EPTI guess he hasn't changed much.
Power Rank 07/01/2011 - Page 13
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~chut~
France1317 Posts
I guess he hasn't changed much. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5617 Posts
Jangbi vs Jaedong was such a beautiful game. I hope they are both back in top form. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
Also, good job proving that you never read these threads, EVER, since these points have been discussed at length repeatedly and precedents dictate that a player who drops the ball in individual leagues will get punished. I guess Bisu fans really are the most annoying. | ||
vaMpYr
France119 Posts
about PR , TL community seems to have decided that leagues > PL . i can do nothing about that . | ||
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okum
France5779 Posts
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On July 06 2011 02:19 Mortality wrote: Kiante, why the fuck did you have to feed the troll? I thought you had more sense than that. Also, good job proving that you never read these threads, EVER, since these points have been discussed at length repeatedly and precedents dictate that a player who drops the ball in individual leagues will get punished. I guess Bisu fans really are the most annoying. Are you capable of doing anything but insulting people whenever they disagree with you? Every time I've had a discussion with you, that's exactly what you do. Seriously, you have to understand you're not some all-knowing PR sage. You can be wrong. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
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vaMpYr
France119 Posts
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
Bisu = no.1 because of record-breaking performance in PL OVERALL (throughout the season), then necessarily Flash tying Nada title count must be considered as well (and it cannot just count for "1" MSL Gold - though for me that's enough of a reason for his spot). It would be completely inconsistent to take one over the other. Now PR is highly subjective. It takes into account certain objective elements, including but not limited to: winrates, number of wins, ELO, and Starleague advancement... ...as well as certain subjective elements, including but not limited to: quality of wins, quality of losses, quality of opponents (non-ELO based), momentum (whether a player is on-fire or not/hotness), historical performance, and expected standard of performance (emphasis supplied) Now I'm not saying this is the actual formula - clearly the standards of the subjective elements differ, and I could be missing certain concepts in outlining my thoughts. However, I think that anyone arguing against the PR should argue with due respect and consideration to these subjective factors. These subjective factors, and their correlative weight, are what makes the ranking lean in favor of one player, or against one player. Simply put, they involve the discretionary dimension in the PR, a power and a privilege (and a duty) that the PR writer enjoys. True, he can't be arbitrary about this (actually he can, exemplified by no.2 and Fakesteve's Sea for no.1 ranking), but by the same token you cannot really say that he's wrong when he uses that discretion to decide in a ranking you don't agree with. In other words, neither of you have a monopoly of truth, but in a situation where there is really no truth or falsity, but only an exercise of discretion based on certain objective and subjective factors, you'd be silly to argue in absolutes. So while you have the freedom to post your opinion, don't make yourself look like an idiot banging your head against a brick wall. At the very least, use logic and experience, and keep an open mind. That said, Flash is DEFINITELY no.1 (lol). | ||
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vaMpYr
France119 Posts
On July 06 2011 03:28 okum wrote: There's also the quality of opposition to factor in. PL games count more when the stakes high and opponents are good. Bisu got a lot of wins in June but basically didn't beat a single good player (except Wooki). That's not to say consistency against mediocre opponents counts for nothing, but Bisu didn't prove anything with his play in the past month, except for his consistent ability to lose against mediocre players in individual leagues. if i say the game with hiya shows a hiya at his best lvl ? ( one of the best tvp player ) i will look like a complete fool again ? .. one of the highest level of SC ive ever seen , this game was the apogee of bisu's june . but hey , nevermind of what i say , im a complete fool on TL . | ||
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vaMpYr
France119 Posts
