EPTAnytime, GGplay, Rock, Free. Those are the better ones of the pack hes beaten. Casy is decent, Dongrae made his way into Survivor so must have some skill, Pure is alright. Not too long ago, Flash 2-0ed Fantasy in GOM. Do you only think wins vs S-class opponents matter or something?
Power Rank 12/14/2008 - Page 26
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
Anytime, GGplay, Rock, Free. Those are the better ones of the pack hes beaten. Casy is decent, Dongrae made his way into Survivor so must have some skill, Pure is alright. Not too long ago, Flash 2-0ed Fantasy in GOM. Do you only think wins vs S-class opponents matter or something? | ||
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
how can u call rock solid ?! ..and JD also beat anytime, who is not solid either. Since the last PR JD has clearly a better record than flash + wins against tougher opponents. Anyway, I`m not arguin` anymore, because I`m aware of Flash's better performance from last month,and yes, u are right, flash can(and will) be put above JD. However, there are still games to go, and Flash could drop a few places if he under-performs...even though Flash beein` at #3 spot doesn`t bother me at all. | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
 It seems like FLash proves himself a bit today by beating Movie and Effort. Effort being apparently 'new hope' of Zergs got beaten soundly. Movie also isn't that bad taking down several top players recently (Stork, Free, Mind). Obviously we will be able to say more about Flash (and Bisu) after their match on Sunday. As someone above wrote: "anything before that is just a speculation"... | ||
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Hugo(Sphere)
United States44 Posts
However being higher on the PR doesnt always mean u are expected to beat a lower ranked player. It is more complicated than that. Totally true. Flash is the favorite against Bisu, I don't care about the ranking or that Bisu is playing overall tops. Flash has always owned him, and he probably will Sunday. If Bisu wins, then Flash should be punished for failing to perform. It's not a number system; there are a dozen factors for a players PR, and that doesn't always translate into a linear A > B > C when it comes to head to head matchups. Just think about Savior playing Terran against Go Rush cause he couldn't beat him with Z, lol. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
Without talking too much about stats, I think atm the strongest players are Bisu, flash, jaedong, best and maybe jangbi. I would include Leta in the very top however i haven't watched too many of his games to really know what i talk about there. But his stats kind of speaks for themselves. | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On December 31 2008 07:36 AnOth3rDAy wrote: I also really don't think that Stork has played well enough to stay #2. Seriously. Without talking too much about stats, I think atm the strongest players are Bisu, flash, jaedong, best and maybe jangbi. I would include Leta in the very top however i haven't watched too many of his games to really know what i talk about there. But his stats kind of speaks for themselves. Hmmmm, I think this was discussed earlier, but I'll comment on it anyway The thing about Leta is that while he does play 'well', he plays totally textbook and unbelievably safe. Even builds most people think are clever in TvZ that he does once in a while have been done to death before and are not huge risks. Leta is slow and methodical, and waits for his opponent to make mistakes rather than creating his own success. So, I'm wary of putting him anywhere near the top 10, because these ARE players who make their own success, so to speak. Leta will need a drastic change in play style to get anywhere in a bo5 against a top player, and I don't think he has it in him. We shall see, and Leta will definitely replace Sea in January, but we shouldn't give too much credit to Leta because of his stats alone. His style of play is great for single games in ProLeague, but a top player may tear him apart by playing unconventionally. We shall see, we shall see. | ||
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F91
New Zealand77 Posts
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
On December 30 2008 00:16 MrHoon wrote: And Geo, its fucking lose not loose. Go easy on people from non-English speaking countries! (Relurks; PR threads make my brain hurt.) | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On December 31 2008 08:48 F91 wrote: i dont think Sea[Shield] deserves to me on the top 10. his recent performance vs Leta was really lame, he gg'ed out wayyy too early, and he always chokes in OSL and MSL. although if he plays as well as he does in proleague he'd be almost unstoppable... Sea played like total ass against Leta, that's certainly true. He played great in Survivor and has had a nice string of victories in ProLeague (snapped by Zero last night!). With the recent resurgence of a few players (Mind mostly) and a bunch of previously unsuccessful players playing exeptionally well (Zero, Sangho) there doesn't seem to be a sensible place for Sea in the top 10 come January. | ||
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Nick_54
United States2230 Posts
