• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:20
CEST 23:20
KST 06:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202519Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder2EWC 2025 - Replay Pack2Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced31BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0
StarCraft 2
General
Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update Serral wins EWC 2025 #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 EWC 2025 - Replay Pack
Tourneys
TaeJa vs Creator Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
[G] Progamer Settings Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Shield Battery Server New Patch BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 659 users

[MSL] Mirror, Mirror...

Forum Index > News
70 CommentsPost a Reply
Normal

[MSL] Mirror, Mirror...

Text byJWD
March 19th, 2009 21:16 GMT
[image loading]

This is an exciting time to be a StarCraft fan: both the OSL and MSL are in their final matches, WL playoffs have just begun, and, as if all that wasn't enough, OGN is hosting the first-ever All-Star Race Battle.

If you're having a tough time keeping up with all of this action, you're in the right place. This article runs through the Lost Saga MSL semifinals (Zero vs. Luxury and JangBi vs. Stork) and previews its final match, which is coming up at 17:00 KST on March 21.

In this MSL update, Zerg cerebrate Chill and Protoss Inquisitor Kwark are on hand to provide strategy insights from both semifinal series - thanks, guys. Also: more highlight videos for your viewing enjoyment! (Music trivia time - can you name the songs that kick off each video?)





Semifinal A Report

(Z)ZerO vs. (Z)Luxury


A word from the match preview:

On March 12 2009 12:29 JWD wrote:
Having already taken out Lux's twin in the Ro16 and MJY in the Ro8, Zero is just one match away from running a brutal ZvZ gauntlet all the way to the MSL finals - and, given that he's come this far, I think he'll bring his A-game to this semifinal match. Unfortunately, I don't think even Zero's best showing will be enough to put him past Chance Park. I pick Luxury's tried-and-true ZvZ, in five nailbiting sets.

When Luxury took the stage for this match, he was fresh off of a quite embarrassing WL loss to CJ Protoss Nbs, who was making his first 1v1 Proleague appearance since October 2008. Zero hadn't been faring much better: he'd lost his last three WL appearances to Calm, hyvaa, and Nal_ "dirty stache" keke.

Fun fact! Prior to this match, Zero's last 11 televised games were all against other Zergs. Just thinking about how many instances of muta-vs.scourge micro this kid must have encountered in his last few weeks of practice boggles my mind...but would Zero's vs.-Z streak be enough to help him past Luxury and into the Lost Saga MSL finals?


+ Show Spoiler [Match Results] +
(Z)ZerO < Byzantium 2 > (Z)Luxury
(Z)ZerO < Destination > (Z)Luxury
(Z)ZerO < Carthage > (Z)Luxury

(Z)ZerO 0 < 3 (Z)Luxury
(Z)Luxury advances to the Lost Saga MSL Finals.


                                        + Show Spoiler [Recommended Game] +
2set: ZerO vs. Luxury on Destination



Painfully one-sided games can be fun to watch if the winner creates his advantage with an ingenious play, and this game is an example. Though certainly not spectacular, it's the most entertaining set in this short series.


Semifinal A Highlights



                               + Show Spoiler [Match Analysis from Chill] +
1set on Byzantium 2

The power of the rock, paper, scissors opening of ZvZ shows itself quite clearly here. Although the advantages have been dwindling due to improved strategy and tactics, they still exist. Zero's 9 Pool gas opening is significantly more aggressive than an OverPool gas build. Unfortunately, this build is a clean win against 12 Hatch, and suffers many problems against a 12 Pool. Had Luxury done a traditional 12 Pool with his second Hatchery in main, he would have gone into the midgame with a comfortable lead. As is, his simultaneous 11 Pool and gas looked to establish a reasonably safe expansion, which played right into Zero's hands. A very nice maneuver to notice is that Zero begins to send five Zerglings across the map, while a single Zergling checks the last unscouted base. Zero reacts quickly to the scouting Overlord and presses his advantage, eventually forcing Luxury to resign himself to cancelling his Hatchery and defending his ramp.

At this point Zero had a small lead, with a faster Spire and an expansion morphing at his natural going into Muta play; however, good Mutalisk control is always the ZvZ equalizer. Because Luxury had a second Hatchery completed, he was able to put more of his gas immediately into Mutalisks, whereas Zero would have a few Larvae of lag before he used all his stockpiled gas. This meant Luxury had a small window to attack before the natural geyser of Zero sealed Luxury's fate. Some cute Zerglings distracted the first Mutalisks of Zero, saving both Luxury's Drones and Overlords.

When the camera panned to eight eggs sitting by Luxury's Hatcheries, I knew he had lost the game if he couldn't finish it within in the next minute. The immediate movement of the Mutalisks to Zero's natural confirmed that Luxury was well aware of this too.

The first battle in ZvZ is so telling. Zero's control looked reasonably good, but was evidently not good enough. You can see that although Zero doesn't take much damage from Scourge, he is taking fire from Luxury's Mutalisk group for far longer than he should. To add to this, there are four units of Zero's near the battle that he never uses. I actually rewound the VOD several times to rewatch this battle. Zero was down an Overlord, but up in position - he had the defender's advantage. I'm still unsure of why he commited to attacking Luxury's Mutalisk group. It's possible that he was fearful of being down Mutalisks due to the supply cap after losing his Overlord. Regardless, his control against Luxury's Scourge, combined with forgetting to add Mutalisks to his control group, led to a swift loss.



2set on Destination

Destination. Two-player maps are about as close as you can get to removing the guessing game from ZvZ, so game 2 should have been a look directly into each player's skill in the matchup (or as close as we can reasonably see from just one game).

Zero opened with a fairly modern ZvZ build of what appeared to be 9 Overlord 9 Extractor 12 Pool. This is a modified 12 Pool that looks to stockpile gas to get out an extra Mutalisk or two through the midgame. Luxury played a much more traditional Overpool gas - a very good "catch all" build. The two builds match up against each other a bit strangely. Because of the known location of your opponent and scouting Overlords, neither player needs to waste Larvae on Zerglings after the intial 6-8 are out. This means traditionally Zero will feel comfortable getting his Spire up with minimal defense to utilize his gas, while Luxury should feel confident in placing a second Hatchery earlier than usual.

And then we see how quickly ZvZ can fall apart when you start to make assumptions. Every Zergling that isn't necessary feels like it's lost you the game, but every Drone that should have been a Zergling will also lose you the game. So you do your best and pray. Zero cut defenses to get his second Hatchery much quicker than I expected with this build once he assumed he was safe from the initial threat of a Pool-first build. Unfortuantely, clever Luxury had hidden his first 6 Zerglings in his main while waiting for Zergling speed to finish. Zero actually had a fair shot to live this attack - Luxury had 10 Zerglings moving at separate times across the map, while Zero had 4 Zerglings, Drones, and 2 Larvae.

I'm really not sure what Zero was thinking using his four Zerglings on the ramp. Perhaps he missed the six Zerglings Luxury tried to sneak out of his main? Regardless, with his Spire placed sealing his mineral line he would have lost it to the Zerglings if he allowed them free passage to his main. By the time Zero realized what was about to happen, his Creep Colony was far too late and he had already spent some Larvae on Drones. Game two quickly went up in smoke the second that Spire died - there is essentially no way to come back from losing a Spire in modern, professional ZvZ. You can actually pinpoint the moment Zero seemingly stops caring. It's when he's losing Zerglings amongst a dozen Drones and not using them to defend. This game screams sloppy strategy and worse tactics from Zero. To his credit, Luxury showed some nice Drone defense against Zerglings at the end of the game.



