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On June 10 2009 17:13 JWD wrote:
So does anyone want to talk about how much tonight's PL results fucked with what looked like a pretty simple PR just a few hours ago?
I don't really think it made much difference.
In fact it made some things easier. Stork now definitely makes top 10 whilst Jangbi doesn't.
Fantasy gets it together and retains a respectable spot.
Flash wins again to cement a high spot. Violet shows what we all knew anyway; that he isn't a proven winner yet, so he gets a low spot.
You simply CANNOT put Effort above Jaedong.
When Jaedong was beating entire teams in the winners league, Effort could barely win a game.
Jaedong also took the match for Oz anyway, beating SkyHigh in the ace. CJ had the advantage of knowing for sure that Jaedong would play in the ace and still they couldn't beat him. And how about that ace win against Leta, that was great too.
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Light is also a good contender for no10/9 spot + CNBC. He went 6-0 in PL with solid play including a win over Zero in BR. His play in OSL was not impressive at all though, his builds were quite terrible, and Yarnc mauled him, but again, Yarnc is playing the best ZvT right now vs mech. So look at him JWD before making it. Top 3 is though:
1)BIsu
2)JD
3)Effort
This is no question. Also the following players are on the PR for sure:
Violet,Stork,Flash,Leta,Fantasy
Zero is also out of the PR no question.
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I don't really see why fantasy should get a clear position on the PR, he is 3-3 since the last PR.
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effort is on a streak, can he keep it up? im not so sure about that.
If jaedong/bisu was performing abit worse than normal, i'd put effort on nr1, but both jaedong and bisu are still owning it up, its just that this month efforts records alone is abit better than both of them.
effort should take the 3rd spot and if he continues for another month he might take a higher spot IF he keeps getting better results than jaedong and bisu.
for a newcomer to be ranked above bisu and jaedong when they're perfoming as good as this, he needs to atleast win a title or to beat jaedong or bisu in a Bo5.
I admit that its a hard choice, because efforts results lately is pretty rediculous. But you have to face the fact that we have the two modern bonjwas playing extremely well right now.
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New PR?
hint:
Effort should be 3rd
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On June 10 2009 17:38 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2009 17:13 JWD wrote:
So does anyone want to talk about how much tonight's PL results fucked with what looked like a pretty simple PR just a few hours ago? I don't really think it made much difference. In fact it made some things easier. Stork now definitely makes top 10 whilst Jangbi doesn't. Fantasy gets it together and retains a respectable spot. Flash wins again to cement a high spot. Violet shows what we all knew anyway; that he isn't a proven winner yet, so he gets a low spot. You simply CANNOT put Effort above Jaedong. When Jaedong was beating entire teams in the winners league, Effort could barely win a game. Jaedong also took the match for Oz anyway, beating SkyHigh in the ace. CJ had the advantage of knowing for sure that Jaedong would play in the ace and still they couldn't beat him. And how about that ace win against Leta, that was great too.
While I agree EffOrt shouldn't be above JD on the basis of one game, this PR isn't about the Winners League. If you base it purely on current PL results, Bisu beat both JD and EffOrt, EffOrt beat JD but not Bisu, and JD lost to both the other two. With all three on similar streaks, Bisu > EffOrt > Jaedong isn't too off the wall even if Jaedong won the ace and Effort wasn't even sent out.
Of course, if you incorporate leagues (which I'm assuming you agree we should)... Jaedong and Bisu are heavy favorites to win OSL and MSL (and, for Jaedong, GOM), while EffOrt - because he's relatively new - is behind Flash at the least, and possibly players like Leta, Stork, and even fantasy as well. The distance in individual leagues means - to me at least - that Jaedong still is way ahead of Effort.
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On June 10 2009 23:07 Musoeun wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2009 17:38 Klive5ive wrote:On June 10 2009 17:13 JWD wrote:
So does anyone want to talk about how much tonight's PL results fucked with what looked like a pretty simple PR just a few hours ago? I don't really think it made much difference. In fact it made some things easier. Stork now definitely makes top 10 whilst Jangbi doesn't. Fantasy gets it together and retains a respectable spot. Flash wins again to cement a high spot. Violet shows what we all knew anyway; that he isn't a proven winner yet, so he gets a low spot. You simply CANNOT put Effort above Jaedong. When Jaedong was beating entire teams in the winners league, Effort could barely win a game. Jaedong also took the match for Oz anyway, beating SkyHigh in the ace. CJ had the advantage of knowing for sure that Jaedong would play in the ace and still they couldn't beat him. And how about that ace win against Leta, that was great too. While I agree EffOrt shouldn't be above JD on the basis of one game, this PR isn't about the Winners League. If you base it purely on current PL results, Bisu beat both JD and EffOrt, EffOrt beat JD but not Bisu, and JD lost to both the other two. With all three on similar streaks, Bisu > EffOrt > Jaedong isn't too off the wall even if Jaedong won the ace and Effort wasn't even sent out. Of course, if you incorporate leagues (which I'm assuming you agree we should)... Jaedong and Bisu are heavy favorites to win OSL and MSL (and, for Jaedong, GOM), while EffOrt - because he's relatively new - is behind Flash at the least, and possibly players like Leta, Stork, and even fantasy as well. The distance in individual leagues means - to me at least - that Jaedong still is way ahead of Effort.
