuse for why the map is bad. That's just how this kind of game is. It's the same with Battlecraft or any other competitive map. I'd say a good 95% or more of all people who play these maps are just casual players that will never be decent at them. Because of this, public games will never be challenging to play. What needs to be done in order for this to remain competitive is for a channel to be established in patch 1.2 and arrange inhouse matches. I think things will work out fine once that happens. Well you can't be 39-0 because I remember your username and you left the game. I've left multiple games in the first 60 seconds or so due to; a) People leaving the game at the start b) Both of my teammates following me to my lane Thanks for the constructive one-liner reply, though. No this was like 10+ minutes into the game and I said that because I think you're exaggerating how well you're doing in the game. I'd be glad to upload a replay pack for you. In all honesty, I expected most people posting in this thread to have similar results to mine. It is extremely hard to lose a public game, or even die in one, if you know what you're doing. And considering I've never played DOTA or anything that resembles this aside from a few casual League of Legends matches, I'm sure most people in this thread are better at this than I am. Some of you know spells and stuff... I don't even know a single hero name or ability. I pretty much just memorize what my current hero can do, figure out a rotation, and use it. I really just can't imagine most people in this thread having any trouble whatsoever in a public game.
once again.
your all right honey.
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On January 10 2011 06:45 Serejai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 06:32 ChaosTriggeR wrote:On January 10 2011 06:05 Serejai wrote:On January 10 2011 05:53 ChaosTriggeR wrote:On January 10 2011 05:46 Serejai wrote:On January 09 2011 12:10 ChaosTriggeR wrote:On January 09 2011 10:50 Serejai wrote:
This map is pretty fun but it's just god awful to play in pub games. I'm pretty much 10-0 every game within 5 minutes and everyone on the other team just starts talking shit and eventually rage quits.
I've only had two games get past the 10 minute mark so far, and that's only because I screwed around a lot... ended up 37-0 and killed them entirely with missile launches in one of them.
Do we have enough NA players to get an inhouse game going? Its a relatively new game, give it some time and let people figure the game out. It doesn't work that way. Take League of Legends, for example. It's been out for what... a year? Playing a pub game is like stabbing yourself in the face with a rusty ice pick. The reason for this is simply because it's a team game and requires some form of micro and strategy... which, unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of players lack. Currently I am 39-0 with 517 kills and 6 deaths total. I pick random every game, so I tend to get heroes I'm not familiar with a lot. My first ever time playing this I was 11-0 at the end, and it only took me about 3 minutes to figure out how things worked. The game I just played, I had a teammate who was in his first game. I dragged the game out because I was trying to help him learn a bit. The game ended around the 45 minute mark. As for my teammate? He was 0-13, had not used a single spell all game, didn't know where the heal was and repeatedly died to creeps - even after I explained all of this to him multiple times. Instead of learning, most people tend to rage quit after their first death, whine about how my hero is overpowered, or give some other excuse for why the map is bad. That's just how this kind of game is. It's the same with Battlecraft or any other competitive map. I'd say a good 95% or more of all people who play these maps are just casual players that will never be decent at them. Because of this, public games will never be challenging to play. What needs to be done in order for this to remain competitive is for a channel to be established in patch 1.2 and arrange inhouse matches. I think things will work out fine once that happens. Well you can't be 39-0 because I remember your username and you left the game. I've left multiple games in the first 60 seconds or so due to; a) People leaving the game at the start b) Both of my teammates following me to my lane Thanks for the constructive one-liner reply, though. No this was like 10+ minutes into the game and I said that because I think you're exaggerating how well you're doing in the game. I'd be glad to upload a replay pack for you. In all honesty, I expected most people posting in this thread to have similar results to mine. It is extremely hard to lose a public game, or even die in one, if you know what you're doing. And considering I've never played DOTA or anything that resembles this aside from a few casual League of Legends matches, I'm sure most people in this thread are better at this than I am. Some of you know spells and stuff... I don't even know a single hero name or ability. I pretty much just memorize what my current hero can do, figure out a rotation, and use it. I really just can't imagine most people in this thread having any trouble whatsoever in a public game.
