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[GOM] Duel of Fantasies

Forum Index > News
60 CommentsPost a Reply
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[GOM] Duel of Fantasies

Text byDoctorHelvetica
March 6th, 2009 00:27 GMT
[image loading]

Duel of Fantasies: The Fight You Always Dreamed Of...
TeamLiquid Battle Report by DoctorHelvetica
Analysis by Kwark

The Stage is Set


The hype surrounding the GOMtv special match was incredible; I have never seen the foreign fans so excited. My news post Clash of the Titans brought forth a frenzy of excitement the likes of which surprised even me.

On this day, 3/1/09, Bisu and Jaedong would clash in a series that would prove to be one of the best ever. More than one hype thread was made, the live report thread attracted over 2000 posts. On Sunday morning, I got up with a kind of excitement that is rarely associated with waking up early on a weekend. But this was different.

[image loading]

The stars arrive!


The kings walk into the studio to a roar from the audience. After a brief interview and some banter from Daniel Lee and Nick, the game is set to begin after viewing the players stats. Jaedong is rated incredibly high by the experts and fans, as well as Bisu. However when it comes time to view the stats the players gave eachother...

[image loading]

Someone has been playing with their mouth recently...


Bisu gave Jaedong a 5/10 in Macro and Defense. Defense is pretty obviously Jaedong's weak point, but 5/10 is a rating I'd expect to see on Mumyung; not Jaedong. A 5/10 in macro is an even huger diss, considering the almost flawless late-game and multitask of Jaedong. Lee Jae Dong, in good manner, gives Bisu very good stats. Will Bisu be forced to eat his insult? The clock is ticking.
Game One

(P) BisuAndromeda(Z) Jaedong
(P) 65 - 37 (Z)(P) 28-43 (Z)(Z) 57 - 34 (P)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuJJls-0F4o&feature=related


Jaedong spawns in the 7 o clock position as the yellow zerg, Bisu at 1 o clock as the brown protoss. The tension could be cut with a knife as the game began, that early game drag time occupied with the thoughts and pondering of commentators, fans, and the players themselves. "What will they do?"

Bisu builds a pylon at his ramp, the apparent opening to a Forge FE build. Jaedong does a standard 9 pool build to lay on the early pressure, perhaps hoping for a ling run by on a map such as Andromeda with a very large ramp. Bisu warps in 2 cannons as quickly as possible, an apt defense for the coming ling harass.

The zerglings arrive, and swarm the 2 cannons that protect the warping nexus and main base. Fortunately for Jaedong, 3 lucky zerglings manage to slip up the ramp and harass probes. Bisu immediately warps a cannon in his mineral line and with some very impressive probe micro, prevents the zerglings from doing any significant damage.

Jaedong double expands to the natural and mineral-only, Bisu adds a gateway below his ramp and soon starts the Core > Citadel > StarGate tech. This is the Bisu build, the build that defeated sAviOr 3:0 at the height of his ZvP domination. Could Jaedong handle it?

Jaedong starts a spire at his natural, then begins a hydra den in his main and a 4th hatchery at the mineral only. Bisu pops out a few corsairs and a dark templar and begins a bit of pressure with 3 zealots and 1 dark templar. A dragoon harassing Jaedongs newly added 4th expansion is killed quickly by zerglings and the zeal/dt force comes to wreck some havoc.

The zealots are overwhelmed by lings and the DT is chased away when the ovie arrives. Things don't look so terrific for Bisu. A single Dark Templar makes it into Jaedong's main, killing 3 drones before it is chased away by Hydras.

A force of 5 lurkers create a small contain outside of Bisu's natural. Bisu begins teching to observers to break the contain as soon as possible. A lurker burrows off the cliff of Bisu's mineral only, allowing him to hit some of the probes, delaying Bisu's economy for a short while. Jaedong appears to have the clear advantage in this game.

Bisu breaks the contain as soon as he gets observers and immediately pushes out with a pretty large army. He pushes straight into Jaedong's 3rd, Jaedong lacks the adequate defense, however he immediately responds to losing his 3rd with a lurker drop near Bisu's gateways. When zealots and high templars arrive, he spreads his lurkers out to make it difficult to psi storm efficiently. The lurkers do significant damage, while Jaedong simultaneously pushes out with a lurker ling army.

Jaedong reaches Bisu's natural, by which time the lurker drop has been cleared and the overlords chased away by corsairs. Jaedong's army begins the assault but is absolutely decimated by psionic storms, without doing any profound damage. Bisu clears the zerglings in his 3rd out to take it. Jaedongs advantage seems to have been lost, his army mostly gone and Bisu's mostly untouched. Jaedong takes both islands in the meantime.

