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On September 17 2010 10:20 bluetrolls wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2010 10:09 SubtleArt wrote:
It's a new writer with a different tone and writing style. Deal with it.
In case you haven't noticed, L0thar was answering in a polite and descriptive way to Manifesto7's explicit question. If you don't want to hear the answer, please ask Manifesto7 to not ask the question. Going back to Manifesto7's question, the things that feel strange in this Power Rank are the incomplete acknowledgment of the records and accomplishments that Flash set this month, specifically lacking 3 back to back dual finals, Golden Mouse and defeating 2-0 in Bo5 his greatest rival. It's feels as if Waxangel needs to sharpen his writing skills, with emphasis on raw fact stating. Then moving to the rest of the Power Rank, we learn that Jaedong is certainly capable of defeating Flash in a series (which, WCG?!), that Jaedong is the greatest #2 ever (while Flash doesn't qualify for greatest #1) and, reading all the way down, that Flash is the "turtle-king" (WTF?).
Yes, he was saying that there's less flair, emotion, and highly descriptive words of praise for Flash than there were for JAedong. Again, it's a new writer. Some writers are way more neutral that others is what I was saying. Anyway I'm gonna stop posting because I can't even express how pathetically trivial these complaints are. Have a nice life.
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On September 17 2010 10:09 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2010 09:35 L0thar wrote:On September 17 2010 09:06 Manifesto7 wrote:
Can I ask what part of:
"Overall, Flash is the obvious pick for best player in the world."
is not enough praise? You people who are complaining are beyond understanding. Sorry but stating the obvious (in an unenthusiastic way to boot) is not praising in my book. But I understand different people have different criteria. I actually don't have big problems with things written in the PR, more with things which are missing. Just for comparison - what was written about JD winning OSL (only OSL!) and getting golden mouse Why then is Lee Jaedong at PR #1 today? Because, sports fans, the kid came back the very next day, yes that's right, he came back just 24 hours later to completely obliterate the same Terran who had schooled him so thoroughly less than a week before. From a humbling 3 -1 against Calm, the OZ Zerg recovered well to reverse the scores and go 3 - 1 against Fantasy in the OSL Semi Final, thereby securing a back to back OSL Finals spot, an opportunity he would turn into a back to back OSL win, the first since Lim Yo Hwan himself, and as we all know thanks to the gushing of a million fanboys, the third Golden Mouse in Starcraft history. Indeed, his OSL feats quickly outshine everything else this month, and it must be said, far outweigh his disappointing WCG loss to Stork. As billions of babbling fans bicker and beg for the B word to be used, I'm just here to tactfully avoid that discussion but say that JD, having borne the brunt of many beatings, is now by and large back and ready to bashfully agree that the baton is still very much in his possession. Quite cool, right? Now for Flash winnig BOTH Flash became the first player to win the OSL and MSL in the same season, and tied Jaedong at five 1st place finishes, just behind Nada who has six. If the B-word hadn’t gone out of fashion a few months ago, people would certainly be clamoring to award Flash the title. Instead, the most recent Korean community trend is to give Flash a more appropriate surname and call him “God Young-ho”. Let's focus especially on what was written about the extraordinary feat which acquiring the golden mouse certainly is: Yeah, that much. It's a new writer with a different tone and writing style. Deal with it.
If you are continuing the work of someone else, you are bound to be compared to your predecessor. Especially when some people are dissatisfied and then asked why. Deal with it.
Let's continue with your deconstruction (I apologize answering to Manifesto before you, but you know how it goes).
As for how the terrans are doing, I'm going to quote Crisium, who posted some simple yet wonderfull thing - pure data.