Ok, back to your original point. What you're suggesting is kind of inevitable. There already is a frequent players list on the first page and with the addition of chat channels it's almost certain that someone would start a channel for this game and its a good idea for people who want to play with other good people.
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I think changing the tips would greatly improve the level of play
I just come from a game where I was lvl 24 while everybody else was 12 simply because I was was destroying all the green boxes and trucks
The Tip #4 telling players to put points in mana is a little bit misleading
Putting 5 minerals in mana and the rest in attack completely changes how well you will do, same thing with destroying the green boxes/truck
And that's stuff anyone can understand and do, they just don't know it
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The game has now made it to page one of the NA list. =)
EDIT: Now it's slightly below. But it's getting there!
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Yeah i think i should get the game tips at the loading screen changed to a general build
ex) mana 5 -> all atk up (speed if you need in between these)
That is a good build for most of the characters. Ofcourse in high level, heroes have different builds and these kinds of information it's hard to find unless u experiment.
I hope the 1.2 chat channel helps arrange inhouse games.
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Since it's been mentioned in this thread, and I have a lot of pubs ask me in my games... here's a replay + rough guide for the Firebat guy.
As for the guide part, you start the game like you should every hero by getting +1 ATK UP. This helps you farm the experience crates/trucks faster, which you'll be doing until level 3. Meanwhile, every level up just stick your points into ATK UP. Regardless of what hero you play, you should never really get anything other than ATK UP at the start. Spells are just too weak and too mana intensive to be worthwhile at this point.
Once you get low on health or get 800 minerals, go heal and buy the +ATK upgrade. Back to laning until you get 750 minerals, then you want to buy the mana regen upgrade. Again, this applies to pretty much every hero in the game currently. This is by far the most beneficial opening for nearly all of them.
From this point on you really need to play it by feel. If the opponent does a lot of damage, you should use your skill points on health. If not, use them on damage. You shouldn't really need anything but health and ATK UP the entire game. Speed isn't very useful for the Firebat due to his teleport+slow. Make sure to pick up his spells at some point... you can usually wait a while for these.
Your vespene should go into +mana after you buy +ATK and +mana regen (first one). I would probably buy two +mana, then buy another +mana regen. You shouldn't need to buy health, but can if the other team has a lot of high damage mages.
As for actually playing the character... he's pretty weak early game so just focus on farming. Late game he can pretty much instantly kill any mage, and take out most melee in seconds with minimal damage taken.
Generally you're going to use your two flamethrower ability things (F and V, I think) from range. Then you teleport in (X) and spam C. You can toss in another V if you have the mana for it. This pretty much kills anything. If it doesn't and they run away, your teleport+snare is really overpowered and broken with it's low cooldown so you can spam it indefinitely and use C every time you land.
I'm not sure what else to say... this character is really weak early game, but is an extremely fast leveler and completely dominates late game. It's overly simple to play and honestly borderline overpowered because of the spammable teleport+snare and spammable AOE.
Oh, and one other thing that applies to any hero with towers. I can't count the number of kills I get by trapping somebody on a ledge with turrets/spinecrawlers/etc. Use them to control your opponent's movement and you will pretty much dominate high ground fights.
As for the replay... this is a 51 minute game but I'd recommend watching it all on 2x at most with camera set to me. I make a lot of stupid mistakes as it's late and I'm tired, but I'm happy with the results.
I ended the game something like 24-1 (died once to a lag spike) and was level 25 before anyone else was level 14. It turned into a 2v2 about halfway through, so my kill count is a tad low... both other times I've played as the Firebat I had nearly 30 kills at the end.
