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okum
France5778 Posts
On June 03 2009 01:52 samachking wrote: You mean Flash should be ranked higher had he played a long game of sloppy execution?even his game vs Fantasy was a short game of perfect execution by Flash. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On June 03 2009 01:30 StylishVODs wrote: I would rate fantasy abit higher than that, he's still one of the best players atm. Yeah you're right. He's had a really sucky month though. Looking at it Violet looks too high as well. On June 03 2009 01:52 samachking wrote: Flash should definetly not move up, his wins are not impressive, and he got mauled by Effort/Stork/Jangbi, even his game vs Fantasy was a short game of perfect execution by Flash. Edit: My personal PR would be 1)Jaedong 2)Bisu 3)Effort 4)Leta 5)Fantasy 6)Flash 7)Violet 8)Stork 9)Skyhigh 10)Zero/Kwanro I think it's hard to put Flash below Fantasy since he beat him this month and Fantasy has lost to Hogil, Calm and Pure. Maybe we can compromise and put him at 5th :p #1 (Z)  Jaedong #2 (P)  Bisu #3 (Z) EffOrt #4 (T)  Leta #5 (T) Flash#6 (T) fantasy #7 (P) Stork #8 (P) Violet #9 (T) sKyHigh #10 (Z) Kwanro | ||
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
On June 02 2009 18:45 Tyxiquale wrote: u know what? i'm really impressed with how you've handled the shit and criticism that people's thrown ur way.. gluck for this month's PR i agree. if you get pissed just rank MuMyung as #1 and Rock as #2 to get back at people | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On June 03 2009 00:19 Klive5ive wrote: I agree, people keep making these stupid arguments. There should be no issue of someone being "hard to displace" in the PR. Just put the best player at the moment in there. I never said Bisu is "hard to displace". I simply said he has looked every bit as impressive (to me, mind you, this is all opinion) as Jaedong and without a head-to-head, I can't say that Jaedong is better. So why demote Bisu? | ||
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samachking
Bahrain4949 Posts
On June 03 2009 03:34 tree.hugger wrote: I never said Bisu is "hard to displace". I simply said he has looked every bit as impressive (to me, mind you, this is all opinion) as Jaedong and without a head-to-head, I can't say that Jaedong is better. So why demote Bisu? *Sigh* Regardless of the GOM matchup, let us resort to this even when its not televised and only practice: "As of now, Jaedong is slightly ahead on head to head score. When we asked if things were any different during practice, “I lost all the games” Bisu remarked stiffly. Jaedong laughed awkwardly and mentioned that he thinks he may have lost some of them. It seems Bisu remembers the encounter during practice more clearly." And talking about displacement is also against the previous PR, as JD got dethroned the month he won the OSL in without any displacement reason ,just underperforming. Granted Bisu isnt underperforming, just JD is performing at his level, which puts him on the throne for now. | ||
Jonvvv
Norway1530 Posts
On June 03 2009 03:40 samachking wrote: *Sigh* Regardless of the GOM matchup, let us resort to this even when its not televised and only practice: "As of now, Jaedong is slightly ahead on head to head score. When we asked if things were any different during practice, “I lost all the games” Bisu remarked stiffly. Jaedong laughed awkwardly and mentioned that he thinks he may have lost some of them. It seems Bisu remembers the encounter during practice more clearly." And talking about displacement is also against the previous PR, as JD got dethroned the month he won the OSL in without any displacement reason ,just underperforming. Granted Bisu isnt underperforming, just JD is performing at his level, which puts him on the throne for now. "Did they practice with each other before then? They never requested practice games personally, but a practice session between the two had been arranged by the team staff before. This happened when Bisu just transferred to SK Telecom T1, so it was over a year ago." | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On June 03 2009 03:34 tree.hugger wrote: I never said Bisu is "hard to displace". I simply said he has looked every bit as impressive (to me, mind you, this is all opinion) as Jaedong and without a head-to-head, I can't say that Jaedong is better. So why demote Bisu? Your argument is flawed. You're saying Bisu should stay top because him and Jaedong are equal. But how can two players who have vastly different results be exactly equal? Calling them equal is just a cop-out because you don't want to make the difficult decision. Basically, either argue Bisu > Jaedong or stop making daft posts. | ||
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traced
1739 Posts
they're close enough that if one of them tanks a couple of games it would probably be enough for the other to take the 1st slot | ||
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Orbifold
United States1922 Posts
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
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Orbifold
United States1922 Posts
/fanboism | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On June 03 2009 05:39 Dazed_Spy wrote: Bisu should remain number one on the PR. Jaedong went 2-1 against jjonga and 2-2 against movie. His zvp has just been too inconsistent. Compare that to Bisu's matchups, there has not been a weak game, not a weak matchup, nothing. Perfection. No, that was for the current PR. Jaedong is 7-1 since last PR and Bisu 4-1. 1 loss each, both playing great. | ||