Suddenly, a Dark Templar drop wipes out the 12 o clock island and Jaedong responds with a defiler ling drop. Bisu decides that this is good time to push directly into Jaedong's base with his huge ground force, he is pushed back by good swarm placement.

Jaedong throughout the entire battle for the center, fails to do enough damage to Bisu's army and is forced to tap out. Bisu maxed out, while Jaedong fails to go above 100 supply. GG.
Game One Analysis, By Kwark

Bisu spawned at 1 on Andromeda with cross positions going for double scout. Double scout is safe against 9 pool and allows P to recover against 12 11. Bisu keeps scouting probes rather than holding his probes on 13 as usual. This adaption is a reaction to the size of the map where late scouting means you'll be ready to 13 nex before you have the scouting information to do it. Scouting overpool speed he goes 2 cannons and for some reason moves his probe out of JD's main which he really cannot afford to do because he needs to keep an eye on that hat to see what JD is making and stay within sight of that min line to keep his probe alive.

Bisu's probe block was late and a little sloppy but was still very effective. Also the build he used (8p scout, 11 forge scout, 15p, 16, 16c, 18n) gives him a second pylon in his main to cannon off. His immediate reaction of making a cannon is excellent because the 150 cost is far less than the potential loss of not making one and the cannon is useful against muta anyway. Even if your probe micro is excellent, as Bisu's is, Zergs will often simply attack the nexus and force the probes to come to the lings. A cannon does the opposite, forcing the lings to come into the min line where they can be killed.

Bisu then just ran away with the probe count. At the time of the rush he was on 20 probes to 11 drones, a minute later it was 29 probes to 17 drones. Add into that the scouting information of getting a probe in and Bisu was significantly ahead. He knew what JD was doing and was ahead in economy. What I think he should have done is made 7 gateways and smashed into 9 with everything he had, making it two gas each. He was economically ahead and if he invested fully in a zeechon attack I don't believe JD could save 9. Instead Bisu went for 2 gateway darks while taking his mineral only. His dark play was sexy and a good attempt but clearly JD saw it coming and had trained very carefully in always having an overlord in each base. What Bisu tried to do wasn't bad but it gave JD the option to defend against it if he played well whereas mass zeechon doesn't give the same options.

The macro advantage still showed though and JD couldn't resist Bisu's army and didn't even try, instead opting for drop play. The drop made several times its cost but it didn't matter, with both players on 3 bases Bisu was considerably ahead. JD opted for fast hive, sacrificing map control in exchange for extremely secured bases in the island. Bisu did excellently to hit the island before it got established. JD spent his time making the lamest defences he could because his army couldn't face Bisu in an open field. Bisu should have made reavers early to counter the swarm lurkers because his lowtech army simply couldn't engage. By sticking at lowtech units he allowed JD to defend expansions with minimal armies and abuse swarm. Hi plagued zealots were worthless against lurkers. However, while he needed reavers to finish JD off he didn't need lurkers to hold map control and starve JD out. The zealots continued to be completely ineffective against plague but Bisu had the economy to keep up production and hold 5 while denying 11. GG.
Game Two

(P) BisuDestination(Z) Jaedong
(P) 65 - 37 (Z)(P) 31-32 (Z)(Z) 57 - 34 (P)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PraivrliWT0&feature=related


Jaedong spawns as the red zerg at the bottom, Bisu as green at the top. Jaedong tries to mask his 12 hatch build by blocking the probe (which gives off the appearance of an aggressive build) but the probe runs through and Jaedong immediately expands. A probe at the 3rd almost kills a drone moving to expand, but he builds an extractor and cancels it, regenerating the drones health. Bisu uses excellent probe micro to block the 3rd hatchery and even builds a pylon in the hatchery location.

Jaedong's 3rd goes up and he once again opts for Spire before Den. Jaedong takes a 4th and masses lings near Bisu's natural. Jaedong busts the natural, takes out an assimilator and then runs by into Bisu's main. Meanwhile he snipes Bisu's corsair with scourge. The incoming shuttle is deftly sniped as well.

Bisu fails to damage Jaedong, and after that much money in corsairs and the shuttle lost he is overran by Jaedongs hydras. Bisu taps out. GG
Game Two, Analysis by Kwark
Bisu's opening build was correctly adapted to JD's and ideal. He made his forge late, made just one cannon and got his tech up as fast as he could. His probe harass of JD's third was excellent and really hurt JD's macro while consistently scouting. Running his scout probe out was plain bad, the lings didn't have speed and he was next to the mineral line. He could have kept the probe there until lair finished. Of course you do eventually have to check the nat because tech buildings can be made there but not until the lair finishes. The stargate is mandatory in PvZ because the P absolutely has to know what the Z is doing. If you have a scout probe in their base you can hard counter them. 1 stargate sair is not really useful against muta nor hydra and I don't understand why he did this. He did the same in game 1, if you have a probe in their base keep it near the mineral line and keep drilling it away from the lings. Unless he gets speed you should be safe.

