On December 12 2010 22:38 Edmon wrote: How to win starbattle every time:
Everyone select void ray.
Everyone get 25 mineral speed boost + rest in pris beam.
Share control.
Gather up 6 voids in a ball, right click nearest enemy. Definitely allow them to get closer to your base first. He will die before the 6 of them can kill one of you. Repeat over and over while they are in full retreat (or if they aren't simply kill them all).
The DPS you have doing this is insane and perfectly focused, while the 6 ball makes you hard to target. Additionally, you are faster than they are unless they went heavily into speed. Simply target someone that didn't to annihilate them, then follow on against their allies.
Well, now we know how to win every time.
Now, if you want to have fun playing Star Battle, methinks the first step is not doing any of that.
On December 12 2010 18:18 Vod.kaholic wrote: Here are my thoughts on the voidray after losing and winning several battles with it. The main thing it's good at is chasing, because it cannot win a straight up firefight, nor hope to outrange an enemy with it's main mode of DPS. It may have a useful role as a spellcaster, but I haven't experimented with that yet (Although I see great potential for chrono-rift), but as it stands, void rays will only be a bonus to your team if you are already winning.
One thing I noticed it CAN do though, is farm semi-effectively throughout the game with it's beam weapon, because it will ALWAYS one-shot fighters, for most of the game. However, its turn speed is fairly slow, and its firing arc is quite tiny, making it hard to use it for farming.
Suggestion: Increase the firing arc for the prismatic beam.
This should make Void Rays rather good at farming and give them a distinct advantage, as well as making them better chasers (since they won't have to hug the enemy ship's butt to be able to do damage).
Anyway, since they are so squishy, they are a great liability in most fights, the only way they're going to be able to pull their own weight is if you're already winning. Since their main source of DPS is a weapon that only fires forward, they cannot help but commit to teamfights, and they are screwed if it goes badly. I think giving it like a 90-135 degree firing arc on the prismatic beam will give void rays the ability to skirmish without being like "HEY I'M A SITTING DUCK CHANNELING THIS BEAM AT 7 RANGE AND I HAVE NO HP" and without having to invest in lasers, which they won't even be using half the time.
They'd be kinda rigged if they could use both weapons at once
Can blink/cloak/ fly faster than other ships as means of escape /best turn rates
I never said that...I was asking for a buff to ONE weapon (the beam), not asking that they be able to use the beam and lasers at the same time.
On December 12 2010 22:38 Edmon wrote: How to win starbattle every time:
Everyone select void ray.
Everyone get 25 mineral speed boost + rest in pris beam.
Share control.
Gather up 6 voids in a ball, right click nearest enemy. Definitely allow them to get closer to your base first. He will die before the 6 of them can kill one of you. Repeat over and over while they are in full retreat (or if they aren't simply kill them all).
The DPS you have doing this is insane and perfectly focused, while the 6 ball makes you hard to target. Additionally, you are faster than they are unless they went heavily into speed. Simply target someone that didn't to annihilate them, then follow on against their allies.
You need to have flux in order to gank anything with the laser attack.
There REALLY doesn't need to be a buff to the laser. The laser is already extremely powerful as it is. The drawbacks of the laser need to be there so that it isn't absolutely ridiculous.
ps. the gradual strengthening of the fighters is awesome.
Funny game. But it can't be played competitive, because it is too simple. But it is addictive and fun, which made me spent a couple hours on it. And I will probably spend 10 hours more on it.
But it is far from DotA level, something where I spent already over 4000 games on. Which would be around 125 days of my life, and yesterday I had a epic 75 minute game. SCII just need the possibility to use mods in custom games to gain some sort of ranking system.
On December 12 2010 22:38 Edmon wrote: How to win starbattle every time:
Everyone select void ray.
Everyone get 25 mineral speed boost + rest in pris beam.
Share control.
Gather up 6 voids in a ball, right click nearest enemy. Definitely allow them to get closer to your base first. He will die before the 6 of them can kill one of you. Repeat over and over while they are in full retreat (or if they aren't simply kill them all).
The DPS you have doing this is insane and perfectly focused, while the 6 ball makes you hard to target. Additionally, you are faster than they are unless they went heavily into speed. Simply target someone that didn't to annihilate them, then follow on against their allies.
Will only work in a pubstomp.
In a fight where both teams know where they'll be doing, you have no guarantee of winning it. While you might destroy one or two players, they have better options for farming. Depending upon the outcome of first conflict, you'll either be ahead or behind.
My opinion of the Vray is that it's weak early game, while it can become a powerful DPS in the mid-late game.
