• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:20
CEST 22:20
KST 05:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway13
Community News
SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia7Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?39Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon What happened to Singapore/Brazil servers?
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
Pros React To: SoulKey's 5-Peat Challenge BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 General Discussion BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams
Tourneys
[IPSL] ISPL Season 1 Winter Qualis and Info! Is there English video for group selection for ASL [ASL20] Ro16 Group B [ASL20] Ro16 Group A
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Borderlands 3 Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1541 users

Power Rank 09/14/2010 - Page 12

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 30 Next All
pronesc
Profile Joined July 2010
United States31 Posts
September 18 2010 13:51 GMT
#221
Nice write-up, given the fact that there were relatively few games in PL and all.
Crisium
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1618 Posts
September 18 2010 14:42 GMT
#222
On September 18 2010 22:07 SubtleArt wrote:
It's a new writer with a more neutral tone. Rather than heap praise in decorated language he says it factually and with little emotion....it's just his style.


Right. But many people here are saying they prefer a more excited and hyped style that the PR has had in the past. There are plenty of complaints here. But there's also constructive criticism. That post comparing when Jaedong won the Golden Mouse to Flash this month is called constructive criticism. Waxangle doesn't have to reinvent himself, but he would be wise to listen and consider new ideas for the next PR.
Broodwar and Stork forever! List of BW players with most Ro16, Ro8: http://tinyurl.com/BWRo16-Ro8
aupstar
Profile Joined June 2007
Australia912 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-18 15:18:27
September 18 2010 15:12 GMT
#223
On September 14 2010 15:04 Waxangel wrote:
For the first 23 minutes of Leta and Flash’s first OSL game, we were in some bizarre alternate reality where Leta was abusing Flash like Flash abuses Hiya. For 23 minutes, Leta constantly attacked Flash at a frenetic pace, with his attacks suffering no dullness despite their incredible speed. Even the turtle-king was bewildered, and soon gave up at a 6 to 3 base advantage.
.

However, Leta then made a possibly career defining error, one so costly that it defeated his spirit and allowed Flash to slowly but surely grind out a win.


Waxangle writes a great unbiased article with no hype..=_=''

Turtle king grinding a win + another reference to how flash beat hiya in the proleague finals and in doing so made a "small" contribution to KT's victory. Ofc, KT would be where they are now without Flash because they're just so damn good without him.

Gosh I'm not looking forward to future PR.
Firebats, the natural enemy of octozerg
SubtleArt
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
2710 Posts
September 18 2010 16:16 GMT
#224
On September 18 2010 23:42 Crisium wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2010 22:07 SubtleArt wrote:
It's a new writer with a more neutral tone. Rather than heap praise in decorated language he says it factually and with little emotion....it's just his style.


Right. But many people here are saying they prefer a more excited and hyped style that the PR has had in the past. There are plenty of complaints here. But there's also constructive criticism. That post comparing when Jaedong won the Golden Mouse to Flash this month is called constructive criticism. Waxangle doesn't have to reinvent himself, but he would be wise to listen and consider new ideas for the next PR.


Then "please write with more enthusiasm" is a much more valid complaint than "Waxangel stop trying to belittle Flash's accomplishments"
Morrow on ZvP: "I'm not very confident in general vs Protoss because of the imbalance (Yes its imbalanced, get over it)."
Tempest[OEC]
Profile Joined February 2010
United States417 Posts
September 18 2010 16:26 GMT
#225
Are you really going to complain about how your favorite player isnt getting enough praise? Hes being called a "god" and a bonjwa and one of the best players ever. What more do you need? A single PR article isnt going to change all that. Stop insulting the new PR writer. No one can ever satisfy everyone.

Good write-up Waxangel. It was a good read.
InRaged
Profile Joined February 2007
1047 Posts
September 18 2010 17:51 GMT
#226
On September 19 2010 01:16 SubtleArt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 18 2010 23:42 Crisium wrote:
On September 18 2010 22:07 SubtleArt wrote:
It's a new writer with a more neutral tone. Rather than heap praise in decorated language he says it factually and with little emotion....it's just his style.


Right. But many people here are saying they prefer a more excited and hyped style that the PR has had in the past. There are plenty of complaints here. But there's also constructive criticism. That post comparing when Jaedong won the Golden Mouse to Flash this month is called constructive criticism. Waxangle doesn't have to reinvent himself, but he would be wise to listen and consider new ideas for the next PR.


