EPTOn December 11 2008 15:53 bumatlarge wrote:
I don't think Sea haters exist, at least not on the TL boards
I don't think Sea haters exist, at least not on the TL boards
We're not supposed to talk about it, remember what happened to the last--
Power Rank 11/10/2008 - Page 44
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
We're not supposed to talk about it, remember what happened to the last-- | ||
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
Stork and Bisu were neck-to-neck for #1, everyone was arguing Stork has been underperforming after OSL win and Bisu is still on fire after MSL win. Despite that fact, it was still hard to make a choice However, Bisu just recently beat Stork in BO5 at IEF Finals Don't even try to argue IEF is not important or not, what matters is that Stork and Bisu played against each other and they gave us results so Bisu definately should be #1 | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On December 11 2008 17:21 AzureEye wrote: Bisu should definately be #1 next PR Stork and Bisu were neck-to-neck for #1, everyone was arguing Stork has been underperforming after OSL win and Bisu is still on fire after MSL win. Despite that fact, it was still hard to make a choice However, Bisu just recently beat Stork in BO5 at IEF Finals Don't even try to argue IEF is not important or not, what matters is that Stork and Bisu played against each other and they gave us results so Bisu definately should be #1 Was it a bo5? Strange, i only saw 3 games. But yes, they surely took in serious that series agianst each other, who gives a shit about Kespa counts it or not, 40.000$ are 40.000$ dollars, ppl kill for that ammount of money | ||
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CDRdude
United States5625 Posts
On December 11 2008 15:53 bumatlarge wrote: I don't think Sea haters exist, at least not on the TL boards I hate Sea. I hate the way his delicate hands firmly caress the keyboard. I hate the way he gently warms his dainty hands on his red rag. I hate his manly unit control. I hate him so much, I think he should be punished. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
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Ideas
United States8179 Posts
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Darth Peter
Romania438 Posts
On December 12 2008 01:30 Ideas wrote: I don't see how the next PR can not have Yarnc on it. He's been playing absolutely stellar lately Yeah,but so did Effort,Calm,Zero,FBH,Leta,Sea.Really and Pusan. And I am still not impressed by Yarnc's Z v P. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On December 11 2008 06:27 abakben wrote: What did you smoke while writing this ridiculouse shit? I want the same one  Everyone with different oppionons than yourself is smoking something? The losses he got from Jaedong and Horang2 isn't going to change much when he is placed in a PR list imo. They tell nothing about his skill level since any player at any time would ahve lost those games. He was not raped or even outplayed. Darth peter wrote: "I could say that Jaedongs's losses wasn't real losses because if he hadn't committed those stupid mistakes,he could have won" This is not even close to what i said though... flash made a 14 cc, its a risk, not a stupid mistake. Jaeden wrote: "u know that it was really his fault for goin 14CC vs 9pool, right? Every loss counts." Yes it's his fault, every loss counts ofcourse, but some losses counts more or less when making the PR. Usually games that shows a players skill level is the best games for PR decisions. Krigstar wrote: "Even if you show the perfect formula on how you calculate what games are luck and whats skill, its irrelevant and no one should give a shit except those who desperately need retarded arguments to defend their favorite player. What I'm saying is that when you start to value losses differently you just made a statement that you have NO clue of that the game is about." There is a difference between knowing the "perfect formula for luck" and seeing that when someone does 14cc vs 9pool its clearly a BO win and probably wont be considered that much of a loss when making the PR. You say no one should give a shit about in what fashion a player loses a game... i simply do not agree with that statement. I'm pretty decent at playing this game and I've watched ALOT of games. Losses can be valued differently but cannot give different results in a specific match. If you don't know this i think that its you who don't really know what the PR is about. Krigstar wrote; Flash-fans: "BUILDORDER WIN OMG UNLUCKY!" zerg fans: "flash is so predictable." How about an objective point of view? Its OBVIOUSLY a BO win, and OBVIOUSLY not predictable since he hasnt played that map before and his other last 10 TvZ was not a 14CC. Some cases are really obvious man, you shouldnt fight a losing battle. The only thing that might be negative for Flash in the PR from this match is that he might have done the 14CC because of too little preparation for the specific match and therefor he thought he might have to take a risk, but i don't think this is the case. Finally Some of you took it way too litterally. Ofcourse the losses are "real", he obsiously didnt get a win out of them. But think of it. He has only lost 1 straight up skillshoing match in his last 20 games, you cannot deny that. Even if you are unwilling to admit or agree to this, 17-3 is still a rediculous record. Maybe this is not enough to claim Bisu's #1 spot, but its certainly enough to top Stork, who has done nothing special after his OSL win. Some people say, his OSL win should still