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On May 12 2009 04:08 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2009 03:03 Nylan wrote:On May 11 2009 13:25 Avidkeystamper wrote:
I'm pretty sure this is the power rank, and not the creativity rank. "Power?" Why is seperate from ELO then? Hmm? Because statistics alone aren't what makes a player great. Because ELO totally ignores how they play, you can play godly without too much creativity. And the ELO ranking is way off in some cases, for example just look at Iris, he's 7th or so, and players who are on a roll in the PL aren't even in the top 10/20/30 like Hogil and many others But this has been discussed for one million times already, Power rank does not have that much to do with ELO, and nothing to do with Kespa rankings
Yes exactly 
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The power rank as I've always understood it is who is the most powerful player at the moment. Not who is the most creative, who is the most fun to watch or even who just happened to win a league or qualify for a league. The person on top of the power rank should be the progamer everyone is the most afraid of playing.
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On May 12 2009 05:15 Darth Peter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2009 02:35 iCCup.d(O.o)a wrote:On May 11 2009 22:11 Darth Peter wrote:On May 11 2009 22:05 iCCup.d(O.o)a wrote:On May 11 2009 20:51 Darth Peter wrote:On May 11 2009 19:52 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On May 11 2009 16:56 fanatacist wrote:On May 11 2009 16:48 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:I'm really glad none of you have any chance at taking over the PR in my absence  Even after the last 2 bio games you think that Fantasy is a scarier, more well-rounded, and more unbeatable opponent than Bisu? you think that two inconsequential losses from a player who created and uses heavily modified mech builds that are safe and effective rather than upmagic and every other terran''s style of hoping to catch the zerg with their pants down... you think those two losses mean more than the other games he's played lately? this is why i said i'm glad. anything i say goes in one ear and out the other with you guys, but you won't watch the games themselves, or if you do, you don't understand what you're seeing. No one is playing anywhere near Fantasy's level right now and it's a damn shame that so many people have forgotten what makes a great player great. it sure as hell ain't proleague statistics. Inconsequental losses? If those are inconsequential losses,than Jaedongs's are as well,and Bisu's sloppy plays against Backho and Shuttle and Light. Everything is inconsequential. I am sorry to say,but for the first time you don't make any sense. I am glad that you don't write the PR as well. Is this a joke? Lol. He said he is not going to write the PR because of RL problems,so he will find somebody qualified. If you already knew that please tell me what was so funny about my post because my explaining in English is not the best,and if you point out what's funny,perhaps I can rephrase it. You said you don't write which implies that the person does not write them IE somebody else does. He most certainly writes PR's simply not this next one. I meant to respond to his words that" I am glad none of you will write the next PR while I'm away", and Ia said I am glad too,because you do not write the PR.
Than what you mean to say is I am glad you will not be writing the PR. What you said assumes past tense as well. Sorry I'm a dick sometimes
On May 12 2009 04:08 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2009 03:03 Nylan wrote:On May 11 2009 13:25 Avidkeystamper wrote:
I'm pretty sure this is the power rank, and not the creativity rank. "Power?" Why is seperate from ELO then? Hmm? Because statistics alone aren't what makes a player great. Because ELO totally ignores how they play, you can play godly without too much creativity. And the ELO ranking is way off in some cases, for example just look at Iris, he's 7th or so, and players who are on a roll in the PL aren't even in the top 10/20/30 like Hogil and many others But this has been discussed for one million times already, Power rank does not have that much to do with ELO, and nothing to do with Kespa rankings
Sarcasm detector is way off.
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On May 12 2009 03:03 Nylan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2009 13:25 Avidkeystamper wrote:
I'm pretty sure this is the power rank, and not the creativity rank. "Power?" Why is seperate from ELO then? Hmm? Because statistics alone aren't what makes a player great.
