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4vvhiplash7
South Africa392 Posts
On August 04 2011 16:22 Vasoline73 wrote: Hoejja will be number one in the power rank when he beats Fantasy and Bisu team melee'ing in the ace match. LOL nice! | ||
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
On August 04 2011 16:21 aupstar wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On August 04 2011 15:40 Oystein wrote: Say what? Why do you post so much bullshit that is just plainly wrong? At least check your stats before you post opinions like they are facts. Flash has played a total of 36 games of regular PL (not counting playoffs) this season with 4 of them being ace matches, Bisu has played 40 with 6 of them being Ace matches. Leta has played a total of 30 regular PL games with 1 of them being ace matches. Jaedong is the only one with a bigger workload having played 43 games of regular PL and 6 of them being Ace matches. Your opinion on Bisu`s multitasking leads me to believe you might just be a big troll, but im posting anyway as people might actually believe your statement about others having a harder PL workload when its clearly blatantly wrong. Is it just me or do SKT fans like to make personal attacks...do you really think that will help change my mind? Also, I would like to see how you came to that conclusion. Please link me to the source of your information. I did go through some live report threads but I did not do such a thorough analysis...I saw hardly any ace games with the exceptions being Bisu playing ACE vs airforce and wookie in wemade..lol Quoting to correct wrong information is hardly personal attack. And he was right in that you just randomly threw false information out in hopes of winning arguments. Even after solid numbers have been given to you, you continue to deny it, or make light of the information by indirectly degrading players like Wookie, or the ones from ACE. Also, its not like your beloved Flash doesnt play Ace game vs Air Force ACE. I at least remember that game vs Ggaemo, in the same series that he lost to Much. A quick visit to TLPD would likely reveal all of that statistics that Oystein mentioned. But clearly you either cant be bothered with facts or cant be bothered with the truth. Only thing i see you do is doubting his post, asking for link, without ever trying to justify your opinion with statistics of your own. Bisu: Total games played in SPL 10-11: 40 (35-5) Ace matches: vs Soulkey (26/10) vs Kal (01/12) vs Ggaemo (23/04) vs Zero (04/05) vs Bogus (11/05) vs Wookie (22/06) Flash: Total games played in SPL 10-11 36 (26-10) (stats before playoffs) Ace matches: vs BeSt (16/10) vs Turn (30/11) vs Hydra (01/05) vs Ggaemo (07/05) | ||
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hitthat
Poland2235 Posts
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
On August 04 2011 16:21 aupstar wrote: Is it just me or do SKT fans like to make personal attacks...do you really think that will help change my mind? Also, I would like to see how you came to that conclusion. Please link me to the source of your information. I did go through some live report threads but I did not do such a thorough analysis...I saw hardly any ace games with the exceptions being Bisu playing ACE vs airforce and wookie in wemade..lol So what your saying is that you checked a few LR threads, decided to draw a conclusion from that despite having no idea of the actual numbers and then keep on defending your WRONGLY opinion like its facts? As Ffreak pointed out we have this awesome little thing on TL called TLPD (you have been a member since 07 so I would assume you know about it) where you can get all the info you need if you bother to look, something you clearly have not, and then you still have the balls to call me out on sources despite in the next sentence admitting you had absolutely no idea about what you where talking about in the first place..... Maybe I am a bit rude, it happens in the heat of the moment when im posting, and for that I am sorry if you felt offended, but I will keep on calling out people who speaks out of some fantasy existence without root in the real world. People can have different opinions from me that is fine, but if your gonna post stats\numbers and keep on defending them when people are calling you out on them and they are taking their time to reply to you at least do us a favor and actually check your facts the next time. | ||
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aupstar
Australia912 Posts
