EPTWhat do you think of 1.3.3 PTR Patch Notes? - Page 5
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Kerwinius
United States58 Posts
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jazzbassmatt
United States566 Posts
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Craixs
Denmark170 Posts
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Roflhaxx
Korea (South)1244 Posts
On April 29 2011 16:51 Craixs wrote: disapointed, i want less hardcounters, nerf fungal and storm and no need to change ghost cost. I want tier 1 units to be usefull in the lategame like in bw, now getting 2 fungals and 30 marines dead. or 1 fungel and a baneling. -.- without even being able to move my men, the damage is insane, but the immobility is out of this world. Yeah and they should nerf blue flame hellions 1 shot and 30 lings dead!! On a serious note, I am curious to see how the new zealots timing will change zvp | ||
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Mirror0423
United States175 Posts
Protoss is WAYYYY more gas heavy. And it's not like "oh i think i wanna drop i'll make medivacs!" or "oh i think i'll play fortress style i'll make tanks!" but it's more of "I have to make sentries to be able to defend... i have to make obs to scout anything.... i already have a robo bay and the only way i can deal with MMM is colossi...." Being as forced to do things as we are all the units we're FORCED to make are gas heavy... it's not like "oh i think this game i wanna try a ghost timing push" or "oh this game I'm just gonna do standard MMM".... Wish with the HT nerf came a decrease in it's cost at least.... to make it worth taking the rist of getting it EMPed/sniped.... Apart from that, i don't mind most changes. Spore timing never mattered to me much, the pylon change... i guess will change 4 warpgate? i'm not good enough to comment on that i think. The warpgate timing will make almost no difference for a "safe" style player. But it will hurt a early aggressive or cheesy player. With the warpin time increase the unit time decrease was necessary. Change i wish they would make: Nerf colossi, but make HT more viable than they are now... Archon change does not coung -_-;; With the nerf of colossi they'll need to nerf roaches for PvZ, since storm barely tickles a roach... apparently roaches can survive a lightening as well as a nuclear winter. With the nerf of roaches buff hydras. Nerf marauders, since colossi and roaches are weaker marauders can be weaker to balance it out... But make mech more viable. Such as increase health for hellions (though their dmg against workers are a bit high) I guess i want the current "dominating" strategy to be nerfed a bit, and the "alternative" strategy to be buffed a bit, so there's a lot more variety. I can't speak as much for ZvT MU stuff, since i mainly play toss. Banelings seems a bit too... hit or miss. Sometimes reminds me of a reaver scarab. Except maybe a bit more controllable. And i guess thors sometimes makes me completely mis-judge who's going to come out ahead in a fight. o_o super range, super health, super dmg, super repair.. There needs to exist more than one way to effectively/at least even par counter a unit. Countering thors effectively is.... i almost feel impossible? But my opinions on thors and banes are from very very limited experience apart from just obsing/watching games. | ||
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TheTurk
United States732 Posts
They buff Protoss. With the new gateway timing protoss can fast expand and hold off a 2rax scv allin. Proxy gates were a problem before and now they'll just be ridiculous. 15 Nexus is disgustingly powerful and not at all risky. Delaying warp gate is NOT worth the gateway buff. I would much rather deal with a 4gate. Also, waiting for more than a spore crawler root time decrease. They need to buff Zerg so badly. Maybe Roach dps increase please? | ||
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
PvP now revolves less around 4gate vs 4gate, which is good as it got old really fast. As a Terran player, the Ghost change is nice, leaving me with more gas, making a Ghost/Mech play a possibility as well as Ghosts in earlier TvZ. Bunker change seems fair, although I think a better change would be to keep the 100%, but require an SCV to break it down, costing mining time and forcing an SCV to move somewhere more dangerous. Archon change seems fine, will affect Phoenix lift off, Void Ray damage and Forcefields in PvP and Concussive Shells in TvP. Pylon change seems a little random, it'll force the pylon to be close enough to get hit by range 6 units and it may not stretch over certain gaps/abyss anymore. Spore Crawler...I dunno really. Usually the problem with one is getting it built before it gets destroyed by cloaked units, the whole rooting thing doesn't seem to make much of a difference. If Zerg knows cloaked units are out in the field, Zerg will build Spore Crawlers where they are needed, not just build one and move it around. Mobile stealth detection for all races are higher up the tech tree. Still, less 4gating in PvP and Ghosts being changed, looks to be good changes, although I am worried about (proxy) 2 gates. | ||
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deanyo
United Kingdom206 Posts
On April 29 2011 19:32 TheTurk wrote: The world is crying "OP" for Protoss, so what do they do? They buff Protoss. With the new gateway timing protoss can fast expand and hold off a 2rax scv allin. Proxy gates were a problem before and now they'll just be ridiculous. 15 Nexus is disgustingly powerful and not at all risky. Delaying warp gate is NOT worth the gateway buff. I would much rather deal with a 4gate. Also, waiting for more than a spore crawler root time decrease. They need to buff Zerg so badly. Maybe Roach dps increase please? I cant handle this much stupid in one post. | ||