On September 17 2010 08:13 Crisium wrote:
Distinct player winner's per race, last 6 seasons (2 years)
1 Terran:
Flash
2 Protoss:
Stork
Bisu
4 Zerg:
Jaedong
EffOrt
Calm
Luxury
You seem to forgot that success is measured by winning. No Terran has been capable of winning for YEARS besides Flash. If you push it back to 11 seasons, or 3.67 years, only 3 unique Terran have won compared to 7 unique Zerg. The highest stage is what matters. Only, and I mean only, if you use this most recent season can you claim Terran have dominated at the highest stage. You have to go back to when Oov and NaDa were winning to see non-Flash Terran winning the majority of tournaments. You remember why he is called the Ultimate Weapon? He transformed himself into the winning method; not his race.
Not much else to say.
The only proleague game Flash played in August was vs Hyuk. No, I don't care about his winrate this year in proleague, or about how being #1 thanks to him gave Kt time to analyze SKT, or the aura he gives his team, or how he forced SKT to alter their plans just to prepare for him, etc. This is a monthly (seriously, can people understand this?) power rank that assesses how strong a person is playing. The only game he played was vs Hyuk, so for the criteria of this power rank he really didn't do anything significant in the finals.
As I said, we have to agree to disagree and this only supports it. We have completely different view on the impact Flash had on the finals. Or on the impact the finals had on Flash (lot of practice hours which for example JD could use to prepare for individual leagues).
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On September 17 2010 11:14 L0thar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2010 10:09 SubtleArt wrote:On September 17 2010 09:35 L0thar wrote:On September 17 2010 09:06 Manifesto7 wrote:
Can I ask what part of:
"Overall, Flash is the obvious pick for best player in the world."
is not enough praise? You people who are complaining are beyond understanding. Sorry but stating the obvious (in an unenthusiastic way to boot) is not praising in my book. But I understand different people have different criteria. I actually don't have big problems with things written in the PR, more with things which are missing. Just for comparison - what was written about JD winning OSL (only OSL!) and getting golden mouse Why then is Lee Jaedong at PR #1 today? Because, sports fans, the kid came back the very next day, yes that's right, he came back just 24 hours later to completely obliterate the same Terran who had schooled him so thoroughly less than a week before. From a humbling 3 -1 against Calm, the OZ Zerg recovered well to reverse the scores and go 3 - 1 against Fantasy in the OSL Semi Final, thereby securing a back to back OSL Finals spot, an opportunity he would turn into a back to back OSL win, the first since Lim Yo Hwan himself, and as we all know thanks to the gushing of a million fanboys, the third Golden Mouse in Starcraft history. Indeed, his OSL feats quickly outshine everything else this month, and it must be said, far outweigh his disappointing WCG loss to Stork. As billions of babbling fans bicker and beg for the B word to be used, I'm just here to tactfully avoid that discussion but say that JD, having borne the brunt of many beatings, is now by and large back and ready to bashfully agree that the baton is still very much in his possession. Quite cool, right? Now for Flash winnig BOTH Flash became the first player to win the OSL and MSL in the same season, and tied Jaedong at five 1st place finishes, just behind Nada who has six. If the B-word hadn’t gone out of fashion a few months ago, people would certainly be clamoring to award Flash the title. Instead, the most recent Korean community trend is to give Flash a more appropriate surname and call him “God Young-ho”. Let's focus especially on what was written about the extraordinary feat which acquiring the golden mouse certainly is: Yeah, that much. It's a new writer with a different tone and writing style. Deal with it. If you are continuing the work of someone else, you are bound to be compared to your predecessor. Especially when some people are dissatisfied and then asked why. Deal with it. Let's continue with your deconstruction (I apologize answering to Manifesto before you, but you know how it goes). As for how the terrans are doing, I'm going to quote Crisium, who posted some simple yet wonderfull thing - pure data. Show nested quote +On September 17 2010 08:13 Crisium wrote:
Distinct player winner's per race, last 6 seasons (2 years)
1 Terran:
Flash
2 Protoss:
Stork
Bisu
4 Zerg:
Jaedong
EffOrt
Calm
Luxury
You seem to forgot that success is measured by winning. No Terran has been capable of winning for YEARS besides Flash. If you push it back to 11 seasons, or 3.67 years, only 3 unique Terran have won compared to 7 unique Zerg. The highest stage is what matters. Only, and I mean only, if you use this most recent season can you claim Terran have dominated at the highest stage. You have to go back to when Oov and NaDa were winning to see non-Flash Terran winning the majority of tournaments. You remember why he is called the Ultimate Weapon? He transformed himself into the winning method; not his race. Not much else to say. Show nested quote +The only proleague game Flash played in August was vs Hyuk. No, I don't care about his winrate this year in proleague, or about how being #1 thanks to him gave Kt time to analyze SKT, or the aura he gives his team, or how he forced SKT to alter their plans just to prepare for him, etc. This is a monthly (seriously, can people understand this?) power rank that assesses how strong a person is playing. The only game he played was vs Hyuk, so for the criteria of this power rank he really didn't do anything significant in the finals. As I said, we have to agree to disagree and this only supports it. We have completely different view on the impact Flash had on the finals. Or on the impact the finals had on Flash (lot of practice hours which for example JD could use to prepare for individual leagues).