Replay - http://www.mediafire.com/?y1ap0t45bfl99d5
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On January 10 2011 14:48 Serejai wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Since it's been mentioned in this thread, and I have a lot of pubs ask me in my games... here's a replay + rough guide for the Firebat guy. As for the guide part, you start the game like you should every hero by getting +1 ATK UP. This helps you farm the experience crates/trucks faster, which you'll be doing until level 3. Meanwhile, every level up just stick your points into ATK UP. Regardless of what hero you play, you should never really get anything other than ATK UP at the start. Spells are just too weak and too mana intensive to be worthwhile at this point. Once you get low on health or get 800 minerals, go heal and buy the +ATK upgrade. Back to laning until you get 750 minerals, then you want to buy the mana regen upgrade. Again, this applies to pretty much every hero in the game currently. This is by far the most beneficial opening for nearly all of them. From this point on you really need to play it by feel. If the opponent does a lot of damage, you should use your skill points on health. If not, use them on damage. You shouldn't really need anything but health and ATK UP the entire game. Speed isn't very useful for the Firebat due to his teleport+slow. Make sure to pick up his spells at some point... you can usually wait a while for these. Your vespene should go into +mana after you buy +ATK and +mana regen (first one). I would probably buy two +mana, then buy another +mana regen. You shouldn't need to buy health, but can if the other team has a lot of high damage mages. As for actually playing the character... he's pretty weak early game so just focus on farming. Late game he can pretty much instantly kill any mage, and take out most melee in seconds with minimal damage taken. Generally you're going to use your two flamethrower ability things (F and V, I think) from range. Then you teleport in (X) and spam C. You can toss in another V if you have the mana for it. This pretty much kills anything. If it doesn't and they run away, your teleport+snare is really overpowered and broken with it's low cooldown so you can spam it indefinitely and use C every time you land. I'm not sure what else to say... this character is really weak early game, but is an extremely fast leveler and completely dominates late game. It's overly simple to play and honestly borderline overpowered because of the spammable teleport+snare and spammable AOE. Oh, and one other thing that applies to any hero with towers. I can't count the number of kills I get by trapping somebody on a ledge with turrets/spinecrawlers/etc. Use them to control your opponent's movement and you will pretty much dominate high ground fights. As for the replay... this is a 51 minute game but I'd recommend watching it all on 2x at most with camera set to me. I make a lot of stupid mistakes as it's late and I'm tired, but I'm happy with the results. I ended the game something like 24-1 (died once to a lag spike) and was level 25 before anyone else was level 14. It turned into a 2v2 about halfway through, so my kill count is a tad low... both other times I've played as the Firebat I had nearly 30 kills at the end. Replay - http://www.mediafire.com/?y1ap0t45bfl99d5
Thank you for the tips and the replay - I generally forgo the +attack item as I find the 800 minerals better spent on mana or shields - but you seem to be better so I'll give what you advocate a try.
I don't agree with him being OP though. He's mid-tier in Korea - if he really was overpowered more people would be using him, wouldn't they?
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On January 10 2011 15:09 Moonloop wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 14:48 Serejai wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Since it's been mentioned in this thread, and I have a lot of pubs ask me in my games... here's a replay + rough guide for the Firebat guy. As for the guide part, you start the game like you should every hero by getting +1 ATK UP. This helps you farm the experience crates/trucks faster, which you'll be doing until level 3. Meanwhile, every level up just stick your points into ATK UP. Regardless of what hero you play, you should never really get anything other than ATK UP at the start. Spells are just too weak and too mana intensive to be worthwhile at this point. Once you get low on health or get 800 minerals, go heal and buy the +ATK upgrade. Back to laning until you get 750 minerals, then you want to buy the mana regen upgrade. Again, this applies to pretty much every hero in the game currently. This is by far the most beneficial opening for nearly all of them. From this point on you really need to play it by feel. If the opponent does a lot of damage, you should use your skill points on health. If not, use them on damage. You shouldn't really need anything but health and ATK UP the entire game. Speed isn't very useful for the Firebat due to his teleport+slow. Make sure to pick up his spells at some point... you can usually wait a while for these. Your vespene should go into +mana after you buy +ATK and +mana regen (first one). I would probably buy two +mana, then buy another +mana regen. You shouldn't need to buy health, but can if the other