On July 06 2011 04:20 Caladbolg wrote: Man, how controversial is this PR? I am thoroughly entertained. Anyway just gonna remind people that if you're going to argue that: Bisu = no.1 because of record-breaking performance in PL OVERALL (throughout the season), then necessarily Flash tying Nada title count must be considered as well (and it cannot just count for "1" MSL Gold - though for me that's enough of a reason for his spot). It would be completely inconsistent to take one over the other. Now PR is highly subjective. It takes into account certain objective elements, including but not limited to: winrates, number of wins, ELO, and Starleague advancement... ...as well as certain subjective elements, including but not limited to: quality of wins, quality of losses, quality of opponents (non-ELO based), momentum (whether a player is on-fire or not/hotness), historical performance, and expected standard of performance (emphasis supplied) Now I'm not saying this is the actual formula - clearly the standards of the subjective elements differ, and I could be missing certain concepts in outlining my thoughts. However, I think that anyone arguing against the PR should argue with due respect and consideration to these subjective factors. These subjective factors, and their correlative weight, are what makes the ranking lean in favor of one player, or against one player. Simply put, they involve the discretionary dimension in the PR, a power and a privilege (and a duty) that the PR writer enjoys. True, he can't be arbitrary about this (actually he can, exemplified by no.2 and Fakesteve's Sea for no.1 ranking), but by the same token you cannot really say that he's wrong when he uses that discretion to decide in a ranking you don't agree with. In other words, neither of you have a monopoly of truth, but in a situation where there is really no truth or falsity, but only an exercise of discretion based on certain objective and subjective factors, you'd be silly to argue in absolutes. So while you have the freedom to post your opinion, don't make yourself look like an idiot banging your head against a brick wall. At the very least, use logic and experience, and keep an open mind. That said, Flash is DEFINITELY no.1 (lol). first intelligent post of the week i think . i think you are true . and i like your line of argument . i will consider it . thanks ! i think im too emotive to speak like you ^^ . i say you GG | ||
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Ryo
8787 Posts
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
I'm still scratching my head to understand why there is a flock of Bisu fans arguing for Bisu being no1 (not just slightly higher, no, but number ONE) when he dropped yet again from OSL against medicore opponents and at the same time Flash tore through MSL with a record 6:0 totally embarrassing Zero and Hydra and tying Nada's record of 6 titles... Sure Bisu beat a few guys in PL and Flash dropped the ball there but damn, to argue that this is why Bisu should be first is simply ridiculous. Flash won the most PL games two years in a row and somehow I haven't see people screaming he should be no1 because of that. | ||
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vaMpYr
France119 Posts
i repeat im NOT a fan of bisu AT ALL . stop talking about "bisu fans" . nobody here said he was a bisu fan . and yes after considering all arguments of this thread , maybe bisu 1# is a little too high due to his OSL fail . but still , flash 1# is the same problem . being 1# with his catastrophic PL month is nonsense . and bisu played better SC than flash , so bisu should be higher . its logic . the 1# spot is hard to choose maybe , it can go to jangbi or maybe jaedong . maybe another one , i dont know . but put flash in there only because his MSL gold is overrated . there should be discussion about it at least . maybe even flash can pretend the 1# spot . but there was too many times that flash is 1# just because he is flash and ect ect . its time to discuss about others possibilities . | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
If Flash had gotten knocked out of OSL then he wouldn't be #1. It's like you keep forgetting that he's in OSL on top of winning MSL, unlike Bisu. Bisu ONLY has PL, plain and simple, and PL is not more important to individual accolades than individual titles. There's a reason it's only you and Kiante who even bothered with saying Flash isn't #1. Also for someone who isn't a Bisu fan, you sure have carried his torch for awhile. Bisu can crush every scrub in proleague he wants, it's not as good as 3-0ing Hydra and Zero when he can't even 2-1 Hyvaa. To me, you seem like less of a fan of a particular player and more of a dissident of Flash. Your signature which you refuse to change is not just proclaiming Jaedong as great, but doing so at the expense of Flash -- there was actually a recent case of this. A guy named GG.NoRe had tons of alt accounts, most glorifying Jaedong and most people considered him just a huge Jaedong fan, but some of his alt accounts were glorifying Bisu at the same time, and ALL of them hating on Flash. Maybe I'm just so freakin paranoid about GG.NoRe that I see him in every post! D: | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
flash sucks in psychologic . flash sucks in creativity . flash sucks in intelligence . flash sucks in mental strenght . he is NOT a micro player like jaedong , bisu or boxer . he loves turtle . he is NOTHING . he just learnt starcraft copying progamers when he was 12 . he just SUCKS compare to jaedong I have no idea why we actually bother responding at all to what he's posting. Goddamnit this thread is ridiculous in the last few pages. | ||
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fallingdream
Romania452 Posts
This whole fiasco is in my opinion the PR writers fault for giving Bisu time and time again the benefit of a doubt and thus deluding his fanbois. | ||