On December 12 2010 22:53 saltygrapes wrote: I've said it before and I'll say it again
The skill ceiling on this map is about a 1/10. This map will not go anywhere in the competitive scene =/. Which sucks, cause the guy making it seems to know what he's doing and there are very limited amounts of good custom team games out there.
I kinda agree but this game has potential, it's not like dota was build in a day :D
Yeah but the actual makeup of how the map is played gives it no skill ceiling. There's not much the author can do without completely changing what the map actually is. There's no last hitting, very little decision making outside of what upgrades to get and where to be, and no abilities that require much skill to use properly.
Just because it's not like DotA EXACTLY doesn't mean it's bad. For this game, it seems like the authors going for a more micro/unit movement based game. (The importance of speed upgrades, the eventual introduction of asteroids, etc.) I like that. If I wanted to play DotA I'd play DotA. But I don't.
That has nothing to do with my point. My point is this game takes no skill whatsoever therefore it will flame out at the competitive level. Not that it's not enough like dota
Last hitting was one of the things i hated about dota, it's more ping than skill dependent. It's also some stupid farming skill you get with practice. Not really what competitive gaming should aim for. This map is new and we should consider it unfinished, the dev talked about adding alot more stuff, that will improve the gameplay over time. Once you have alternative ways of farming, more stuff to buy than just abilities (items/additional small ships comes to mind), the skill ceiling will go up, as it will with more balance where errors get punished more. Keep in mind there is no respawn, so a death in this game is not to be taken lightly. The void ray helps in that regard, if you get caught by a VR and your team fails to send it away, you're dead.
On December 12 2010 22:38 Edmon wrote: How to win starbattle every time:
Everyone select void ray.
Everyone get 25 mineral speed boost + rest in pris beam.
Share control.
Gather up 6 voids in a ball, right click nearest enemy. Definitely allow them to get closer to your base first. He will die before the 6 of them can kill one of you. Repeat over and over while they are in full retreat (or if they aren't simply kill them all).
The DPS you have doing this is insane and perfectly focused, while the 6 ball makes you hard to target. Additionally, you are faster than they are unless they went heavily into speed. Simply target someone that didn't to annihilate them, then follow on against their allies.
Will only work in a pubstomp.
In a fight where both teams know where they'll be doing, you have no guarantee of winning it. While you might destroy one or two players, they have better options for farming. Depending upon the outcome of first conflict, you'll either be ahead or behind.
My opinion of the Vray is that it's weak early game, while it can become a powerful DPS in the mid-late game.
It works against any team. You can't escape the void because it's simply faster than you could ever be (as anything else) and once the beam locks on it "sticks" to you, so you can't get away. Even the dreaded special spammers aren't so scary now that there is protection for being hit many times in a short time.
Beam ignores PDD too, so you can't use that to bail yourself out.
The only reason why this will fail (I can think of) is that you simply don't have control of a whole team .
Game will be over before farming will ever matter or be an issue.
On December 12 2010 22:38 Edmon wrote: How to win starbattle every time:
Everyone select void ray.
Everyone get 25 mineral speed boost + rest in pris beam.
Share control.
Gather up 6 voids in a ball, right click nearest enemy. Definitely allow them to get closer to your base first. He will die before the 6 of them can kill one of you. Repeat over and over while they are in full retreat (or if they aren't simply kill them all).
The DPS you have doing this is insane and perfectly focused, while the 6 ball makes you hard to target. Additionally, you are faster than they are unless they went heavily into speed. Simply target someone that didn't to annihilate them, then follow on against their allies.
Will only work in a pubstomp.
In a fight where both teams know where they'll be doing, you have no guarantee of winning it. While you might destroy one or two players, they have better options for farming. Depending upon the outcome of first conflict, you'll either be ahead or behind.
My opinion of the Vray is that it's weak early game, while it can become a powerful DPS in the mid-late game.
It works against any team. You can't escape the void because it's simply faster than you could ever be (as anything else) and once the beam locks on it "sticks" to you, so you can't get away. Even the dreaded special spammers aren't so scary now that there is protection for being hit many times in a short time.
Beam ignores PDD too, so you can't use that to bail yourself out.
The only reason why this will fail (I can think of) is that you simply don't have control of a whole team .
Game will be over before farming will ever matter or be an issue.
Void ray beam has fixed(not-upgradeable) range 7, most ships will outrange that easily, just don't let them get all in 7 range, and if they do, start spreading out so you can hit the VR while they can't hit you, and if you also focus fire (it seems like you're assuming one arranged team will ff and the other is just a pug which randomly targets), then the VRs will go down..
On December 14 2010 01:33 Edmon wrote: Game will be over before farming will ever matter or be an issue.