Bisu defended well against the speedling attack and played well to have what he needed to hold it. However he really should have blocked the ramp better. You could argue that blocking the ramp with his zees left his cannons vulnerable to a second wave but that could easily be prevented just by sending out another scout probe for early warning. In my opinion his mistake was making 4 corsairs and then losing some, too few to do anything (the critical mass for killing stacked scourge without loss is 5) but enough to take a big bite out of his eco. By wasting zealots and suiciding sairs he lost all offensive potential and let JD go crazy on 4 bases with mass drones. Losing the shuttle was the nail in the coffin as JD just pushed further and further ahead. I don't think he should have gone corsairs or robo, there was simply no need given the scouting information he had. His reaversair harass was really late and was completely destroyed. Then JD just overran him.
GG
Game Three

(P) BisuMedusa(Z) Jaedong
(P) 65 - 37 (Z)(P) 36-30 (Z)(Z) 57 - 34 (P)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCptYAojypM


Jaedong spawns the yellow zerg in the bottom, Bisu the orange protoss at the the top right. Jaedong opens with a 9 pool, while Bisu yet again decides on a Forge FE. Jaedong takes the natural and mineral-only, while Bisu constructs a sim-city that Jaedongs zerglings can't penetrate.

Bisu scouts the natural that he wasn't aware Jaedong had, the commentators are quickly excited. Bisu meanwhile, opts for the Bisu Build getting an early citadel. Jaedong then takes a 4th expansion, while Bisu scouts effectively with his first corsair. The corsairs are chased away by scourge when Bisu moves out to the center with a small force. Jaedong morpsh 2 sunks in his nat to avoid the harass. However he loses a large bit of his army in an encounter.

Bisu find Jaedongs other expansion and begins attacking with his zealot force. Jaedong sends a huge force of zerglings in but not in time to save the hatchery. Bisu's army is cleaned up, but they did their damage.

Bisu continues his pressure and after taking down the expansion at 9, Jaedong can't get more expansions than Bisu. A dark templar block prevents Jaedong from doing an effective counter while a corsair fleet wreaks havoc across the map. Bisu's army grew and soon decimated the units that gave Jaedong map control. Massive storms on Hydra's and Jaedong's inability to do damage to Bisu and Jaedong taps out. GG
Game Three Analysis, By Kwark


Bisu scouted first and, as in game 2, reacted appropriately to the scouting information. One of my real pet peeves in Protoss progamers is not adapting to the Zerg. Bisu went 11 forge, 13 nex, cannons against no speed overpool. Getting the probe in was really nice, very cool slide at the end. Bisu got to know exactly what JD was up to and he recognised the build and adapted into a timing attack against the 4th base. To be honest the rest of the analysis is pretty much the same as what SuperDanielMan and Tasteless said. They were reading the situation with the benefit of knowing exactly what JD was doing, but so was Bisu. He pressured well and took down 9 while expanding himself. At 3 base apiece Bisu was surging ahead and while JD had map control for a while, at the price of 9, Bisu blocked it smoothly with darks and a wall at his nat. The corsair switch was textbook Bisu, not an integral part of his strategy but effective in his hands and making him safe against muta. Bisu rebuilt a new army off their equal base sites, moved out and took the win. There were a few battles going either way but all JD could do was break even and the gateways and good storms against hydras eventually took their toll.
GG
Game Four

(P) BisuColosseum II(Z) Jaedong
(P) 65 - 37 (Z)(P) 17-14 (Z)(Z) 57 - 34 (P)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0rASRlvHgM


Jaedong spawns the green zerg in the 10 o clock position, Bisu the teal protoss at 4 o clock. Bisu opens with a 1 gate, strange for a 4 player econ map. Jaedong opens 12 hatch, which might spell trouble with any early pressure from Bisu.

The harass proved ineffective, Jaedong follows up with 3 expansions, 3 gas. He techs to lurkers while Bisu gets corsair tech and adds a citadel and 2nd gate. The lurker defense makes Bisu unable to do any significant damage is forced to defend against lurker and mutalisk harass.

