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Valhalla18444 Posts
On March 01 2009 20:56 Malinor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 20:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
There is absolutely no conclusion that can be taken from that series, guys. Both players absolutely dominated two games each through flawless execution of their prepared builds. If the two players who deserve #1 and #2 (if Flash would still be in only one league, these spots wouldn't be set in stone imo) play a series on basically the last day, then the winner needs to get the first spot in my opinion. You are absoulutely right, the series did not show who is the best player. Although the games were mostly one-sided, it was incredible to see how either of them used tiny mistakes of the other to totally dominate. However, a win is a win is a win. The winner needs to be first. Results matter.
that's not how the power rank works. if it was, whoever won the latest major league would be #1 every month and everyone else would be ranked according to how far they went in those leagues. that's just silly.
by your logic we could just automate this entire process using TLPD and have an accurate rank. nothing is so simple
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On March 01 2009 20:56 Darth Peter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 20:55 Scorch wrote:
I think that, despite being knocked out of both leagues, Flash is the better player than Jangbi, and works for his team like a horse. He's 18-7 in February, with a cool 14-2 in Winner's league against tough opponents. Jangbi is great too and has more success in leagues, but from a pure skill point of view, Flash is superior. That doesn't make him a hotter player right now,that his skills are supposedly better. You are ranked based on how well and effictively can you play,not how skilled you are supposed to be.
That's a matter of definition. If I go with Manifesto's Darth Vader lineup of doom, I find Flash to be the scarier player than Jangbi. Meaning that I'd rather play against Jangbi if my life depended on it. It's debatable of course.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
Players are ranked by how well they DO play over a month, not how well they COULD play. Jangbi has played much better than Flash this month.
If you asked me who the most skilled player on the scene right now is, I'd tell you its Flash without a moment's hesitation. But that needs to be displayed in the games he plays.
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On March 01 2009 20:58 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 20:56 Malinor wrote:On March 01 2009 20:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
There is absolutely no conclusion that can be taken from that series, guys. Both players absolutely dominated two games each through flawless execution of their prepared builds. If the two players who deserve #1 and #2 (if Flash would still be in only one league, these spots wouldn't be set in stone imo) play a series on basically the last day, then the winner needs to get the first spot in my opinion. You are absoulutely right, the series did not show who is the best player. Although the games were mostly one-sided, it was incredible to see how either of them used tiny mistakes of the other to totally dominate. However, a win is a win is a win. The winner needs to be first. Results matter. that's not how the power rank works. if it was, whoever won the latest major league would be #1 every month and everyone else would be ranked according to how far they went in those leagues. that's just silly. by your logic we could just automate this entire process using TLPD and have an accurate rank. nothing is so simple
That is of course not what I meant. In my opinion their performances this month have been comparably good. Flash and JD where dominating WL, Bisu not so much, but hell, he won a tournament and played a really good OSL.
So Flash is out of both leagues, so he does not matter anymore.
My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
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On March 01 2009 20:53 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
uhhh okay apparently it isn't clear? the top 3 is bisu, jaedong, and jangbi. how could it be anything else?
Just in case you were going to *waste like 3 lines out of 5, of the Bisu #1 spot text, on why he is #1 and Jaedong isn't, because of that Special event (when I remember most people in past PRs agreeing on stuff in the style of 'who cares Flash won GSI its meaningless'), no need imo :-) Not when so much can be writen on Bisu's games this month, his WL results etc.
It should be very so clear why he's #1, and only Bisu-haters would start flaming with the special event justifications. If anything it only made Bisu being #1 that much clearer.
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On March 01 2009 20:53 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
uhhh okay apparently it isn't clear? the top 3 is bisu, jaedong, and jangbi. how could it be anything else?
I am a big JD and zerg fan and I absolutely approve of this. Both JD and Bisu showed today that if you slip up for one single second you are going to die in a game against them. However the rest of the month has showed Bisu doing less mistakes than Jaedong so despite the fact that JD won the series today, he is by no means a scarier player than bisu, especially since I feel that it is easier to "terran" snipe JD than it is to "anything" snipe Bisu (last part is entirely subjective though).