team has a lot of high damage mages. As for actually playing the character... he's pretty weak early game so just focus on farming. Late game he can pretty much instantly kill any mage, and take out most melee in seconds with minimal damage taken. Generally you're going to use your two flamethrower ability things (F and V, I think) from range. Then you teleport in (X) and spam C. You can toss in another V if you have the mana for it. This pretty much kills anything. If it doesn't and they run away, your teleport+snare is really overpowered and broken with it's low cooldown so you can spam it indefinitely and use C every time you land. I'm not sure what else to say... this character is really weak early game, but is an extremely fast leveler and completely dominates late game. It's overly simple to play and honestly borderline overpowered because of the spammable teleport+snare and spammable AOE. Oh, and one other thing that applies to any hero with towers. I can't count the number of kills I get by trapping somebody on a ledge with turrets/spinecrawlers/etc. Use them to control your opponent's movement and you will pretty much dominate high ground fights. As for the replay... this is a 51 minute game but I'd recommend watching it all on 2x at most with camera set to me. I make a lot of stupid mistakes as it's late and I'm tired, but I'm happy with the results. I ended the game something like 24-1 (died once to a lag spike) and was level 25 before anyone else was level 14. It turned into a 2v2 about halfway through, so my kill count is a tad low... both other times I've played as the Firebat I had nearly 30 kills at the end. Replay - http://www.mediafire.com/?y1ap0t45bfl99d5 Thank you for the tips and the replay - I generally forgo the +attack item as I find the 800 minerals better spent on mana or shields - but you seem to be better so I'll give what you advocate a try. I don't agree with him being OP though. He's mid-tier in Korea - if he really was overpowered more people would be using him, wouldn't they?
Possibly, yes. The hero isn't overpowered. In fact, I'd agree he's a mid tier hero. His spammable teleport+snare is, though. It can pretty much guarantee that nobody gets away from you, and is invaluable in team fights for that very reason. By the time the snare wears off, your spell is off CD. And you don't generally need +speed because you can simply use stim if your opponent outruns you while snared.
Also, use your judgement on shop upgrades. The +ATK really speeds up farming early-game. It basically doubles your damage. It's usefulness wears off later when you stop using your autoattack and start relying on spells more, but by then you should be ahead in level and income anyway because of the increased farming speed, and your +ATK upgrade ends up paying for itself.
However, you can skip it for mana regen if you want to get your spells out faster. You'll lose a few early game kills, though, I think.
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On January 10 2011 14:48 Serejai wrote:Since it's been mentioned in this thread, and I have a lot of pubs ask me in my games... here's a replay + rough guide for the Firebat guy. As for the guide part, you start the game like you should every hero by getting +1 ATK UP. This helps you farm the experience crates/trucks faster, which you'll be doing until level 3. Meanwhile, every level up just stick your points into ATK UP. Regardless of what hero you play, you should never really get anything other than ATK UP at the start. Spells are just too weak and too mana intensive to be worthwhile at this point. Once you get low on health or get 800 minerals, go heal and buy the +ATK upgrade. Back to laning until you get 750 minerals, then you want to buy the mana regen upgrade. Again, this applies to pretty much every hero in the game currently. This is by far the most beneficial opening for nearly all of them. From this point on you really need to play it by feel. If the opponent does a lot of damage, you should use your skill points on health. If not, use them on damage. You shouldn't really need anything but health and ATK UP the entire game. Speed isn't very useful for the Firebat due to his teleport+slow. Make sure to pick up his spells at some point... you can usually wait a while for these. Your vespene should go into +mana after you buy +ATK and +mana regen (first one). I would probably buy two +mana, then buy another +mana regen. You shouldn't need to buy health, but can if the other team has a lot of high damage mages. As for actually playing the character... he's pretty weak early game so just focus on farming. Late game he can pretty much instantly kill any mage, and take out most melee in seconds with minimal damage taken. Generally you're going to use your two flamethrower ability things (F and V, I think) from range. Then you teleport in (X) and spam C. You can toss in another V if you have the mana for it. This pretty much kills anything. If it doesn't and they run away, your teleport+snare is really overpowered and broken with it's low cooldown so you can spam it indefinitely and use C every time you land. I'm not sure what else to say... this character is really weak early game, but is an extremely fast leveler and completely dominates late game. It's overly simple to play and honestly borderline overpowered because of