3set on Carthage

In game 3 the map, Carthage, came much more into play. The long rush distance tends to mean expansion first builds are safe on this map. Both of Zero's previous games on this map have been 12 Hatchery (expansion) 11 Pool 10 Extractor builds. On a smaller map with less a less convoluted rush distance, Luxury's 9 Pool gas would run right over Zero's 12 Hatchery build; however, the natural of the map certainly gave Zero the best chance to survive the rush opening. This is especially true because Luxury spent his first 100 gas on Lair instead of Zergling speed! This decision could have possibly let Zero stall long enough with the few slow Zerglings of his own to survive the rush with minimal losses. Zero decided that is not something he wants to risk and reverted to 1 Hatch Sunken play. So we find ourselves in a situation very similar to game one with the roles reversed...

...and with Zero down four Drones from where he should have been. When the third Drone died, his fate was sealed. The fourth was another 6 inches of concrete in front of an already sealed door.

I can understand cancelling the Hatchery if you aren't confident in the timing to live against a 9 Pool (especially if you haven't yet confirmed if reinforcements are coming or if speed is coming), but Zero's Drone vs Zergling control should have been much better than what he displayed. Running to Luxury's natural or pulling the targeted Drone away were both available options. Instead he did neither and this is the result. To his credit, Zero did defend nicely against Luxury's second attack, but as former progamer Alan Feng will tell you, damage to the economy is exponential. There was no way Zero was coming back from being 4 Drones down. Just no way.


Player Marks from [image loading] Chill

ZerO's grade: D+

Terrible. After claiming the strategic advantage in game 1, his tactics let him down time and time again through this series. Good strategy is his only redeeming feature from this match, and tactics are about five times more important than strategy in ZvZ.

Luxury's grade: B+ to A-

Who knows? How can you grade someone when his opponent rolled over and raised the white flag at every opportunity? To his credit, Luxury did a lot of things right. He cancelled his Hatchery in game 1 and negated Zero's earlier spire. He hid his intial six Zerglings very intelligently in game 2. He targeted Drones well in game 3. However this match seems like WWE wrestling where one player is meant to look like the hero. Zero threw away the advantage in two of the three games and gift wrapped the final game in a nice little box complete with a white-flag ribbon.




Semifinal B Report

(P)JangBi vs. (P)Stork


A word from the match preview:

On March 12 2009 12:29 JWD wrote:
Stork's bumbling play in his third set against fOrGG is merely more evidence that this quarterfinal will turn out exactly like the finals of KHAN's average in-house tournament: with a JangBi victory. JangBi has the talent, momentum, and, given his history against Stork, confidence to take this series and a berth in the finals. I predict JangBi over Stork, in four.

Here's something: despite the massive hype surrounding JangBi in this MSL, the Liquibetting population was not ready to accept him as the clear favorite in this series with Stork.

[image loading]

The comments on this Liquibet, however, make me question the predictive capabilities of its participants - particularly myself (for some reason I voted Stork, after writing about how JangBi would win easily last week) and this guy:

On March 14 2009 16:04 QuickSandSlowly wrote:
While Storks been busy making starcraft with his gf, Jangbi's been practicing nonstop...

I'm not sure what that means, but if you try to generate a mental image I guarantee it won't be pretty.


+ Show Spoiler [Match Results] +
(P)JangBi < Byzantium 2 > (P)Stork
(P)JangBi < Destination > (P)Stork
(P)JangBi < Carthage > (P)Stork

(P)JangBi 3 > 0 (P)Stork
(P)JangBi advances to the Lost Saga MSL Finals.


                                        + Show Spoiler [Recommended Game] +
2set: JangBi vs. Stork on Destination



Considering the unit that is pictured in the YouTube preview above, how can you not watch this game? It's an excellent display of late-game army control to boot. This is PvP at its finest.


Semifinal B Highlights



                               + Show Spoiler [Match Analysis from Kwark] +
1set on Byzantium 2

Byzantium II is cheeseable, we've seen some nice proxy 99s here as well as proxy gate goonbreaks. Once the game gets to the goonreaver stage though I can only see it going one way. To be honest it's tricky to really discuss these games beforehand because my expectations are simply too low. I guess maybe if Stork somehow gets an early ramp contain and holds it he might win maybe. But that's an unlikely scenario.

JangBi spawns at 11 and Stork at 1 with both scouting on 10. Both scout clockwise and therefore JangBi gets first scout whereas Stork gets second. Both get the gas on 11 but when JangBi's scout probe arrives on 13 the builds diverge.

For those of you who don't play Protoss I'll briefly explain. The early game is all about goonwars, whoever gets range first can outmicro their opponent to take free shots and force them back down the ramp. Once the ramp is camped the aggressor has a huge advantage. So logically you would like to do to the 1 gate goon PvT opening. However the possibility of 2 gate openings, as well as proxy 99s, forces a blind player to open 8p, 10g, 11a, 13p, 14z, 18c which has significantly slower range than the 8p, 10g, 11a, 13c, 14z, 16p version. Both builds get the same amount of gas and after both have completed range they are even, the safe build is not at a disadvantage long term. What it does mean though is that there will be a 25 second window in which JangBi's rangegoons will absolutely destroy Stork's if he micros them.

JangBi scouts Stork's one gate in main and promptly goes for the optimal goon build whereas Stork, still playing blind, must go for the safe build. Stork is not at a long term disadvantage here but the timing window makes it very possible that he could get contained early and that will weigh him down even after he has range. A further disadvantage of the early core is that the goon arrives to finish off Stork's scout probe earlier, leaving him blind before JangBi has committed to any tech route. Stork is forced to play safe, holding his own ramp to maximise travel time between them and getting a fast robotics off 1 gate to deal with the lack of information. Meanwhile JangBi is anxious to press his timing window, not because he is aiming for the fast win but rather as a threat defence for his fast expansion build. If Stork was going for some kind of crazy proxy tech hide cheese he would not be able to hold his natural area and therefore his base against JangBi's goons. A counter fast expansion would be equally vulnerable, only a 2 gate goonrobo build is really safe against JangBi at this point so by pressing his advantage in the timing window he can confirm exactly what his opponent is doing. The goon harassment begins and JangBi can see that Stork is playing safe against him whereas Stork is still entirely blind against JangBi. All he knows is that he's under attack by some goons which isn't all that helpful

The goon micro wars starts and JangBi micros perfectly. It was truly incredible, taking freeshot after freeshot as Stork desperate retreated then surged forwards trying to buy time for his range and avoid losing his nat area. The fact that he was outnumbered didn't seem to matter as JangBi claimed 2 goon kills for his 1 loss. As range was about to complete JangBi backed off, leaving Stork still unsure what he was up against and JangBi already on 2 bases. At this point Stork should have been able to rule out any 2 gate massgoon builds from JangBi because with micro like that he should have already lost to them. However the die was cast, Stork's build was fixed and he couldn't do anything until reaver so he was forced to sit and wait while JangBi's superior economy surged ahead and 3 gates ate away at the unit advantage.

JangBi really delayed his robo to mass units against Stork's timing attack. The reason he knew he didn't need observers is because he knew that Stork didn't know the same. It's less complicated than it sounds. All Stork has seen from JangBi is a fast core and 1 gate dragoons, Stork has to be aware of the possibility of a dark rush and therefore has to open robo. Because Stork is forced to open robo JangBi isn't. Of course it all gets very metagamey at this point with what-ifs but it all goes back to that first scouting probe going the right way.