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tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On June 03 2009 04:08 Klive5ive wrote: Your argument is flawed. You're saying Bisu should stay top because him and Jaedong are equal. But how can two players who have vastly different results be exactly equal? Calling them equal is just a cop-out because you don't want to make the difficult decision. Basically, either argue Bisu > Jaedong or stop making daft posts. Woah, woah, woah. Easy there, what you call a cop-out is what I'd call nuance. I don't know who is the better player, because their results are excellent, and because I don't have a recent enough head-to-head to go on. Is that so absurd? I know of no mathematical formula to calculate their respective "power" so if, in my opinion, they're too-close-to-call, then I'll keep the order I already have. Again, in the absence of definitive proof, I'd keep Bisu at #1. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On June 03 2009 06:11 tree.hugger wrote: That makes no sense. Woah, woah, woah. Easy there, what you call a cop-out is what I'd call nuance. On June 03 2009 06:11 tree.hugger wrote: Yes. You don't need a recent head-to-head. Their results are not equally excellent and that is the real point. If you can't make a decision then you shouldn't be posting in this thread.I don't know who is the better player, because their results are excellent, and because I don't have a recent enough head-to-head to go on. Is that so absurd? On June 03 2009 06:11 tree.hugger wrote: The human mind is a fantastic averaging machine, use it.I know of no mathematical formula to calculate their respective "power" | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
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tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On June 03 2009 06:37 Sentenal wrote: SKT1 is playing Oz this week, aren't they? Lets hope for a Bisu vs Jaedong, so the #1 on the rank can be clear cut. Agreed. In general, everyone probably roots for Bisu v. Jaedong. Klive5ive, I don't know what I've done to make you so angry here... you have an opinion that (I think this right, no?) Jaedong is clearly better than Bisu. I am not so sure. You seem to suggest that I have no right to be unsure about who is better, as if the answer to that question were cut and dry, black and white. What I see are two excellent starcraft players, both capable of beating each other on any map, at any time. If that's not two evenly matched opponents, then I guess I can't give you any better conditions. Your suggestion, however, that I have no right to post (As something fun to be discussed) my thoughts is totally out-of-line, and completely contrary to the point of this forum. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On June 03 2009 09:18 tree.hugger wrote: Agreed. In general, everyone probably roots for Bisu v. Jaedong. Klive5ive, I don't know what I've done to make you so angry here... you have an opinion that (I think this right, no?) Jaedong is clearly better than Bisu. I am not so sure. You seem to suggest that I have no right to be unsure about who is better, as if the answer to that question were cut and dry, black and white. What I see are two excellent starcraft players, both capable of beating each other on any map, at any time. If that's not two evenly matched opponents, then I guess I can't give you any better conditions. Your suggestion, however, that I have no right to post (As something fun to be discussed) my thoughts is totally out-of-line, and completely contrary to the point of this forum. Apparently, the only people allowed to post in this thread, are fanboys or prophets. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On June 03 2009 06:11 StylishVODs wrote: 2-1 against Jjonga was this PR. Jjonga is bad. Jaedong's 7-1 record since the last PR has been against scrubs, excluding great and Leta [calm is no scrub, but his zvz is, obviously]. Bisu's opponents were not the cream of the crop either. All I am saying is, that this PR, Jaedong and Bisu have not shown anything different than they did the last PR. Jaedong and Bisu are still more than one step above everyone else, and they continue to bash down on low level to high level players. Nothing suggests either ones momentum or abilities has changed significantly since the last PR. The reason I brought up Jjonga is simply that: Jaedong's zvt is fan-fucking-tastic. His zvz the best in history. His zvp is, like last month, capable of beating bad to mediocre players, yet oddly, seems capable of losing to them as well. I'm not convinced that ATM Jaedong is as well rounded as Bisu. No, that was for the current PR. Jaedong is 7-1 since last PR and Bisu 4-1. 1 loss each, both playing great. This is an extremely hard statement to make/properly justify given that they are only playing some games in PL. There is little opportunity to prove themselves either way. And unfortunately, unless Jaedong can prove hes better, hes stuck at 2nd [in my opinion]. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On June 03 2009 09:49 Dazed_Spy wrote: 2-1 against Jjonga was this PR. Jjonga is bad. Jaedong's 7-1 record since the last PR has been against scrubs, excluding great and Leta [calm is no scrub, but his zvz is, obviously]. Bisu's opponents were not the cream of the crop either. All I am saying is, that this PR, Jaedong and Bisu have not shown anything different than they did the last PR. Jaedong and Bisu are still more than one step above everyone else, and they continue to bash down on low level to high level players. Nothing suggests either ones momentum or abilities has changed significantly since the last PR. The reason I brought up Jjonga is simply that: Jaedong's zvt is fan-fucking-tastic. His zvz the best in history. His zvp is, like last month, capable of beating bad to mediocre players, yet oddly, seems capable of losing to them as well. I'm not convinced that ATM Jaedong is as well rounded as Bisu. This is an extremely hard statement to make/properly justify given that they are only playing some games in PL. There is little opportunity to prove themselves either way. And unfortunately, unless Jaedong can prove hes better, hes stuck at 2nd [in my opinion]. Yeah I was referring to the 2-2 movie statement. I agree that Jaedong sometimes loses to protosses. I think Jaedong and Bisu are almost equal, only difference now is that Jaedong is 7-1 while bisu is 4-1. And their last encounter he won, and coming from OSL victory... It's hard to rank those two right now. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
I'm just looking forward to SKT1 vs Oz. Hopefully there will be a clear-cut #1 after that. | ||
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