Nah, cloak -> gg (please play the game a bit before you write something like "autowin") oh and a nuke forces your entire group to abort any sort of attack and scatter, then get picked off easily because you only have vrs. Plus your antifighter capabilities are so awful that you cannot assault near the enemy base. So yeah..no chance you can win with that awful strategy against any kind of decent team.
On December 12 2010 22:38 Edmon wrote: How to win starbattle every time:
Everyone select void ray.
Everyone get 25 mineral speed boost + rest in pris beam.
Share control.
Gather up 6 voids in a ball, right click nearest enemy. Definitely allow them to get closer to your base first. He will die before the 6 of them can kill one of you. Repeat over and over while they are in full retreat (or if they aren't simply kill them all).
The DPS you have doing this is insane and perfectly focused, while the 6 ball makes you hard to target. Additionally, you are faster than they are unless they went heavily into speed. Simply target someone that didn't to annihilate them, then follow on against their allies.
Will only work in a pubstomp.
In a fight where both teams know where they'll be doing, you have no guarantee of winning it. While you might destroy one or two players, they have better options for farming. Depending upon the outcome of first conflict, you'll either be ahead or behind.
My opinion of the Vray is that it's weak early game, while it can become a powerful DPS in the mid-late game.
It works against any team. You can't escape the void because it's simply faster than you could ever be (as anything else) and once the beam locks on it "sticks" to you, so you can't get away. Even the dreaded special spammers aren't so scary now that there is protection for being hit many times in a short time.
Beam ignores PDD too, so you can't use that to bail yourself out.
The only reason why this will fail (I can think of) is that you simply don't have control of a whole team .
Game will be over before farming will ever matter or be an issue.
except, you know, you can't gank with prismatic beam until you have flux.
More to the point—or my point, anyway—I don't know many people who would be willing to choose V-ray, then share control and sit back while someone else wins for them. Also, win or lose, you're giving up any sort of extended game, because you'll either win outright or get outfarmed and outupgraded.
On the other hand, maybe Star Battle needed a sort of "cheese" play to make it legitimate. :p
Can you add a way to allow people to view what upgrades they could buy and what research they could get, provided that they haven't bought the research, without being at base?
-It wouldn't affect the balance, it'd kind of be like DotA ( without the buying away from base function of course for this specific map ) where you could hotkey all the shops in your own base and read everything without adding some overlays like in hoN/LoL ( obscures view ).
On December 12 2010 22:53 saltygrapes wrote: I've said it before and I'll say it again
The skill ceiling on this map is about a 1/10. This map will not go anywhere in the competitive scene =/. Which sucks, cause the guy making it seems to know what he's doing and there are very limited amounts of good custom team games out there.
I kinda agree but this game has potential, it's not like dota was build in a day :D
Yeah but the actual makeup of how the map is played gives it no skill ceiling. There's not much the author can do without completely changing what the map actually is. There's no last hitting, very little decision making outside of what upgrades to get and where to be, and no abilities that require much skill to use properly.
Just because it's not like DotA EXACTLY doesn't mean it's bad. For this game, it seems like the authors going for a more micro/unit movement based game. (The importance of speed upgrades, the eventual introduction of asteroids, etc.) I like that. If I wanted to play DotA I'd play DotA. But I don't.
That has nothing to do with my point. My point is this game takes no skill whatsoever therefore it will flame out at the competitive level. Not that it's not enough like dota
Last hitting was one of the things i hated about dota, it's more ping than skill dependent. It's also some stupid farming skill you get with practice. Not really what competitive gaming should aim for. This map is new and we should consider it unfinished, the dev talked about adding alot more stuff, that will improve the gameplay over time. Once you have alternative ways of farming, more stuff to buy than just abilities (items/additional small ships comes to mind), the skill ceiling will go up, as it will with more balance where errors get punished more. Keep in mind there is no respawn, so a death in this game is not to be taken lightly. The void ray helps in that regard, if you get caught by a VR and your team fails to send it away, you're dead.
They could deny someone 100% XP in pre 6.32 and prior versions if they were good at the timing, ( range units often had a projectile animation + innate animation to start firing + weaker damage to start, but melee units had a faster animation+minor delay, higher damage at start, but limited range ) Each hero had different timings that weren't listen in the game, you'd just have to memorize all of them ( the jaina one with the frostnova had a really high delay on the animation )
By the way, can you let the fighters increase over 80 hp at maximum + possible 20 from the two science vessels?
They don't go over 100 hp over a mega long game.
