EPTAbout smurfs on TSL
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aTnClouD
Italy2428 Posts
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jingXD
United States283 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On March 30 2008 15:05 Plexa wrote: You must create an account with your known ID in it. Do not take this request lightly. If we find out you have been smurfing in any way, you will be disqualified. If you are worried about which ID you should use or whether this rule applies to you, ask Manifesto7 via private message. Since all accounts must be new, we recommend gamers use a TSL- tag with their name. Ex. TSL-Nony, TSL-FakeSteve. If you find someone else using your known name, PM Mani. If you feel that not smurfing gives you an unfair disadvantage, you must appeal to Mani. We will then give you a predetermined smurf name. Failure to do this will lead to disqualification. If you want to change names, you must inform us. No exceptions. | ||
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aTnClouD
Italy2428 Posts
 actually I was debating with other TL players about this and it seems no one of us read that carefully. | ||
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ATeddyBear
Canada2843 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3817/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif) | ||
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rANDY
United Kingdom748 Posts
On April 16 2008 09:24 ATeddyBear wrote: loooooooool | ||
Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
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Worked!
Canada264 Posts
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JoMal
Trinidad/Tobago1177 Posts
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Stegosaur
Netherlands1231 Posts
On April 16 2008 10:12 Worked! wrote: anyone who needs to smurf, = loser pussy oo; Some people get dodged based on reputation, people are afraid of losing points | ||
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praetor.at
Austria92 Posts
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Coulthard
Greece3359 Posts
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Daveed
United States236 Posts
On April 16 2008 22:52 praetor.at wrote: according to this reasoning, mondragon should have been smurfing. yet he didn't, and he's doing well "some", not "all" people dodge. | ||
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Asta
Germany3491 Posts
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Xeln4g4
Italy1207 Posts
Some of the guys (i.e.:Cloud) also realized their replays to the community and this is a sign of transparency and fairplay. Allowing smurfs (except for excellent and proved reson) is not fairplay. In my opinion smurf shouldn't be allowed anymore in the future. An option might be creating a list of all the smurf, available for consulting to the first 100-200 players in the TSL-ladder ranking. But in general i think that we have already enough fake and hackers in this community and don't need more. Mondragon proved to anyone that if u are good, you don't need to HIDE. And he was maybe the only one with a decent reason to use a smurf (90% of the community watched tons of his replays!). If he doesn't need smurf, none need. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36372 Posts
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
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TheDarKo
Sweden109 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.localarcade.com/arcade_art/data/thumbnails/2/smurf.jpg) | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
On April 17 2008 01:43 Hot_Bid wrote: Everyone has the option of smurfing or not, so I don't see how it's unfair. Well, let's look at it from a logical perspective. 1) The condition for having a smurf is that it must be approved (means that a player should need/have a very valid reason for smurfing). 2) All the very top players (Mondragon, Draco, Testie) and really famous players too such as Nazgul, Eriador, and practically everyone, are using their real ID's. 3) Therefore, if all the top players are using their real ID's, and you can justifiably make the argument that every single player considered a "top player" can be found not smurfing the ladder, who could possibly have a valid reason to smurf ? 4) I would then conclude that because all the top players are using their real ID's, there really can't be a valid reason for anybody to use a smurf account. Then, you can look at why most top players smurf on ladders in the first place. 1) Their reputation might make it hard to get games, 2) they want to game without being distracted by people messaging them. (I believe these are the two most likely reasons). SO; since these are the reasons people smurf ladders, and it's already been established that anyone who would be significantly hampered by the above mentioned 1) and 2) are NOT smurfing... there really is no reason for ANYBODY to smurf on this ladder (or have valid reasons). The ONLY exception I can really think of that justifies a smurf is 1) Someone with a bad reputation of hacking / cheating, trying to play the ladder to redeem their name/play in peace. However, can you think of anyone that fits under this category? Mistrzzz and Haypro aren't smurfing and theyre the only names I could think of. Overall conclusion: I can't fathom anybody having a valid reason to smurf this ladder other than the top players (who aren't smurfing anyways). | ||
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aTnClouD
Italy2428 Posts
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IntoTheWow
is awesome32269 Posts
On April 16 2008 09:24 ATeddyBear wrote: looooool | ||
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Devolved
United States2753 Posts
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tiffany
3664 Posts
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Asta
Germany3491 Posts
On April 17 2008 01:43 Hot_Bid wrote: Everyone has the option of smurfing or not, so I don't see how it's unfair. In the initial announcement of the ladder it said smurfing was prohibited. Then some people made agreements with the ladder admins to make exceptions but this never got explained publicly. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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useLess
United States4781 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36372 Posts