Then "please write with more enthusiasm" is a much more valid complaint than "Waxangel stop trying to belittle Flash's accomplishments"

No it's not more valid, cause it's only Flash's write-up that lacks a good deal of enthusiasm. Others get so much more enthusiastic writing style in comparison to their accomplishment last months (none). Leta's write-up quoted above is a good example.
SubtleArt
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
2710 Posts
September 18 2010 19:03 GMT
#227
On September 19 2010 02:51 InRaged wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2010 01:16 SubtleArt wrote:
On September 18 2010 23:42 Crisium wrote:
On September 18 2010 22:07 SubtleArt wrote:
It's a new writer with a more neutral tone. Rather than heap praise in decorated language he says it factually and with little emotion....it's just his style.


Right. But many people here are saying they prefer a more excited and hyped style that the PR has had in the past. There are plenty of complaints here. But there's also constructive criticism. That post comparing when Jaedong won the Golden Mouse to Flash this month is called constructive criticism. Waxangle doesn't have to reinvent himself, but he would be wise to listen and consider new ideas for the next PR.


Then "please write with more enthusiasm" is a much more valid complaint than "Waxangel stop trying to belittle Flash's accomplishments"

No it's not more valid, cause it's only Flash's write-up that lacks a good deal of enthusiasm. Others get so much more enthusiastic writing style in comparison to their accomplishment last months (none). Leta's write-up quoted above is a good example.


It was another solid month for Jaedong, where his play was consistently in the great to awesome range. It was marked with a variety of tough TvZ tests, where Jaedong faced capable opponents in Light and Flash. Jaedong played well in all of these series, with some spectacular play in drawn out games against Light and Flash. Unfortunately, he was unable to keep Flash out of his head and complicated mind-games caused him to lose some one-sided but intriguing matches.


In addition, Fantasy had the boost of playing well in the Proleague post-season. He won his match at Kwang-an-ri for the second year running, although this time it could not help his team win a championship. Even so, winning at such an important event counts for a lot.

Combined with some solid wins over a variety of decent players such Calm, Shuttle, and Kal, Fantasy showed that he’s the best of the rest.


Free was on a OSL joyride, going undefeated on his royal road tour before Flash gave him a heavy dose of reality.

Besides his win with a slightly lucky (but still well executed) proxy gate rush, Free suffered a terrible thrashing at Flash’s hands. There was a clear gulf in class on display, as Free failed to put up any meaningful resistance. Even besides the 1-3 score, his skill level never suggested the threat of an upset like the above three players.

With solid statistical production but no realistic capacity to challenge for a championship, Free provides a solid buffer between the real contenders above him and the murky depths of inconsistency below.


Sea’s two surprise wins against Jaedong and dual top eight finish secures him a respectable #7.


Just teeming with emotion
Morrow on ZvP: "I'm not very confident in general vs Protoss because of the imbalance (Yes its imbalanced, get over it)."
kamizushi
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada52 Posts
September 19 2010 01:02 GMT
#228
On September 17 2010 08:13 Crisium wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2010 05:17 Malinor wrote:
A 3 / 5 / 5 composition over the cause of 6 events is not statistically significant, not even close. I don't want to be an ass, but you can basically not draw any conclusion about terrans relative strength from these numbers, absolutely none.


Actually I can. And you want an even more shocking number?

Distinct player winner's per race, last 6 seasons (2 years)

1 Terran:
Flash

2 Protoss:
Stork
Bisu

4 Zerg:
Jaedong
EffOrt
Calm
Luxury

You seem to forgot that success is measured by winning. No Terran has been capable of winning for YEARS besides Flash. If you push it back to 11 seasons, or 3.67 years, only 3 unique Terran have won compared to 7 unique Zerg. The highest stage is what matters. Only, and I mean only, if you use this most recent season can you claim Terran have dominated at the highest stage. You have to go back to when Oov and NaDa were winning to see non-Flash Terran winning the majority of tournaments. You remember why he is called the Ultimate Weapon? He transformed himself into the winning method; not his race.


You know I have to agree with you. I remember on the Round of 8 of the Ever OSL reading someone's comment. It was saying Terran are dominating. For those of you with sort memory, out of 8 players there was 4 zergs, 3 Protoss and Flash. If it wasn't for Flash's success Terran would do pretty bad. Beside Flash and Fantasy is there any Terran worth mentioning in the past 2 years?
Hey
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-19 03:48:32
September 19 2010 03:34 GMT
#229
On September 19 2010 10:02 kamizushi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2010 08:13 Crisium wrote:
On September 17 2010 05:17 Malinor wrote:
A 3 / 5 / 5 composition over the cause of 6 events is not statistically significant, not even close. I don't want to be an ass, but you can basically not draw any conclusion about terrans relative strength from these numbers, absolutely none.