Stork got his reaver out, collected his army and moved in for the attack. He still hadn't scouted JangBi but he should have been able to rule out all options but a FE because nothing had happened yet. JangBi backed deep into his nat, created a big killzone and invited Stork into it which he promptly did, reaver first. With his heavy support sniped Stork's army lost all momentum and despite extremely bad pathfinding by JangBi's dragoons allowing his 5 to die to Stork's 4 the 3 gateways swiftly cleaned it up with ease. With his attempt to kill JangBi's nat defeated Stork was forced to go 2 bases himself, counter expanding a full three and a half minutes after JangBi. However money matters and JangBi had 4 gateways to Stork's 2, more probes and a far greater income. Even the tech which had been Stork's sole advantage had been evened out by now. As Stork's expansion finished JangBi moved in for the kill, sniping the reaver and then trading goons, secure in the knowledge that he was making them twice as fast. Only the arrival of a hero reaver which secured 4 goon kills for 0 losses (surviving on very red health) saved Stork from an immediate loss. It didn't matter though, JangBi was going to 6 gates before Stork was going to 4. JangBi had more probes, more gas and speedlots coming. He had the money, he had the units, he had the map control. Stork camped his natural for a while, desperately hoping JangBi would engage him on his terms and suicide an army but when he scouted JangBi taking his third he realised he would not play ball. Forced to attack he moved out with a large army of zeegoonreaver whereup JangBi pulled a cute trick out of his deck. JangBi knew that the robotics facility had been pumping reavers full stop to desperately try and even up the advantage. JangBi knew that Stork had been massing units full stop for the same reason. Once Stork's main army moved out a single dt crept into his base and killed 30 probes, revelling in the lack of cannons and observers. The battle itself was closer than it should have been. JangBi had been skipping reavers in favour of mass early and then storm but storm was just too late to help and Stork won. However although Stork pushed the advantage the severe lack of probes meant his unit supply dried up completely. JangBi's reinforcements kept coming and Stork was forced to conceed.

GG

I think it's important to recognise here exactly how key the scouting probes were. The build orders allowed JangBi to pressure while denying scouting after killing the scout probe early, all off 1 gate goons. That meant all the information Stork had to work with was that JangBi had goon tech and at least 1 gate. And that's not helpful. Stork was forced into a general counter build and while it's a good build and doesn't play that badly against JangBi's FE build it is still less than ideal. Against a player like JangBi, that's enough. The timing attack failed (reavers go at the back Stork) and the only reason the game went on any longer is because a single reaver claimed 7 dragoons during the attack at Stork's nat.



2set on Destination

Game 2 saw Destination, a 2 player map that is very difficult to cheese on. The natural bridges are excellent for holding against massgoon and walling against darkrush. The fact that it's 2 player assures a fast scouting and you can always tell when they proxy if your scout probes don't cross in the middle (at this level at least). So, the better player should win. Go JangBi!

Stork warped in at 11 while JangBi took 5. Both mirrored perfectly, opening 8p, 10g -> scout and then checking the far side of their nat for proxy 99s and checking their main on about 12 psi.

Seriously guys, check. It slows your scout probe for a total of one second to go slightly further in the nat and it's about 5 seconds mining time to check your main. Stop losing to proxy 99s and realise you don't actually have to, you just have to remember to play safe.

JangBi again opened 13 core against Stork's 12 pylon opting for the faster tech. However unlike on Byzantium where you have to hold your nat area to avoid a lethal contain and your nat area is a big flat sniping area the nat of Destination is easier to defend with rangeless goons. The significance this game will be much less than last. Both players immediately went for range leaving the JangBi slightly ahead with a faster range and an extra dragoon instead of a second zealot. Returning to a near perfect mirror they both chose to FE off of just 1 gateway, defended by the bridges. JangBi again used his excellent goon micro to harass with his faster range while Stork used a probe he had hidden at 4 earlier to scout JangBi's build.

They both went 2 gate goon with robo, although JangBi had a slightly faster expansion and had damaged many of Storks units by stealing free hits. Oddly enough I think Stork actually had a larger army than JangBi, and he definitely did at his nat. However those bridges work both ways and if Stork actually tried to move out and deal with the goons it'd cost him more than it was worth.

So, they enter the midgame with the same build in a still near perfect mirror (perhaps a slight advantage JangBi). Both players opted for templar tech rather than reavers but the price of Stork's superior army was shown by the significant delay in the speed with which they reached storm. Conscious of how he'd lost the game before Stork remained at 2 gates off his 2 bases (you can support 7), choosing to make a forge while JangBi made the 3rd gate. JangBi made a shuttle, placed a dark and 2 stormers in it and then, content that he'd done all the teching and macroing he felt he needed to, JangBi threw down another 4 gates and went into pure goonzeestorm macro mode.

Storks defensive cannons were a wise choice as although he had goons and obs in his main to block the first dark they would have moved at some point and his mineral line would have been abused. However although Stork killed the 1 dark dropped without loss the distraction provided cover for the stormers to hit his mineral line, causing some damage (probably about the same as it cost). Stork reacted by going to 6 gateways himself and continuing the mirror game (albeit with a slightly worse economy).

Strangely enough Stork opted for fast darchons. Now I really like this because if your opponent is going zeegoonstorm you kind of have to go zeegoonstorm too. Storms pretty much rape reavers and early Destination is very unfriendly to archons PvP(they don't like the bridges and goons snipe them). And if your opponent is definitely massing stormers then the ability to snipe them for 50 energy each is a great deal. Evidently JangBi and Stork have been in this situation before and both know each others' game. Just so you Terrans and Zergs can appreciate the full extent of this. Imagine irradiate with much more range and a faster cast time and only 50 mana. Imagine PvZ if broodling cost 50 but could only hit stormers.

The two armies sparred a little in the middle, both unwilling to venture across the bridges (clumped units + storm = ). I'd have been interested to see the psi counts at this point. I believe JangBi was ahead but neither player had any real advantage in this still near perfect mirror. Both players took the gas expansion by their main (4 and 10) at the same time. I believe JangBi hit 200/200 first and he kept making attempts to establish a beachhead on the far side but Stork did an excellent job of constantly reforming his front line so no matter where JangBi crossed he would always be attacking into a superior concave with his units dangerously clumped. Soon after Stork reached 200/200 and the attempts to cross came both ways with both responding equally well to shut down any attempt. Forced to spend their money they both took over their respective sides of the map, adding as many gateways as they could to allow them to replace their armies immediately and in JangBi's case, stargates for arbiters.

Surprisingly JangBi was the first to make a mistake. He regrouped his army into a single mass near his nat and Stork leapt on the opportunity to cross the bridges and establish his entire army concave free on the far side of them. JangBi responded immediately with his full army but it was too late and his battle line too disorganised. His zealots all got stuck on each other on his left flank, falling victim to several very well placed storms which covered the entire group. At the same time his right flank was beaten back by Stork's zealots which promptly hit his dragoons. Although JangBi's army was perhaps better at the start of the fight his left flank got owned by storms and when the zealots broke through they couldn't do sufficient damage. Although Stork 'won' the fight it wasn't the victory he needed. Both their armies were reduced so much in size that the huge sweeping concaves that had enforced the stalemate before were temporarily gone. Lacking the units to press his advantage Stork gave up and attempted an expansion at 9 which was immediately shut down by a well placed dark. JangBi remained ahead, their armies were still well balanced and JangBi was actually ahead a base as well as technologically ahead with his arbiters. Both players massed back up to large armies while Stork evened up the base count by taking 2. However in another display of sloppiness (he didn't have the same observer line on the bridges as Stork) JangBi allowed Stork's army to safely cross at 8 and then set up it's own concave there as well as hitting his expansion at 7. JangBi realised it was too late to salvage his mistake and rather than suicide his army into Stork's contain at 8 went allin for a counterattack towards 2. Stork realised it was suddenly a race to the finish, his own expansions beyond saving but JangBi's equally vulnerable. He headed immediately towards JangBi's heart but was caught out of position by JangBi's army which had pulled back at the last second. While the fight was good the arbiter made a great difference, cloaking causing lots of bad AI, storms wasted downing the arbiter and an excellent stasis on a group of zealots with an archon. JangBi won the battle convincingly, his surviving units sufficient in number to give him an exponential advantage in every fight for the rest of the game. Despite some expansion trading and counterattacks from Stork the game was over.