Sorry, can't help but ask: what impact did he have to u?
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I wonder, when are we gonna see an sc2 power rank?
Anyways, welcome wax, did a great job
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@ L0thar
But somebody's wrong on the internet!
As a fellow  Flash fan... what can we say? Flash's domination in a time where fellow Terrans are doing their best  YellOw imitation just makes it all even more incredible.
Though to be fair, Jaedong probably would not have 4pooled twice in a row had he not had to play on two severely T favored maps. Nor would he have played in such a risky and exploitable manner in Set 1,2,5 in MSL Grand Finals. Even with such a broken ZvT map in OSL finals for Jaedong, this does not right that wrong.
But we can play the what if game all day. In a more balanced map pool Flash still may have predicted Jaedong's probably strategies using his one-of-a-kind clairvoyance. And no other Terran has had sustained BoX success against Jaedong with the same map pool. And with so few TvZs, Jaedong had very little to study up on preFinals while the opposite was true for Flash. And Terrans might be better represented if Flash didn't keep razing them to the ground. Same with Zs for Jaedong. And this is getting way too long. 
@SubtleArt
We definitely agree with you that we should manage our expectations based on the people in question.
E.g. We would expect to win a helluva lot more basketball games if we had Kobe on our team. In fact, we would also be very angry and disappointed if this weren't the case. (Luckily, I am a Lakers fan.)
That being said, since we, the users are what make this site meaningful, users are more than within their rights to make their wishes known. (Could you imagine how worthless TL.net would be without visitors?) For the most part, this site's population are human beings. Many of us people enjoy reading passionate articles, even if they don't exactly save lives or pay the bills.
Finally, this debate clearly means something to you given the number of times you responded. But let's be honest here. How few of us don't F5F5F5 to see if anyone agrees with us? I know we do
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On September 15 2010 23:47 L0thar wrote:This PR really feels like Waxangel is trying to belittle most of what Flash has done. Sorry Wax, but instead of writing how Flash won the most titles in one season ever, you wrote that he just did something JD already did long time ago ("tied Jaedong at five 1st place finishes"). Instead of focusing on how Flash strategicaly read JD in both finals and destroyed his greatest rival on two biggest stages, you just wrote that they played on similar level and Flash happened to get all the trophies. Instead of mentioning how Flash lead his team to PL gold (which he did), you wrote how his contribution was relatively small. This may seem like pointless fanboy nitpicking, but this PR isn't about who's first, that was obvious even to hardest Flash hater. It was about the write up, about the words used. And while what you wrote about Flash is completely true, it's written in a very unenthusiastic way. Normaly I would address this fealings to my own pro-Flash bias and shut up, but this comment Show nested quote +On June 05 2010 04:10 Waxangel wrote:Hey guess how I know Flash Bonjwa Theory is dead. Korean fans stopped talking about it entirely after he lost to effort. No doubt people will try to frankenstein it back together if Flash makes dual league finals again tho makes me wonder if I'm the only one biased here. You seemed quite enthusiastic back then, more than in the whole Flash section in this PR. I know that people who don't particulary like Flash aren't having the best times, with all the praising in other threads, but I don't think PR should try to lower the enthusiasm. If I may ask one question Wax, what is your opinion on Flash as a player? I know you considered him dull in long past, but whan now? I'm a huge Jaedong fan and I don't care for Flash at all, but I have to say, L0thar makes a pretty strong case. Flash's paragraph makes it sound like the difference between him and Jaedong is the slimmest of margins, when in fact, Flash not only beat but crushed Jaedong in the last three best-of-fives they played in (only three other people in the world have beaten Jaedong in a bo5 even once).