Actually I can. And you want an even more shocking number?

Distinct player winner's per race, last 6 seasons (2 years)

1 Terran:
Flash

2 Protoss:
Stork
Bisu

4 Zerg:
Jaedong
EffOrt
Calm
Luxury

You seem to forgot that success is measured by winning. No Terran has been capable of winning for YEARS besides Flash. If you push it back to 11 seasons, or 3.67 years, only 3 unique Terran have won compared to 7 unique Zerg. The highest stage is what matters. Only, and I mean only, if you use this most recent season can you claim Terran have dominated at the highest stage. You have to go back to when Oov and NaDa were winning to see non-Flash Terran winning the majority of tournaments. You remember why he is called the Ultimate Weapon? He transformed himself into the winning method; not his race.


You know I have to agree with you. I remember on the Round of 8 of the Ever OSL reading someone's comment. It was saying Terran are dominating. For those of you with sort memory, out of 8 players there was 4 zergs, 3 Protoss and Flash. If it wasn't for Flash's success Terran would do pretty bad. Beside Flash and Fantasy is there any Terran worth mentioning in the past 2 years?


Certainly Terran hasn't been as strong as in the past. After Savior's 5-0 over Oov in Cyon(?) MSL, Terran dominance hasn't been the same. Late 2008/early 2009 was probably the all time low point.

Probably because it was the all time high point for Protoss and historically the game balance has been P > T > Z > P.

But so what? Terran has traditionally been the strong race in Starcraft history. If we go all the way back to the EVER 2005 season, only 6 distinct Terrans have won a finals. By the above argument, Terran was weak back then too. But at this time, even though Terran did not win either final in the EVER 05/Uzoo MSL season, Terran was pretty much unanimously considered the strongest race by everyone paying attention to progaming even though both OSL and MSL were won by Zerg (July and Savior).

In fact, looking at distinct SL winners:
Terran (9): Boxer, NaDa, Oov, Mind, ForGG, Flash, Sync, Xellos, Casy
Zerg (10): Gorush, Savior, Chojja, Jaedong, Luxury, Calm, Freemura, July, GGplay, Effort
Protoss (8): Nal_ra, Bisu, Giyom, Garimto, Reach, Kingdom, Anytime, Stork

So by your argument... in the long run, all races have been equal?

Gold Count:
Terran: 22
Zerg: 19
Protoss: 12

Paints a different picture?

[Edit: I may have forgot to count this season, which would make it 24 gold for Terran. Too tired to bother checking my numbers.]



What made Terran dominance special was really just the presence of the bonjwas and nothing more than that. Sure there were other very strong S-class Terrans over the years, but other races have also had their lists of S-class players. Protoss is probably unique in this in that the lists of S-class gamers tended to be smaller. Pre-LYH/LYH era, it was sometimes said that if you weren't Giyom, Garimto or IntoTheRain, you didn't have a chance. And then post LYH it was Ra, Reach, Kingdom for a long time. Then Anytime, Pusan and Stork arose, although Pusan never went all the way and Stork had terribad PvZ back then (adequate vs schmucks, painful to watch vs toss killers like Chojja and Savior), but it wasn't until the Six Dragons that we ever had such a strong line-up for Protoss.

This naturally changed everything. Many strong Protoss. No Terran bonjwa. So things were bad.

2010? Even without Flash, I'd say Terran is doing better than Protoss, although I cannot say the same for Zerg if you remove Jaedong from the picture.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
September 19 2010 05:59 GMT
#230
On September 19 2010 12:34 Mortality wrote:Protoss is probably unique in this in that the lists of S-class gamers tended to be smaller. Pre-LYH/LYH era, it was sometimes said that if you weren't Giyom, Garimto or IntoTheRain, you didn't have a chance. And then post LYH it was Ra, Reach, Kingdom for a long time. Then Anytime, Pusan and Stork arose, although Pusan never went all the way and Stork had terribad PvZ back then (adequate vs schmucks, painful to watch vs toss killers like Chojja and Savior), but it wasn't until the Six Dragons that we ever had such a strong line-up for Protoss.


