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Ryalnos
United States1946 Posts
Since half of a void ray's DPS comes from charge, feedback/emp/etc. are great against it. Prismatic beam has a short range, so getting heavy range upgrades can allow you to kite void rays efficiently (.1 or .2 extra speed does not allow you to catch up to another ship quickly). Further, void rays are only strong if they're given free range to farm. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On December 15 2010 23:34 Ryalnos wrote: There are several counters to void rays that I can think of. Since half of a void ray's DPS comes from charge, feedback/emp/etc. are great against it. Prismatic beam has a short range, so getting heavy range upgrades can allow you to kite void rays efficiently (.1 or .2 extra speed does not allow you to catch up to another ship quickly). Further, void rays are only strong if they're given free range to farm. Anything is strong if given free range to farm. | ||
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Ryalnos
United States1946 Posts
On December 16 2010 01:24 Sufficiency wrote: Anything is strong if given free range to farm. Of course, but void ray dps scales most with farming. One reason is that its 'extra attacks' upgrade stacks multiplicatively @ 18% (2 -> 2.44 -> 2.9-7>3.63->4.42 attacks/second) rather than simply adding an attack (like 5->6->7->8 missiles). The key is that Void Rays begin weak as hell in the early game (though they're always squishy) and if left alone they become 'OP omgggg' in the late game. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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Edmon
United Kingdom259 Posts
On December 14 2010 02:43 Rflcrx wrote: Nah, cloak -> gg (please play the game a bit before you write something like "autowin") oh and a nuke forces your entire group to abort any sort of attack and scatter, then get picked off easily because you only have vrs. Plus your antifighter capabilities are so awful that you cannot assault near the enemy base. So yeah..no chance you can win with that awful strategy against any kind of decent team. Your ignorance of how the game works astounds me. You should take your own advice and play the game before you comment. Cloak is only used to "dodge" specials in high level play. Staying cloaked is massive waste of energy and your energy will not regenerate while it's active. Plus if you bought cloak with your starting money you will literally have -nothing- else. And the guy that suggested nuke. Seriously? Have you even played the game. You start with 250 minerals. Nuke is 400. There is only one way to mitigate the strategy that I have seen and that is vortex, but it will likely only come after you've made several V-Ray gank-kills and thus it will be too late. | ||
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Rflcrx
503 Posts
On December 16 2010 04:39 Edmon wrote: Cloak is only used to "dodge" specials in high level play. Nope. On December 16 2010 04:39 Edmon wrote: Staying cloaked is massive waste of energy Who said anything about staying cloaked? Even a short cloak is more than enough to turn around and run away/losing the focus On December 16 2010 04:39 Edmon wrote: and your energy will not regenerate while it's active. Now we at least know you played before (was a bit unsure). On December 16 2010 04:39 Edmon wrote: Plus if you bought cloak with your starting money you will literally have -nothing- else. Who said anything about getting cloak with your starting money? On December 16 2010 04:39 Edmon wrote: There is only one way to mitigate the strategy There are plenty of strategies that easily beat it. Play some more, in time you will get some basic understanding of the game. | ||
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Hinanawi
United States2250 Posts
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SchAmToo
United States1141 Posts
On December 16 2010 06:14 Hinanawi wrote: Regardless of whether void rays are OP or not, they're really stupid and I wish they would be removed. They're not fun to play, and they're not fun to play against. I completely disagree. The voidray is great for making people regret going ALL the way to the other sides' base and farming because you can trail right behind them and kill / heavily damage them. The voidray is easily countered in a massive fight, if your teammates know anything they, and you, should focus one of the voids down first so you can keep fighting until you're in the yellow and not worry about being followed home by a void and possibly dying. | ||
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quantumslip
United States188 Posts
On December 16 2010 06:14 Hinanawi wrote: Regardless of whether void rays are OP or not, they're really stupid and I wish they would be removed. They're not fun to play, and they're not fun to play against. Err yea, they're not stupid and require a different play style to work with. You can't treat the VR as a BC, Carrier, etc. I actually enjoy playing with the VR myself. Don't like it? Play with the other ships instead. | ||