Clearly the measure of how a player plays is divided into only creativity and statistics. -.-
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On May 12 2009 05:39 fusionsdf wrote:
The power rank as I've always understood it is who is the most powerful player at the moment. Not who is the most creative, who is the most fun to watch or even who just happened to win a league or qualify for a league. The person on top of the power rank should be the progamer everyone is the most afraid of playing.
QFT
Also someone mentioned that Bisu's games against Light, Shuttle and Backho were sloppy. While I agree his game against Backho was sub-par, I felt his game against Light and Shuttle (except for losing those goons at his 3rd) were simply high-level games played against people who had practiced very hard to gun him down. Shuttle played extremely well and made almost no mistakes, and he would have won if not for Bisu's clutch nexus snipe. Against Light Bisu pulled off so many recalls I lost count. Maybe they weren't all effective, but the effectiveness of a recall can't solely be attributed to "sloppiness", as there are so many factors the Protoss user can't control for. I thought Light played extremely well. He's no pushover and can occasionally raise his game to unprecedented heights.
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Que: FakeSteve!!
latent v FS round 62! fight!
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On May 11 2009 20:51 Darth Peter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2009 19:52 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On May 11 2009 16:56 fanatacist wrote:On May 11 2009 16:48 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:I'm really glad none of you have any chance at taking over the PR in my absence Even after the last 2 bio games you think that Fantasy is a scarier, more well-rounded, and more unbeatable opponent than Bisu? you think that two inconsequential losses from a player who created and uses heavily modified mech builds that are safe and effective rather than upmagic and every other terran''s style of hoping to catch the zerg with their pants down... you think those two losses mean more than the other games he's played lately? this is why i said i'm glad. anything i say goes in one ear and out the other with you guys, but you won't watch the games themselves, or if you do, you don't understand what you're seeing. No one is playing anywhere near Fantasy's level right now and it's a damn shame that so many people have forgotten what makes a great player great. it sure as hell ain't proleague statistics. Inconsequental losses? If those are inconsequential losses,than Jaedongs's are as well,and Bisu's sloppy plays against Backho and Shuttle and Light. Everything is inconsequential. I am sorry to say,but for the first time you don't make any sense. I am glad that you don't write the PR as well.
Attention idiot: Bisu and Jaedong's recent losses are inconsequential. All three of them are playing very well, Fantasy is playing by far the best of the three.
You can't take what I say and make it like I'm saying something completely different.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On May 11 2009 22:37 samachking wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2009 21:44 Neptuneajax wrote:
Since the last PR was post on April 10th
Jaedong has gone 7-5, with 5 of these wins in his best matchup ZvZ. He lost a ZvZ, and lost to players the caliber of ganzi and movie.
Fantasy has gone 6-2 with win over Sea and Jaedong himself, however with lossed to rising Zerg stars, Calm and Hogil
Bisu has gone 8-1 with a loss to cheese from By.Great. He be beat players the likes of Light, Calm, Zero, and Leta, all of whom have been playing very well.
Make of that what you will..... Fantasy 8raxed Sea in his nat, granted Bisu cheesed Leta too, but has been winging and pulling things out and winning. Also to Steve about creativity: Isnt Leta's TvZ something more original and powerful that Fantasy ever does, and it is his own build that no one else can mimic as well. Make fun of Upmagic as much as you want, but he has helped modify Fantasy's build after incruit to create the standard TvZ build that was used last season. I am not talking about the vult harass into Valk/M&M, but the build where you go speed vults to harass and pressure into Mass Goli, few tanks. JD's new response to the mech build, the 2hat Den/Muta seems to be doing well against all of fantasy's mech variations, including the Valk/M&M build where Z counters by massing lurkers to counter. Shouldnt Jaedong get credit for providing a powerful counter for Zs to the build instead of using 3hat everytime?
what?! every unconventional build leta has ever done has come from Upmagic and Lomo are you kidding me 
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...Are you really going to use that argument? First of all, not every unconventional build is from upmagic. Second, even if it was, why would it matter? This is the power rank, not the creativitiy rank, and is based on who is the most scary/awe inspiring/powerful, not who we happen to like or like to watch. Third, fantasy? You mean the guy who gets builds fed regularly to him by boxer and iloveoov? Somehow that warrants fantasy being first while the blanket statement that leta gets some of his builds from upmagic is a strike against him?