On April 17 2008 04:56 Asta wrote: In the initial announcement of the ladder it said smurfing was prohibited. Then some people made agreements with the ladder admins to make exceptions but this never got explained publicly. You should re-read the initial announcement before making statements like these. | ||
Chosi
Germany1302 Posts
when the current #1 does not need a smurf, why should anyone else need one? I would even state that there are *at least* as many ppl driven and attracted by the possibility to beat a known player (5 pool anyone? *G) then players who dodge him while fearing to lose points. There is no valid argument for smurfs. (offtopic, same reason why I proposed single unique IDs for SC2 Bnet, or at least a way to check the account behind different IDs) | ||
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ZpuX
Sweden1230 Posts
On April 17 2008 04:56 Asta wrote: In the initial announcement of the ladder it said smurfing was prohibited. Then some people made agreements with the ladder admins to make exceptions but this never got explained publicly. hehe you are arguing with the founder of TSL, I think he knows the "rules" better than most ppl | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
anyways, I dont really care !_!~ | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27128 Posts
On April 17 2008 07:35 Xeris wrote: I'm just pointing out the fact that if the top players (who you would think have a legitimate desire to smurf) arent smurfing, why would anyone else have valid reasons? anyways, I dont really care !_!~ You are all arguing an illogical position. The decisions of one gamer have no bearing on the decisions of another. If Mondragon doesn't smurf, there is no relationship between the reasoning for another gamer who does. People do not have to base their decisions on the behaviour of others. Instead, they base their decisions on the rules of the environment under which they exist. I want to wear a seatbelt. The law says I don't have to wear a seatbelt, but if I choose to do so and my car is equipped with one I can. The best driver and most well known driver in the world doesn't wear one. What is my reasoning? + Show Spoiler [answer] + It doesn't matter. It is my own choice. | ||
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Dinosaur
Denmark112 Posts
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
Quote from official rules: " No smurf accounts You must create an account with your known ID in it. Do not take this request lightly. If we find out you have been smurfing in any way, you will be disqualified. If you are worried about which ID you should use or whether this rule applies to you, ask Manifesto7 via private message. Since all accounts must be new, we recommend gamers use a TSL- tag with their name. Ex. TSL-Nony, TSL-FakeSteve. If you find someone else using your known name, PM Mani. If you feel that not smurfing gives you an unfair disadvantage, you must appeal to Mani. We will then give you a predetermined smurf name. Failure to do this will lead to disqualification. If you want to change names, you must inform us. No exceptions." So... for the people who ARE smurfing, what argument could possibly be made that not smurfing is giving them an unfair disadvantage? Just wondering what people who got approved smurfs reasons were for wanting to smurf? | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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Axieoqu
Finland204 Posts
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jambonkingcool
Canada186 Posts
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NonY
8748 Posts
On April 17 2008 23:13 jambonkingcool wrote: I think everyone should have been able to smurf during the ladder thing, I don't see why people would have to ask permission to do it. When it comes to the real league(top48), players cannot smurf anymore because they have to give their rl name to register, and the brackets are done at this stage, so there is no point in smurfing anymore. I know it's cool to know who is who, but during the ladder stage it doesn't matter really because we can't see the games anyway - they aren't broadcasted, and the replays aren't available (unless the players release them). I personaly think the no-smurfing rule was dumb and meaningless, but thats just my 2cents. A lot of people have had fun following the ladder so far. People don't need to actually see the games in order to enjoy following the results. I doubt they'd have fun cheering for anonymous_protoss01928 against anonymous_zerg53721. I'd actually think that if replays/VODs were released, then you'd have a better argument. People would be able to enjoy the games for their intrinsic entertainment without having any added value from the player ID's attached to them. But since people can't enjoy the actual games, the added value of the drama/history/competition between the players is the only thing that makes the results worth following. Anonymity + no VODs/reps = absolutely nothing for the spectators. | ||
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EAGER-beaver
Canada2799 Posts
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kroko
Finland2136 Posts
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MiniRoman
Canada3953 Posts
On April 16 2008 09:24 ATeddyBear wrote: If that emoticon gets popular on this forum I will kill you. | ||
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Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Just to throw my 2 cents in here: 1. I think this issue is really small and not even worth a discussion either way. That means, the argument for wanting to smurf is really really weak. Players dodge records for sure not names. Perhaps the RACE associated with that name but that can be found before the game starts anyways. The argument against smurfing is also weak, it essentially boils down into a "well if he can do it why can't I?" which is childish and short sighted. 2. There are too few smurfs for it to matter. I really like that the rule is no smurfing, I feel like that gives the ladder more of a star league feeling. That being said the idea behind allowed smurfing is decent, I just think it is an answer to a "probelm" that is inadequate. Draco, Mondragon, WhiteRa etc.. THE most feared gamers in the community are having _NO_ problem getting games. I know Hot_Bid or maybe Mani said earler that just because they can doesnt mean it is the same situation for other gamers but I honestly cannot see an argument aside from dodging on name recognition that would offer a reasonable explanation for why some gamers are allowed to smurf and not others. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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axel