Unfortunately, Bisu ends up spread to thin, Jaedong doing massive damage to his well defended natural and following up with rape in his undefended main. Bisu is helpless against Jaedong's offensive play and taps out. GG.
Game Four Analysis, by Kwark


Bisu opened 1 gate zee into FE. I flat out don't like this build on this map. It's too open and JD is too good at micro. If Bisu could reliably outmicro his opponent then I'm sure it'd be good but this is JD, what works against Bisu's practice partners on SKT (lol) might not work here. Cross positions hurt him a lot too, losing a zealot that would have gotten home safely on shorter distances and having less time to harass. It didn't leave him that far behind (although I really don't like it vs 9 pool speed) because JD went 12 11 but it wasn't ideal. Bisu had little scouting information, knowing that JD opened 3 hat gas but not where he went from there. Lurks on the high ground of the 2nd nat really fuck P over, hydra breaks are very dangerous on Colosseum and mutas are dangerous too. Trying to defend against all of them with a few sairs, 2 gate speedlots and a few spread cannons left him spread too thinly to defend against mutas in the hands of a player like JD. Against players with micro that good you need to know what you're facing or just blind counter and autolose if you're wrong. Spreading yourself really thin isn't going to cut it. Feel free to try and cover all your options if you're sure you can recover later in the game on ICC, it's safer, but against a player who can exploit a slight weakness like JD can you will lose. JD didn't even go for Bisu's main which was utterly undefended. He attacked the strongest point and still did huge damage to Bisu. Bisu really had to scout and try and get some read on his opponent, instead, as he did in game 1 and 2 he moved his scout probe home far too early.

Bisu tried to buy some time by suiciding his zealots which saved him his nat but it didn't matter. By losing that many corsairs, cannons and zealots for absolutely no damage done he had lost the game. To give you an idea of the scale of what happened, JD ended up on 83 control to Bisu's 59 psi. If it were the other way round Bisu would be even in this game, this way round is simply over. Bisu tried to hit JD before he got the hydra out, trying to do some damage against mutaling but the timing window was long gone. Hydra were out in big numbers with their upgrades and the mutalisks dispatched stormers and cannons leaving Bisu unable to resist the hydralisks. GG.
Game Five

(P) BisuAndromeda(Z) Jaedong
(P) 65 - 37 (Z)(P) 28-43 (Z)(Z) 57 - 34 (P)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFjTTN-9D8U

After 4 rapes, two from each player, the deciding moment has begun on the most imbalanced map in the pool. The anticipation is thick in the air. Get ready to be disappointed.

Jaedong spawns the purple zerg at 10 o clock. Bisu the teal protoss at 4 o clock. Bisu does a 1 gate build, blocking his ramp with probes and zealots against the 9 pool speed laid down by Jaedong. He builds a fast nexus at the mineral only and soon Jaedongs zerglings arrive.

He kills the probe and manages to slip 7 zerglings in Bisu's main! Immediately, the ramp is broken and Jaedong rallies his zerglings into Bisu's main. The flood of zerglings can't be stopped and Bisu taps out. GG. Disappointing rape, due to mismicro.
Game Five Analysis, By Kwark


Bisu opened with a similar build to game 4, but this time defence orientated. I'm going to admit I like his build here. It's very unusual but it's not really bad when you're reasonably sure your opponent will go pool. Here's why. 1 hatchery ling speed builds are awful at taking ramps off P, even off 1 gate Ps. They simply cannot make enough lings to break the ramp. This means that Bisu can FE, as he would normally (although this time to his min only) and use zealots instead of cannons without risk. If JD opened 12 11 he would have the unit production to overpower the zealot wall but off 1 hatch he has no offensive potential and a big economic deficit off the bat. Bisu's FE gives him the probe production to rival a zerg powerdroning which means JD cannot easily recover that deficit even if he macros his ass off and those extra zealots make a midgame timing attack extremely dangerous.

I really like Bisu's build here and I think it would place him firmly ahead of JD's speedling stuff which is simply useless against a ramp walled with that many zealots. Which would be relevant if the ramp was walled.... Which it wasn't...
.
Just to give the stats of it when the wall failed. JD, 1 hatch, 1 building. Bisu, 1 nexus, 1 building. JD, 10 lings. Bisu, 3 zealots + ramp. JD, 9 drones with drone production completely halted. Bisu, 18 probes with probes still pumping and probe production to rival JD's drone potential. There is simply no denying that this build was very advantageous against JD's opening, the probe count says it all.

Bisu must be hating himself. Such a stupid way to lose and his build was clever and had worked perfectly, with JD handing him an advantage on a silver platter. I'm frustrated by it too, not simply because I really wanted an epic game 5, not just because Bisu had the advantage and I love Bisu but also because this epic series still doesn't give me any clue about who is better, Bisu or JD. It was so anticlimatic, both owning twice, both getting owned twice and then a game where Bisu should have won and JD did win. You could see it in their faces, JD was disappointed that he didn't get to prove himself and Bisu was frustrated that he threw the game.

