EPTBut like I said, doing this isnt easy, if I did I'm sure there'd be some players that I would overlook
Power Rank 05/31/2010 - Page 10
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
But like I said, doing this isnt easy, if I did I'm sure there'd be some players that I would overlook | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On June 05 2010 03:03 SuperArc wrote: Roro>Shine in ZvT Roro=Shine in ZvZ Roro<Shine in ZvP He definitely is not just a ZvZ sniper. He's getting results, but each time I think of Roro I think of "mediocre zerg" -_- In ZvT, both have had only mediocre results. Roro's win percentage is a bit higher, but either way it means little. We're essentially comparing someone with ELO peak 2063 vT with ELO peak 2045 vT. Neither player has done anything to show that's going to change any time soon. Shine can snipe in two match-ups and is on the whole more proven; Roro is a ZvZ sniper (look at his 2010 results for confirmation: ZvZ is his only standout match-up) whose deepest individual league run is getting 2-0'd in the Ro36 of OSL. | ||
Waxangel
United States33706 Posts
Korean fans stopped talking about it entirely after he lost to effort. No doubt people will try to frankenstein it back together if Flash makes dual league finals again tho  | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On June 05 2010 04:10 Waxangel wrote: Hey guess how I know Flash Bonjwa Theory is dead. Korean fans stopped talking about it entirely after he lost to effort. No doubt people will try to frankenstein it back together if Flash makes dual league finals again tho people people people. People are stupid  He makes both finals again and lose one 2-3 and the talk is over. Not that I care since there is no logic whatsoever in the discussion. It seems bonjwa is more a nostalgia for those who watched in the old days. I watched then too and there was no one more dominating than flash. They made finals consistantly but almost never dual finals and specially never dual finals in a row. Flash has been in all finals for 4 starleagues in a row now, I guess thats not enough... oh well. If they had those standards consistantly there wouldn't be any bonjwa in the first place. | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On June 05 2010 04:06 Mortality wrote: In ZvT, both have had only mediocre results. Roro's win percentage is a bit higher, but either way it means little. We're essentially comparing someone with ELO peak 2063 vT with ELO peak 2045 vT. Neither player has done anything to show that's going to change any time soon. Shine can snipe in two match-ups and is on the whole more proven; Roro is a ZvZ sniper (look at his 2010 results for confirmation: ZvZ is his only standout match-up) whose deepest individual league run is getting 2-0'd in the Ro36 of OSL. you rate with stats, I do with performance, roro is a good ZvTer especially with zergs losing to terrans left and right hes doing decently, Shine just sucks in ZvT | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On June 05 2010 04:39 SuperArc wrote: you rate with stats, I do with performance, roro is a good ZvTer especially with zergs losing to terrans left and right hes doing decently, Shine just sucks in ZvT I haven't seen all Roro's games ZvT but I haven't really been impressed by what I have seen. Either way, it's not very relative. Whether or not he's as good as or better than Shine, he has to prove it and the only way to do so is with results. | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On June 05 2010 04:10 Waxangel wrote: Hey guess how I know Flash Bonjwa Theory is dead. Korean fans stopped talking about it entirely after he lost to effort. No doubt people will try to frankenstein it back together if Flash makes dual league finals again tho Hot_Bid said it the other day. If there's doubt and discussion, ____'s not a bonjwa. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 05 2010 01:42 7mk wrote: I never overlook players. Effort didn't get PRd last month because his tie-breaker games were terrible. Snow didn't get ranked last month because he had only won like 3 games before the PR was published. Sure he looked promising but it was way to early to put him on the PR (he could have easily turned out like flying did). Roro didn't get featured this month because he's not winning against top line competitors. I mean, he's losing to jangbi and frozen which speaks some volumes about his skill. sometimes plexa just completely overlooks certain players, like he did with effort and snow right up until this month and quite a few players in the past but oh well doing the PR must be hard, so many games played.. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On June 05 2010 04:10 Waxangel wrote: Hey guess how I know Flash Bonjwa Theory is dead. Korean fans stopped talking about it entirely after he lost to effort. No doubt people will try to frankenstein it back together if Flash makes dual league finals again tho Man you must've had a field day when Savior lost to Chojja and Oov lost to July. | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On June 05 2010 13:18 TwoToneTerran wrote: Man you must've had a field day when Savior lost to Chojja and Oov lost to July. Neither were called bonjwa at that time. You Flash fans are way too premature. | ||