Look, I dont think there has been anyone in this thread who agrees with you that fantasy was obviously the most powerful player last month. He certainly competes for it, but you're acting like everyone who thinks it should be bisu or jaedong instead only looks at TLPD and never actually watches any games.
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On May 12 2009 11:40 fusionsdf wrote:
...Are you really going to use that argument? First of all, not every unconventional build is from upmagic. Second, even if it was, why would it matter? This is the power rank, not the creativitiy rank, and is based on who is the most scary/awe inspiring/powerful, not who we happen to like or like to watch. Third, fantasy? You mean the guy who gets builds fed regularly to him by boxer and iloveoov? Somehow that warrants fantasy being first while the blanket statement that leta gets some of his builds from upmagic is a strike against him?
Look, I dont think there has been anyone in this thread who agrees with you that fantasy was obviously the most powerful player last month. He certainly competes for it, but you're acting like everyone who thinks it should be bisu or jaedong instead only looks at TLPD and never actually watches any games.
Have you forgotten? Anyone that disagrees with FS in terms of gameplay is inexperienced and a retard in comparison to his overwhelming StarCraft knowledge, we are mere peons in comparison and our opinions are worth less than the dirt we stand on.
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Fantasy's play was not any more awe-inspiring over the last month than Bisu's or Jaedong's. I also don't understand why creativity in builds is a tool for measuring the strength of a player, when ultimately any strategy that gets results (read: Bisu) is equally effective.
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On May 12 2009 12:32 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2009 11:40 fusionsdf wrote:
...Are you really going to use that argument? First of all, not every unconventional build is from upmagic. Second, even if it was, why would it matter? This is the power rank, not the creativitiy rank, and is based on who is the most scary/awe inspiring/powerful, not who we happen to like or like to watch. Third, fantasy? You mean the guy who gets builds fed regularly to him by boxer and iloveoov? Somehow that warrants fantasy being first while the blanket statement that leta gets some of his builds from upmagic is a strike against him?
Look, I dont think there has been anyone in this thread who agrees with you that fantasy was obviously the most powerful player last month. He certainly competes for it, but you're acting like everyone who thinks it should be bisu or jaedong instead only looks at TLPD and never actually watches any games. Have you forgotten? Anyone that disagrees with FS in terms of gameplay is inexperienced and a retard in comparison to his overwhelming StarCraft knowledge, we are mere peons in comparison and our opinions are worth less than the dirt we stand on.
Exactly. Peons don't practice with the likes of SEA[SHIELD] AND SAINT[Z-ZONE].
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On May 12 2009 11:40 fusionsdf wrote:
...Are you really going to use that argument? First of all, not every unconventional build is from upmagic. Second, even if it was, why would it matter? This is the power rank, not the creativitiy rank, and is based on who is the most scary/awe inspiring/powerful, not who we happen to like or like to watch. Third, fantasy? You mean the guy who gets builds fed regularly to him by boxer and iloveoov? Somehow that warrants fantasy being first while the blanket statement that leta gets some of his builds from upmagic is a strike against him?
Look, I dont think there has been anyone in this thread who agrees with you that fantasy was obviously the most powerful player last month. He certainly competes for it, but you're acting like everyone who thinks it should be bisu or jaedong instead only looks at TLPD and never actually watches any games.
You asked if Leta's TvZ was more original and powerful than Fantasy's, that's all I answered. It definitely is not, nowhere near. How could you think so?