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Gracksaurusrex
United Kingdom171 Posts
it is now going to be proxy gateways all over the place. | ||
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pinkbunny20
Australia26 Posts
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Amnesia
United States3818 Posts
On April 28 2011 03:45 pred470r wrote: I don't play sc2 so I voted meh.... Really cause I voted it sucked! | ||
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Duskbane
United States178 Posts
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
On April 29 2011 19:32 TheTurk wrote: The world is crying "OP" for Protoss, so what do they do? They buff Protoss. With the new gateway timing protoss can fast expand and hold off a 2rax scv allin. Proxy gates were a problem before and now they'll just be ridiculous. 15 Nexus is disgustingly powerful and not at all risky. Delaying warp gate is NOT worth the gateway buff. I would much rather deal with a 4gate. What? seriously, do you even play the game? Terran was strong earlygame and Protoss was strong lategame. Now Protoss got a buff earlygame and Terran got a buff lategame... 33% gascost decrease for ghosts is a change that is in my oppinion very well thought out. Not only Mech against Protoss will be more viable (because you can afford some ghosts beside Mech) moreover, TvZ won't change at all. As for Proxygates, I am not worried at all. It's a cheesy strategy and if it's scouted it won't succeed, if nor then yes. It'll be more powerfull. But you were also dead before the patch if you didn't prepare... I can't judge the impact of the gateway changes on PvP or PvZ but for PvT I think the patch is good. | ||
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pallad
Poland1958 Posts
On April 28 2011 03:45 pred470r wrote: I don't play sc2 so I voted meh.... Then , why you take vote , if you dont play.. no sense I think patch is not bad , pylon change is very interesting and will hit game play hard imo , but we see | ||
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Gackt_
335 Posts
On April 29 2011 08:07 Geovu wrote: Queen rushes were fucking unstoppable lol. U herd of transfuse bro? Also the spore crawler burrow time was kind of ridiculous, the only reason the probably haven't changed it in the past would be because of the sore Zergs being reminded of the spine crawler burrow time and start QQing over that. I mean they had to couple it in with a 4 gate nerf just to take it somewhat off of Zergs' minds. wait a lil? U claim they were unstoppable cuz of the transfuse (that costs alot of energy)? thats like me claiming the bunkerrush is unstoppable cuz of the SCV reparing it? and the SCV can repair the bunker as much as he want since u got the minerals. The transfuse is limited til its energy. And it's not like you cant stop a spinecrawler rush the very first mintues when 1 queen doesnt have unlimited transfuse..thats just bs. | ||
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Trobot
United States125 Posts
Other than that...back to 2-gates being the bane of my existence. ^_^ | ||
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Leetley
1796 Posts
On April 30 2011 03:54 Trobot wrote: Kinda wish they'd shortened the root time for spine crawlers as well as spores. Not as drastically as 6 seconds, but still. :/ Other than that...back to 2-gates being the bane of my existence. ^_^ Yeah, these are pretty my thoughts too. | ||
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HEROwithNOlegacy
United States850 Posts
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The Final Boss
United States1839 Posts
On April 28 2011 04:23 Char711 wrote: Not bad but I'm irked by some stuff. Did pylon radius really have to be changed? It's not like anyone was saying, "Man, that power radius on pylons is hella imba!" It makes it harder to warp units up ledges and stuff, something that allows for very easy to execute and powerful cheeses. Personally I like that change a lot, as it doesn't really hurt a P who decides to go for a more macro oriented game plan but it stops them from winning with something stupid like Proxy Void+warp in elevated Zealots on maps like Backwater Gulch. | ||
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The Final Boss
United States1839 Posts
On April 29 2011 17:56 TossNub wrote: I'm sorta confused as to all the terrans saying "the ghost change is good since all my T2 units are so gas heavy, now i can get ALL of my tech choices at T2 off 2 base"... Protoss is WAYYYY more gas heavy. And it's not like "oh i think i wanna drop i'll make medivacs!" or "oh i think i'll play fortress style i'll make tanks!" but it's more of "I have to make sentries to be able to defend... i have to make obs to scout anything.... i already have a robo bay and the only way i can deal with MMM is colossi...." Being as forced to do things as we are all the units we're FORCED to make are gas heavy... it's not like "oh i think this game i wanna try a ghost timing push" or "oh this game I'm just gonna do standard MMM".... Wish with the HT nerf came a decrease in it's cost at least.... to make it worth taking the rist of getting it EMPed/sniped.... Apart from that, i don't mind most changes. Spore timing never mattered to me much, the pylon change... i guess will change 4 warpgate? i'm not good enough to comment on