be counted in the next PR. Why should it? This isn't the kespa ranking... he was great that month, he got #1 spot and he deserved it. He's not great this month, he doesn't deserve the #1 spot and he won't get it. Get it? Also plz no comments about my way of quoting k?:/ | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On December 12 2008 01:56 AnOth3rDAy wrote: Everyone with different oppionons than yourself is smoking something? The losses he got from Jaedong and Horang2 isn't going to change much when he is placed in a PR list imo. They tell nothing about his skill level since any player at any time would ahve lost those games. He was not raped or even outplayed. Darth peter wrote: "I could say that Jaedongs's losses wasn't real losses because if he hadn't committed those stupid mistakes,he could have won" This is not even close to what i said though... flash made a 14 cc, its a risk, not a stupid mistake. Jaeden wrote: "u know that it was really his fault for goin 14CC vs 9pool, right? Every loss counts." Yes it's his fault, every loss counts ofcourse, but some losses counts more or less when making the PR. Usually games that shows a players skill level is the best games for PR decisions. Krigstar wrote: "Even if you show the perfect formula on how you calculate what games are luck and whats skill, its irrelevant and no one should give a shit except those who desperately need retarded arguments to defend their favorite player. What I'm saying is that when you start to value losses differently you just made a statement that you have NO clue of that the game is about." There is a difference between knowing the "perfect formula for luck" and seeing that when someone does 14cc vs 9pool its clearly a BO win and probably wont be considered that much of a loss when making the PR. You say no one should give a shit about in what fashion a player loses a game... i simply do not agree with that statement. I'm pretty decent at playing this game and I've watched ALOT of games. Losses can be valued differently but cannot give different results in a specific match. If you don't know this i think that its you who don't really know what the PR is about. Krigstar wrote; Flash-fans: "BUILDORDER WIN OMG UNLUCKY!" zerg fans: "flash is so predictable." How about an objective point of view? Its OBVIOUSLY a BO win, and OBVIOUSLY not predictable since he hasnt played that map before and his other last 10 TvZ was not a 14CC. Some cases are really obvious man, you shouldnt fight a losing battle. The only thing that might be negative for Flash in the PR from this match is that he might have done the 14CC because of too little preparation for the specific match and therefor he thought he might have to take a risk, but i don't think this is the case. Finally Some of you took it way too litterally. Ofcourse the losses are "real", he obsiously didnt get a win out of them. But think of it. He has only lost 1 straight up skillshoing match in his last 20 games, you cannot deny that. Even if you are unwilling to admit or agree to this, 17-3 is still a rediculous record. Maybe this is not enough to claim Bisu's #1 spot, but its certainly enough to top Stork, who has done nothing special after his OSL win. Some people say, his OSL win should still be counted in the next PR. Why should it? This isn't the kespa ranking... he was great that month, he got #1 spot and he deserved it. He's not great this month, he doesn't deserve the #1 spot and he won't get it. Get it? Also plz no comments about my way of quoting k?:/ Flash will face in PL Jaedong and Stork and most probably Bisu in the GOM, those games will test his current skill level. About the previous game vs JD. Flash almost every game went for cheese or some greedy builds. 9 pool counters both of them quite safely. Flash took a huge risk, even if JD wouldn't go 9 pool, if he had gone 12 hatch and scouted Flash with his first drone even than he would have been behind imo, cuz JD could have done whatever he wanted: go for 2 hatch muta, ling all-in, duble exp etc... That was a bad decision. And don't forget that Flash did not meet too many top tier vT players Fantasy being the only very good vT (or at least used to be), and Free being a very good player overall. Study, Hyvaa, Hiya, Memory, Pure, Chalrenge, Dongrae etc are barely in the A lineup of the proteams, or not at all. His higher level opponents were GGplay, Jaedong, Zero, Fantasy, Free. Beat GGplay, Free and Fantasy (multiple times) lost to JD and Zero. Nobody denies how good Flash is, just dont overrate it, saying he's 17-3 in his last 20 games (btw he's 17-5 in his last 22, kinda unfair to start countig when the win streak begins, those 2 losses were at the same time) | ||
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Ideas
United States8179 Posts
On December 12 2008 01:44 Darth Peter wrote: Yeah,but so did Effort,Calm,Zero,FBH,Leta,Sea.Really and Pusan. And I am still not impressed by Yarnc's Z v P. Kal might not of have played his best game, but it's undeniable that Yarnc played amazing vs Kal in their ace match. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
When im counting his last 20 games, its because before those he wasnt playing that well.. he lost a couple and won a couple and then suddenly he started winning everything. Something happened, he pulled his shit together, thats how strong he is now and those losses shouldnt count anymore in the PR, but in the PR before where he got a low rank. | ||
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Krigstar
Sweden77 Posts