the spammable teleport+snare and spammable AOE. Oh, and one other thing that applies to any hero with towers. I can't count the number of kills I get by trapping somebody on a ledge with turrets/spinecrawlers/etc. Use them to control your opponent's movement and you will pretty much dominate high ground fights. As for the replay... this is a 51 minute game but I'd recommend watching it all on 2x at most with camera set to me. I make a lot of stupid mistakes as it's late and I'm tired, but I'm happy with the results. I ended the game something like 24-1 (died once to a lag spike) and was level 25 before anyone else was level 14. It turned into a 2v2 about halfway through, so my kill count is a tad low... both other times I've played as the Firebat I had nearly 30 kills at the end. Replay - http://www.mediafire.com/?y1ap0t45bfl99d5 5 into mana with first cash into mana pot or mana regen is much more powerful
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I think it can be useful. But you won't get early kills since your mana is low and cannot benefit from mana potion. But hunting will be fast (trucks melt fast when you buy ATK item)
Also be sure to stand on the side part of marine creeps when you are doing normal attack.
If you look at Force Fire's attack motion, he attacks with a flame thrower and it's very long.
You can hit multiple (actually the whole 1st group of marines) creeps when you stand next
to them from side or that specific angle.
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On January 10 2011 15:22 justjuice wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 14:48 Serejai wrote:Since it's been mentioned in this thread, and I have a lot of pubs ask me in my games... here's a replay + rough guide for the Firebat guy. As for the guide part, you start the game like you should every hero by getting +1 ATK UP. This helps you farm the experience crates/trucks faster, which you'll be doing until level 3. Meanwhile, every level up just stick your points into ATK UP. Regardless of what hero you play, you should never really get anything other than ATK UP at the start. Spells are just too weak and too mana intensive to be worthwhile at this point. Once you get low on health or get 800 minerals, go heal and buy the +ATK upgrade. Back to laning until you get 750 minerals, then you want to buy the mana regen upgrade. Again, this applies to pretty much every hero in the game currently. This is by far the most beneficial opening for nearly all of them. From this point on you really need to play it by feel. If the opponent does a lot of damage, you should use your skill points on health. If not, use them on damage. You shouldn't really need anything but health and ATK UP the entire game. Speed isn't very useful for the Firebat due to his teleport+slow. Make sure to pick up his spells at some point... you can usually wait a while for these. Your vespene should go into +mana after you buy +ATK and +mana regen (first one). I would probably buy two +mana, then buy another +mana regen. You shouldn't need to buy health, but can if the other team has a lot of high damage mages. As for actually playing the character... he's pretty weak early game so just focus on farming. Late game he can pretty much instantly kill any mage, and take out most melee in seconds with minimal damage taken. Generally you're going to use your two flamethrower ability things (F and V, I think) from range. Then you teleport in (X) and spam C. You can toss in another V if you have the mana for it. This pretty much kills anything. If it doesn't and they run away, your teleport+snare is really overpowered and broken with it's low cooldown so you can spam it indefinitely and use C every time you land. I'm not sure what else to say... this character is really weak early game, but is an extremely fast leveler and completely dominates late game. It's overly simple to play and honestly borderline overpowered because of the spammable teleport+snare and spammable AOE. Oh, and one other thing that applies to any hero with towers. I can't count the number of kills I get by trapping somebody on a ledge with turrets/spinecrawlers/etc. Use them to control your opponent's movement and you will pretty much dominate high ground fights. As for the replay... this is a 51 minute game but I'd recommend watching it all on 2x at most with camera set to me. I make a lot of stupid mistakes as it's late and I'm tired, but I'm happy with the results. I ended the game something like 24-1 (died once to a lag spike) and was level 25 before anyone else was level 14. It turned into a 2v2 about halfway through, so my kill count is a tad low... both other times I've played as the Firebat I had nearly 30 kills at the end. Replay - http://www.mediafire.com/?y1ap0t45bfl99d5 5 into mana with first cash into mana pot or mana regen is much more powerful
I don't entirely understand what you're suggesting but I'll take a shot;
If you're suggesting to put your first 5 skill points into mana, that's a terrible idea. You don't need mana at all late game because you get more than enough from the shop upgrades, and you won't be able to max out health +ATK UP if you spend those 5 points on mana. Whatever possible gain you get at the start of the game from doing so is negated in the late game by your lower health or damage, and excess/wasted mana pool.
