EPTPower Rank 05/15/2009 - Page 43
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
On June 09 2009 09:14 disciple wrote: Speaking of percentages I've already posted it somewhere, will do it here as well. To give you example how good exactly JD and Bisu are...well over approximately 100 games, which is quite a long period of time, fantasy have around 55% win ratio, leta has near 60%, skyhigh doesnt even have 100 games in his record but his overall is somewhere around 60% as well, effort is the same story. JD however has 71% win ratio in his last 100 games and Bisu has even more- 75% (lol unexpected right?btw during his best 100 games savior had 68%)... This is a long period of time, and those two are holding their ground. If one of them didn't excited the other one would be considered easily the most dominant player of all time Blasphemy!  Iloveoov is easily the most dominant player of all time. His first 97 games up to the Gillette semi finals he went 77-20 for a 79.38% winrate including no losses vs Zerg (still at 77% if you include the first 3 games of Gillette). In addition he won himself 3 MSLs and 1 OSL + an OSL 3rd place during his first 1,5 year or so of playing. Up til after he won EVER he was still sitting at a 70,4% winrate over 160+ games. A true beast. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4830 Posts
On June 09 2009 14:10 tree.hugger wrote: I can't understand why people keep repeating that  Flash is in a slump. Since the last PR, he has gone 4-2, losing to  Stork and JangBi on one awful night. Since then, he overwhelmed fantasy with flawless play, and beat Leta convincingly in a long game. Not to mention, he's beat the players he should normally beat. Flash hasn't been a devastating as... say,  EffOrt, but how you can put Leta above him, especially after their recent head-to-head is beyond me. Point is, Flash is not flashy, but he's winning. He deserves the number one Terran slot, I think that's fourth. 4-2 is not so good, but I'd be more concerned with Flash failing hard at his non-mirror matches. The last good Zerg he beat was YellOw[arnc], at the beginning of March. The last good Protoss he beat was Kal, in February. And he's only about even with the other top TvT players, most of whom can beat good players in more than one match-up... Skyhigh and Leta could reasonably be placed above him. | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On June 09 2009 17:43 Severedevil wrote: 4-2 is not so good, but I'd be more concerned with Flash failing hard at his non-mirror matches. The last good Zerg he beat was YellOw[arnc], at the beginning of March. The last good Protoss he beat was Kal, in February. And he's only about even with the other top TvT players, most of whom can beat good players in more than one match-up... Skyhigh and Leta could reasonably be placed above him. Because Leta beat so many big names? | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=95053 | ||
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okum
France5777 Posts
On June 09 2009 17:43 Severedevil wrote: 4-2 is not so good, but I'd be more concerned with Flash failing hard at his non-mirror matches. The last good Zerg he beat was YellOw[arnc], at the beginning of March. The last good Protoss he beat was Kal, in February. And he's only about even with the other top TvT players, most of whom can beat good players in more than one match-up... Skyhigh and Leta could reasonably be placed above him. Just a few weeks ago, it was Flash's TvT that was said to be failing. He must've been practicing that too much recently  (And right now his TvT seems invincible.)It can be argued that Flash is in a semi-slump against Z. He recently lost to Jaedong, though so did Leta. He lost to Effort, but so does everyone else right now. I'm actually more worried about his two recent games on Destination which both left something to be desired. I get the impression Flash is trying too hard to play nonstandard. He should quit trying to copy Fantasy's (third most overrated player ever) shitty builds and take a hint from Leta or Hwasin instead. Flash has the control and game sense to play straight-up TvZ as well as any other player. Flash had a bad day against Stork and JangBi; this by no way means he can't beat good P's. But yeah, he needs to do it. Leta recently lost to Bisu, Jaedong and Flash, in that order; it's hard to argue that he's doing better than Flash against top players right now. Whether or not one only counts the most recent results, Flash's weakest matchup (vZ) remains stronger than Leta's weakest (vP). Leta is definitely not more likely than Flash to beat a top P. I haven't watched Skyhigh closely enough to have a strong opinion. From the statistics, his TvZ looks very strong (only two recent losses on possibly slightly Z favored God's Garden). He has a good recent record against P, but not against any good player except possibly Kal (sorry Best, you suck). I see no evidence that he's stronger vs top P's than Flash is. Fantasy, as already mentioned, sucks. A bunch of other terrans are doing decently right now, but honestly don't have that much to show. In conclusion, given Flash's mirror form, I think he deserves to be promoted back to #1 terran. He has to up his game one level to challenge Bisu and Jaedong, though. Effort is given at #3. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On June 09 2009 20:43 Geo.Rion wrote: did you guys read this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=95053 yeah i read it. finally i dont have to defend jaedong anymore from people calling bisu better;) also, disciple yeah 70+ % over the last 100 games is rediculous. If there could be 2 bonjwas at the same time, bisu and jaedong would be it. Only player who was ever more dominant was iloveoov, as mentioned, but it was so long ago and the skill is so much higher right now that jaedong and bisu's dominance is even more unlikely. | ||