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yes9111
United States420 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TlsTd.gif) | ||
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J1.au
Australia3596 Posts
On June 05 2010 13:56 yes9111 wrote: lolol sorry to be off topic but anyone know where this hilarious oov gif is from? + Show Spoiler + Fantasy versus Action, where Fantasy almost loses to a 4pool he had defended. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On June 05 2010 13:20 SuperArc wrote: Neither were called bonjwa at that time. You Flash fans are way too premature. Rofl yes they were. Well oov wasn't because it was retroactive, but there wasn't a doubt with either of them, even after they lost. People around here just like to bend over and take it for nostalgia's sake. And you know what, even if it is premature, my point stands. Oov and savior are still remembered as bonjwas despite multiple out of character losses. How is Flash's losses particularly different? | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On June 05 2010 15:13 TwoToneTerran wrote: Rofl yes they were. Well oov wasn't because it was retroactive, but there wasn't a doubt with either of them, even after they lost. People around here just like to bend over and take it for nostalgia's sake. And you know what, even if it is premature, my point stands. Oov and savior are still remembered as bonjwas despite multiple out of character losses. How is Flash's losses particularly different? Yeah, you know oov and savior won titles after their losses. Flash most likely will too, but he didnt yet because it didnt happen. So its premature. Had oov/savior done nothing special after those losses they would have never been called bonjwa. Be patient man EDIT: I am speaking in terms of seasons. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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darktreb
United States3019 Posts
Perhaps we'll see something similar with Flash and the OSL loss, though the shift here will not be within the same league. Now that he's 3-0'd Jaedong, it completely and permanently murdered the "Flash can't beat JD in a bo5" thoughts. The next time he goes on a mega hot streak (which will be soon as he literally starts one right after the previous one stopped and right now he's just playing PL for the next month+) there won't be the "JD bo5" retorts that have always come up while he was going 88% in PL over 8 months and making all 4 finals. There's still the Effort loss, and admittedly a "true bonjwa" simply doesn't lose a series when up 2-0 no matter what, but I don't think anyone's thinking "man Flash isn't the favorite against Effort". Really it has been Jaedong and Jaedong alone that's been blocking Flash from the perception of being bonjwa. Lost in the OSL aftermath was the significance of the 3-0. And it wasn't a close 3-0 either (actually it was close with each game coming down to exactly one moment that could have gone either way if Jaedong had just done one thing better, but it won't be remembered that way). I'm not saying Jaedong can't beat Flash (obviously Jaedong is and always will be capable of beating a player). But the entire dynamic of the argument has potentially changed, and it's just too early to tell. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
Flash is the most dominating progamer ever during this last year. You can easily compare resluts and find out for yourself. 2 consecutive finals both leagues. But seriously, floating above 2400 ELO for months and months is crazy. While he's been on avarage 80% total during this year, the old bonjwas never came close except maybe oov with far less games played. Doesn't really need to be discussed.. | ||
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Goragoth
New Zealand1065 Posts
Anyway, I'm hoping that KeSPA introduces some heavily protoss favoured maps soon and restores a tiny bit of balance to the game. I mean, historically terrans have won 22 golds, zerg 18, and protoss only 12. Time for a new protoss golden age already (and that coming from someone who roots for zerg players 90% of the time). | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5617 Posts
On June 05 2010 18:01 Goragoth wrote: I thought that a commonly agreed criterion for being bonjwa is having 4 golds (traditionally 3 MSLs and 1 OSL, but really they are pretty interchangeable). So until Flash gets that 4th gold shouldn't that discussion be tabled anyway? If he does (likely) then this period would certainly be considered as part of his "reign" but that still wouldn't make him bonjwa right now. Anyway, I'm hoping that KeSPA introduces some heavily protoss favoured maps soon and restores a tiny bit of balance to the game. I mean, historically terrans have won 22 golds, zerg 18, and protoss only 12. Time for a new protoss golden age already (and that coming from someone who roots for zerg players 90% of the time). Yeah seriously Protoss maps are needed. And from a Zerg perspective its great, I think, because terran beats zerg and protoss normally beat terran. So if protoss takes out the terrans, it would be good for the zerg players.  | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
It's from Fantasy vs Action on judgement day from PL. oh got beaten to it :/ | ||
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