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Newbistic
China2912 Posts
On December 15 2010 07:10 thegamer wrote: Ya gotta admit that void rays are OP. Especially because it is so hard to run away from them because they have: -Very fast speed that allows them to chase you down, especially with flux vanes. This also makes it pretty much impossible to chase down a void ray. -Ridiculous dps with prismatic beam that can be doubled with their special ability -And an imbalanced leeway range that requires no micro at all. Pretty much if you encounter a void ray 1 on 1 ur screwed. The only way to escape a void ray is to have some team members come and have both of you attack it to force it to retreat. If you keep an eye on the minimap and manage your distance VR's are nothing to be afraid of, especially 1v1. Regular ships outrange VR's and aren't that much slower. Early game, VR damage is negligible, as with all ships. Midgame, With 10 range on your lasers and 11 on missiles you'd easily do 1-2k dmg before a voidray can catch up with you, and your allies will probably be warping in all around you to force it to retreat. Speed advantage is negligible in most circumstances until they get blink, in which case you have to be more careful. A decent player will always have his/her ship at full speed all the time anyways and 0.1 speed isn't going to do anything if VR is out of range. | ||
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Bowdy
United States232 Posts
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Zaraphiston
United States26 Posts
I seem to have problems farming......any tips? | ||
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Ryalnos
United States1946 Posts
On December 16 2010 09:57 Zaraphiston wrote: I personally don't like the VR that much, it is really pesky when you run away. I think the biggest problem in the game right now is the massive influx of idiots that play in your random team. boo yah! I seem to have problems farming......any tips? 4 into lasers, 2 into speed, warp. Let everyone else waste time in the early conflicts in the middle. Stay just off to the side/just behind your own lines so you're only firing at the creeps. Watch the minimap to make sure you can't be cut off. There isn't really much to it other than not wasting your time on pointless battles + knowing the balance between wandering out to find creeps and staying within range of safety. | ||
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Duban
United States548 Posts
On December 16 2010 07:25 Bowdy wrote: VR's "broke the game" in a good way. Everyone has to play completely differently now because now if you get caught with your pants down you have a 100% of dying where as before you could do some cute maneuvering and get away. It puts a lot more emphasis on working as a team. I agree the void ray needs some tweaking but the impact it has on the game is positive imo. So wait, removing player's ability to manuever into survivability is a good thing? Removing strategies based on skill is not a good thing, and the Damage output is insane. In the last game I got 3 kills, in the game before that 4 kills, in the game before that 4 kills. While I've managed similar before this time it just comes down to lots of attack upgrades instead of pilot skill. If correctly piloted the ship is unstoppably good and can kill masses of the other ships. P.S. +.10 speed is huge so stop saying it isn't. Speed is both survivability and killing ability. Even 1 upgrade makes a huge difference. So much so that the change rendered my old kite and kill strategy completely unusable. Again killing strategy diversity. | ||
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Aeo
United States113 Posts
On December 16 2010 10:03 Ryalnos wrote: 4 into lasers, 2 into speed, warp. Let everyone else waste time in the early conflicts in the middle. Stay just off to the side/just behind your own lines so you're only firing at the creeps. Watch the minimap to make sure you can't be cut off. There isn't really much to it other than not wasting your time on pointless battles + knowing the balance between wandering out to find creeps and staying within range of safety. I wish I had five of you in every game. | ||
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Duban
United States548 Posts
Maybe the 3 of us should join a party and own a few games :-). Same name #321 | ||
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Impervious
Canada4216 Posts