GG

This was a great game. The army control by both players was fantastic, the attention paid to concaves, unit positioning, unit combos and metagame was excellent. Stork's constant repositioning of his smaller army when trying to stop JangBi crossing was perfect. It's no secret that I'm not a huge Stork fan but I really cannot find much to fault with this game. In the end he lost because he took 2 too slowly and he didn't go arbiters. However the game was a complete mirror until JangBi's arbiter finally gave him the first decisive victory of the game. Both players showed a fantastic level of play and degree of understanding of the matchup.



3set on Carthage

Game 3 on Carthage. If the first two games are anything to go by then JangBi will most likely wow us with his goon micro but Stork's solid builds will not put him at any real disadvantage. It'll get ground out for a while and eventually JangBi will win, although not without really being made to work for it first.

JangBi spawned at 11 and opened 8 pylon scout, probably a wise move when you're 2 games up on a map where proxies are very easy. Stork on the other hand played ambitiously with a 13 core build, guessing JangBi wouldn't proxy and having his suspicions confirmed by the early scout probe (a proxy 99 one would be slower) and a safe build wouldn't feel the need to scout so fast. JangBi opted for the standard 2nd pylon before core opening leaving Stork with faster range and goons on an open map with no ramps to defend the main. However in a moment of appalling carelessness Stork let himself get manner pyloned, trapping 3 probes and blocking 2 crystals. Manner pylons are annoying if you do the safe opening with the fast zealot to deal with them. They're far, far more damaging if you go straight to goon. Stork's build order advantage became a large disadvantage in a single moment of sloppiness. It's not like he couldn't see what JangBi was trying to do either, he just didn't think it was worth keeping a probe there until he could place an antimanner pylon. While he successfully drilled 2 probes out and made a zealot (at the cost of cutting a probe) it still significantly delayed him while JangBi's economy kept on pumping.

JangBi opted for a 2 gate goon robo build while Stork faked an expansion while proxying 3 gateways at 1 for a timing attack against JangBi's army while it was out of position attacking his 'expansion'. Unfortunately things didn't go to plan. Maybe someone Stork trained with talked to JangBi, maybe JangBi has just played with him that much, maybe JangBi hacks. For some reason JangBi sent a scout probe straight to 1 just after the gateways were made, forcing all 3 to be sold and leaving a completely tragic expression of Stork's face. His fake expansion had lost all credibility and his mass had been delayed.

Stork transitioned into a 3 gate reaver build but his robo was delayed by the fact that his original plan hadn't involved a robo. While their goon count was reasonably well matched JangBi got a speedshuttle with a reaver early and hit Stork's mineral line. Scarabs hit for once and 10 or so probes went down for no losses by JangBi. Realising he was more behind than ever (he'd probably cut probes to 3 gate robo so fast) Stork took his entire army and went allin. They clashed at JangBi's natural area (to maximise travel time without being contained) and JangBi had a few more dragoons. When the dust cleared JangBi's army was still standing and Stork was left with a shattered economy.

GG

Getting manner pyloned is just sloppy. When they go 8-> scout I often delay my core for a second pylon purely because I want to antimanner. The advantage of an antimanner (saved mining time on the blocking probe and much saved time when he may actually have gotten it) outweighs the risk. Obviously Stork felt he could block it more cheaply while going 13 core. Obviously he was wrong. I don't mind his 4 gate proxy trick. With a faked expansion JangBi would have to move out with goons + reaver the moment it was done. That's how a 2 gate robo build works, you get 2 gate goons + reaver and you push. Stork set up an ambush that would most likely have flanked and killed JangBi's army and given Stork the win. However JangBi was expecting it (somehow) and after he scouted it the game was pretty much over. Stork wasn't dead but it was advantage JangBi, and JangBi doesn't need an advantage to win.


Player Marks from [image loading] Kwark

JangBi's grade: A

JangBi showed a very strong game today. If B is his normal, absurdly high skill level then this somehow surpassed it. He was tested in a very close series and his play was consistently strong. I was originally picking Luxury to take this MSL but having seen JangBi play today I'm not so sure. I can only find minor faults with his play which really doesn't matter when he's sending probes directly to proxy gates he can't possibly know are there. I can't see anyone having beaten JangBi today, the strongest PvP I have ever seen.

Stork's grade: A

Stork's PvT may still be sloppy and his PvZ not up to JaeDong standards but his PvP isn't half bad. Stork gets an A because I don't think as much of Stork as I probably should and today he was excellent. He exceeded my expectations of him by far and I can't really find much to complain about with his play. To put it bluntly this is the best PvP series I've ever seen. When all he did wrong in game 1 was scouting the wrong way, all he did wrong in game 2 is not making arbiters and all he did wrong in game 3 was playing a hacker I find it hard to complain. JangBi is really, really good and Stork kept up with him. He didn't beat him but right now I think it's just unfair to expect that of anyone. The measuring stick for players here is how hard they make JangBi work for his win and I don't see anyone doing better.




Finals Preview

[image loading]

alffla: he makes sick banners

(Z)Luxury                            vs                             (P)JangBi

Career vP:
37-27 (58%)                                          Career vZ: 29-19 (60%)
Last 10 vP: 8-2                                                  Last 10 vZ: 6-4

&#91;image loading&#93;
      
&#91;image loading&#93;
      
&#91;image loading&#93;
      
&#91;image loading&#93;
      
&#91;image loading&#93;

This is it: the culmination of the Lost Saga MSL's 86 games. The finals! Seeing JangBi here should come as no surprise - throughout the tournament, he's maintained the impeccable play which made him a favorite even before the group selection ceremony. His opponent's side of the bracket was home to almost all of the tournament's upsets: Leta over Flash, Zero over Yarnc and Savior - even Luxury's victories over Hwasin and Leta were unlikely, given how well both Terrans were playing at the time. Despite his recent results, Luxury finds himself the underdog yet again in this final match - especially because JangBi survived a much more dangerous semifinal opponent.

Here are three key elements of the Lost Saga MSL Finals.


Run, Run, Run, as Fast as You Can...
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Luxury's hyper-aggressive, often-abusive Zerg style has truly come into its own over the course of his MSL finals run. Lux just can't seem to lose when cheese or conniving play is the order of the day: he downed Leta with a 5-pool and a hidden spire feint, took a set from Zero by hiding six lings in the corner of his main, and, most recently, saved KTF's Winners League playoff life by besting Fantasy with 2-hatch muta into 2-base defilers and then easily dispatching BeSt with a 2-hatch hydra bust.