A real pity.
A King is Crowned


Jaedong takes the series 3-2, after four extremely high quality games and one disappointing fluke, but an entertaining series none the less. Bisu and Jaedong are both obviously disappointed by game 5, Bisu saying he had the game won but his micro unfortunately failed him, Jaedong saying "This series isn't over..."

[image loading]

The legend killer takes another victim and the spoils.

Thus one of the best series in history is over. One can only hope for a Bisu vs Jaedong OSL finals, a Best out of Five between them has proven to produce some of the most exciting and impressive games ever witnessed in the history of BroodWar. An exciting match, a sad conclusion, a promising future. This was the duel of fantasies.
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RIP Aaliyah
Kyuukyuu
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada6263 Posts
March 06 2009 00:52 GMT
#2
Fuck yeah, great writeup, OSL finals rematch gogogo!

Game 5 was okay purely because of Tasteless's "IT'S CALLED HOLD POSITION, BRO" that had me waking my parents up at 3am
Makhno
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Sweden585 Posts
March 06 2009 00:53 GMT
#3
Nice writeup, good indepth analysis. Man, I hope to see these to in the OSL finals so bad it's ridiculous. The highest level of PvZ ever to be witnessed occurs when these two dictators of their respective races do battle. Heres to a 30+ minute set 5 OSL finals game on andromeda!
"If I think, everything is lost"
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 06 2009 01:02 GMT
#4
I'm actually pulling for Hwasin vs Bisu finals, with Hwasin 3:2.

But this series was excellent.
RIP Aaliyah
imperfect
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada1652 Posts
March 06 2009 01:03 GMT
#5
very nice read. good analysis by kwark, good summary by helvetica

im really sad for the game 5, even moreso now that i have read the analysis. Jaedong you can have your crown.. but just wait until OSL finals! ^^

i'm hoping for a JD vs Bisu OSL finals. that will be a series that you can tell your children's children to.
blind bisu free and anytime fanboy.
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21243 Posts
March 06 2009 01:06 GMT
#6
Good stuff, yarr.

People shouldn't read too much into Game 5, 4 spectacular ones should be enough. Totally worth missing that night of sleep.

The 5/10's by Bisu, the hell was that lol...

And yeah, praying for Jaedong v Bisu finals. ^^

TranslatorBaa!
CDRdude
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States5625 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-06 01:07:37
March 06 2009 01:06 GMT
#7
I liked the writeup. I hope they run into each other at the OSL finals, that series wasn't as epic as it could have been.
Edit: Was this the first time jaedong has ever played the fifth game in a bo5?
Force staff is the best item in the game.
eatmyshorts5
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States1530 Posts
March 06 2009 01:08 GMT
#8
[image loading]


Saved for future reference.

Priceless....
BF:BC2 ID: BisuStork//CJ Entusman #32
nataziel
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Australia1455 Posts
March 06 2009 01:09 GMT
#9
These games were probably the most perfect games I've ever seen played, these two are just on that huge level, and were in top form on the night.

It's called hold position bro!
u gotta sk8
AlTheCake
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada1071 Posts
March 06 2009 01:11 GMT
#10
Great writeup!

I was quite disappointed by game 5 as well, though.
ony
Profile Joined February 2009
Germany39 Posts
March 06 2009 01:13 GMT
#11
Uuuh that's what i call a nice wirteup!

It's really informative and the indepths analysies are nice!
Keep up the good work and thx a lot!
look behind you, a three-headed NaDa!
GrimAngel
Profile Joined September 2008
United States416 Posts
March 06 2009 01:18 GMT
#12
I really liked how cut throat the first four games were. It was like if they made one mistake you can tell the opponent won. It wasn't really back and forth and it was pretty clear from the beginning of the first 4 games who would win. It was still very entertaining tho.
Wan step ahead!
TheTyranid
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Russian Federation4333 Posts
March 06 2009 01:18 GMT
#13
That other chart is total bs. Here's the real chart.

[image loading]
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
March 06 2009 01:18 GMT
#14
On March 06 2009 10:06 CDRdude wrote:
I liked the writeup. I hope they run into each other at the OSL finals, that series wasn't as epic as it could have been.
Edit: Was this the first time jaedong has ever played the fifth game in a bo5?

Yes, Bisu broke that "streak". It was also the first time Bisu lost the deciding 5th set.
Jaedong
RogerRus
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Norway87 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-06 01:24:03
March 06 2009 01:21 GMT
#15
On March 06 2009 09:52 Kyuukyuu wrote:
Game 5 was okay purely because of Tasteless's "IT'S CALLED HOLD POSITION, BRO"


The first 4 games were truly epic, I really really hope we get to see them fight over the OSL title too.