I was just using Winners League as an example of how Jaedong has been consistently excellent and that you have to take that into consideration.
Other examples are the fact he's OSL champion, all the other pro-gamers think he's amazing and Oz are somehow no.1 in the Proleague despite JD being their only viable Ace.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
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Yeah I'd be very happy with that. It's almost exactly the same as the one I posted 1 page ago. (we have Violet and Fantasy switched).
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I just dont see why Flash on 4th. Even Stork was doing better than him. They are both 7-3 in their last 10, Stork's opponents are probably tougher, including a win against Flash, and he has an upcoming match in the OSL whihc should be a walk in the park. Flash's TvT looked as it should, he did not play vZ (which is suppoused to be his worst mu) too much, and got wiped out by the Khan tosses, even dropped a game against Shuttle, though he beat him after all, so that's not a big deal. But still, Stork > Flash right now. Violet on 7th is fine, Fantasy on 8th as well, 9th 10th places are hard to give out as always.
These recent games dont really change anything. Bisu and JD lost one game against a tough opponent while they had to practice for the ace match as well, totally acceptable losses. So we remain with the Bisu > JD HB'sR game, which determins the first two palces. IF Effort was better than JD, they would have sent him on Desti. CJ coaches arent as dumb as SKT's, they send for the ace match the one who has the most chanse against JD, Skyhigh. And he lost too. + Show Spoiler +(I'm 99% sure Effort would have lost, JD looked really angry and played insanely well in the ace game)
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On June 11 2009 02:23 Geo.Rion wrote:I just dont see why Flash on 4th. Even Stork was doing better than him. They are both 7-3 in their last 10, Stork's opponents are probably tougher, including a win against Flash, and he has an upcoming match in the OSL whihc should be a walk in the park. Flash's TvT looked as it should, he did not play vZ (which is suppoused to be his worst mu) too much, and got wiped out by the Khan tosses, even dropped a game against Shuttle, though he beat him after all, so that's not a big deal. But still, Stork > Flash right now. Violet on 7th is fine, Fantasy on 8th as well, 9th 10th places are hard to give out as always. These recent games dont really change anything. Bisu and JD lost one game against a tough opponent while they had to practice for the ace match as well, totally acceptable losses. So we remain with the Bisu > JD HB'sR game, which determins the first two palces. IF Effort was better than JD, they would have sent him on Desti. CJ coaches arent as dumb as SKT's, they send for the ace match the one who has the most chanse against JD, Skyhigh. And he lost too. + Show Spoiler +(I'm 99% sure Effort would have lost, JD looked really angry and played insanely well in the ace game)
Good post, I think maybe you're right.
I guess a part of me thought Stork had lost it when Jangbi showed him up in the OSL, but beating Bisu proves that just isn't the case.
It's especially impressive since Bisu had recently said Stork was his rival. You think he'd make sure he won that game :p
My reasoning for putting Flash high is.. because he's Flash. He has the best overall record of the Terran players and he did beat Fantasy, Leta and Skyhigh this month.
However, I would totally cool with Stork at 4 because he is an awesome player.. a genius in fact.
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Flash also has Gom to prepare for, so he has a much tighter schedule than stork and still does as good as him. That's why he would deserve #4 imo.
And why fantasy above Skyhigh?
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I agree with the above posters. The games tonight should not change anything: Bisu>JD>Effort. Bisu and JD both did not disappoint, they lost against great players (every once in a while, JD has to lose a zvz) and showed excellent performances in the ace-matches. Effort may be in unbelievable shape right now, but he has yet to prove himself in individual leagues before a slightly better record may put him above the other two. More so when these have been sucessful go-to guys for their teams the entire month.
On a different note, I believe you should place Stork high (maybe around #5). He has a good record and you can easily see that he gets his shit together again. The win against Bisu was of course a little favoured by a positional advantage, but he also played flawlessly (while Bisu was making mistakes). I was really impressed.
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Skyhigh has put up better results than fantasy all month and suddenly he should drop behind fantasy?
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Yeah, I really don't see Fantasy being above Skyhigh. He's just underperformed too much this month for one game to wipe that away.
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Whatever the ranking is, I want Much for CBNC for severely picking up his game. :>
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On June 11 2009 05:47 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Yeah, I really don't see Fantasy being above Skyhigh. He's just underperformed too much this month for one game to wipe that away.
Well let's not forget his impressive OSL performances and the fact he was 6-0 last month (excluding the final).
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It's just a combination of Skyhigh just playing better than Fantasy for the entirety of the month except for last night.
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June tenth is over for most Europeans, you have failed them JWD!
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EPT