And is it possible to change their attack to 1xDamage instead of 2xDamage? It shows up as like 8damage2hits instead of 16damage1hit ( latter is better for the mini fighters as they only need to subtract damage once instead of twice )
The Voidray's 2+8 Shield armor upgrade reduces pretty much all the damage for the most part until they get over 11x2 ( they'd do only 2 damage afterwards as a 1x2 hits )
Ive run into a few teams of all void-ray people. It makes me smile, because all I have to do once I figure it out is tell my team to stick the hell together, and give one guy (whoever picked BC) all the farm. Once he gets nuke and a bunch of energy upgrades, the mass void strategy fails completely. I play with a few friends, but we always have some randoms. If we see mass void, the guy in our group just buys quick nuke, then charges the voids so they cant flee him. he sacs himself, but we get 2-3 kills off it, then we quickly take farm positions and upgrade miles past the remaining voids. Never fails. With coordination, its not easy to lose to that strategy.
On a side note, has the map designer considered an auto-balance feature if someone drops in the start menu? It bugs me to no end when I have two drops before starting. Its hard to win, but i just take destroyer and siege-mode camp my sci vessel/warp prism.
This is a potentially silly question, but why isn't resource sharing enabled?
It would open up new potential in organized team games, like: I go siege destroyer, which is so good when you have a good team support, but loses out late game because you aren't farming kills for upgrades, just pounding away at towers and enemy capitals. If your support team could feed you some of the money they make from protecting you, it would help you keep up in the late game.
I understand that it would possibly be dangerous, with the possibility that some people could cheese at the start of the game donating to one person and making one megaship, but a smart team would be able to avoid that pretty easily.
Especially because it is so hard to run away from them because they have: -Very fast speed that allows them to chase you down, especially with flux vanes. This also makes it pretty much impossible to chase down a void ray. -Ridiculous dps with prismatic beam that can be doubled with their special ability -And an imbalanced leeway range that requires no micro at all.
Pretty much if you encounter a void ray 1 on 1 ur screwed. The only way to escape a void ray is to have some team members come and have both of you attack it to force it to retreat.
On December 15 2010 06:20 number1gog wrote: This is a potentially silly question, but why isn't resource sharing enabled?
It would open up new potential in organized team games, like: I go siege destroyer, which is so good when you have a good team support, but loses out late game because you aren't farming kills for upgrades, just pounding away at towers and enemy capitals. If your support team could feed you some of the money they make from protecting you, it would help you keep up in the late game.
I understand that it would possibly be dangerous, with the possibility that some people could cheese at the start of the game donating to one person and making one megaship, but a smart team would be able to avoid that pretty easily.
The whole point of disabling the resource sharing is to prevent abuse like that from happening. As of now, this sort of stuff already happens to a certain degree when players automatically leave right after the game finishes loading. This gives extra minerals to the rest of the team for additional upgrades. Although you're down one player, you've still got the unoccupied ship to act as a meatshield and got an additional upgrade right off the bat, which is quite important early in the game.
Avoiding a single strong built ship is very hard to do, even if you've got upgrades yourself. One misclick and you are as good as dead if you get within range of it's attacks. Also need to remember its not going to be 1 megaship vs their entire army, but rather 1 megaship and your ally of non upgraded ships vs your opponents evenly spread upgrades on their ships.
You can also suggest having them focus down the ship. If a team decided to go with a strategy like that to begin with, I'd assume the core player would know how to keep his/her ship alive at all costs. You can't focus down a ship unless the person misclicks and messes up. Even then, it will still break away from it's range since it will be guaranteed to move faster than everyone else.
Since all players start off with 250 minerals, with 6 players total, if everyone transfers over their minerals and focused on 1 player, that would be an instant 1500 mineral upgraded ship right off the bat. If teams got a little strategic, all players can spend 50 on warp before giving rest the minerals to the single player. The core player would move up to the front lines to engage and the rest of the team would all warp in together and focus fire down a ship, taking out at least 1 or potentially 2 ships right off the bat.
I agree that there should be some sort of auto balancing for drops, since every game I have played has had at least 1 person drop at the start. Not more cash I think, but upgraded fighters to slow down the enemy farm.
Upgrade your speed early (to as high as possible), after that VRs are up, they farm pretty bad. Also, if he uses his pb launch your fighters (if you don't run away ofc).
Remember: Everytime the VR uses his pb he does not get any money. If he chases you and brings you into the yellow, but has to abort he wins absolutely nothing (and you didn't lose anything aside from time, yet still getting some money from random fighters). Just don't go to deep into enemy territory/try to match his speed (or stay within the 1.0 speed range) and keep your distance (because 2 or 3 vrs can kill you).
EPT
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