I hope that Jaedong comes back to wrench the crown away from Flash, and because it's Jaedong, and we've seen the way that after every setback he comes back even stronger than before (he should have called himself Hydra) I think that that happening is just in the realm of possibility, but for the moment there's no denying it: Flash is just as far ahead of Jaedong as Jaedong is ahead of everyone else.
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On September 17 2010 04:27 darkmetal505 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2010 23:49 nimoraca wrote:On September 16 2010 23:32 darkmetal505 wrote:On September 16 2010 21:06 nimoraca wrote:
Its nice to have a place, your own imaginary little world, where Jaedong did not get destroyed and crashed by Flash, where he played on the same level and just couldn't take the titles (three times in a row), where a losing score of 3vs9 in important finals means nothing, where Flash didn't made it to a six consecutive finals, where he didn't break both the elo and kespa point record, where...
That world exists, its called the PR. I didn't see Jaedong get crushed by Flash. He didn't play on the same level, but he definitely isn't as far behind as people are suggesting. 3-9 doesn't mean all that much either. The closest Jaedong could've gotten and Flash still winning all the finals would've ben 6-9, a 3 game difference. You're claiming a 3 game difference is the key to showing that Jaedong got "destroyed and crashed"? A good number of the games, Jaedong didn't get the opportunity to show his highest level play and neither did Flash. Advancing to 6 consecutive finals is indeed an awesome feat, I'll admit. Who says Jeadong couldn't win any of those finals. I don't. The "closest" he could have gotten would be Jaedong 9, Flash 0 . Instead he went Jaedong 3, Flash 9. There is a big difference. You aren't understanding what I'm saying. People are using the 9-3 as a statistic to show how dominant Flash is over Jaedong, disregarding the quality of the games. Assuming the overall outcome is the same (Flash wins all 3 of the finals), the closest Jaedong could've gotten is 9-6, a 3 game differential from 9-3. Say that this did happen, that each final went 3-2,3-2,3-2. That's only a jump from 25% to 40% win rate for Jaedong. Would you still claim Flash dominant over Jaedong? . If you don't, then you're saying somewhere in this 15% determines whether Flash "destroys" Jaedong or not. Since games are measured in discrete amounts, somewhere in between (9-4, 9-5) determines threshold for dominance. What is the highest Jaedong could've gone for you to say Flash did not dominate Jaedong? On the other hand, if you claim that 9-6 still does show dominance, then you are either extremely biased towards Flash in the first place OR its not the win/loss ratio of individual games you care about but rather that Flash beat Jaedong in 3 seperate Bo5s. You would be implying that winning in 3 Bo5s over the same opponent is indicative of dominance regardless of how close the game differential is. If I beat you 9-6, would you be able to accept me being supremely dominant over you? AND this is all setting aside the content of the matches, which in my opinion, is the biggest factor. The number of games in which I truly saw Flash outclass Jaedong is very small. For me to say that Flash is really a distinct level above Jaedong, I need to see more evidence of this. In addition, for this to happen, I need to see Flash beating Jaedong when they are both at their absolute best. How else can you claim Flash so much better than Jaedong? This is the reason I don't call Flash bonjwa, because I haven't felt this distinction between him and others. I want to assure you that this is not because I am more of a Jaedong fan. Even the MSL semis between Flash and Fantasy was extremely close; I could see Flash had the edge. Not enough of an edge though for me to call Flash so much better, and I fucking hate Fantasy, I mean I will not miss a chance to bash him if I get one. For the previous bonjwas, I saw people trying their extreme hardest but still fail. I mean, every Terran