On December 31 2008 08:47 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Hmmmm, I think this was discussed earlier, but I'll comment on it anyway The thing about Leta is that while he does play 'well', he plays totally textbook and unbelievably safe. Even builds most people think are clever in TvZ that he does once in a while have been done to death before and are not huge risks. Leta is slow and methodical, and waits for his opponent to make mistakes rather than creating his own success. So, I'm wary of putting him anywhere near the top 10, because these ARE players who make their own success, so to speak. Leta will need a drastic change in play style to get anywhere in a bo5 against a top player, and I don't think he has it in him. We shall see, and Leta will definitely replace Sea in January, but we shouldn't give too much credit to Leta because of his stats alone. His style of play is great for single games in ProLeague, but a top player may tear him apart by playing unconventionally. We shall see, we shall see. Wait, I think Leta has proven top 10 worthy. I mean Sea has been on here several times and hasn't shown any bo3 or bo5 skills his entire life, but his proleague performance is usually enough to get him on the list. Leta should make the list even if it is only the 9 or 10 spot. I mean honestly I don't understand why Leta is losing credibility for playing standard and safe, it is his style and seems to be working for him. I mean I think of all these players Bisu, Stork, Jaedong, and Flash are the only ones that have shown the ability to win bo5s against a top player in their career (FBH has only won 1 bo5, same with Free and Best and only two for Kal and three for Jangbi I believe). I'm not trying to be rude here, but it seems like you are punishing Leta's ranking because you don't like his style as much as other players like Sea. Could you give some sort of example of why you think he will fail against great players? His safe style seemed to work out against players like Best on othello in the past. | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On December 31 2008 09:14 Nick_54 wrote: Wait, I think Leta has proven top 10 worthy. I mean Sea has been on here several times and hasn't shown any bo3 or bo5 skills his entire life, but his proleague performance is usually enough to get him on the list. Leta should make the list even if it is only the 9 or 10 spot. I mean honestly I don't understand why Leta is losing credibility for playing standard and safe, it is his style and seems to be working for him. I mean I think of all these players Bisu, Stork, Jaedong, and Flash are the only ones that have shown the ability to win bo5s against a top player in their career (FBH has only won 1 bo5, same with Free and Best and only two for Kal and three for Jangbi I believe). I'm not trying to be rude here, but it seems like you are punishing Leta's ranking because you don't like his style as much as other players like Sea. Could you give some sort of example of why you think he will fail against great players? His safe style seemed to work out against players like Best on othello in the past. There's a difference between Sea, who plays phenomenally some games (like, better than any other Terran) and plays awful other games, and Leta, who is textbook, safe, and standard. There is a good chance that upon entering a box series his opponent has prepared for, Leta will crash and burn. Like I said, we shall see. Sea loses games because he plays bad. Totally different scenario than what I'm talking about. And I just said that Leta is going to replace Sea in January, so what's the beef? | ||
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Nick_54
United States2230 Posts
On December 31 2008 09:33 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: There's a difference between Sea, who plays phenomenally some games (like, better than any other Terran) and plays awful other games, and Leta, who is textbook, safe, and standard. There is a good chance that upon entering a box series his opponent has prepared for, Leta will crash and burn. Like I said, we shall see. Sea loses games because he plays bad. Totally different scenario than what I'm talking about. And I just said that Leta is going to replace Sea in January, so what's the beef? I guess I think that Leta's style is fine and he mixes it up from time to time. I dont see why he will have a really hard time in the bo series in the individual leagues, like you said I guess we shall see. If he does well if he will move up if not he won't. I also am wondering how much the GOM tournament will influence the ranking. Just as much as the other starleagues? I take it as more about who is playing better atm than "oh OSL is more important than GOM so Stork should stay number 2" or something like that. | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On December 31 2008 09:55 Nick_54 wrote: I guess I think that Leta's style is fine and he mixes it up from time to time. I dont see why he will have a really hard time in the bo series in the individual leagues, like you said I guess we shall see. If he does well if he will move up if not he won't. I also am wondering how much the GOM tournament will influence the ranking. Just as much as the other starleagues? I take it as more about who is playing better atm than "oh OSL is more important than GOM so Stork should stay number 2" or something like that. Well, Leta's absence on the December rank is simply because there were three candidates for the spot, and Sea's games displayed the highest level of skill by far. The next month is an entirely different rank  And yeah, I don't weigh leagues a certain way. It's pretty easy to tell when a player just doesn't prepare for a series, and it's pretty easy to tell when a player loses because he plays awful. Easy to tell the difference between the two, I mean. So while Stork didn't get docked too much for his loss to Kal in MSL, he will certainly be punished for his loss to BackHo, even though MSL is of course a more important league. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Kal>Jaedong lol Maybe people were getting a bit too fired up about Jaedong's supposed return to dominance? But he played well vs Hwasin, so who knows. | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