that i think. The warpgate timing will make almost no difference for a "safe" style player. But it will hurt a early aggressive or cheesy player. With the warpin time increase the unit time decrease was necessary. Change i wish they would make: Nerf colossi, but make HT more viable than they are now... Archon change does not coung -_-;; With the nerf of colossi they'll need to nerf roaches for PvZ, since storm barely tickles a roach... apparently roaches can survive a lightening as well as a nuclear winter. With the nerf of roaches buff hydras. Nerf marauders, since colossi and roaches are weaker marauders can be weaker to balance it out... But make mech more viable. Such as increase health for hellions (though their dmg against workers are a bit high) I guess i want the current "dominating" strategy to be nerfed a bit, and the "alternative" strategy to be buffed a bit, so there's a lot more variety. I can't speak as much for ZvT MU stuff, since i mainly play toss. Banelings seems a bit too... hit or miss. Sometimes reminds me of a reaver scarab. Except maybe a bit more controllable. And i guess thors sometimes makes me completely mis-judge who's going to come out ahead in a fight. o_o super range, super health, super dmg, super repair.. There needs to exist more than one way to effectively/at least even par counter a unit. Countering thors effectively is.... i almost feel impossible? But my opinions on thors and banes are from very very limited experience apart from just obsing/watching games. Are you being serious? I mean I guess I like the idea about HTs and Colossi, as one actually requires some micro or at least good storm placement where as the other involves just straight up A-moving (and any P player who says "Colossi require more micro, sometimes, when I macro awfully I have to move them back until i warp in more units" I would just like you to try microing like marines against banelings). I think that amulet was too powerful as being able to create a HT at 2 seconds notice that was ready to storm seems ridiculous; maybe increase the damage storms deal? Banelings don't need to be changed, you have to micro against them or have higher tech, and in all honesty they stop a T from doing straight up bio. Thors are a really powerful unit, but they don't need to be nerfed. They're slow, expensive, die fairly easily against the right composition without proper support, and have a lot of units that they fall exceedingly quickly to. Sure they can be powerful in large numbers, but so are Colossi, Carriers, Battle Cruisers, Broodlords, and Ultralisks; each unit just requires the correct support or else they can get countered by something that your opponent may make (for example: Colossi need Gateway units, Ultras need Infestors ect.). Mass Thors will lose to mass Roach or mass Marauder, but with other mech units they do much better. Similarly, mass Colossi (and I mean only colossi) loses to mass Marauder and mass Roach, but with gateway units it deals with those quite easily. And the Ghost nerf will bring a lot of diversity into the TvP match-up. Heavy, heavy mech (I mean like GoOdy style people) can be very effective, but also very hard to accomplish. EMP is pretty much necessary for it to work, and every bit of gas is vital. I don't know if you've ever tried playing that style, but it requires a ridiculous amount of gas. To say that P is more "gas heavy" is silly. Maybe the way you play is, but I mean AdelScott's mass gateway style doesn't require nearly as much gas as GoOdy's mech style. The nerf to Ghosts will make them easier to afford in a more gas intensive army (meaning higher tech) and less easy to fit into a lower tech army (meaning MMM). P's should be happy if MMM becomes less popular as I have seen numerous people claim that "T is OP because all you do is build Tier 1" (which is stupid because MMM+Viking+Ghost is hardly all tier 1, no more so than gateway+Colossi ball is all tier 1, plus tanks are getting more and more common in the match-up because they're a great unit). Blizzard made a change that may make your dreams come true, more T's will start doing builds that aren't straight MMM+some tech units. Most of your suggestions about "Nerf Marauders, nerf Roaches" all are ridiculous. I literally started playing P for 3 days and by the end of that I was able to play Diamond level ladder matches and the only MU I had trouble with was PvP because it takes time to get used to (I'm a Diamond level T). And Hellions are a very powerful unit vs workers, but so are storm drops or sneaking a Zealot into a T expansion during a fight. P isn't UP, P players just got to higher places in the ladder then they should have gotten by just 4 Gating or DT rushing. Then when they start losing to players with better mechanics, game sense, macro, and overall better understanding and skill at StarCraft they claim that other races are OP. I mean, my problem with TvP is that it's hard to safely get to mech compositions due to P's versatile early game cheeses, but late game bio builds crumble to colossi builds that almost all P's do. I mean look at CrunCher in the TSL3. He played horribly in those two games on Shakuras (vs Idra and vs Mondragon) or at least he didn't play as well as his opponent. Looking at the Mondragon match, he made far more mistakes than Mondi, Mondi harassed, he had more bases, he managed to shut down CrunCher's economy, then CrunCher a-moved across the map with an unstoppable death ball. Your suggestions for nerfs are literally awful ideas that should never be implemented. | ||
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