EPTPower Rank 05/09/2011 - Page 8
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
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Navi
5286 Posts
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On May 10 2011 13:01 Navi wrote: To be fair though, as was mentioned somewhere in last month's PR discussion (probably in this one as well, although I haven't been able to look at all the pages yet) Bisu had the luxury of being able to prepare for Jaedong / Flash on certain maps whereas JD and Flash had to carry much more of their team and came into the ace probably somewhat tired, having played several games in a row. SLs are definetly a more even playing field for seeing which player has the edge over the other, unless the maps are really atrocious That doesn't work for WL, Oz and KT had plenty of time to prepare while Bisu had to fight their way into the championship. And it's not like they won't focus on Bisu. | ||
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Zaxro
United States261 Posts
On May 10 2011 12:36 Mortality wrote: Hypothetically if Player A goes 2-0 over Player B in MSL but goes 0-8 in his other matches and Player B goes 8-0 in his other matches, would you still want Player A over Player B? Let's be careful with the absolutes here. It's not quite that simple though because it depends on who they are playing against. I mean lets say we are talking about  ZerO as Player A and  Stats as player B (I only chose them so I could use players who are really good/bad in certain matchups).Ok so what if those 8 games effort lost were extremely close games against say of Jaedong,  Light, Flash, Fantasy, Hydra, Leta, BaBy and Sea. So Zero's losses would be all well played games against great players, but they were still losses.While the games Stork won were against Rock, By.Sun, Juni, BarrackS, Light, Pure, sKyHigh and Calm (I never liked the joke Clam but lets assume he played like shit), and most of those matches were fairly close. So Stats would have meh wins against meh players but they are still wins(This is all hypothetical or course, I would be astounded if a player got those kind of matchups and neither is likely for any player who is a candidate for the Power Rank anyhow) Even then I would probably put Stats above Zero, because 8-2 looks a shitton better than 2-8 no matter who they are playing so I guess I do agree with you Mortality. But that is why you can't really look at a single metric to determine the difference between players unless they are essentially equal in all other aspects. It is never as simple as "Flash beat Bisu in a set, thus Bisu should be above Flash" or "Bisu has a better win/loss record thus he should be above Flash" which is what makes the #2 and #3 on this rank so difficult. So yeah I do agree with your statement about not using absolutes when it comes to a Power Ranking (unless a player does something crazy like wining dual golds or all-kills every team he plays that month-then saying they should be #1 as an absolute I would be more OK with). | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
What could tilt the ranks in Flash's favor is the fact that he did advance in the MSL by beating Bisu himself. Hence, against each other, Flash has a definite advantage. However, against the rest of the pro-gamers, Bisu's been less likely to lose, and that tilts it in his favor. Really, you can choose either one of those arguments to justify any ranking. I'm just happy for Jaedong right now. He deserves it after last year's losses to Flash. | ||
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epikAnglory
United States1120 Posts
"If you could call fantasy a Class-S player" -.- | ||
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Dakkas
2550 Posts
On May 10 2011 14:43 iTzAnglory wrote: No offense but I find the writer of this power ranking extremely biased against fantasy, but so is the majority of TeamLiquid, so I guess I will not make a big deal out of it. Bisu being second just seems weird, pretty sure FlaSh is still the better player overall. -.- This is beating a dead horse but it's nothing to do with being a better player overall. Stork and Fantasy are better than a large amount of those on the PR but they aren't on simply for the games they've played in the last month While just about everyone agrees that Flash is better than Bisu, he however hasn't been Ultimate Weaponing everyone like he usually does in the last month | ||
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Striding Strider
United Kingdom787 Posts
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HopLight
Sweden999 Posts
Edit (3-2 if you count the survivor game in March, but that seems a bit too generous.) | ||
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MisteR
Netherlands595 Posts
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Yodo
Russian Federation327 Posts
Power Rank as of 01/01/2011 Flash is 18-2 in Proleague with his only losses coming at the hands of Light and BeSt. Sadly, for the next month or so, Proleague will be Flash's only bragging point. Flash's eliminatation in both the OSL and MSL .... but Flash's eliminations are still pretty shocking, and they're powerful enough to demote him down to #5. Something similar, yeah? You can check this PR thread and be surprised how SKT's fans logic has been changed =) But actually I don't care much about Bisu #2 place. Let Bisu's fans have some joy, while Flash moving forward to the next JvF finals =) | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5617 Posts