Was nice read, even tho I watched the games earlier.

Edit: After the mistake Bisu made in the 5th game Jaedong really should rate him 1 in micro next time xD
Bisu's ranking of Jaedong was bm =P I knew from the point I saw those rankings Bisu would loose.
I would love to change the world, but they wont give me the source code!
skronch
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States2717 Posts
March 06 2009 01:22 GMT
#16
Great writeup, epic series.

Analysis is rather biased though, all I see is "Bisu this" and "Bisu that". While it is great from a protoss standpoint, as a zerg player, I'd like to see an analysis on Jaedong's performance as well
oo_xerox
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States852 Posts
March 06 2009 01:24 GMT
#17
If bisu wins 2 games then he will win the series.................yeah..........riiiiight.
I could get a more coherent article by gluing a Sharpie to a dog's cook and letting it hump the page.
RogerRus
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Norway87 Posts
March 06 2009 01:26 GMT
#18
On March 06 2009 10:18 TheTyranid wrote:
That other chart is total bs. Here's the real chart.

[image loading]

LOL! Indeed!
I would love to change the world, but they wont give me the source code!
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42682 Posts
March 06 2009 01:27 GMT
#19
I don't feel qualified to write an analysis on what zerg should do. Was an intentional bias. I only did it because I had no MSL writeups this week so it was a one off.

That said, I appreciate any feedback and appreciation.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
March 06 2009 01:32 GMT
#20
I was surprised by JD words that "bisu's style is very technical and has weaknesses in the early game". It was kind of weird because I've seen many times Bisu pulling out incredible defense just by his probes and a zealot or two like in the game on Neo Harmony where he deflected the early ling pressure like it was nothing. The mistake was very untypical for him, but... it happened. By the expression of his face I can say that he wasnt much frustrated about his loss (check out his face after losing to Mind in GOM S3).
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
Realpenguin
Profile Joined December 2006
8253 Posts
March 06 2009 01:40 GMT
#21
On March 06 2009 10:18 TheTyranid wrote:
That other chart is total bs. Here's the real chart.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

that's my pic :3

I loved the first 4 games of the series. It was so weird how they were able to completely dominate each other in each of those games. I do like watching games that are back-and-forth, but this was so silly that it was great.

Great writeup and analysis DoctorHelvetica.
<Wolfpox> i remember when MVP beat that one guy, and everyone was like 'whoa' except that penguin dude.
Darth_Ihsahn
Profile Joined June 2007
Mexico138 Posts
March 06 2009 01:42 GMT
#22
Reading Kwark's analysis on game 5 lets me wondering (even more) why didn't Bisu put more probes at the ramp. He scouted Jaedong's build, he knew a ling attack was coming, he had twice the workers Jaedong had, he could've put 3 probes in there and still be at advantage. Maybe he just got a bit too greedy.
What does not kill you makes you stronger.
Deleted User 31060
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
3788 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-06 01:53:30
March 06 2009 01:53 GMT
#23
On March 06 2009 10:18 TheTyranid wrote:
That other chart is total bs. Here's the real chart.

[image loading]



[image loading]


should be in OP imo
Peaked at C- on ICCUP and proud of it! @Sunyveil
Flamboyant
Profile Joined January 2009
United States57 Posts
March 06 2009 02:20 GMT
#24
Karma bit Bisu in the ass when he ranked Jaedong 5's....dumb Beastsu -_- you would of won if you hadn't been such a cocky BMer.

But it's the arrogance and confidence that attracts so many people like me to watch Beastsu's games!
Teejing
Profile Joined January 2009
Germany1360 Posts
March 06 2009 02:28 GMT
#25
Agree, this write up is great for protoss, but i see only very little love for the swarm. Good job nevertheless and lets all hope for a rematch in osl finals.
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-06 02:34:04
March 06 2009 02:33 GMT
#26
Nice writeup...

always enjoy the analysis too. Thanks kwark

I too am hoping for an epic OSL finals.
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
Zozma
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1626 Posts
March 06 2009 02:40 GMT
#27
I wonder if it's possible for players to give eachother negative points? Like, -2 macro: He doesn't build units, he just spontaneously loses them.
BanZu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3329 Posts
March 06 2009 02:43 GMT
#28
COME ON OSL REMATCH GO GO GO
Sun Tzu once said, "Defiler becomes useless at the presences of a vessel."
ambit!ous1
Profile Joined September 2007
United States3662 Posts
March 06 2009 02:53 GMT
#29
nice read! thanks doc!
Bisu[Shield] / ♔ SoYeon
fearus
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
China2164 Posts
March 06 2009 02:56 GMT
#30
nice write up
bisu fanboy
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
March 06 2009 02:56 GMT
#31
On March 06 2009 11:40 Zozma wrote:
I wonder if it's possible for players to give eachother negative points? Like, -2 macro: He doesn't build units, he just spontaneously loses them.