Mana pots (and health) are also wasted income before late game, as that money is much better spent on permanently increasing your health or mana. If you play smart, you have very little risk of dying early game despite how weak the Firebat is. Not to mention without +ATK UP your damage will be too low to kill anyone (or anything - trucks and higher end creeps), so all the mana in the world wouldn't really help you.
The idea is to kill someone within 3-4 casts. By going mana too early, it would take you twice as many spells and the Firebat is too fragile early-game to have the luxury of attacking for that long. You have to get in, do your damage, and get out ASAP as you have no defensive capabilities at all.
Also, as said above make sure to use the splash damage. The Firebat has a range of 2, so you want to attack the creep behind the one you're trying to damage so you hit 2 rows at a time. Also note that the Firebat cannot attack while moving because of the attack animation. If you try your target will be out of range before the animation has a chance to go off.
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On January 10 2011 15:30 Serejai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 15:22 justjuice wrote:On January 10 2011 14:48 Serejai wrote:Since it's been mentioned in this thread, and I have a lot of pubs ask me in my games... here's a replay + rough guide for the Firebat guy. As for the guide part, you start the game like you should every hero by getting +1 ATK UP. This helps you farm the experience crates/trucks faster, which you'll be doing until level 3. Meanwhile, every level up just stick your points into ATK UP. Regardless of what hero you play, you should never really get anything other than ATK UP at the start. Spells are just too weak and too mana intensive to be worthwhile at this point. Once you get low on health or get 800 minerals, go heal and buy the +ATK upgrade. Back to laning until you get 750 minerals, then you want to buy the mana regen upgrade. Again, this applies to pretty much every hero in the game currently. This is by far the most beneficial opening for nearly all of them. From this point on you really need to play it by feel. If the opponent does a lot of damage, you should use your skill points on health. If not, use them on damage. You shouldn't really need anything but health and ATK UP the entire game. Speed isn't very useful for the Firebat due to his teleport+slow. Make sure to pick up his spells at some point... you can usually wait a while for these. Your vespene should go into +mana after you buy +ATK and +mana regen (first one). I would probably buy two +mana, then buy another +mana regen. You shouldn't need to buy health, but can if the other team has a lot of high damage mages. As for actually playing the character... he's pretty weak early game so just focus on farming. Late game he can pretty much instantly kill any mage, and take out most melee in seconds with minimal damage taken. Generally you're going to use your two flamethrower ability things (F and V, I think) from range. Then you teleport in (X) and spam C. You can toss in another V if you have the mana for it. This pretty much kills anything. If it doesn't and they run away, your teleport+snare is really overpowered and broken with it's low cooldown so you can spam it indefinitely and use C every time you land. I'm not sure what else to say... this character is really weak early game, but is an extremely fast leveler and completely dominates late game. It's overly simple to play and honestly borderline overpowered because of the spammable teleport+snare and spammable AOE. Oh, and one other thing that applies to any hero with towers. I can't count the number of kills I get by trapping somebody on a ledge with turrets/spinecrawlers/etc. Use them to control your opponent's movement and you will pretty much dominate high ground fights. As for the replay... this is a 51 minute game but I'd recommend watching it all on 2x at most with camera set to me. I make a lot of stupid mistakes as it's late and I'm tired, but I'm happy with the results. I ended the game something like 24-1 (died once to a lag spike) and was level 25 before anyone else was level 14. It turned into a 2v2 about halfway through, so my kill count is a tad low... both other times I've played as the Firebat I had nearly 30 kills at the end. Replay - http://www.mediafire.com/?y1ap0t45bfl99d5 5 into mana with first cash into mana pot or mana regen is much more powerful I don't entirely understand what you're suggesting but I'll take a shot; If you're suggesting to put your first 5 skill points into mana, that's a terrible idea. You don't need mana at all late game because