For such a talented low-econ player, Luxury has a curious tendency to look completely lost in straight up encounters - I'm reminded of the 5set from his EVER 2008 OSL semifinal against BeSt, where he decided to stay on three bases and pump pure ling for most of the game, or the 3set of his Ro8 series with Leta, where he sacrificed his nat by morphing guardians and failing to flank.

While Luxury thrives on fast-paced, unorthodox games, JangBi is almost the definition of a monstrous straight up player - he'd much rather deflect an all-in than serve one. Thus, cheese will play a huge role here. I have no doubt that Luxury has prepared at least one all-in build, and the outcome of this match's psychological battle depends on whether JangBi can defend it and force Luxury to play a management-based game. JB must conjure some more of the voodoo which led his scouting probe straight to Stork's proxy 3-gate.

KHAN Protosses: Still Keeping the Silver Mining Industry Alive?
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

original image credit: DhakhaR

Less intelligent Stork haters will continue to chide him for his stock of second-place finishes, but most moved on when he took home the Incruit OSL title. If JangBi isn't careful, he may become these naysayers' new target: the Lost Saga MSL is the third consecutive Starleague in which JangBi has reached the finals, and could be the third consecutive Starleague in which he places second.

The obvious difference between this final match and those of the ClubDay MSL and GOM Classic S2 is that JangBi won't have to face Bisu - but now, with two finals losses behind him, he will have to face his fear of the silver-medal stigma which haunted his teammate Stork for almost two years. Especially considering how relatively easy each of his finals runs have been, if JangBi cannot pull off a win here he will put himself well down the path to becoming "an extremely talented gamer who couldn't perform under pressure". By whomping Stork in the semifinals JangBi claimed the title of Samsung's best player - he now has to prove that title doesn't come with a boatload of silver medals.

The Winners League Effect
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

KHAN put on a depressing performance in the Winners League, as Firebathero and Stork combined for seven wins and a whopping 15 losses. At this moment, however, JangBi might be grateful his teammates sunk Samsung's WL hopes - while Luxury must have KTF's upcoming semifinal match with Hwaseung on the brain, JangBi has no obligations other than the MSL.

In his interview following KTF's victory over T1 in the WL's quarterfinal match, Luxury said he wasn't concerned about his practice schedule:

There is sufficient time if I start preparing today...I believe I will perform well in both competitions. Matches on the big stages requires experience and momentum...I will take the MSL victory and ride the momentum to take the playoff as well.

With almost a week since the KTF-T1 match, there's no doubt Luxury has had enough time to prepare for both the MSL finals and his next Winners League appearance - the bigger question is whether his WL preparations will interfere with his mental focus here. Anyone who has ever had two big exams on back-to-back days can tell you that, even if he has plenty of time to study for both, the mere existence of the second test will affect his performance on the first.


Because neither JangBi nor Luxury is known for this particular matchup, and neither have played a ZvP/PvZ series over the course of this MSL, it's difficult to know what to expect in the finals. Lux fans tout his recent ZvP feats (wins over BeSt, Kal, Bisu, Stork, and JangBi himself back in January) as evidence that this matchup has reached parity with his others, but I remain a skeptic: many of these wins have been unsatisfying all-in affairs (5-pool vs. Bisu, failed cheese from Kal, all-in hydras vs. BeSt). Just how far can Luxury's aggressive style take him?

Not far enough. In JangBi, Luxury has an opponent who is both mechanically sound and excellent at rolling with unexpected punches - see his adaptation to NaDa's fearsome play on Byzantium 2 and his scrappy, build-order defying wins over Fantasy. Sure, Luxury's not a Terran - but JangBi is still JangBi, and that means he has the brains to handle whatever tricks are up Chance Park's very long sleeve. I think JB can survive Luxury and a double dose of Neo Harmony to take this series, and his first Starleague title, 3-2.




One More Thing:

[image loading]


On March 14 2009 16:22 Emlary wrote:
Stork: ah...
JangBi: no dark templars
Stork: ;;
JangBi: ;
Stork: bisu said yesterday
Stork: dark templars are good
Stork: so I was gonna use them...
Stork: but I didn't practice..
Stork: T_T
JangBi: I was originally planning to use a DT build....
Stork: I shoulda listented to bisu T)T
Both: LOL

(translated by Waxangel <3)



This week I have final exams, so I have to admit I'm glad both of the semifinal matches were short and sweet. Next week, I'm on spring break! And what better way to celebrate than by writing about the Lost Saga MSL finals? See you then!

Peace,
JWD (with massive thanks to Kwark and Chill)
Facebook Twitter Reddit
✌
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-19 21:46:54
March 19 2009 21:43 GMT
#2
I seriously loved The Stinky Cheese Man and Other Fairly Stupid Tales when I was a kid.

One other note: if you see "video unavailable" for the second highlight...wait a few minutes or just click through to YT (for some reason it's processed, but won't embed properly T_T)
✌
RoieTRS
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States2569 Posts
March 19 2009 21:49 GMT
#3
Dammit, making me actually have to read to find out who won.
Can't you make a spoiler saying HEY GUYS! ____ WON! LOL! ?
konadora, in Racenilatr's blog: "you need to stop thinking about starcraft or anything computer-related for that matter. It's becoming a bad addiction imo"
SilverskY
Profile Joined September 2008
Korea (South)3086 Posts
March 19 2009 21:53 GMT
#4
LMFAO, I love the front page banner. <3
Graphics
3 Lions
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States3705 Posts
March 19 2009 21:53 GMT
#5
great writeup! the highlight vids are really great.
lol @ convo about DT's
Ares[Effort] *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
DEMACIA6550 Posts
March 19 2009 21:58 GMT
#6
Wow this was nicely written, very descriptive keep it up!
Moderatorgold coin
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
March 19 2009 22:00 GMT
#7
On March 20 2009 06:49 RoieTRS wrote:
Dammit, making me actually have to read to find out who won.
Can't you make a spoiler saying HEY GUYS! ____ WON! LOL! ?


Good idea...added! But you should still read the article
✌
ZooG
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden618 Posts
March 19 2009 22:02 GMT
#8
<3 and lol on the "One more thing"..and the results were pretty expected imo
"Rain, also a name for a meteorological condition" -Artosis
errol1001
Profile Joined April 2008
454 Posts
March 19 2009 22:03 GMT
#9
Nice article, Nice analysis.

The Stork/Jangbi set really was good, despite the 3:0 result.. can't exactly say the same for the zero/luxury one.
Random_0
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1163 Posts
March 19 2009 22:08 GMT
#10
Awesome inside information:
Stork: bisu said yesterday
Stork: dark templars are good
Stork: so I was gonna use them...
Stork: but I didn't practice..
Stork: T_T
ilistis
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States828 Posts
March 19 2009 22:11 GMT
#11
On March 20 2009 07:08 Random_0 wrote:
Awesome inside information:
Stork: bisu said yesterday
Stork: dark templars are good
Stork: so I was gonna use them...
Stork: but I didn't practice..
Stork: T_T


Lol as if Stork needs to listen to Bisu. Stork did excellent in Byzantium, despite his failed attack on Jangbi's nat with his initial two reavers, he still managed to push Jangbi back to his nat. I don' know but to me it seems that had Stork been a little more careful, he could have taken game 1.
"The man who removes a mountain begins by carrying away small stones."-William Faulkner *_*_*_Kolll FAN_*_*_*
jingXD
Profile Joined May 2007
United States283 Posts
March 19 2009 22:22 GMT
#12
Thanks for the writeup. I really enjoyed Kwark's analysis of Stork v Jangbi Game 1. It helped my understanding of PvP a lot.
Last Romantic
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States20661 Posts
March 19 2009 22:51 GMT
#13
Luxury is the new YellOw