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Nylan
United States795 Posts
On June 09 2009 21:33 StylishVODs wrote: yeah i read it. finally i dont have to defend jaedong anymore from people calling bisu better;) Only if you don't consider GOM proof that Jaedong is better | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On June 10 2009 01:58 Nylan wrote: Only if you don't consider GOM proof that Jaedong is better Nah i just consider taht game not really valuable information, since jaedong accidently canceled his spire. So basing any information on who is better atm from that game is wrong;) They're equally good but im a jaedong fan so i say hes better. | ||
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MuffinDude
United States3837 Posts
On June 09 2009 21:33 StylishVODs wrote: yeah i read it. finally i dont have to defend jaedong anymore from people calling bisu better;) also, disciple yeah 70+ % over the last 100 games is rediculous. If there could be 2 bonjwas at the same time, bisu and jaedong would be it. Only player who was ever more dominant was iloveoov, as mentioned, but it was so long ago and the skill is so much higher right now that jaedong and bisu's dominance is even more unlikely. I think its proof that bisu is better than jaedong, who makes a noob mistake like canceling a spire. In a progame, some mistakes you just can't make and jaedong made one of those mistakes. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On June 10 2009 04:43 MuffinDude wrote: I think its proof that bisu is better than jaedong, who makes a noob mistake like canceling a spire. In a progame, some mistakes you just can't make and jaedong made one of those mistakes. like Savior and Lux forgetting ling upgrade made them worse players? | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On June 10 2009 04:43 MuffinDude wrote: I think its proof that bisu is better than jaedong, who makes a noob mistake like canceling a spire. In a progame, some mistakes you just can't make and jaedong made one of those mistakes. No its not;) He made a mistake he normally doesnt do. If he makes that mistake 1 game out of 100 and that one game leads to defeat it doesnt matter much.. | ||
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LucasWoJ
United States936 Posts
On June 10 2009 04:43 MuffinDude wrote: I think its proof that bisu is better than jaedong, who makes a noob mistake like canceling a spire. In a progame, some mistakes you just can't make and jaedong made one of those mistakes. Just like bisu not holding the ramp on andromeda? Yup, that's clear evidence to me that Jaedong> Bisu. That's the end of it. You see how stupid this logic is with my counterexample, right? | ||
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On June 10 2009 04:55 Geo.Rion wrote: like Savior and Lux forgetting ling upgrade made them worse players? Actually, yes, if it cost them games. Stork forgetting goon range would make him a "worse" player if it cost him the game. Bisu losing that probe retardedly, only to get raped by lings made him a "worse" player if it cost him the game. Players making dumb mistakes that cost them the game obviously is a negative reflection upon them. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On June 10 2009 07:25 Sentenal wrote: Actually, yes, if it cost them games. Stork forgetting goon range would make him a "worse" player if it cost him the game. Bisu losing that probe retardedly, only to get raped by lings made him a "worse" player if it cost him the game. Players making dumb mistakes that cost them the game obviously is a negative reflection upon them. Yeah but the whole issue here is comparing two players. Jaedong does a mistake in a game, that he rarely ever does. This game he ends up losing. That doesn't make his opponent a better player than him. | ||
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Nylan
United States795 Posts
On June 10 2009 04:34 StylishVODs wrote: Nah i just consider taht game not really valuable information, since jaedong accidently canceled his spire. So basing any information on who is better atm from that game is wrong;) They're equally good but im a jaedong fan so i say hes better. Which means you can't consider Jaedong's GOM Bo5 win valuable information since it was entirely because of a simple probe mistake. "So basing any information on who is better atm from that game is wrong;)" :p | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On June 10 2009 08:54 StylishVODs wrote: Yeah but the whole issue here is comparing two players. Jaedong does a mistake in a game, that he rarely ever does. This game he ends up losing. That doesn't make his opponent a better player than him. I'm not really sure where you are coming from. Are you saying that since Jaedong doesn't normally make mistakes like that, the loss shouldn't count? Or are you just saying that since it was just a dumb mistake that shouldn't reflect upon comparing who is better between Bisu and Jaedong? If it is the latter, would you say the same thing about Bisu's dumb mistake in game 5 of their GOM show match? | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
Same goes for 5th game of the Bo5 ofcourse. That game didn't determine anything. These players are pretty much equal atm, and all their games turn out pretty onesided too. | ||
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