On August 04 2011 17:42 Oystein wrote: So what your saying is that you checked a few LR threads, decided to draw a conclusion from that despite having no idea of the actual numbers and then keep on defending your WRONGLY opinion like its facts? As Ffreak pointed out we have this awesome little thing on TL called TLPD (you have been a member since 07 so I would assume you know about it) where you can get all the info you need if you bother to look, something you clearly have not, and then you still have the balls to call me out on sources despite in the next sentence admitting you had absolutely no idea about what you where talking about in the first place..... Maybe I am a bit rude, it happens in the heat of the moment when im posting, and for that I am sorry if you felt offended, but I will keep on calling out people who speaks out of some fantasy existence without root in the real world. People can have different opinions from me that is fine, but if your gonna post stats\numbers and keep on defending them when people are calling you out on them and they are taking their time to reply to you at least do us a favor and actually check your facts the next time. I've found it! http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/leagues/710_Shinhan10-11_Proleague/player_stats Live and learn...peehee I didn't post stats/numbers..I made a generalisation according to the information that I had at the time. I still don't know how to see who played ACE matches and such but given the games that ffreak posted I will admit that I was wrong regarding the ACE match scenario..  Albeit, which shows us that the number of wins is rather close - the win/loss record is as follows: Bisu: 35 - 5 Flash: 32 - 13 | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On August 04 2011 16:21 aupstar wrote: Is it just me or do SKT fans like to make personal attacks...do you really think that will help change my mind? Also, I would like to see how you came to that conclusion. Please link me to the source of your information. I did go through some live report threads but I did not do such a thorough analysis...I saw hardly any ace games with the exceptions being Bisu playing ACE vs airforce and wookie in wemade..lol His source is TLPD, which I dare say you need to visit more frequently... | ||
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aupstar
Australia912 Posts
On August 04 2011 20:12 Mortality wrote: His source is TLPD, which I dare say you need to visit more frequently... And I dare say you should read the posts above you..>_> | ||
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oldgregg
New Zealand1176 Posts
On August 04 2011 12:08 VGhost wrote: For me, if the rank happened now, I would say: 1. Flash 2. Bisu 3. ZerO 4/5/6. Jaedong/Hydra/Soulkey 7. soO 8. Jangbi 9. Light 10. Leta/HoeJJa/roO/Modesty?/other In light of that, I would put Bisu #1, iff Bisu beats at least one S-class opponent: Flash, Stats playing well, HoeJJa's/Action's ZvP if they play at the top of their game AND Flash loses all games (=at least once), especially if he loses to a player who is not Bisu/BeSt/fantasy So we could have: Flash loses, Bisu beats Stats (or other), SKT wins w/o ace OR Bisu beats Flash, SKT wins OR Flash loses, Bisu wins all games, Flash not sent for ace (regardless of team result) What I don't think would give Bisu #1 would be this: Bisu wins a game (even against Flash), Flash loses, and then SKT wins in ace vs. Flash but with Bisu not as ace. If SKT has to play an ace game but doesn't send Bisu (on probably the most balanced PL map atm), they say "we don't think Bisu can beat Flash consistently even though he's our best player," and to me that means Bisu can't be #1. so right now you'd put bisu at number 2 this month even though he has only beaten 3 mediocre opponents so far? how can someone's 'hotness' magically grow when they havent played any games? | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On August 04 2011 21:09 aupstar wrote: And I dare say you should read the posts above you..>_> Don't get sassy after posting post after post of utter bullshit. Edit: regarding rankings, Bisu is not #2 yet. As I've said, as I've been saying, the problem with Bisu is that he isn't playing quality opponents, so this has put him in a holding pattern. Any other top 5 guy who does well automatically goes above Bisu and any that does poorly goes below. The chance to change that is the SPL GF, but if all that happens is Bisu plays an easy opponent and then the series ends without ever going to the ace match, then Bisu continues to be stuck in the holding pattern. I'm hoping for Bisu to at least play Stats or possibly Flash. From the standpoint of the coaching staff, SKT does not want that to happen and KT only wants that to happen if they are going for an aggressive strategy. But there's still a good chance of such a match happening. So we'll see. Right now I go: 1. Flash - don't bother arguing. Flash only loses this position in the circumstances previously discussed. 2. Zero - so dominant these past 3-4 months and against good competition. Just to give a stat for July, 6 wins, 2 losses, including solid wins over Flash and Jangbi (x2). 3. Bisu - stuck in the holding pattern, can move up with wins over STRONG players or down with bad play, but I can't put him above Zero until he does something of note other than squashing weak opponents as if they are D-rank iccup. 4. Hydra - when he's hot, he's hot, when he's not, he's not. A bit of inconsistency, but he only ever loses to very high level play. 5. JD - probably. I might consider bumping him down if I put more thought into this, but his only real weakness is his ZvZ. Apparently while JD is very good at JvZ, he is absolutely awful at ZvZ. Go figure. -----the rest I really need to think about and watch some games to go into in any kind of detail. I am going to say that Killer absolutely needs to be on this rank. The kid has been a hidden gem in 2011, with a whopping 64% win rate, and blasting through an OSL group I did not expect him to survive. | ||