KNEW Savior would go 3 hatch muta into defiler, but they couldn't do a single thing. This sort of stuff just doesn't happen anymore. The second you become predictable, you get beat. Effort beating Flash by aggressive play is a prime example. No doubt Flash is a better player, but Broodwar has evolved to a level where even though you maybe better, your opponents are snapping at your heels. The second Flash let his guard down, Effort lept on the chance and beat him. It wasn't a fluke, Effort was just a better player that evening, no matter what strategies he used. Flash's record, although astonishing, doesn't tell me anything about how close he is to his opponents. Because of this I can honestly say, I don't think there can be a bonjwa anymore. There will never be that much of a dichotomy between players. If you do claim Flash bonjwa, it has to be based on his record (which I find meaningless in the discussion anyway), and thus Jaedong has the right to be also. The way I see it is that a bonjwa will many titles because he is that much better than everyone, but winning lots of titles doesn't qualify one as a bonjwa, although it is often indicative. It's the causation vs association argument. Thus, give Flash a awesome new nickname. I'm fine with "God" Young-Ho, but not a name that has another connotation which is outdated. This is exactly what the PR does and which is why I don't see the unrest about it. Something about Flash's achievements belongs in a well written article, not here. tl:dr 9-3 doesn't tell me jack shit about difference in skill. I still don't see Flash is that far a level above JD.
The problem is in the sentence "The closest Jaedong could've gotten and Flash still winning all the finals...". Jeadong could have won all the finals. He could have won 9vs0. He didn't. He lost all three of them, in total 3vs9. That in my book means he got crushed and destroyed. If it was 9:6, it would still be pretty bad, but not as bad. Had he won one of those finals, than it wouldn't be crushing.
You are also asking to see Flash beat Jaedong when they are both at their absolute best. Well who are you to say they are not. If Flash was sucking (like he did in second half of 2007 and 2008) Jaedong would probably be winning all the titles and crushing everyone else. Just because he is losing to Flash doesn't mean he is not at his best. And don't tell me that he didn't play as good as he is capable of. Your play is as good as your opponent lets you.
Finally, your understanding of the word bonjwa is wrong. There is no point in discussing whether Flash is actually bonjwa or not. It a Korean thing, not TLs. As someone allready posted a winners interview from the OSL:
"With this victory, you’ve risen to Bonjwa status:
A Receiving a title like that is quite an honor but compared to the players who rose to that level before, I think I’m still lacking. Though it’s nice if fans call me that, I still think “Ultimate Weapon” is better and more appropriate for me right now."
Flash is considered bonjwa in Korea. No point discussing it further.
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I have to agree with lothar.. This PR for flash really sounds like he did nothing much, He accomplished almost everything there can be acomplished, again, dual finals, DUAL GOLD, he is finnaly the fifth bonjwa, and also proclaimed GOD.. He also won the proleague finals gold, and you make it sound like "eh, easy..".
Comeon..
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On September 17 2010 11:34 SubtleArt wrote:
Sorry, can't help but ask: what impact did he have to u?
The only proleague game Flash played in August was vs Hyuk. No, I don't care about his winrate this year in proleague, or about how being #1 thanks to him gave Kt time to analyze SKT, or the aura he gives his team, or how he forced SKT to alter their plans just to prepare for him, etc. This is a monthly (seriously, can people understand this?) power rank that assesses how strong a person is playing. The only game he played was vs Hyuk, so for the criteria of this power rank he really didn't do anything significant in the finals.
