EPTRE-poll: Do you still think Protoss is too strong in SC2?
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TL.net Bot
TL.net132 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33469 Posts
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Dedraterllaerau
113 Posts
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Hawke0323
6 Posts
TvZ: Overall balanced. The late game zerg is strong but can be countered by two terran players (TY and maru) with ghosts TvP: Toss early attack/defense advantage can easily snowball terran players with stronger units - higher pressure - economy advantage - more and stronger units - higher pressure -... Only a few terran player (TY maru) can break this by defending with fewer units thus they can harass with the rest of units and change the balance. PvZ: Toss early attack/defense advantage grants them with a very strong 7:30 3 immortal push, which is hard to master but commonly exists among korean players. That's why we had 6 toss among top 8 players. There are few zerg players can break this including soo, serral and reynor. Once toss failed to win with that push the game is generally over thanks to the undefeatable zerg late game unit comp. Thus in summery, the problems I believe are: 1. Terran slow mech comp sucks and nothing could save it. It cannot utilize Lanchester first linar formula like the rest of units which is the critical change between sc1 and sc2. A late game siege tank and thor mobility upgrade could be used. 2. Zerg viper and infestor are way too strong especially when mixed together. The emp change is good but toss also need a better way to deal with it. Grant mothership immunity to mind control in addition with higher mobility in order to use it like SC1 arbiter, teleporting units around might be a good way to grant toss players a tool to deal with invincible zerg army. 3. Toss attack/defense upgrade is a huge problem, only seconds to viper+ infestor combo. It grants toss a strong early and mid game, but a weak late game. | ||
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batatm
Israel116 Posts
in the early-mid game it's a risk free tactic with no downsides and therefore it completely dominates the meta. | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
I feel we have a much more subtle situation now but still we have a situation where the strength and timing of the races are too different in ways that is not good for the game. not fun to play, not fun to watch and not good for variation and healthiness of the scene. | ||
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aringadingding
478 Posts
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Jimmon
United States112 Posts
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rasi86
44 Posts
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StarcraftSquall
United States196 Posts
Let’s also not forget: Protoss hasn’t won a premier tournament championship since... when? (I am referring to an IEM Katowice, GSL Code S, WCS Circuit or BlizzCon). Shouldn’t everyone be whining about Zerg for a while instead? They have almost all the trophies this year. 👀 | ||
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kajtarp
Hungary485 Posts
On July 18 2019 13:04 StarcraftSquall wrote: Can we stop picking on Protoss please? They’re constantly getting nerfed, they’re universally hated it seems, and their best player isn’t going to BlizzCon even though he absolutely deserves to based on his performance. Let’s also not forget: Protoss hasn’t won a premier tournament championship since... when? (I am referring to an IEM Katowice, GSL Code S, WCS Circuit or BlizzCon). Shouldn’t everyone be whining about Zerg for a while instead? They have almost all the trophies this year. 👀 I really hate when people bring Circuit in the mix when talking about balance. Circuit terrans in general, but especially after the retirement of Captain America, are 2 leagues below Koreans, except Special. Protosses are not much better either, except maybe Neeb and Showtime, but they are far from the form of their lifetime. Some other protosses have a peak here and there, but then they lack in consistency. WCS is not dominated by Zerg because of balance, but because most of the more talented players are Zergs in Circuit. | ||
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Jj_82
Swaziland419 Posts
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StarcraftSquall
United States196 Posts
On July 19 2019 04:45 Jj_82 wrote: Just a quick reminder that it's not about the winrates in TvP. The matchup just has some serius dumbness in it. Like what each player has to do in order to survive. You could make the same case for ZvP: Protoss almost HAVE to all in because of the Zerg late game. There comes a point where it feels like it’s almost hopeless and you need the other player to mess up to have a chance. I think if you asked most Toss pro players they would probably say that they wish they didn’t have to go earlier all the time: but because of the Infestor and Brood Lord late game combo, what other choice is there? 🤔 | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On July 19 2019 15:42 StarcraftSquall wrote: You could make the same case for ZvP: Protoss almost HAVE to all in because of the Zerg late game. There comes a point where it feels like it’s almost hopeless and you need the other player to mess up to have a chance. I think if you asked most Toss pro players they would probably say that they wish they didn’t have to go earlier all the time: but because of the Infestor and Brood Lord late game combo, what other choice is there? 🤔 The meta is in a dumpster, i think all races can agree on that. | ||
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Psychonian
United States2322 Posts
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General_Winter
United States719 Posts
If blizzard thinks high level balance is Ok and just wants to do something about all the ladder players complaining they should address what is annoying rather than what is strong. | ||
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TheDougler
Canada8306 Posts
Then again, it's just a TL poll so maybe I'm taking this too seriously. | ||
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Corvuuss
Austria354 Posts
On July 26 2019 01:13 TheDougler wrote: Not to be "that guy" but the question "Do you still think Protoss is too strong in SC2?" is sort of loaded like "when did you stop beating your wife?" It implies that we thought Protoss was too strong before when only a slim majority definitively agreed with that. Would have been better to just ask the same question again to see if the results change. Then again, it's just a TL poll so maybe I'm taking this too seriously. How can you ask this question without it being loaded though? (if you want clear answers). Also if we go by the last poll, the majority did say that protoss was too strong. Only 28% said that it wasn't. | ||
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th3st
United States11 Posts
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shaun2301
2 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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shaun2301
2 Posts
On July 28 2019 10:24 th3st wrote: Lol you realize most yes are trolls.. no they arent | ||
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Psychonian
United States2322 Posts
On July 28 2019 12:28 shaun2301 wrote: toss is op and imba, whoever said no are dumb really good way to start your posting on TL | ||
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Dedraterllaerau
113 Posts
On July 28 2019 12:28 shaun2301 wrote: toss is op and imba, whoever said no are dumb Do you also believe the earth is flat? | ||
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Rowrin
United States280 Posts
On July 31 2019 00:48 Dedraterllaerau wrote: Do you also believe the earth is flat? The earth is flat, it's the universe that's curved. | ||
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Dedraterllaerau
113 Posts
On July 31 2019 06:44 Rowrin wrote: The earth is flat, it's the universe that's curved. That's a strong statement considering no one really knows for a fact what the curvature of the universe is. What we do know for a fact is from our perspective and size the earth is not flat, which is what the point is. | ||
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ElFaravahar
3 Posts
That fact make new players get frustrated to try a new race, so... They go protoss, and of course, why not? Is legacy of the void. I'm talking as a low ladder gaming player. As a terran if I let the protoss rich the mid or late game, I'm done, it doesn't matter what do I do, all what the protoss need is a "all in" attack no matter what units he handle, an "all in" is all what he needs to win. Thank you for reading. I don't want Terran or Zerg gets stronger than protoss, just want balance | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States7465 Posts
I think they are both under and over powered at different points. At the top, you don't see the big PvZ unstoppable lategame protoss armies you see at the lower levels. Buffing and nerfing the Stalker, Adept and Templar isn't the solution and I think it is too late to do what is neccessary - reinvent the adept or stalker. When I lose to protoss - it is because I failed to win vs Protoss, not because the Protoss was too godlike for my puny hive to win. Storm owns my bones but that how Zerg life goes. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
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