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On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 20:58 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On March 01 2009 20:56 Malinor wrote:On March 01 2009 20:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
There is absolutely no conclusion that can be taken from that series, guys. Both players absolutely dominated two games each through flawless execution of their prepared builds. If the two players who deserve #1 and #2 (if Flash would still be in only one league, these spots wouldn't be set in stone imo) play a series on basically the last day, then the winner needs to get the first spot in my opinion. You are absoulutely right, the series did not show who is the best player. Although the games were mostly one-sided, it was incredible to see how either of them used tiny mistakes of the other to totally dominate. However, a win is a win is a win. The winner needs to be first. Results matter. that's not how the power rank works. if it was, whoever won the latest major league would be #1 every month and everyone else would be ranked according to how far they went in those leagues. that's just silly. by your logic we could just automate this entire process using TLPD and have an accurate rank. nothing is so simple That is of course not what I meant. In my opinion their performances this month have been comparably good. Flash and JD where dominating WL, Bisu not so much, but hell, he won a tournament and played a really good OSL. So Flash is out of both leagues, so he does not matter anymore. My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
How can you claim that Bisu is not dominating the WL? Please check the stats before writing.
I just checked them and Bisu has 15 wins against 4 losses last month and Jaedong has 14 wins against 4 losses.
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On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote:
My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side...
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On March 01 2009 21:14 VioleTAK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote:
My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side...
It would have if it had been a one-sided rape by Jaedong. You can't easily say that #1 is the better player when he's just been owned by #2. Since that didn't happen and Bisu was ahead in achievements the rest of the month, he gets #1 of course.
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On March 01 2009 21:13 abakben wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote:On March 01 2009 20:58 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On March 01 2009 20:56 Malinor wrote:On March 01 2009 20:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
There is absolutely no conclusion that can be taken from that series, guys. Both players absolutely dominated two games each through flawless execution of their prepared builds. If the two players who deserve #1 and #2 (if Flash would still be in only one league, these spots wouldn't be set in stone imo) play a series on basically the last day, then the winner needs to get the first spot in my opinion. You are absoulutely right, the series did not show who is the best player. Although the games were mostly one-sided, it was incredible to see how either of them used tiny mistakes of the other to totally dominate. However, a win is a win is a win. The winner needs to be first. Results matter. that's not how the power rank works. if it was, whoever won the latest major league would be #1 every month and everyone else would be ranked according to how far they went in those leagues. that's just silly. by your logic we could just automate this entire process using TLPD and have an accurate rank. nothing is so simple That is of course not what I meant. In my opinion their performances this month have been comparably good. Flash and JD where dominating WL, Bisu not so much, but hell, he won a tournament and played a really good OSL. So Flash is out of both leagues, so he does not matter anymore. My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot. How can you claim that Bisu is not dominating the WL? Please check the stats before writing. I just checked them and Bisu has 15 wins against 4 losses last month and Jaedong has 14 wins against 4 losses.
Yeah you're right... I guess I wasn't aware enough of the all-kill+3kill in the end, making his stats so much better then they were before.
So basically we have a tournament win vs a showmatch win, which I guess makes Bisu being #1 much more understandable (to myself). I still would do it differently though, if two titans clash and one comes out ahead he should be #1. But as Fakesteve said, if this is not the way the rankings are done, then thats ok.
Don't get me wrong, I am not a blind JD fanboy, I personally believe that Bisu right now all around is slightly the better player. I just believe that the best of 5 should account for way more. I know I will be called out "showmatch" 100times. Well, this showmatch was the talk of the town for two weeks and the forum-thread has gotten 81pages during the series, so I just disagree.