Well, basically this. Especially the part about how much time SKT certainly spent trying to prepare for Flash (in normal and ace match)...or do you think SKT coach just said "lol Flash? Just sacrifice Hyuk and we are golden! Now moving to more important things...". I would like to compare it to the impact star hockey/fotball/any team sport player can have on a game. He is often neutralized, but at the cost of 2-3 opponents players. Then he may not do anything spectacular, but the free room he gave his teammates allowed them to shine, score goals etc.
Now I'm not saying these things should be consider in the ranking itself. They are highly speculated and hardly measured (and we seem to agree on that). However I believe good and objective PR writer shouldn't sumarize them as "Flash also won the deciding game for KT at the Proleague finals, but his contribution was surprisingly small...".
I really don't have any objections to the ranking itself (how could I lol), but the writeup about Flash. Especially considering Waxangel's past comments about him. There are just to many things which seems iffy to me.
You are right that different writers have different style. But if your style is ignoring that the person in question just won the golden mouse, then you are probably doing something wrong. How can you explain that? It's very significant achievement and the PR was delayed specificaly because of OSL finals. Yet, not even a single note about that.
On September 17 2010 12:04 Emperor_Earth wrote:@ L0thar But somebody's wrong on the internet! As a fellow Flash fan... what can we say? Flash's domination in a time where fellow Terrans are doing their best YellOw imitation just makes it all even more incredible. Though to be fair, Jaedong probably would not have 4pooled twice in a row had he not had to play on two severely T favored maps. Nor would he have played in such a risky and exploitable manner in Set 1,2,5 in MSL Grand Finals. Even with such a broken ZvT map in OSL finals for Jaedong, this does not right that wrong.
What can I say, sometimes it's just neccessary to say what you have on mind .
And btw. I loved the 4-pools. If something they showed that JD is still ruthless as he should be and silenced the numerous people who though that early pools are universal counter to Flash play.
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well, plexa would write this monthly power rank much, much better..
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On September 17 2010 23:13 L0thar wrote:
And btw. I loved the 4-pools. If something they showed that JD is still ruthless as he should be and silenced the numerous people who though that early pools are universal counter to Flash play.
4pool is a complete counter to what Flash did against Jaedong in the previous two Bo5 matches on 2P maps, which is why everyone said Jaedong should have 4pooled on Polaris/Odd Eye 3/Polaris in the recent MSL Finals. We were right; we accurately predicted that Flash would open with a build that loses to 4pool (scout --> 14 CC), and that Jaedong was unlikely to win on those maps against that build with an economic opening.
Jaedong waited until OSL Finals to bust out the 4pool, and on better ZvT maps than in the MSL finals. That was a bad call that lost him an MSL title, and didn't work that great in the OSL (1W, 1L) because after two Bo5's of Scout-->14CC, Flash (predictably) switched to an opening more stable against cheese.
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People who can't see how ridiculously close Flash and Jaedong are skillwise are people who have not understood/seen the games. Games have come down to seconds, single units deciding the outcomes etc.
Flash is ahead of JD especially in the mindgame department, but claiming Flash is as much ahead of Jaedong as JD is ahead of the rest is just plain ignorant. Flash is stronger but it's still a battle of gods.
Personally I like the hyped up writing style more too, but to each his own, and complaining like 5 year olds is just embarassing? Does little Billy need more attention from TL-Mommy?
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On September 18 2010 06:47 Monsen wrote:
People who can't see how ridiculously close Flash and Jaedong are skillwise are people who have not understood/seen the games. Games have come down to seconds, single units deciding the outcomes etc.
Flash is ahead of JD especially in the mindgame department, but claiming Flash is as much ahead of Jaedong as JD is ahead of the rest is just plain ignorant. Flash is stronger but it's still a battle of gods.