:D
ㅋㄲㅈㅁ
Exteray
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1094 Posts
March 19 2009 23:06 GMT
#14
JWD what college do u go to?
Here we have finals this week and spring break nxt week too :o
Zalfor
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
United States1035 Posts
March 19 2009 23:15 GMT
#15
no, jangbi is the new stork.

silver silver silver
555, kthxbai
Vasoline73
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7801 Posts
March 19 2009 23:19 GMT
#16
Lux is gonna take this. Underdog for the win...
Rice
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States1332 Posts
March 19 2009 23:31 GMT
#17
crush him jangbi
Freedom will be defended at the cost of civil liberties.
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14893 Posts
March 19 2009 23:39 GMT
#18
GO LUX
AlwaysGG
Profile Joined March 2009
Taiwan952 Posts
March 19 2009 23:43 GMT
#19
luxury fighting ;D

i don't know i just want luxury to win a title more then jangbi

but i also like jangbi a lot

hoping for a close 3-2

either way i happy wit the result ^^
Trust 神教教主 FlaSh | Believe 火心 EffOrt
Kacas
Profile Joined July 2003
Brazil3143 Posts
March 19 2009 23:47 GMT
#20
the highlight video is an awesome idea
good for those who dont have time but still wanna know whats going on in the starcraft pro leagues.,
I Love Hyori Lee =* icq: 41760400 / msn: kayen_chn at hotm
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
March 20 2009 00:08 GMT
#21
On March 20 2009 08:06 Exteray wrote:
JWD what college do u go to?
Here we have finals this week and spring break nxt week too :o


Stanford
✌
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
March 20 2009 00:13 GMT
#22
Such a great write-up, from all three of you, JWD, Chill and Kwark. Well done, I read the whole thing. I especially liked the mirror matchup analyses --- so many details that I had never known about or thought of. This was the definition of quality coverage.

Marks from Djabanete:
JWD: A+
Chill: A+
Kwark: A+


May the BeSt man win.
joohyunee
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
Korea (South)1087 Posts
March 20 2009 00:27 GMT
#23
It's 2nd finals performance by Jangbi, not his 3rd I believe (unless i'm missing something or the R&S thread is messed up)

I'm excited to see the games that the two players will bring - both of these players are long overdue a title. It can either be an epic showdown or a 1-sided rape. Either way, it'll be entertaining.

Oh, and Jangbi was saying how his build is very weak against DT, not "no DT" type of thing.
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
March 20 2009 00:40 GMT
#24
If Jangbi loses this one I'm gonna cry like a baby. Because you know luxury is going to win by all in faggotry and there is nothing I hate more than zerg han bang. It's so fucking frustrating to see it happen even to pro gamers who are so good at defending and predicting their oponents and they lose simply becuse the zerg denies scouting and choses one of the 15 million different all in timings that needs to be scouted to counter.
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
March 20 2009 00:50 GMT
#25
c'mon JangBi, you can do it
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
March 20 2009 00:53 GMT
#26
On March 20 2009 09:40 StarBrift wrote:
If Jangbi loses this one I'm gonna cry like a baby. Because you know luxury is going to win by all in faggotry and there is nothing I hate more than zerg han bang. It's so fucking frustrating to see it happen even to pro gamers who are so good at defending and predicting their oponents and they lose simply becuse the zerg denies scouting and choses one of the 15 million different all in timings that needs to be scouted to counter.


Yes, I also hate it when zerg players play to win. It's gay.
May the BeSt man win.
latent
Profile Joined March 2009
United States428 Posts
March 20 2009 01:23 GMT
#27
On March 20 2009 09:53 Djabanete wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2009 09:40 StarBrift wrote:
If Jangbi loses this one I'm gonna cry like a baby. Because you know luxury is going to win by all in faggotry and there is nothing I hate more than zerg han bang. It's so fucking frustrating to see it happen even to pro gamers who are so good at defending and predicting their oponents and they lose simply becuse the zerg denies scouting and choses one of the 15 million different all in timings that needs to be scouted to counter.


Yes, I also hate it when zerg players play to win. It's gay.


I think he makes a good point actually. The most recent example being Luxury's 2 hatch hydra push against Best in the ProLeague Playoffs. Obviously you can't fault the player for doing whatever it takes to win, but that doesn't change the fact it's still somewhat frustrating for fans of the zerg's opponent to watch.

Even Boxer, known for his rush/cheese/all-in strategies, couldn't crack a smile when he won an OSL (MSL?) with 3 straight bunker rushes against Yellow (least I think it was yellow).
Moo
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
March 20 2009 01:29 GMT
#28
3-2 finals please. lux winning..
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
amorpheus
Profile Joined May 2007
Bulgaria2144 Posts
March 20 2009 01:34 GMT
#29
it'll be the first time i'll be rooting for samsung player
go jangbi
MuffinDude
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3837 Posts
March 20 2009 01:36 GMT
#30
Even with the double neo harmony, I believe that Jangbi will take this. Go Jangbi.
Zerg can be so abusive sometimes | third member of the "loli is not a crime club" PM konadora to join!
CursOr
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States6335 Posts
March 20 2009 01:38 GMT
#31
this here is a really great write up. its cool to look at. its informative, and its smart. i dont really have anything to add except to say thank you.

just because of my zerg bias, ill be hoping for Lux- but i think jangbi is obviously the superior player. we will see how it turns.
CJ forever (-_-(-_-(-_-(-_-)-_-)-_-)-_-)
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
March 20 2009 01:42 GMT
#32
thanks Djabanete and cUrsOr, your comments are very encouraging ^^
✌
gumbum8
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States721 Posts
March 20 2009 01:50 GMT
#33
On March 20 2009 10:23 latent wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2009 09:53 Djabanete wrote:
On March 20 2009 09:40 StarBrift wrote:
If Jangbi loses this one I'm gonna cry like a baby. Because you know luxury is going to win by all in faggotry and there is nothing I hate more than zerg han bang. It's so fucking frustrating to see it happen even to pro gamers who are so good at defending and predicting their oponents and they lose simply becuse the zerg denies scouting and choses one of the 15 million different all in timings that needs to be scouted to counter.


Yes, I also hate it when zerg players play to win. It's gay.


I think he makes a good point actually. The most recent example being Luxury's 2 hatch hydra push against Best in the ProLeague Playoffs. Obviously you can't fault the player for doing whatever it takes to win, but that doesn't change the fact it's still somewhat frustrating for fans of the zerg's opponent to watch.

Even Boxer, known for his rush/cheese/all-in strategies, couldn't crack a smile when he won an OSL (MSL?) with 3 straight bunker rushes against Yellow (least I think it was yellow).


Yes, but I find it extremely encouraging and entertaining.
Luxury 3-0 and KHAN continues to mine silver...
but really, has anyone REALLY been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
d(O.o)a
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada5066 Posts
March 20 2009 01:50 GMT
#34
Boxer didn't smile out of respect for YellOw. I also think that the tripple bunker rush was a mind game.
Hi.
Last Romantic
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States20661 Posts
March 20 2009 01:50 GMT
#35
On March 20 2009 08:06 Exteray wrote:
JWD what college do u go to?
Here we have finals this week and spring break nxt week too :o


He's a Stanfurdite, afaik.
ㅋㄲㅈㅁ
nataziel
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Australia1455 Posts
March 20 2009 01:52 GMT
#36
Both liquibets :D

I feel so bad for stork though, lots of people hate on him but I think he really deserves more wins tbqh
u gotta sk8
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
March 20 2009 01:57 GMT
#37
On March 20 2009 10:50 Last Romantic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2009 08:06 Exteray wrote:
JWD what college do u go to?
Here we have finals this week and spring break nxt week too :o


He's a Stanfurdite, afaik.