Whoa I just realized that Lim Yo Hwan and Lee Young Ho have the same initials T_____T

Writer
kamizushi
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada52 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-19 22:34:37
September 19 2010 22:20 GMT
#231
Number of progammers registered in TL : 294T, 362Z and 277P.

Don't ask me what it means, if it means anything.
Hey
aupstar
Profile Joined June 2007
Australia912 Posts
September 19 2010 23:50 GMT
#232
On September 14 2010 15:04 Waxangel wrote:
In addition, Fantasy had the boost of playing well in the Proleague post-season. He won his match at Kwang-an-ri for the second year running, although this time it could not help his team win a championship. Even so, winning at such an important event counts for a lot.
.


He beat HOEJJA!

Yes, regardless winning at such an important event counts for a lot...That is unless you are Flash in which case it is a "small" contribution.
Firebats, the natural enemy of octozerg
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
September 20 2010 02:02 GMT
#233
Haha I do like that bit of dichotomy.
Remember Violet.
moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
September 20 2010 02:56 GMT
#234
On September 16 2010 06:02 Grobyc wrote:
Glad to see some protoss moving up and effort finally move down. i like effort personally, but he doesn't deserve the rank he had before.

Don't worry, next month he won't be ranked at all :/
I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
Lebesgue
Profile Joined October 2008
4542 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 03:59:44
September 20 2010 03:04 GMT
#235
I actually wonder what will happen with this PR in October. I mean there are literally no games played so I guess this PR will stay as it is for the next month as well...

Edit: Damn, I just saw Effort announced that he retires
bluetrolls
Profile Joined October 2009
United States139 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 03:52:52
September 20 2010 03:46 GMT
#236
nothing to see here.
bluetrolls
Profile Joined October 2009
United States139 Posts
September 20 2010 03:52 GMT
#237
Deleted. Just saw Effort retiring post and I'm in no mood for silly jokes.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33429 Posts
September 20 2010 07:39 GMT
#238
On September 20 2010 08:50 aupstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2010 15:04 Waxangel wrote:
In addition, Fantasy had the boost of playing well in the Proleague post-season. He won his match at Kwang-an-ri for the second year running, although this time it could not help his team win a championship. Even so, winning at such an important event counts for a lot.
.


He beat HOEJJA!

Yes, regardless winning at such an important event counts for a lot...That is unless you are Flash in which case it is a "small" contribution.


Bad wording on my part, I did consider them almost equally (slight edge for Flash for having been on the winning side). But Flash didn't even need the PL win to take #1 by a mile.
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Navi
Profile Joined November 2009
5286 Posts
September 20 2010 08:28 GMT
#239
Good bye, effort.... I will miss your squinty eyes on the PR forever

I think that the PR is fine, waxangel's writing style is much more matter-of-fact than previous writers', which lets me compare my personal PR to his, step by step. Not saying that previous PR's didn't have this quality, but it is, in my opinion, a great RANKING.
Hey! Listen!
Reggiegigas
Profile Joined August 2010
234 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 11:00:45
September 20 2010 09:01 GMT
#240
It's a sad state for SC when the top two never get beaten by the rest of the pro gamer community.

Either way, I think y'all should stop complaining just cause a new writer has a different style than the old one. It's still the same type of power ranking as before, is it not? Don't nitpick so much and be grateful someone put so much effort (ack, that word hurts to type now) into making this.

Thanks!
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 30 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL Team Wars
19:00
Playoff - 3rd vs 2nd
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
JuggernautJason165
SpeCial 70
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 14314
sas.Sziky 49
sSak 31
ZZZero.O 3
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm105
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m1413
Stewie2K109
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu499
Other Games
Grubby3090
FrodaN1952
B2W.Neo787
ToD305
KnowMe272
ArmadaUGS127
Hui .119
SortOf64
Sick43
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV1058
BasetradeTV34
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta24
• StrangeGG 14
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Airneanach41
• HerbMon 10
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22219
League of Legends
• Doublelift3321
Other Games
• imaqtpie1249
• Shiphtur248
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
13h 40m
Snow vs Sharp
Jaedong vs Mini
Wardi Open
14h 40m
OSC
1d 3h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 13h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 13h
Light vs Speed
Larva vs Soma
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
LiuLi Cup
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
The PondCast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Zoun vs Classic
[ Show More ]
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
5 days
BSL Team Wars
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.