Personally I like the hyped up writing style more too, but to each his own, and complaining like 5 year olds is just embarassing? Does little Billy need more attention from TL-Mommy?
like 4pooling twice, yes? And Flash and jaedong aren't 'ridiculously close' the dong went 3-9, i wouldnt call that ridiculously close... and ofcourse you like hyped up previews little billy, ofcourse you do! Now be a good buy and brush your teeth
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I'm not even angry, more like sad. Everyone who follows BW for a longer period sees that this time period is golden age of competitive SC and simultaneously also end of BW pro scene. Flash is symbol to all this, the last bonjwa observing slow death of his realm. The hints for end of BW scene as we have known it for years are obvious - the more we should appreciate that we could be there, when all the records and achievements of the best player ever happened.
I believe the time left for BW is much shorter than expected few months ago. We should use these last rare moments to their fullest potential. Sure, its OK to write usual PR as we are used to. But wouldn't it be more appropriate (considering the circumstances) to have really epic writeup about best player in the world, so the community and his loyal fans could dwell in the warmth produced by his starshine for a little while?
I don't think this PR is bad, the places are correct and writing decent. But it could have been so much more. The description that fits this PR best is missed opportunity. We might not have much more of them, so please, don't waste them.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Great PR Waxangel.
You didn't have much to work with this month, and won't next month either, but such is the life of broodwar. I look forward to great things in October.
Keep up the good work.
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Osaka27158 Posts
I'm sorry, but I cannot comprehend your complaints. To say that he is belittling Flash when he says Flash is not called a bonjwa but a god, and then says he is the best player in the world...
I am at a total loss.
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On September 18 2010 18:47 Manifesto7 wrote:
I'm sorry, but I cannot comprehend your complaints. To say that he is belittling Flash when he says Flash is not called a bonjwa but a god, and then says he is the best player in the world...
I am at a total loss.
He says it so casually, as if it was nothing special. L0thar's comparison is spot on imho. Don't tell me you can't see the difference.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 17 2010 09:35 L0thar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2010 09:06 Manifesto7 wrote:
Can I ask what part of:
"Overall, Flash is the obvious pick for best player in the world."
is not enough praise? You people who are complaining are beyond understanding. Sorry but stating the obvious (in an unenthusiastic way to boot) is not praising in my book. But I understand different people have different criteria. I actually don't have big problems with things written in the PR, more with things which are missing. Just for comparison - what was written about JD winning OSL (only OSL!) and getting golden mouse Show nested quote +Why then is Lee Jaedong at PR #1 today? Because, sports fans, the kid came back the very next day, yes that's right, he came back just 24 hours later to completely obliterate the same Terran who had schooled him so thoroughly less than a week before. From a humbling 3 -1 against Calm, the OZ Zerg recovered well to reverse the scores and go 3 - 1 against Fantasy in the OSL Semi Final, thereby securing a back to back OSL Finals spot, an opportunity he would turn into a back to back OSL win, the first since Lim Yo Hwan himself, and as we all know thanks to the gushing of a million fanboys, the third Golden Mouse in Starcraft history. Indeed, his OSL feats quickly outshine everything else this month, and it must be said, far outweigh his disappointing WCG loss to Stork. As billions of babbling fans bicker and beg for the B word to be used, I'm just here to tactfully avoid that discussion but say that JD, having borne the brunt of many beatings, is now by and large back and ready to bashfully agree that the baton is still very much in his possession. Quite cool, right? Now for Flash winnig BOTH Show nested quote +Flash became the first player to win the OSL and MSL in the same season, and tied Jaedong at five 1st place finishes, just behind Nada who has six. If the B-word hadn’t gone out of fashion a few months ago, people would certainly be clamoring to award Flash the title. Instead, the most recent Korean community trend is to give Flash a more appropriate surname and call him “God Young-ho”. Let's focus especially on what was written about the extraordinary feat which acquiring the golden mouse certainly is: Yeah, that much.