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On March 01 2009 21:11 VioleTAK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 20:53 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
uhhh okay apparently it isn't clear? the top 3 is bisu, jaedong, and jangbi. how could it be anything else? Just in case you were going to *waste like 3 lines out of 5, of the Bisu #1 spot text, on why he is #1 and Jaedong isn't, because of that Special event (when I remember past PRs simply saying things like "who cares Flash won GSI its meaningless"), no need imo :-) Not when so much can be writen on Bisu's games this month, his WL results etc. It should be very so clear why he's #1, and only Bisu-haters would start flaming with the special event justifications. If anything it only made Bisu being #1 that much clearer.
I disagree,
I agree with bisu being #1 but I actually think that this special event proved that Bisu isn`t clearly #1.
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I hope you give Stork a break and put him in the power rank again I know he's sucked in proleague but he's still in both leagues and went 3-1 vZ the other night only losing on Tears of the Moon.
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@Jaeden:
we all know... Bisu isn't clearly #1 and Jaedong's poo smells like flowers... anything else!?
sorry for being a JD-hater :D
just imagine JD playing forgg...
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On March 01 2009 21:14 VioleTAK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote:
My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side...
Well its not Jaedong making that huge blunder but Bisu . Games like this need to be taken in to account more , if you think that the games ended in a draw i don't , because Jaedong won the psychological warfare and thus the last game . Which means that Jaedong's nerves are stronger then Bisu in a series .
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On March 01 2009 22:11 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 21:14 VioleTAK wrote:On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote:
My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side... Well its not Jaedong making that huge blunder but Bisu . Games like this need to be taken in to account more , if you think that the games ended in a draw i don't , because Jaedong won the psychological warfare and thus the last game . Which means that Jaedong's nerves are stronger then Bisu in a series .
you're reading way too much into that game
how can you watch the four games before that one and come to that conclusion? Bisu doesn't have nerve problems, he's got three gold medals already. there is absolutely no way Bisu "choked" or "lost because of nerves" or "psychological warfare". He fucked up, and Jaedong killed him. It was a terrible game.
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On March 01 2009 22:11 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 21:14 VioleTAK wrote:On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote:
My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side... Well its not Jaedong making that huge blunder but Bisu . Games like this need to be taken in to account more , if you think that the games ended in a draw i don't , because Jaedong won the psychological warfare and thus the last game . Which means that Jaedong's nerves are stronger then Bisu in a series .
Bisu fucked up and yes his superness should be somewhat lessened for this reason. However not so much that it makes up for Bisu's tournament win this month etc. The best argument that could be made for Jaedong topping Bisu in PR after tonight's game is game 2 imo. Because as jaedong played that game I am 95% certain no protoss in the world could touch him and that adds quite a bit to his aura of fearsomeness.
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On March 01 2009 22:14 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 22:11 raga4ka wrote:On March 01 2009 21:14 VioleTAK wrote:On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote:
My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side... Well its not Jaedong making that huge blunder but Bisu . Games like this need to be taken in to account more , if you think that the games ended in a draw i don't , because Jaedong won the psychological warfare and thus the last game . Which means that Jaedong's nerves are stronger then Bisu in a series . you're reading way too much into that game how can you watch the four games before that one and come to that conclusion? Bisu doesn't have nerve problems, he's got three gold medals already. there is absolutely no way Bisu "choked" or "lost because of nerves" or "psychological warfare". He fucked up, and Jaedong killed him. It was a terrible game.
Well i can't explain Bisu doing such a mistake otherwise , i'm not telling he choked completely or something like that , but fucking up to block his ramp is pretty big mistake for me to think something else happent at that moment . I just thought that Jaedong had the psychological edge over Bisu in the last game .