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Yxes2211
United States1587 Posts
On July 06 2011 07:12 vaMpYr wrote: the 2008/2009 PL was dominated by bisu sorry . flash was good too but bisu did better . even jaedong did better with crushing the winners league . i repeat im NOT a fan of bisu AT ALL . stop talking about "bisu fans" . nobody here said he was a bisu fan . and yes after considering all arguments of this thread , maybe bisu 1# is a little too high due to his OSL fail . but still , flash 1# is the same problem . being 1# with his catastrophic PL month is nonsense . and bisu played better SC than flash , so bisu should be higher . its logic . the 1# spot is hard to choose maybe , it can go to jangbi or maybe jaedong . maybe another one , i dont know . but put flash in there only because his MSL gold is overrated . there should be discussion about it at least . maybe even flash can pretend the 1# spot . but there was too many times that flash is 1# just because he is flash and ect ect . its time to discuss about others possibilities . No, your not a Bisu fan you're a Flash anti-fan, and it's not that you have someone in mind that has played better than Flash, you just don't want Flash being number 1. Plain and simple. PR is a monthly ranking, true, but if that term was absolute than JD probably wouldn't have been on last months PR. When it comes to top tier players we give them the benefit of the doubt because they have been so consistent for such a long time. Similarly, when someone has been playing bad for a long time and has a good month, we are reluctant to say they deserve a top spot on the PR simply because it could've just been a good month and we are hesitant to believe it will continue. So lets look at Flash's competition for #1: Bisu: Everything has already been said, great PL results and failed OSL prelims does not a number 1 make. If Bisu was really playing as amazingly as some make him out to be, then why can't he win in SLs? Why can't his play transfer over? I don't know the answer but there plenty of possibilities. Simply put, as impressive as Bisu's PL play is something is obviously wrong somewhere that is not allowing Bisu's play to transfer over from PL to SLs. And honestly it would be nice for him to do something given the amount of Tosses in the current OSL. Jaedong: Jaedong had a sick month... towards the end. You know what was also this month? The worst losing streak of his career. You can't discount that. Plus JD wasn't even IN the MSL anymore because he lost at the end of May to ZerO. Yes he 2-0'd his OSL group convincingly. Yes he went on an 8-game winstreak. But that doesn't make up for his lackluster performance coming into this month. Jangbi: An incredible month for Jangbi no doubt, and I'm loving that he's back. However, one amazing month does not make up for 2 years worth of sub-par performance. I'm sorry, but I don't believe Jangbi deserves a #1 spot for one good month. Simply put, Flash had an amazing MSL run in June. 6-0 speaks for itself against strong competition. Yes he had a poor PL performance, but he also has a pretty significant wrist injury, which leaves me inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. So yes, Flash didn't the same dominating month he's had in the past, but Jaedong and Bisu both had similar problems this month (JD's losing streak and Bisu's OSL fail) and giving #1 to someone who has been extremely inconsistent for a long time is just foolish. And Hydra and ZerO shouldn't take the place of the dude that smashed them 3-0. So I would say the only 2 who have any debatable claim to #1 are: JD and (ugh for arguments sake) Bisu. And when each had similar failures in June, I go with the dude with the gold. Not that this will change anyone's opinions or includes anything that hasn't already been said, but I wanted to post  | ||
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vaMpYr
France119 Posts
and im NOT a bisu fan , im the BIGGEST jaedong fan ever . and im not talking about him here . I think these statements says it all: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- flash sucks in psychologic . flash sucks in creativity . flash sucks in intelligence . flash sucks in mental strenght . he is NOT a micro player like jaedong , bisu or boxer . he loves turtle . he is NOTHING . he just learnt starcraft copying progamers when he was 12 . he just SUCKS compare to jaedong -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have no idea why we actually bother responding at all to what he's posting. Goddamnit this thread is ridiculous in the last few pages. about this , i dont know the relation with this thread . i was expressing my personal feelings about flash , am i free in this world to do this ? i have not insulted anybody and was not direspect anybody . my personal feelings about flash have nothing to do with this thread . i can swear on my computer head that if jaedong won the MSL on a 6 0 record with hard crush vs two very good players exactly like flash did and failed 1 5 on PL in a pathetic way like flash did in the same time bisu or flash crushed PL in a BEAUTIFUL way with a monster jangbi with all that , i would be here to argue that jaedong should not be 1# . | ||
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