On December 16 2010 10:03 Ryalnos wrote: 4 into lasers, 2 into speed, warp. Let everyone else waste time in the early conflicts in the middle. Stay just off to the side/just behind your own lines so you're only firing at the creeps. Watch the minimap to make sure you can't be cut off. There isn't really much to it other than not wasting your time on pointless battles + knowing the balance between wandering out to find creeps and staying within range of safety. Personally, I like getting 3 speed, warp, and 1 range as the Carrier. I typically am the first to 100+ kills. That extra range and speed helps soooo much, and 4 lasers only really increases your killing potential by a factor of about 1.5 (usually a 2nd shot is wasted when you get the upgrades vs 3rd shot without, before it targets a different creep). I did try the 4 laser, 2 speed, warp (or similar setup, instead of getting warp doing something else with the minerals) when I first started playing, but I prefer the extra speed and range instead. It might be a personal thing though. | ||
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waffling1
599 Posts
1) upg range 2) upg plasma cannons upg (regular weapon) 3) nullifies the fragility of void ray by allowing to be on the sides with comparable DPS. 4) way better farming throughout the whole game (u want to keep upgrading plasma cannons, so u will keep up with the HP increase of creeps. destroys is not the only ship where u want regular attack upgs anymore) 5) beam void ray has to go into the fray and chase. they take damage. But ranged plasma cannon void ray isn't on an "HP fuse", but it can keep attacking as long as it doesn't get flanked. the chances of losing HP from flanking is infinitely lower than losing HP by chasing with beam. It's also a lot more work for the other team, and it takes time to flank. 6) Cloak is a decent luxury upgrade for this reason i've been using this build and i'd say it's way more annoying to other players than the regular beam void ray. with so much maneuverability, it's pretty much like your void ray is on dota speed, while everyone else is on star battle speed. the only real ways to kill this kind of kiting void ray is by sneaking up on it with another cloaked void ray to chase you down, or vortex and team surround. before you get cloak, which is only late game, regular flanks would kill this void ray as well. Is the normal playstarbattle site down? i have so many bugs and suggestions. | ||
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Ryalnos
United States1946 Posts
On December 16 2010 10:54 Impervious wrote: Personally, I like getting 3 speed, warp, and 1 range as the Carrier. I typically am the first to 100+ kills. That extra range and speed helps soooo much, and 4 lasers only really increases your killing potential by a factor of about 1.5 (usually a 2nd shot is wasted when you get the upgrades vs 3rd shot without, before it targets a different creep). I did try the 4 laser, 2 speed, warp (or similar setup, instead of getting warp doing something else with the minerals) when I first started playing, but I prefer the extra speed and range instead. It might be a personal thing though. It would take me a bit of convincing to accept that ~8% extra range and ~6% extra speed is better for early game farming than halving the number of shots it takes to kill your targets, even if some of those are wasted. | ||
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karlmengsk
Canada230 Posts
On December 16 2010 10:54 waffling1 wrote: Kiting ranged void ray build 1) upg range 2) upg plasma cannons upg (regular weapon) 3) nullifies the fragility of void ray by allowing to be on the sides with comparable DPS. 4) way better farming throughout the whole game (u want to keep upgrading plasma cannons, so u will keep up with the HP increase of creeps. destroys is not the only ship where u want regular attack upgs anymore) 5) beam void ray has to go into the fray and chase. they take damage. But ranged plasma cannon void ray isn't on an "HP fuse", but it can keep attacking as long as it doesn't get flanked. the chances of losing HP from flanking is infinitely lower than losing HP by chasing with beam. It's also a lot more work for the other team, and it takes time to flank. 6) Cloak is a decent luxury upgrade for this reason i've been using this build and i'd say it's way more annoying to other players than the regular beam void ray. with so much maneuverability, it's pretty much like your void ray is on dota speed, while everyone else is on star battle speed. the only real ways to kill this kind of kiting void ray is by sneaking up on it with another cloaked void ray to chase you down, or vortex and team surround. before you get cloak, which is only late game, regular flanks would kill this void ray as well. Is the normal playstarbattle site down? i have so many bugs and suggestions. I do a similar build except I start out with 4 laser, 2speed and warp, farm until flux and 3rd speed, then either transition into ranged or put more upgrades into my beam, depending on how the game is playing out. But yeah, it's awesome to get like 11 or 12 range, you can even kite those 15 range siege destroyers 1v1 if they don't upgrade their range because of their lack of vision. | ||
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