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On March 01 2009 22:25 Zinbiel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 22:11 raga4ka wrote:On March 01 2009 21:14 VioleTAK wrote:On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote:
My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side... Well its not Jaedong making that huge blunder but Bisu . Games like this need to be taken in to account more , if you think that the games ended in a draw i don't , because Jaedong won the psychological warfare and thus the last game . Which means that Jaedong's nerves are stronger then Bisu in a series . Bisu fucked up and yes his superness should be somewhat lessened for this reason. However not so much that it makes up for Bisu's tournament win this month etc. The best argument that could be made for Jaedong topping Bisu in PR after tonight's game is game 2 imo. Because as jaedong played that game I am 95% certain no protoss in the world could touch him and that adds quite a bit to his aura of fearsomeness.
I don't think that Jaedong's ZvP is invincible especially after that series . He needs to start dominating protoss like before for me to thing that his ZvP is invincible again . i'm actually worried that Stork might beat him in their upcoming series , i think JD is definitly the favourite , but not by a large margin . Stork's PvZ is not weak although some people make it sound that way .
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On March 01 2009 22:35 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 22:25 Zinbiel wrote:On March 01 2009 22:11 raga4ka wrote:On March 01 2009 21:14 VioleTAK wrote:On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote:
My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side... Well its not Jaedong making that huge blunder but Bisu . Games like this need to be taken in to account more , if you think that the games ended in a draw i don't , because Jaedong won the psychological warfare and thus the last game . Which means that Jaedong's nerves are stronger then Bisu in a series . Bisu fucked up and yes his superness should be somewhat lessened for this reason. However not so much that it makes up for Bisu's tournament win this month etc. The best argument that could be made for Jaedong topping Bisu in PR after tonight's game is game 2 imo. Because as jaedong played that game I am 95% certain no protoss in the world could touch him and that adds quite a bit to his aura of fearsomeness. I don't think that Jaedong's ZvP is invincible especially after that series . He needs to start dominating protoss like before for me to thing that his ZvP is invincible again . i'm actually worried that Stork might beat him in their upcoming series , i think JD is definitly the favourite , but not by a large margin . Stork's PvZ is not weak although some people make it sound that way .
If Jaedong plays even a fraction of how well he played in that series, Stork is completely fucked
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On March 01 2009 22:43 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 22:35 raga4ka wrote:On March 01 2009 22:25 Zinbiel wrote:On March 01 2009 22:11 raga4ka wrote:On March 01 2009 21:14 VioleTAK wrote:On March 01 2009 21:10 Malinor wrote:
My logic is that Bisu and JDs performances have been comparably well this month. And then it comes down to this showmatch. And this is why I think the winner deserves the first spot.
I just don't see how that showmatch tips the scale who so clearly favores Bisu this month onto Jaedong's side... Well its not Jaedong making that huge blunder but Bisu . Games like this need to be taken in to account more , if you think that the games ended in a draw i don't , because Jaedong won the psychological warfare and thus the last game . Which means that Jaedong's nerves are stronger then Bisu in a series . Bisu fucked up and yes his superness should be somewhat lessened for this reason. However not so much that it makes up for Bisu's tournament win this month etc. The best argument that could be made for Jaedong topping Bisu in PR after tonight's game is game 2 imo. Because as jaedong played that game I am 95% certain no protoss in the world could touch him and that adds quite a bit to his aura of fearsomeness. I don't think that Jaedong's ZvP is invincible especially after that series . He needs to start dominating protoss like before for me to thing that his ZvP is invincible again . i'm actually worried that Stork might beat him in their upcoming series , i think JD is definitly the favourite , but not by a large margin . Stork's PvZ is not weak although some people make it sound that way . If Jaedong plays even a fraction of how well he played in that series, Stork is completely fucked
I kind of disagree. I know Bisu was somewhat joking in his "grading" of Jaedong, but Jaedong's macro does suffer in comparison to his other areas. And with preparation(1 game per week format), it's quite possible for Stork to literally practice every single contingency, and stop any early game aggression. Once in the late game, Stork would have enough map control and minimize the weakest part of his PvZ, his lack of game sense.
That said, Stork has to take the series 2-0 because there's no chance for him to win the third game. So when I say Stork has a chance, it's still a very slight one.
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EPT