France385 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28574 Posts
if your stats are in the 45-1 range and people dont know you then they assume you're either really really good and smurfing - thus hard to beat, or that you cheat/abuse and they wont get a fair game if your stats are in the 45-1 range and you're using the name tot)mondragon( then people think whoa mondi is good i prolly wont win but also "hey this is a good opportunity to play mondragon" (unless he is a player normally in a position to play mondragon, in which case ones ego is too big to dodge anyway.) basically the "i gotta smurf cause I cant get games cause im too famous" arguement sucks ass unless you deliberately aim for losing 30 games while smurfing to make your record look worse cause people look just as much at stats as they look at name, and name can be motivation to play you, not only to dodge. | ||
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Manifesto7
Osaka27128 Posts
As inc said, the amount of smurfs makes it almost a non-issue. Lastly, watching known names is much more entertaining than watching a ladder of smurfs. | ||
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tttt
United States386 Posts
On April 18 2008 10:34 Manifesto7 wrote: To be fair, allowing people to smurf while reporting also gave us an element of control that we would have lost had we said "no smurfing for anyone" because people would do it anyway. At least this way we know who is who. As inc said, the amount of smurfs makes it almost a non-issue. Lastly, watching known names is much more entertaining than watching a ladder of smurfs. Indeed. I think that's the most important thing. Obviously it's anecdotal, but I've personally been much more interested in the TSL (translate that into checking stats/standings daily) because I've been able to follow players who I know of. That being said, who the hell is TSL-Love?? | ||
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mMaskulin
Germany17 Posts
On April 18 2008 14:11 tttt wrote: That being said, who the hell is TSL-Love?? i recommend reading the whole thing  | ||
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LuMiX
China5757 Posts
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ReadyRok
Canada27 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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uNiGNoRe
Germany1115 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
But all the smurfs are revealed imo o-O maybe the ones that didn't make it you mean? | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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Jaskwith
United States197 Posts
Meh, if some people are unsecure about the reputation they have to uphold let them smurf, because its obviously not because of dodge reasons, I mean who is there that you would dodge but then not dodge mondragoon? And If mondragoon did it on the same server with the same users that these smurfs feel smurfing is necessary then whats the problem? Get over it and stop babying higher level gamers, its nonsense PISH POSH! | ||
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gusbear
333 Posts
On April 18 2008 10:34 Manifesto7 wrote: To be fair, allowing people to smurf while reporting also gave us an element of control that we would have lost had we said "no smurfing for anyone" because people would do it anyway. At least this way we know who is who. sorry but thats the lamest reason ever. thats like saying ok we will allow hackers since there are gonna be people hacking anyway. smurf = ban. how hard is that to enforce? | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
Who is TSL-Oystein ? Who is TSl-13 ? Does TSL-ultraling use the aka "ultraling" on Europe ? | ||
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
On April 22 2008 04:31 gusbear wrote: sorry but thats the lamest reason ever. thats like saying ok we will allow hackers since there are gonna be people hacking anyway. smurf = ban. how hard is that to enforce? That's a super-legit reason, Mani. I think that that alone really justifies allowing admin-controlled smurfs. I'm trying to think of a freakonomics style example that mimics this, but maybe I'll edit later. Now that the ladder is over, any admin caring enough to enlighten us on who used smurfs? And the reasoning behind specific people asking for smurfs? (the latter is a lot to ask for I'd happy with just the former). Edit: It's like if the US issued Cocaine/Whorehouse licenses. Crack is going to happen anyways, but at least there's a way to track it. Same with hookers, and there's a million ways to argue against the legalizing of activities like these, but it's an example. Oh, same with abortions. They're going to happen anyways, might as well legalize them. | ||
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gusbear
333 Posts
On April 22 2008 11:50 thunk wrote: Edit: It's like if the US issued Cocaine/Whorehouse licenses. Crack is going to happen anyways, but at least there's a way to track it. Same with hookers, and there's a million ways to argue against the legalizing of activities like these, but it's an example. Oh, same with abortions. They're going to happen anyways, might as well legalize them. Those examples only work where there is extreme difficulty in enforcing the bans. Enforcing smurfing is not nearly as hard because all the qualifiers have to give replays and their real personal information so there is simply no way for a "known" player to smurf. | ||
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ilj.psa
Peru3081 Posts
On April 19 2008 01:45 {88}iNcontroL wrote: yup long ago.. then he moved to usa and didnt learn the language and still plays bw he speaks fluent english, and btw yea he was Sasin)Yeon, korean ex-progamer. | ||
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SpiralArchitect
United States2116 Posts
On April 19 2008 01:45 {88}iNcontroL wrote: yup long ago.. then he moved to usa and didnt learn the language and still plays bw He actually speaks english pretty well... | ||
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Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
On April 22 2008 04:42 Boblion wrote: I have some questions: Who is TSL-Oystein ? Who is TSl-13 ? Does TSL-ultraling use the aka "ultraling" on Europe ? Oystein is just Oystein - no smurf. Dunno for the rest | ||
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littlechava
United States7216 Posts
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