Hey LR, this week I went on a date with a girl who goes to Kal, and she said all of the guys there are "pussy hipsters who wear deep v-necks and have huge choads". Confirm/deny?

✌
Ra.Xor.2
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1784 Posts
March 20 2009 02:22 GMT
#38
I love it when Zerg players I for differant and interesting builds, I find that there is more tension and thus, it's much more exciting. F91 and Luxury are perfect examples of this. I almost always watch their games, just to see what they do.
#1 Flash Fan
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
March 20 2009 02:32 GMT
#39
On March 20 2009 10:57 JWD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2009 10:50 Last Romantic wrote:
On March 20 2009 08:06 Exteray wrote:
JWD what college do u go to?
Here we have finals this week and spring break nxt week too :o


He's a Stanfurdite, afaik.


Hey LR, this week I went on a date with a girl who goes to Kal, and she said all of the guys there are "pussy hipsters who wear deep v-necks and have huge choads". Confirm/deny?



100% true.
(Cal 3rd year here.)
May the BeSt man win.
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
March 20 2009 02:48 GMT
#40
Awesome write-up JWD. Loved it as always, looking forward towards the review on the finals!
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
Louder
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States2276 Posts
March 20 2009 02:52 GMT
#41
These writeups are amazing. They've totally revived my interest in pro BW. Keep up the good work JWD, Kwark and Chill
intotherainx
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States504 Posts
March 20 2009 03:05 GMT
#42
I think everyone underestimates Luxury because of his style. There is a stigma against cheesy / all-in play which is partly justified because lower-skilled players take advantage of it in situations where they are unlikely to win in the long run. However, Luxury is not one of those players-- he has truly mastered low economy play (I would argue even moreso than July and even Jaedong), and he sets the pace of the game, forcing his opponent into a rythmn that Luxury is confident he knows better than others.

Jangbi, on the other hand, is a straight-up player-- but this doesn't make him better. The mindset of the OP is that straight-up play is more legitimate (or at least seems like it), but I expect Luxury's creativity and pace-setting ability to dominate Jangbi. Jangbi is a very strong player-- but only when his game plan works out, and I am positive that Luxury will do everything to get him off his game.

In any case, this is an exciting matchup and I think it will reveal whether Luxury has truly been initiated into the top players club-- one which definitely already includes Jangbi.
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
March 20 2009 04:31 GMT
#43
I'm surprised you didn't make more of the map pool for the finals - Neo Harmony and Carthage are strongly Z>P whereas Byzantium 2 is P>Z. Pretty sure it won't stop Jangbi from raping Luxury though.
brood war for life, brood war forever
JIJIyO
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1957 Posts
March 20 2009 04:43 GMT
#44
Luxury's MSL. Back to the Khan mines for Jangbi. Lux is getting pretty good at bo# games with all his creative strategies. Lux takes this 3-0!
KT_Violet
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
March 20 2009 05:37 GMT
#45
MSL Finals: Battle of the Chokers

Who will choke harder? Tune in!
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
ambit!ous1
Profile Joined September 2007
United States3662 Posts
March 20 2009 06:32 GMT
#46
Great read thanks JWD!
Bisu[Shield] / ♔ SoYeon
Roxen000
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
1226 Posts
March 20 2009 07:21 GMT
#47
Rofl at that game chat.

Awesome read guys, ty.
._.
sib-pelle
Profile Joined November 2008
Sweden162 Posts
March 20 2009 08:15 GMT
#48
I hope the little fat kid will win <3
Jangbi fanboy & Gaming Community Scientist
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
March 20 2009 11:21 GMT
#49
On March 20 2009 07:51 Last Romantic wrote:
Luxury is the new YellOw

:D


i don't know about you but i sorta want luxury to win...
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
vnlegend
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1389 Posts
March 20 2009 11:26 GMT
#50
Kwark's player ratings are arbitrary and have never made any sense. How can one player 3-0 another player and be of the same rating, A vs A? Obviously one has to be playing on a higher level than the other to blowout the series.
Marines > everything
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
March 20 2009 11:37 GMT
#51
This should be one of the better finals i hope ! I was geting sick of all the mirrors this MSL and last one ...
DhakhaR
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United Kingdom721 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-20 12:06:35
March 20 2009 12:06 GMT
#52
KHAN Protosses: Still Keeping the Silver Mining Industry Alive?
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

original image credit: DhakhaR


wootwoot
R3condite
Profile Joined August 2008
Korea (South)1541 Posts
March 20 2009 13:02 GMT
#53
rofl @ the pregame chat

haha
ggyo...
deL
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Australia5540 Posts
March 20 2009 13:20 GMT
#54
Very nice read Bit harsh on Lux's recent games being cheese, though - if I recall correctly his 5pool against Bisu didn't win it for him directly, maybe just got him an advantage and he was good enough to keep it and follow through. Also his WL win against JangBi was legit from memory.

Would have also liked to see some mention of the maps - Carthage and two instances of Neo Harmony is br00tal.

Anyway being too negative - overall I enjoyed your battle reports a lot :D

Gogo Luxury 3-2
Gaming videos for fun ~ http://www.youtube.com/user/WijLopenLos
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
March 20 2009 15:14 GMT
#55
AHAHAHAHHAA
LOVE THE LITTLE CHAT AT THE BOTTOM
that was goldddd

cw)minsean(ru
maximg
Profile Joined June 2008
Israel10 Posts
March 20 2009 16:40 GMT
#56
Is that chat was before the game when JangBi's DT killed 30 probes?
It was nice.
I love this game
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
March 20 2009 16:55 GMT
#57
Don't get me wrong. I respect Luxury for his skill and even though he might not be one of my favorite players, he definately can win straight up games vs Jangbi. I dunno, as a protoss player I feel shitty about the fact that they include Carthage. I can see a protoss defending 2 hatch hydra on Harmony with perfect simcity but I really can't see him defend in on carthage unless he is lucky and his corsair scouts the same lane the hydras travel through. Luxury being a mutalisk god will probably switch it up and go 2 hatch muta some games aswell so Jangbi really can't win with skill only. He needs the luck to scout the right lanes or guess the right tech on carthage. Imo he will probably drop Carthage and one of the Harmony games atleast.

Also if Luxury goes for the burrow bullshit on destination he can probably snag the series with cheese only. I honestly don't see how you can defend vs that. The zerg spends 100 gas and 100 mins and forces the protoss to spend atleast 300 mins, lose about 3-4 probes and delay his tech timing. Also I could see a mass ling surround with the burrow faglings coming in from the ramp side and another group from the bridges to just kill the cannons in the nat.

I guess what pisses me off is that Luxury is good enough to win straight up games but the maps this time are so perfect for all in faggotry that he could just win by doing that. Hoping to see an epic match but with the playstyles of the two players and the maps it looks like that's not gonna happen.
Pholon
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Netherlands6142 Posts
March 20 2009 17:06 GMT
#58
Let's get hyped people!