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VGhost
United States3606 Posts
On August 04 2011 22:03 oldgregg wrote: so right now you'd put bisu at number 2 this month even though he has only beaten 3 mediocre opponents so far? how can someone's 'hotness' magically grow when they havent played any games? Basically what TTT said - Hydra and Jaedong have looked a little shaky, and ZerO's really the only other S-class player with recent excellent results. Speaking of which... The reason I have Bisu over ZerO is that Bisu still feels like a better player to me. Yes, ZerO has the MSL final a few months ago, and yes ZerO's proved he can take games off of any of TBLS (not that Stork's been playing up to that billing, but we could substitute Hydra, pretty sure). At the same time, he's got the same most-recent knock on him Bisu does: failing in OSL prelims. And since I think Bisu's better overall atm, I want to put Bisu higher. This may be an over-reaction to ZerO's atrocious loss vs Crazy-Hydra as well. One way or another it's all tentative and hypothetical, of course: Bisu could show up big and solidify at least #2 in the finals, or he could flop vs BarrackS cheesing or something and force me to put ZerO at #2. | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
Here is my before finals ranking, based on the feelings of dominance I got this past month watching these players. Bisu, Soo, and Fantasy could vary here. 1.  Flash2/3  ZerO/ Bisu (depending on Bisu's SPL finals performance)3/4 Bisu/Hydra (ZerO should be above Hydra, but Bisu could be 2,3, or 4)5. Jaedong6. Killer7. n.Die_soO (assuming a good performance in SPL, otherwise lower)8. Light9. HoeJJa6-10 Fantasy. If shows really dominating play in SPL finals he could get 6, if he plays terrible he gets 10, otherwise somewhere in betweenCBNC Neo.G_Soulkey, JangBi, Perfective, Horang2, Bogus | ||
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tofusauce
United States1 Post
Sucks for him... -_- | ||
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
On August 05 2011 04:17 Crisium wrote: So can we all agree Killer needs to be in the top 10 now? I saw personal rankings without him before the STXMC match, but that should erase all doubts. Here is my before finals ranking, based on the feelings of dominance I got this past month watching these players. Bisu, Soo, and Fantasy could vary here. 1. Flash2/3 ZerO/Bisu (depending on Bisu's SPL finals performance)3/4 Bisu/Hydra (ZerO should be above Hydra, but Bisu could be 2,3, or 4)5. Jaedong6. Killer7. n.Die_soO (assuming a good performance in SPL, otherwise lower)8. Light9. HoeJJa6-10 Fantasy. If shows really dominating play in SPL finals he could get 6, if he plays terrible he gets 10, otherwise somewhere in betweenCBNC Neo.G_Soulkey, JangBi, Perfective, Horang2, BogusI don't think the STX masters cup counts towards ELO so I dunno if those results will be taken into account for the PR, but yeah Killer should definitely be in the top 10 after he swept his OSL group clean. | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
On August 05 2011 07:45 red4ce wrote: I don't think the STX masters cup counts towards ELO so I dunno if those results will be taken into account for the PR, but yeah Killer should definitely be in the top 10 after he swept his OSL group clean. You are right that STXMC doesn't count for ELO. But the PR is its own identity, and has used them in the past (I remember a discussion last year as well). Anytime that one player beating another affects your opinion of their current form (or power) then it should count for the PR, hell ya, that's the point. So Bisu's Terran losing to Flash's Protoss in an All Star game doesn't and shouldn't matter, but Killer beating ZerO and Light for a two-kill in STXMC should. Besides, for the September PR we will only have OSL Ro8 (maybe Ro4) and STXMC to go by. So we should certainly count it. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
Pretty sure Ro4 of OSL and opening rounds of MSL happen in August, so there will be results. | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
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Vasoline73
United States7747 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
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Lachrymose
Australia1928 Posts
On August 04 2011 17:54 aupstar wrote: I've found it! http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/leagues/710_Shinhan10-11_Proleague/player_stats Live and learn...peehee I didn't post stats/numbers..I made a generalisation according to the information that I had at the time. I still don't know how to see who played ACE matches and such but given the games that ffreak posted I will admit that I was wrong regarding the ACE match scenario.. Albeit, which shows us that the number of wins is rather close - the win/loss record is as follows: Bisu: 35 - 5 Flash: 32 - 13 Oh man, this is the best. Sometimes Bisu's PL record doesn't count because he played more games than Flash and therefore had more opportunities to get wins. Sometimes Bisu's PL record doesn't count because he played less games than Flash and therefore had an easier schedule. | ||
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