The entire thing with people saying Fantasy "gets fed builds from boxer and iloveoov" as justification for their low opinion of him is the biggest line of bullshit I've ever heard. There's a huge difference between seeing another pro do something and emulating it, and working with a coach to create something entirely new.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On May 12 2009 12:49 NathanSC wrote:
Fantasy's play was not any more awe-inspiring over the last month than Bisu's or Jaedong's. I also don't understand why creativity in builds is a tool for measuring the strength of a player, when ultimately any strategy that gets results (read: Bisu) is equally effective.
Bisu's play has not had the level of finesse and utter dominance that Fantasy's games have.
Watch some fucking games you heathens! Don't watch two Bisu wins and Fantasy's last two losses and think that's enough! Don't look at TLPD and assess the name value of their respective opponents! WATCH THE GAMES.
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Kay.
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God Fantasy has terrible MnM control.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
cool go back farther than two games you dunce!!!!!!
ps: i know i'm being a jerk if i had time to go into detail on this i'd be writing the power rank hahah
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Yeah it's cool. Everyone has their reasons, but blanket saying "You're all clueless and have no idea who is the best!" when quite a few might be just as knowledgeable about the game as you demands some mean sarcasm!
I don't entirely disagree with Fantasy being at the top, but I do disagree with how you say it's clear cut he's playing the best. He's playing good enough to be in the running for the top, in which is creativity and unexpected builds could push him over the slightly more predictable Jaedong and Bisu.
edit: to clarify even more, I think people are kind of overreacting to your overreaction. You've long been known as...boisterous, to put it politely, and people should expect when you think someone is at the top, regardless of the gap, you're so sure of it that you will bite someone's jugular out if they so much as raise a finger against you.
That and general ignorance to your fervor lead to almost knee-jerk counter arguments, especially following a month where the #1 was so clear cut it wasn't even close to a challenge (Jaedong at the time of the last PR was playing better starcraft than anyone ever has in the history of the game, as far as I'm concerned) and no one really had much to argue with.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On May 12 2009 15:15 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Yeah it's cool. Everyone has their reasons, but blanket saying "You're all clueless and have no idea who is the best!" when quite a few might be just as knowledgeable about the game as you demands some mean sarcasm!
I don't entirely disagree with Fantasy being at the top, but I do disagree with how you say it's clear cut he's playing the best. He's playing good enough to be in the running for the top, in which is creativity and unexpected builds could push him over the slightly more predictable Jaedong and Bisu.
edit: to clarify even more, I think people are kind of overreacting to your overreaction. You've long been known as...boisterous, to put it politely, and people should expect when you think someone is at the top, regardless of the gap, you're so sure of it that you will bite someone's jugular out if they so much as raise a finger against you.
That and general ignorance to your fervor lead to almost knee-jerk counter arguments, especially following a month where the #1 was so clear cut it wasn't even close to a challenge (Jaedong at the time of the last PR was playing better starcraft than anyone ever has in the history of the game, as far as I'm concerned) and no one really had much to argue with.
uhhhh no one knows as much as me
maybe you passed over the words 'sea[shield] and saint[z-zone]' in more_minerals's post????
and yeah i always vehemently defend the #1 choice, to the grave, mine or yours. I'll raise hell if my stand-in doesn't see it the same way
in all seriousness though, the edge fantasy has is in execution. during his game against frozean he basically just 'decided' before the match to overwhelm frozean with macro, and that's exactly what happened. that is definitely not fantasy's normal style. during the game against zergbong, fantasy was on the ropes due to a clever 1hatch lurker build. he turned what would be a scraping comeback victory by any other top terran into a complete blowout, like the lurkers didn't bother him at all. he is incredible.
edit: zergbong, not oversky. i always type the one name when i mean the other with these two
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On May 12 2009 15:36 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2009 15:15 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Yeah it's cool. Everyone has their reasons, but blanket saying "You're all clueless and have no idea who is the best!" when quite a few might be just as knowledgeable about the game as you demands some mean sarcasm!