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Moderator@TLPholon // "I need a third hand to facepalm right now"
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-20 18:12:53
March 20 2009 18:12 GMT
#59
imba thread picture
+
really good writeup
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
bearbuddy
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
3442 Posts
March 20 2009 21:37 GMT
#60
On March 20 2009 07:51 Last Romantic wrote:
Luxury is the new YellOw

:D


No, his brother is... literally

=)
Kyuukyuu
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada6263 Posts
March 21 2009 00:13 GMT
#61
On March 21 2009 06:37 bearbuddy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2009 07:51 Last Romantic wrote:
Luxury is the new YellOw

:D


No, his brother is... literally

=)


lol
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
March 21 2009 06:12 GMT
#62
On March 21 2009 01:55 StarBrift wrote:
Don't get me wrong. I respect Luxury for his skill and even though he might not be one of my favorite players, he definately can win straight up games vs Jangbi. I dunno, as a protoss player I feel shitty about the fact that they include Carthage. I can see a protoss defending 2 hatch hydra on Harmony with perfect simcity but I really can't see him defend in on carthage unless he is lucky and his corsair scouts the same lane the hydras travel through. Luxury being a mutalisk god will probably switch it up and go 2 hatch muta some games aswell so Jangbi really can't win with skill only. He needs the luck to scout the right lanes or guess the right tech on carthage. Imo he will probably drop Carthage and one of the Harmony games atleast.

Also if Luxury goes for the burrow bullshit on destination he can probably snag the series with cheese only. I honestly don't see how you can defend vs that. The zerg spends 100 gas and 100 mins and forces the protoss to spend atleast 300 mins, lose about 3-4 probes and delay his tech timing. Also I could see a mass ling surround with the burrow faglings coming in from the ramp side and another group from the bridges to just kill the cannons in the nat.

I guess what pisses me off is that Luxury is good enough to win straight up games but the maps this time are so perfect for all in faggotry that he could just win by doing that. Hoping to see an epic match but with the playstyles of the two players and the maps it looks like that's not gonna happen.


I agree. A reason why Jangbi thumbed down Carthage even when he knew Neo Harmony's such a bad map for protoss. But in a Bo5, given so much practice time, I think Jangbi can handle it.

On March 20 2009 20:26 vnlegend wrote:
Kwark's player ratings are arbitrary and have never made any sense. How can one player 3-0 another player and be of the same rating, A vs A? Obviously one has to be playing on a higher level than the other to blowout the series.


You may disagree with it, but how does it not make sense? It's just a rating based on a player's strength.
Meh
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
March 21 2009 07:07 GMT
#63
On March 21 2009 15:12 baubo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2009 20:26 vnlegend wrote:
Kwark's player ratings are arbitrary and have never made any sense. How can one player 3-0 another player and be of the same rating, A vs A? Obviously one has to be playing on a higher level than the other to blowout the series.


You may disagree with it, but how does it not make sense? It's just a rating based on a player's strength.


vnlegend, I agree with baubo. If you read Kwark's match analysis, his grades would make complete sense. There's always a good reason for them...in this case you'll see that his match analysis explains that Stork played an excellent match for the most part, and got unlucky here and there. Hence the even grades.
✌
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42673 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-21 08:06:12
March 21 2009 08:02 GMT
#64
@vnlegend
Firstly, JangBi's A grade is higher than Stork's A grade because I expect more of JangBi. Both of them played far better than their normal level and that deserves an A. Giving Stork anything less than an A for his part in a near perfect pvp series would be an insult. It's a rating of how well they played, with an A being the game of their life. This was it.
Secondly, this was not a one sided series. Just looking at the score is meaningless. Perhaps you should watch the games before you attempt to comment on my analysis of them. Neither player was on a much higher level than the other.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
March 21 2009 14:51 GMT
#65
Thanks for the analysis! i really learnt a lot!
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
Heimatloser
Profile Joined March 2009
Germany1494 Posts
March 21 2009 14:54 GMT
#66
kwark gives grades on what he/we expect/s before the game, and what he/we see/s after the game.
all ppl saying "jangbi wins this 3:0" make jangbi get a B wen its 3:1 and C when its 3:2 ;-)
and all ppl saying "stork will look like a total nub" make him get a C if he makes 1 game where he doesnt look like a idiot, B if its 2 games and A if he can manage to make 3 makes not looking like a newbie ;-)
All what KT currently needs is a Zerg and a second Terran
Ganon-
Profile Joined March 2009
Canada68 Posts
March 22 2009 04:01 GMT
#67
Nice finals games,

btw what's the music playing at the start of the intros?
DanceSC
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States751 Posts
March 23 2009 01:43 GMT
#68
lol shoulda listened to bisu lmao ^^
Dance.943 || "I think he's just going to lose. There's only so many ways you can lose. And he's going to make some kind of units. And I'm going to attack him, and then all his stuff is going to die. That's about the best prediction that I can make" - NonY
De4ngus
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6533 Posts
March 23 2009 02:59 GMT
#69
On March 22 2009 13:01 jk87 wrote:
Nice finals games,

btw what's the music playing at the start of the intros?

Red - Breathe Into Me
GANDHISAUCE
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
March 23 2009 03:01 GMT
#70
On March 23 2009 11:59 De4ngus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2009 13:01 jk87 wrote:
Nice finals games,

btw what's the music playing at the start of the intros?

Red - Breathe Into Me


Nope...the 2 tracks are:

And I Was a Boy from School by Hot Chip
I Believe by Simian Mobile Disco
✌
intotherainx
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States504 Posts
March 23 2009 10:35 GMT
#71
On March 21 2009 01:55 StarBrift wrote:
Don't get me wrong. I respect Luxury for his skill and even though he might not be one of my favorite players, he definately can win straight up games vs Jangbi. I dunno, as a protoss player I feel shitty about the fact that they include Carthage. I can see a protoss defending 2 hatch hydra on Harmony with perfect simcity but I really can't see him defend in on carthage unless he is lucky and his corsair scouts the same lane the hydras travel through. Luxury being a mutalisk god will probably switch it up and go 2 hatch muta some games aswell so Jangbi really can't win with skill only. He needs the luck to scout the right lanes or guess the right tech on carthage. Imo he will probably drop Carthage and one of the Harmony games atleast.

Also if Luxury goes for the burrow bullshit on destination he can probably snag the series with cheese only. I honestly don't see how you can defend vs that. The zerg spends 100 gas and 100 mins and forces the protoss to spend atleast 300 mins, lose about 3-4 probes and delay his tech timing. Also I could see a mass ling surround with the burrow faglings coming in from the ramp side and another group from the bridges to just kill the cannons in the nat.

I guess what pisses me off is that Luxury is good enough to win straight up games but the maps this time are so perfect for all in faggotry that he could just win by doing that. Hoping to see an epic match but with the playstyles of the two players and the maps it looks like that's not gonna happen.


hindsight is 20/20
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 41m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ZombieGrub415
UpATreeSC 166
JuggernautJason76
ForJumy 10
StarCraft: Brood War
Aegong 75
Dota 2
syndereN346
capcasts153
League of Legends
Grubby4923
Counter-Strike
flusha767
Foxcn206
Super Smash Bros
PPMD50
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu567
Other Games
summit1g10095
C9.Mang0144
ViBE83
Sick40
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 23 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH301
• sitaska36
• musti20045 36
• davetesta33
• Reevou 8
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 61
• FirePhoenix20
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22386
League of Legends
• TFBlade1610
• Doublelift1421
Other Games
• imaqtpie1414
• Shiphtur398
• WagamamaTV239
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
2h 41m
OSC
15h 11m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
18h 41m
The PondCast
1d 12h
Online Event
1d 18h
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Online Event
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
OSC
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
FEL Cracow 2025
Underdog Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
CC Div. A S7
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
Yuqilin POB S2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.