you get more than enough from the shop upgrades, and you won't be able to max out health +ATK UP if you spend those 5 points on mana. Whatever possible gain you get at the start of the game from doing so is negated in the late game by your lower health or damage, and excess/wasted mana pool. Mana pots (and health) are also wasted income before late game, as that money is much better spent on permanently increasing your health or mana. If you play smart, you have very little risk of dying early game despite how weak the Firebat is. Not to mention without +ATK UP your damage will be too low to kill anyone (or anything - trucks and higher end creeps), so all the mana in the world wouldn't really help you. The idea is to kill someone within 3-4 casts. By going mana too early, it would take you twice as many spells and the Firebat is too fragile early-game to have the luxury of attacking for that long. You have to get in, do your damage, and get out ASAP as you have no defensive capabilities at all. Also, as said above make sure to use the splash damage. The Firebat has a range of 2, so you want to attack the creep behind the one you're trying to damage so you hit 2 rows at a time. Also note that the Firebat cannot attack while moving because of the attack animation. If you try your target will be out of range before the animation has a chance to go off. Sorry mate but with you're build you will not have any mana early and will get crushed early game in a non pub and will not be able to get kills mid game without mana pots
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I also do a +5 into mana and then start to focus on attack and health. The reasoning behind this is since every hero has AOE attacks by 3 points into mana I behind it much more effective to level up via spells and to spend early gas into mana regen to make this more effective. In my opinion it takes less time to kill enemies through spells than to use the actual attack.
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I played against Serejai while I was trying out Ron (name is Phobos) and in my opinion, the way he opened with the +ATK upgrade and all skill points in ATK was pretty devastating, early game heroes have like 1-1.5k health and he was doing 200+ with his normal attack. With the head butt, I was getting smoked VERY fast.
I disagree about trying this opening with all heroes though, some heroes do not have a very powerful normal attack and have pretty deadly mp spells early on. With most melee heroes, I can see this to be a very valid build. Not using those 5 points into mp means either 10% damage reduction through armor or 1500 hp which is a huge difference.
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searching on eu now need 2 more ppl :x
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OverLasher 221
US
Pretty much bored of pubstomping teams on my own and I want to see how higher tier games are. Games no fun when opposing team has no idea how to play
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On January 10 2011 16:12 justjuice wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 15:30 Serejai wrote:On January 10 2011 15:22 justjuice wrote:On January 10 2011 14:48 Serejai wrote:Since it's been mentioned in this thread, and I have a lot of pubs ask me in my games... here's a replay + rough guide for the Firebat guy. As for the guide part, you start the game like you should every hero by getting +1 ATK UP. This helps you farm the experience crates/trucks faster, which you'll be doing until level 3. Meanwhile, every level up just stick your points into ATK UP. Regardless of what hero you play, you should never really get anything other than ATK UP at the start. Spells are just too weak and too mana intensive to be worthwhile at this point. Once you get low on health or get 800 minerals, go heal and buy the +ATK upgrade. Back to laning until you get 750 minerals, then you want to buy the mana regen upgrade. Again, this applies to pretty much every hero in the game currently. This is by far the most beneficial opening for nearly all of them. From this point on you really need to play it by feel. If the opponent does a lot of damage, you should use your skill points on health. If not, use them on damage. You shouldn't really need anything but health and ATK UP the entire game. Speed isn't very useful for the Firebat due to his teleport+slow. Make sure to pick up his spells at some point... you can usually wait a while for these. Your vespene should go into +mana after you buy +ATK and +mana regen (first one). I would probably buy two +mana, then buy another +mana regen. You shouldn't need to buy health, but can if the other team has a lot of high