On December 11 2008 06:04 AnOth3rDAy wrote: How about an objective point of view? Its OBVIOUSLY a BO win, and OBVIOUSLY not predictable since he hasnt played that map before and his other last 10 TvZ was not a 14CC. Some cases are really obvious man, you shouldnt fight a losing battle. The only thing that might be negative for Flash in the PR from this match is that he might have done the 14CC because of too little preparation for the specific match and therefor he thought he might have to take a risk, but i don't think this is the case. I see your point, but my point gets through pretty well here too. You claimed he went 17-3, but counting the "real games" he was 17-1. You explained those two losses pretty well and I somewhat agree that those could be mostly luck. The thing is, you said 17-1 and by that you assume all those 17 wins were purely skill based. So that objectiveness you speak of is just..... lol. There are only two choices here. You honestly believe the 17 wins were pure skill or you forgot/didn't bother to look it up. Either way it proves you are extremely biased towards Flash. I was going to illustrate an example again, but what you just did proves my point exactly. You can't be objective by just having an open mind about the game of your choice, but to ALL games. Look at the Sea vs Stork games. Stork is like 100-0 vs Sea and still game after game sea-fans come up with explanations to the losses (luck, BO etc) which by all means may sound reasonable for that specific game, but I don't see them analyze Sea's opponents bad luck when Sea wins. | ||
Aesop
Hungary11305 Posts
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
On December 12 2008 01:56 AnOth3rDAy wrote: This is not even close to what i said though... flash made a 14 cc, its a risk, not a stupid mistake. that was more like a stupid mistake...if u go 14cc for 543963 games in a row, something is really wrong. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
Krigstar, correct, all the 17 wins are probably not pure skill differences. Most of them are though, its just much mroe simple to look at 3 games than all the 17 games.. My point with all the stats and such was so people could easily see that flash is back in business. It's not like i only watched his stats, i watched all his games. He is very good, he deserves top 2 power rank for next month, imo. Im not extremely biased towards flash, simply saying that he's basically winning everything now... I really like jaedong, but i can see his flaws and i wouldnt rank him high atm... im trying to be objective about flash, he is playing good now, and he wins almost every game, has to count for something.. cant be compared to that many progamers right now.. its him and bisu actually. | ||
]343[
United States10328 Posts
btw fakesteve... it's already the 12th T_T | ||
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Darth Peter
Romania438 Posts
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theonemephisto
United States409 Posts
On December 11 2008 13:15 Krigstar wrote: Pretty much all pro-gamers today in all interviews claim that mechanically wise, all A-class gamers are very close to equal now. So if we assume they are right and you believe mind games aren't a significant part of the game then what is? If you think about it for more than 30 seconds you'll realize this is what Starcraft has evolved to. I think mindgames are extremely important, in fact, I was one of the ones arguing that Bisu should be #1 simply because he is probably the best mind-gamer in BoXs in the game right now or close to it. However, though they still exist, I don't think that they mean much in single games unless there's some history between the players (and even then it's questionable). Noone disputes that they play a huge part in the ultimate determination of skill, the single-day Bo5, but I simply can't believe that they come into play in single games. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On December 12 2008 06:17 theonemephisto wrote: I think mindgames are extremely important, in fact, I was one of the ones arguing that Bisu should be #1 simply because he is probably the best mind-gamer in BoXs in the game right now or close to it. However, though they still exist, I don't think that they mean much in single games unless there's some history between the players (and even then it's questionable). Noone disputes that they play a huge part in the ultimate determination of skill, the single-day Bo5, but I simply can't believe that they come into play in single games. Some pro-gamers are owning it up. Its coz they play better, and have better mindgames. Not just one.. most progamers might have close to equal mechanics, but a few of them are just better. flash in his prime, jaedong in his prime, etc etc had better mechanics than all the others. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On December 12 2008 06:08 Darth Peter wrote: This.Now come on Steve. I understand your busy and everything,bu than why not ask Oneother or anybody to do the rankings this month,and perhaps permanently. I see that the PR is such a great pain in the ass for you. You don't have to do it,ask somebody to write it,who actually enjoys it. I mean come on. You do this for the 4th month in a row now. You say that you are going to write the PR,say dates which are bullshit,than comes the 12-13-14th of the month and finally somebody does it for you. And next month,it's the same. I await for the PR since the 1st of December and for your comeback,and yet again you tell us bullshit. You are the best PR writer,but this cannot go on. Please do the rankings,or resign. | ||
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