On December 31 2008 09:33 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: There's a difference between Sea, who plays phenomenally some games (like, better than any other Terran) and plays awful other games, and Leta, who is textbook, safe, and standard. There is a good chance that upon entering a box series his opponent has prepared for, Leta will crash and burn. Like I said, we shall see. Sea loses games because he plays bad. Totally different scenario than what I'm talking about. And I just said that Leta is going to replace Sea in January, so what's the beef? But Leta's not the only one who plays standard and safe though. Flash does it all the time now. Stork until recently dominated silvers using the same boring stuff every game. I'm not saying Leta's on the same level as those two, who are simply flat out better players, but he can apparently beat most people around using that boring style because he doesn't really make mistakes himself. So I don't think it's something to hold it against him. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
On December 31 2008 15:14 Sentenal wrote: Lecaf vs STX spoilers + Show Spoiler + Kal>Jaedong lol Maybe people were getting a bit too fired up about Jaedong's supposed return to dominance? But he played well vs Hwasin, so who knows. + Show Spoiler + Aside from the Guardians and not scanning. The ace match would be top 3 TvZ this year no doubt, spectacular play by both sides and proving that Jaedong's starting a return to dominance. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On December 31 2008 16:43 Avidkeystamper wrote: + Show Spoiler + Aside from the Guardians and not scanning. The ace match would be top 3 TvZ this year no doubt, spectacular play by both sides and proving that Jaedong's starting a return to dominance. + Show Spoiler + Yeah... but it was Hwasin. He did play well, but its not like Hwasin is a top tier Terran. When Jaedong wins, he wins good, but he still lost to Kal, who is probably the weakest Dragon right now. I'd say there is evidence of Jaedong returning to be very good (win vsHwasin), but not returning to being an unbeatable monster (loss to Kal). | ||
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Darth Peter
Romania438 Posts
On December 31 2008 16:49 Sentenal wrote: + Show Spoiler + Yeah... but it was Hwasin. He did play well, but its not like Hwasin is a top tier Terran. + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + When Jaedong wins, he wins good, but he still lost to Kal, who is probably the weakest Dragon right now. I'd say there is evidence of Jaedong returning to be very good (win vsHwasin), but not returning to being an unbeatable monster (loss to Kal). You should know Hwasin is a T v Z killer,always was,so he is a top tier terran in the MU. And Kal. Perhaps he is the weakest of the dragons overall,but his P v Z is second only to Bisu's. It looks like the situation is like past June,when Hwasin owned JD left and right in the Proleague,but when they got to a bo 5,JD raped him,I think the same would happen with Kal. And losing one game to Anybody does not mean he is not back in form,especially if you've watched the games because both of them was great. | ||
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
On December 31 2008 16:49 Sentenal wrote: + Show Spoiler + Yeah... but it was Hwasin. He did play well, but its not like Hwasin is a top tier Terran. When Jaedong wins, he wins good, but he still lost to Kal, who is probably the weakest Dragon right now. I'd say there is evidence of Jaedong returning to be very good (win vsHwasin), but not returning to being an unbeatable monster (loss to Kal). + Show Spoiler [Lecaf vs STX] + no one is unbeatable these days. However (sorry I always disagree with you, lol) Hwasin played great! If ur sayin` that he didn`t play like a top tier terran...it`s just wrong, imo. The vessel control wasn`t the greatest of all, but still, credit to JD for sniping 543295823 vessels also I would like to see FakeSteve's opinion about these games + Show Spoiler + Jd played a wonderful game against Hwasin, but still he lost to Kal and that counts 2 | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
On December 31 2008 16:49 Sentenal wrote: + Show Spoiler + Yeah... but it was Hwasin. He did play well, but its not like Hwasin is a top tier Terran. When Jaedong wins, he wins good, but he still lost to Kal, who is probably the weakest Dragon right now. I'd say there is evidence of Jaedong returning to be very good (win vsHwasin), but not returning to being an unbeatable monster (loss to Kal). Well, we'll see @ his MSL survivor group tomorrow, though + Show Spoiler + JD's performance tonight is definitely a boon for his position on the PR. | ||
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