Rock would have -2 macro.
Jaedong
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17727 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-06 03:17:26
March 06 2009 03:13 GMT
#32
On March 06 2009 10:18 TheTyranid wrote:
That other chart is total bs. Here's the real chart.

[image loading]

rofl

I have no idea why bisu would give jaedong such a low defense and macro
Jaedong's the only zerg i know who blocks bisu's harass really well. And pretty much every game i see of jaedong's zvp he just rolls over his opponents with hydra.
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
nttea
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Sweden4353 Posts
March 06 2009 03:37 GMT
#33
thanks alot for this... One minor complaint tho, it seems to me kwark's analysis is a bit too focused on bisu, what he did wrong and what he did right. And much less on what jaedong did and didn't do.
PhOeniX[MinD]
Profile Joined August 2008
361 Posts
March 06 2009 03:39 GMT
#34
On March 06 2009 10:53 Sunyveil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2009 10:18 TheTyranid wrote:
That other chart is total bs. Here's the real chart.

[image loading]



[image loading]


should be in OP imo


ROLF
KT_FlaSh #1
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42682 Posts
March 06 2009 03:41 GMT
#35
On March 06 2009 12:37 nttea wrote:
thanks alot for this... One minor complaint tho, it seems to me kwark's analysis is a bit too focused on bisu, what he did wrong and what he did right. And much less on what jaedong did and didn't do.

It was analysis purely on Bisu, was meant to be that way although I agree it does make it lopsided. Basically I offered to look at the Protoss strategy stuff because I had no MSL duties that week but it was an unplanned spur of the moment thing there was no zerg counterpart.
Sorry about the Protoss bias, hopefully you can appreciate it anyway.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 06 2009 03:42 GMT
#36
For everyone criticizing Kwark's analysis he is a PROTOSS PLAYER. He is meant to analyze mostly the protoss portion.

Usually zulu_nation gives zerg related analysis, but Kwark did this just for fun. So just appreciate the toss insight.

RIP Aaliyah
OnlyChobo
Profile Joined December 2007
Canada126 Posts
March 06 2009 04:10 GMT
#37
can anyone tell me what all the other stats meant thanks
erGo)ProXy
Profile Joined February 2009
United States19 Posts
March 06 2009 04:35 GMT
#38
I was so stoked with JaeDong won, I was even on the edge of my seat in game 5 = /
I <3 JaeDong
LunarDestiny
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States4177 Posts
March 06 2009 04:52 GMT
#39
Stats are Offense, Defense, Macro, Unit Management, Mirco, and Star Quality.
Atrioc
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1865 Posts
March 06 2009 05:58 GMT
#40
On March 06 2009 09:52 Kyuukyuu wrote:
Fuck yeah, great writeup, OSL finals rematch gogogo!

Game 5 was okay purely because of Tasteless's "IT'S CALLED HOLD POSITION, BRO" that had me waking my parents up at 3am


[image loading]
Writerman what
AzureEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1360 Posts
March 06 2009 06:26 GMT
#41
I personally loved the famous game on Blue Storm between these two titans. If compared to their previous matches, these 5 games were pretty disappointing. They had more epic games in the past imo.
Terrans who whine: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=107788
fanatacist
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
10319 Posts
March 06 2009 08:08 GMT
#42
OSL plz.
Peace~
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
March 06 2009 09:21 GMT
#43
If this OSL produces anything other than an epic rematch it's going to be a disappointment. What a great time to be a starcraft fan!
brood war for life, brood war forever
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14893 Posts
March 06 2009 11:04 GMT
#44
good ish
PIJAMA
Profile Joined February 2009
Brazil137 Posts
March 06 2009 11:45 GMT
#45
u have to fight harder bisu!! never give up plz!! ((
Synneby
Profile Joined October 2005
Sweden61 Posts
March 06 2009 12:56 GMT
#46
Are you guys really that uppset about the fives? I mean, he also gave jaedong two tens! If you give someone a 10 it means they have the PERFECT micro and offensive skills. I would never give jaedong that rating.
Bormac
Profile Joined May 2008
Belgium122 Posts
March 06 2009 13:54 GMT
#47
Not exactly the best series from 2009. Not enough back-and-forth for my liking, but maybe that's just me being picky.