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On September 18 2010 18:47 Manifesto7 wrote:
I'm sorry, but I cannot comprehend your complaints. To say that he is belittling Flash when he says Flash is not called a bonjwa but a god, and then says he is the best player in the world...
I am at a total loss.
Nothing is wrong with what waxangel said, he is just much more reserved about his enthusiasm in his writeup than past rankers.
Nothing wrong with it but TL has a taste for the grandiose and this rank was pretty non-chalant when it came to Flash's month.
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On September 18 2010 07:13 KTF_CloaK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2010 06:47 Monsen wrote:
People who can't see how ridiculously close Flash and Jaedong are skillwise are people who have not understood/seen the games. Games have come down to seconds, single units deciding the outcomes etc.
Flash is ahead of JD especially in the mindgame department, but claiming Flash is as much ahead of Jaedong as JD is ahead of the rest is just plain ignorant. Flash is stronger but it's still a battle of gods.
Personally I like the hyped up writing style more too, but to each his own, and complaining like 5 year olds is just embarassing? Does little Billy need more attention from TL-Mommy? like 4pooling twice, yes? And Flash and jaedong aren't 'ridiculously close' the dong went 3-9, i wouldnt call that ridiculously close... and ofcourse you like hyped up previews little billy, ofcourse you do! Now be a good buy and brush your teeth
~8 proxy Rax + 5 Rax by Flash. Try harder or rather watch the actual games before you comment.
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On September 18 2010 18:57 Mooncat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2010 18:47 Manifesto7 wrote:
I'm sorry, but I cannot comprehend your complaints. To say that he is belittling Flash when he says Flash is not called a bonjwa but a god, and then says he is the best player in the world...
I am at a total loss. He says it so casually, as if it was nothing special. L0thar's comparison is spot on imho. Don't tell me you can't see the difference. + Show Spoiler +On September 17 2010 09:35 L0thar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2010 09:06 Manifesto7 wrote:
Can I ask what part of:
"Overall, Flash is the obvious pick for best player in the world."
is not enough praise? You people who are complaining are beyond understanding. Sorry but stating the obvious (in an unenthusiastic way to boot) is not praising in my book. But I understand different people have different criteria. I actually don't have big problems with things written in the PR, more with things which are missing. Just for comparison - what was written about JD winning OSL (only OSL!) and getting golden mouse Show nested quote +Why then is Lee Jaedong at PR #1 today? Because, sports fans, the kid came back the very next day, yes that's right, he came back just 24 hours later to completely obliterate the same Terran who had schooled him so thoroughly less than a week before. From a humbling 3 -1 against Calm, the OZ Zerg recovered well to reverse the scores and go 3 - 1 against Fantasy in the OSL Semi Final, thereby securing a back to back OSL Finals spot, an opportunity he would turn into a back to back OSL win, the first since Lim Yo Hwan himself, and as we all know thanks to the gushing of a million fanboys, the third Golden Mouse in Starcraft history. Indeed, his OSL feats quickly outshine everything else this month, and it must be said, far outweigh his disappointing WCG loss to Stork. As billions of babbling fans bicker and beg for the B word to be used, I'm just here to tactfully avoid that discussion but say that JD, having borne the brunt of many beatings, is now by and large back and ready to bashfully agree that the baton is still very much in his possession. Quite cool, right? Now for Flash winnig BOTH Show nested quote +Flash became the first player to win the OSL and MSL in the same season, and tied Jaedong at five 1st place finishes, just behind Nada who has six. If the B-word hadn’t gone out of fashion a few months ago, people would certainly be clamoring to award Flash the title. Instead, the most recent Korean community trend is to give Flash a more appropriate surname and call him “God Young-ho”. Let's focus especially on what was written about the extraordinary feat which acquiring the golden mouse certainly is: Yeah, that much.
It's a new writer with a more neutral tone. Rather than heap praise in decorated language he says it factually and with little emotion....it's just his style. Saying that Flash is above bonjwa and overall the best player seems like good enough praise to me.
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EPT