damage mages. As for actually playing the character... he's pretty weak early game so just focus on farming. Late game he can pretty much instantly kill any mage, and take out most melee in seconds with minimal damage taken. Generally you're going to use your two flamethrower ability things (F and V, I think) from range. Then you teleport in (X) and spam C. You can toss in another V if you have the mana for it. This pretty much kills anything. If it doesn't and they run away, your teleport+snare is really overpowered and broken with it's low cooldown so you can spam it indefinitely and use C every time you land. I'm not sure what else to say... this character is really weak early game, but is an extremely fast leveler and completely dominates late game. It's overly simple to play and honestly borderline overpowered because of the spammable teleport+snare and spammable AOE. Oh, and one other thing that applies to any hero with towers. I can't count the number of kills I get by trapping somebody on a ledge with turrets/spinecrawlers/etc. Use them to control your opponent's movement and you will pretty much dominate high ground fights. As for the replay... this is a 51 minute game but I'd recommend watching it all on 2x at most with camera set to me. I make a lot of stupid mistakes as it's late and I'm tired, but I'm happy with the results. I ended the game something like 24-1 (died once to a lag spike) and was level 25 before anyone else was level 14. It turned into a 2v2 about halfway through, so my kill count is a tad low... both other times I've played as the Firebat I had nearly 30 kills at the end. Replay - http://www.mediafire.com/?y1ap0t45bfl99d5 5 into mana with first cash into mana pot or mana regen is much more powerful I don't entirely understand what you're suggesting but I'll take a shot; If you're suggesting to put your first 5 skill points into mana, that's a terrible idea. You don't need mana at all late game because you get more than enough from the shop upgrades, and you won't be able to max out health +ATK UP if you spend those 5 points on mana. Whatever possible gain you get at the start of the game from doing so is negated in the late game by your lower health or damage, and excess/wasted mana pool. Mana pots (and health) are also wasted income before late game, as that money is much better spent on permanently increasing your health or mana. If you play smart, you have very little risk of dying early game despite how weak the Firebat is. Not to mention without +ATK UP your damage will be too low to kill anyone (or anything - trucks and higher end creeps), so all the mana in the world wouldn't really help you. The idea is to kill someone within 3-4 casts. By going mana too early, it would take you twice as many spells and the Firebat is too fragile early-game to have the luxury of attacking for that long. You have to get in, do your damage, and get out ASAP as you have no defensive capabilities at all. Also, as said above make sure to use the splash damage. The Firebat has a range of 2, so you want to attack the creep behind the one you're trying to damage so you hit 2 rows at a time. Also note that the Firebat cannot attack while moving because of the attack animation. If you try your target will be out of range before the animation has a chance to go off. Sorry mate but with you're build you will not have any mana early and will get crushed early game in a non pub and will not be able to get kills mid game without mana pots
Again, without +ATK UP at the start you won't do enough damage to kill anything, including experience crates/trucks. Doesn't matter how much mana you have. Not to mention you're wasting 5 stat points for late game, as you're unable to max health or ATK UP by putting those points into mana, which you will not need.
While I'm doing something like 70 DPS at level 3 with my autoattack, plus having stim if needed... you're doing like 50 DPS with spells and relying on your mana to not run out. Firebat is a late game hero so gimping your late game AND early game both by going mana doesn't seem rational at all.
I'm curious what your experience level is, though. I play on both the NA and KR servers and have been in a couple non-pub KR matches, and nobody has ever gone mana on Firebat.
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Woohoo~~
English version is getting a big update before the korean version. 2 new characters will be added soon.
Reason why is because there's a big tournament scheduled on this sunday. So Maxstorm can't update before the tournament is over. He is going to update at US and probably EU version first.
Abel + Arcane coming soon.
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EPT