Game 5 was disappointing as hell, although it was fun to hear Nick and Daniel's shouts of bewilderment.

By the way, those two make an excellent commentator team. Tasteless obviously has his enthusiasm (I mean during the match - not his little peptalks before the start) and his humor, while Daniel has plenty of tactical insights, can tell a lot about the proscene and brings the "Korean commentator" vibe to the table.

And there's some good synergy between them when they talk about tactics and strategy. Their comments don't overlap too much, they touch upon different subjects, yet they mesh together extremely well.
Code monkeys, best monkeys!
yukido
Profile Joined February 2009
Germany102 Posts
March 06 2009 14:05 GMT
#48
yeah at the beginning of game 5 I thought "now it's gonna be tough for both players. surely it'll be a huge, long, macro-heavy, exciting game.".
boy was I disappointed when bisu didn't hold his ramp and the game was suddenly over.
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
March 06 2009 14:12 GMT
#49
On March 06 2009 22:54 Psyker wrote:
Not exactly the best series from 2009. Not enough back-and-forth for my liking, but maybe that's just me being picky.

Game 5 was disappointing as hell, although it was fun to hear Nick and Daniel's shouts of bewilderment.

By the way, those two make an excellent commentator team. Tasteless obviously has his enthusiasm (I mean during the match - not his little peptalks before the start) and his humor, while Daniel has plenty of tactical insights, can tell a lot about the proscene and brings the "Korean commentator" vibe to the table.

And there's some good synergy between them when they talk about tactics and strategy. Their comments don't overlap too much, they touch upon different subjects, yet they mesh together extremely well.


The problem I have with Back-and-Forth is that it means someone was making mistakes after having the advantage. What you basically want then is people playing somewhat badly to equalize the game.

When both players are playing VERY well they will take any early game advantage and run with it which is exactly what happened in games 1-4. I like that style of play better, razor edge type of thing.

Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
March 06 2009 14:13 GMT
#50
Bisu should have gotten a defense rating of 5 for game 5 lol.
Brood War loyalist
Atlan
Profile Joined September 2007
Taiwan36 Posts
March 06 2009 15:38 GMT
#51
On March 06 2009 09:52 Kyuukyuu wrote:
Fuck yeah, great writeup, OSL finals rematch gogogo!

Game 5 was okay purely because of Tasteless's "IT'S CALLED HOLD POSITION, BRO" that had me waking my parents up at 3am


This.
"It's called hold position bro!"
kawoq
Profile Joined November 2005
Guatemala357 Posts
March 06 2009 16:11 GMT
#52
lol... didnt knew how was the final game until now.. too bad, too anticlimatic.. oh well, pros makes mistakes too ^_^, I guess we all have to wait for the OSL final to see them vrs each other again on a bo5... we will be waiting...
"It is not a shameful thing to be unable to reach the goal. It's becoming afraid and running away, even before considering the fact that the road is long and rough, that is truly cowardly." by - Lim Yo Hwan aka SlayerS_Boxer from "Crazy as me"
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
March 06 2009 16:38 GMT
#53
Good writeup yo thanks
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
ichimarugin680
Profile Joined February 2009
United States182 Posts
March 06 2009 18:31 GMT
#54
Hmm maybe ill make a write up from zerg point of view.
I'd like that Rosh cheeze with some whine.////.... When you feel down and lost read Ecclesiastes 3:1-8
talismania
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States2364 Posts
March 06 2009 18:42 GMT
#55
god this series displayed some seriously high level starcraft. I still can't believe how strongly they played in games 1-4.
Itachii
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Poland12466 Posts
March 06 2009 18:51 GMT
#56
Really enjoyed your analyze Kwark, thanks~
Oh, and also thanks to DoctorHelvetica
La parole nous a été donnée pour déguiser notre pensée
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
March 06 2009 23:15 GMT
#57
Nice writeup, Il'l have to watch the vods
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
potatoedoughnut
Profile Joined July 2008
United States334 Posts
March 07 2009 01:19 GMT
#58
Excellent writeup for some excellent games.

Would be nice to put GOM links in the OP though. I think by now they know the foreigner community is watching, but more hits can't hurt.
Eagles may soar, but weasels do not get sucked into jet engines.
Antoniuss
Profile Joined November 2008
Portugal26 Posts
March 07 2009 10:03 GMT
#59
Loved this series!
Mobius
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1268 Posts
March 10 2009 15:02 GMT
#60
Hillarius that Bisu rates Jaedong a 5 for defence when Bisu fails to hold block his ramp rofl.
Entusman #51
DeathToGays
Profile Joined March 2009
Bahrain4 Posts
March 12 2009 10:06 GMT
#61
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