I don't entirely disagree with Fantasy being at the top, but I do disagree with how you say it's clear cut he's playing the best. He's playing good enough to be in the running for the top, in which is creativity and unexpected builds could push him over the slightly more predictable Jaedong and Bisu.
edit: to clarify even more, I think people are kind of overreacting to your overreaction. You've long been known as...boisterous, to put it politely, and people should expect when you think someone is at the top, regardless of the gap, you're so sure of it that you will bite someone's jugular out if they so much as raise a finger against you.
That and general ignorance to your fervor lead to almost knee-jerk counter arguments, especially following a month where the #1 was so clear cut it wasn't even close to a challenge (Jaedong at the time of the last PR was playing better starcraft than anyone ever has in the history of the game, as far as I'm concerned) and no one really had much to argue with. uhhhh no one knows as much as me maybe you passed over the words 'sea[shield] and saint[z-zone]' in more_minerals's post???? and yeah i always vehemently defend the #1 choice, to the grave, mine or yours. I'll raise hell if my stand-in doesn't see it the same way in all seriousness though, the edge fantasy has is in execution. during his game against frozean he basically just 'decided' before the match to overwhelm frozean with macro, and that's exactly what happened. that is definitely not fantasy's normal style. during the game against oversky, fantasy was on the ropes due to a clever 1hatch lurker build. he turned what would be a scraping comeback victory by any other top terran into a complete blowout, like the lurkers didn't bother him at all. he is incredible.
Yeah, it's pretty funny. You're like some iconic ragemachine here, but a total sweetheart on somethingawful. 
And there we go, that's what I was looking for! "Edge" as opposed to "GOD FANTASY COULD FONDLE A SUPER MODEL, PUNCH A NAZI, AND PLAY WITH HIS FEET RIGHT NOW AND RIP JAEDONG AND BISU APART IN A 1v2!"
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On May 12 2009 15:43 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2009 15:36 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On May 12 2009 15:15 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Yeah it's cool. Everyone has their reasons, but blanket saying "You're all clueless and have no idea who is the best!" when quite a few might be just as knowledgeable about the game as you demands some mean sarcasm!
I don't entirely disagree with Fantasy being at the top, but I do disagree with how you say it's clear cut he's playing the best. He's playing good enough to be in the running for the top, in which is creativity and unexpected builds could push him over the slightly more predictable Jaedong and Bisu.
edit: to clarify even more, I think people are kind of overreacting to your overreaction. You've long been known as...boisterous, to put it politely, and people should expect when you think someone is at the top, regardless of the gap, you're so sure of it that you will bite someone's jugular out if they so much as raise a finger against you.
That and general ignorance to your fervor lead to almost knee-jerk counter arguments, especially following a month where the #1 was so clear cut it wasn't even close to a challenge (Jaedong at the time of the last PR was playing better starcraft than anyone ever has in the history of the game, as far as I'm concerned) and no one really had much to argue with. uhhhh no one knows as much as me maybe you passed over the words 'sea[shield] and saint[z-zone]' in more_minerals's post???? and yeah i always vehemently defend the #1 choice, to the grave, mine or yours. I'll raise hell if my stand-in doesn't see it the same way in all seriousness though, the edge fantasy has is in execution. during his game against frozean he basically just 'decided' before the match to overwhelm frozean with macro, and that's exactly what happened. that is definitely not fantasy's normal style. during the game against oversky, fantasy was on the ropes due to a clever 1hatch lurker build. he turned what would be a scraping comeback victory by any other top terran into a complete blowout, like the lurkers didn't bother him at all. he is incredible. Yeah, it's pretty funny. You're like some iconic ragemachine here, but a total sweetheart on somethingawful. And there we go, that's what I was looking for! "Edge" as opposed to "GOD FANTASY COULD FONDLE A SUPER MODEL, PUNCH A NAZI, AND PLAY WITH HIS FEET RIGHT NOW AND RIP JAEDONG AND BISU APART IN A 1v2!"
i try to be a good representative of tl and starcraft outside of teamliquid itself
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EPT