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Yodo
Russian Federation327 Posts
Flash was in top form, just a bit cocky, which cost him a lot. | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
On May 10 2011 22:22 Yodo wrote: Regarding Bisu vs Flash, I think it is a good time to recall some PR from the past: Power Rank as of 01/01/2011 Something similar, yeah? You can check this PR thread and be surprised how SKT's fans logic has been changed =) But actually I don't care much about Bisu #2 place. Let Bisu's fans have some joy, while Flash moving forward to the next JvF finals =) Didn't like that power rank precisely because of that reasoning (and it was a pretty controversial PR as well). Upsets happen, true, but they shouldn't be enough to remove the aura of an 18-2 record. Still, that's why PR is more an opinion piece than a news article. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On May 10 2011 13:01 Navi wrote: To be fair though, as was mentioned somewhere in last month's PR discussion (probably in this one as well, although I haven't been able to look at all the pages yet) Bisu had the luxury of being able to prepare for Jaedong / Flash on certain maps whereas JD and Flash had to carry much more of their team and came into the ace probably somewhat tired, having played several games in a row. SLs are definetly a more even playing field for seeing which player has the edge over the other, unless the maps are really atrocious I was one of the ones who pointed out that Bisu had the luxury of choosing when to be sent out since he was playing in the role of the sniper, but realistically if he wants to prepare for all possibilities then he needs to train for at least 4 different maps (sets 4-7). If he and his coaches act smartly, he can narrow that down by analyzing most likely possibilities and choosing where he will face them based on the most likely results. And wtf is with Stork getting 2-0'd by Hyun last night? | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On May 10 2011 22:45 Yodo wrote: The main point was "only good in PL" which is quite applicable. And actually 18-2 is faaar better than Bisu's current performance. Any scrub has a gosu day, and as for Flash - scrubs are even more dangerous then good players. It is hard to predict how they will play + high possibility for cheese. Flash was in top form, just a bit cocky, which cost him a lot. 18-2 is awesome, but it was over 3 months that happened and many of those games were not against top players. The month in question, Flash went 7-5 dropping about 50 ELO points and the point is that not only did he drop out of BOTH leagues that month but he looked pretty bad in his games. I was actually a bit bothered that Flash was still ranked ahead of Calm that month since Calm advanced in BOTH leagues. And if Flash lost because he got cocky? How is that supposed to be better than losing because of lack of skill? If you lose because you lack professionalism then it's still your fault. (For the record, I don't buy that crap anyway. Because it's just crap. Flash had a bad month that cost him his KeSPA #1 rank and it's that simple.) Bisu just went 8-3 facing JD, Flash (x3), Sea, Free, and Zero. Yes he's out of MSL but against the hardest group in history with his worst possible opponent playing him twice, which is why his ELO increased over the course of the month despite dropping. I ask myself, had it been any other group -- or even any other permutation of the same group -- would Bisu have dropped out of MSL? And the answer I come back with is no. No, for the same reasons I advocated Bisu's #8 placement on the previous ranking, Bisu deserved the nod over Flash on this one. | ||
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chisuri
Vietnam789 Posts
On May 10 2011 22:22 Yodo wrote: Regarding Bisu vs Flash, I think it is a good time to recall some PR from the past: Power Rank as of 01/01/2011 Something similar, yeah? You can check this PR thread and be surprised how SKT's fans logic has been changed =) But actually I don't care much about Bisu #2 place. Let Bisu's fans have some joy, while Flash moving forward to the next JvF finals =) When Flash lost both OSL and MSL, BOTH, to some nonames, he didn't win WL final, beating 2 out of 3 best players at that time. And Flash can TRY to move forward to his next final, Bisu WON his already ). Good luck, Flash. You will need it. Try not to lose 0-3 to JD like you're doing for a while now. | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On May 11 2011 01:06 Mortality wrote: I ask myself, had it been any other group -- or even any other permutation of the same group -- would Bisu have dropped out of MSL? And the answer I come back with is no. Why? Failing out of individual leagues against opponents over whom he is the favorite has been Bisu's modus operandi for a while now. What's unusual about this season is that Bisu was knocked out by a good player. | ||
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
I like flash but I like them way more and bisu is the chocolate | ||
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