EPTshitttttt
CJ Entus Shirts on eBay - Page 8
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TryThis
Canada1522 Posts
shitttttt | ||
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wswordsmen
United States987 Posts
On October 09 2008 00:16 TryThis wrote: the saviour shirt is at $455 USD shitttttt you mean shirttttt. there is defiantly 2 tiers of these shirts. Savior/Xellos (~$400-450) and Much/Iris (~$200-250) | ||
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children_in_need
Rwanda2 Posts
When my girlfriend saw the logo she began to get all upset and I was like "wtf is wrong?". I naturally assumed that the logo just implies that gamer's help children in need. Boy was I wrong. In reality, the money raised is used to buy video games or entire consoles for children in hospitals in the USA (minority in canada/australia). When I checked up upon the subject I felt like in Matrix, going deeper and deeper inside the rabbit hole. ALL hospitals on the list are private clinics. Not a single free clinic. So basically, u are paying $ for children that, even fo US citizen standards, are not even close to the poorest of the poor. Of course we dont even have to argue about all the REALLY poor children outside the US, that will never see a hospital from inside and starve to death daily. 9 out of 80 million children in the USA are uninsured. These children are twice as likely to die than an insured child. Their overall treatment is significantly worse than that of an insured child. They sure as hell wont get an xbox 360 in their free clinic to help with the stay. The ignorance and decadence of american society began to gradually bother me more as it reflected on tl.net more and more over the past 6 years. In the past week, with "flamebaiting" threads which find humor in mockery and now this "charity" auction which gives the money to relatively (in world-wide relations) wealthy children, so the difference to the really poor gets even bigger, my personal limit was reached. I have to vent this off, even though I am fully aware that this account will get banned and this post most likely get nuked, just like a critic in a totalitarian regime most likely gets imprisoned or killed. Maybe thats why I didnt post on my real account. Now people might say "its better than nothing" but in my eyes it is not. It belittles real charity. It helps people feel good about themselves, who really should not. If you really want to make the world a better place and spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars for charity, maybe you should spend it on people who REALLY are in need all over the world. Who will die otherwise, not endure some boredom in a hospital. Mind you even for US citizen standards, these children are not even at the bottom of society. Uninsured immigrant children are. I spent almost half a day researching all that stuff so before you cry that I pull those facts out of my ass, here are the sources: http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2007-03-01-uninsured-kids_x.htm http://www.medica.de/cipp/md_medica/custom/pub/content,lang,2/oid,25747/ticket,g_u_e_s_t/~/More_Immigrant_Children_Uninsured.html http://covertheuninsured.org/ Peace | ||
Daigomi
South Africa4316 Posts
On October 09 2008 00:49 children_in_need wrote: I am sorry but this entire child's play "charity" thing is disgusting. When my girlfriend saw the logo she began to get all upset and I was like "wtf is wrong?". I naturally assumed that the logo just implies that gamer's help children in need. Boy was I wrong. In reality, the money raised is used to buy video games or entire consoles for children in hospitals in the USA (minority in canada/australia). When I checked up upon the subject I felt like in Matrix, going deeper and deeper inside the rabbit hole. ALL hospitals on the list are private clinics. Not a single free clinic. So basically, u are paying $ for children that, even fo US citizen standards, are not even close to the poorest of the poor. Of course we dont even have to argue about all the REALLY poor children outside the US, that will never see a hospital from inside and starve to death daily. 9 out of 80 million children in the USA are uninsured. These children are twice as likely to die than an insured child. Their overall treatment is significantly worse than that of an insured child. They sure as hell wont get an xbox 360 in their free clinic to help with the stay. The ignorance and decadence of american society began to gradually bother me more as it reflected on tl.net more and more over the past 6 years. In the past week, with "flamebaiting" threads which find humor in mockery and now this "charity" auction which gives the money to relatively (in world-wide relations) wealthy children, so the difference to the really poor gets even bigger, my personal limit was reached. I have to vent this off, even though I am fully aware that this account will get banned and this post most likely get nuked, just like a critic in a totalitarian regime most likely gets imprisoned or killed. Maybe thats why I didnt post on my real account. Now people might say "its better than nothing" but in my eyes it is not. It belittles real charity. It helps people feel good about themselves, who really should not. If you really want to make the world a better place and spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars for charity, maybe you should spend it on people who REALLY are in need all over the world. Who will die otherwise, not endure some boredom in a hospital. Mind you even for US citizen standards, these children are not even at the bottom of society. Uninsured immigrant children are. I spent almost half a day researching all that stuff so before you cry that I pull those facts out of my ass, here are the sources: http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2007-03-01-uninsured-kids_x.htm http://www.medica.de/cipp/md_medica/custom/pub/content,lang,2/oid,25747/ticket,g_u_e_s_t/~/More_Immigrant_Children_Uninsured.html http://covertheuninsured.org/ Peace So you're saying that unless you send the money to starving children in Africa, you're doing more harm than good? Because if your argument is that we don't pay those who really need it, then that argument should be taken to its extreme. I come from Africa, and I see these starving children everyday, and yes, they do need money more desparately than some child with a chronic disease needs a playstation. However, that does not mean that the child who spends hours, hundreds of hours, in hospital doesn't also need some form of education. Charity is about doing something good for someone who needs it, not only doing something good for those who need it the most. If we all lived 100% utilitarian lives then the world might have been a better place, but then neither of us would have internet, because the $50 it costs you to have internet per month, you could feed at least three children. Charity is about giving some of your own resources to satisfy some need. Child's play is aimed at helping gamers be more charitable, and because of that we support their organization. By paying child's play we're not stopping world hunger or starvation, but we are making a few children's lives easier and better. | ||
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children_in_need_2
4 Posts
On October 09 2008 01:10 Daigomi wrote: So you're saying that unless you send the money to starving children in Africa, you're doing more harm than good? Because if your argument is that we don't pay those who really need it, then that argument should be taken to its extreme. I come from Africa, and I see these starving children everyday, and yes, they do need money more desparately than some child with a chronic disease needs a playstation. However, that does not mean that the child who spends hours, hundreds of hours, in hospital doesn't also need some form of education. Charity is about doing something good for someone who needs it, not only doing something good for those who need it the most. If we all lived 100% utilitarian lives then the world might have been a better place, but then neither of us would have internet, because the $50 it costs you to have internet per month, you could feed at least three children. Charity is about giving some of your own resources to satisfy some need. Child's play is aimed at helping gamers be more charitable, and because of that we support their organization. By paying child's play we're not stopping world hunger or starvation, but we are making a few children's lives easier and better. Yes I am saying u could and should spend the money for people who are more in need, like starving children in Africa. Why don't you? Do you really think the shirts would net less $ if the charity organization wasn't related to gaming? | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
But the only thing I can say is that absent Child's Play, most gamers would never really donate anything. I would prefer that this charity had gone to UNICEF, or something along those lines - but the existence of worse problems shouldn't preclude us from solving smaller problems as well. I'm disappointed that TL chose Child's Play, and would urge future charitable contributions to be directed towards somewhere else - but for now, in the end, Child's Play is still doing good. Somewhere out there, kids will be happier for TeamLiquid's efforts, and it seems callous to suggest that no one ought to help them until starvation / uninsuredness is eliminated. EDIT: To make things clear: I don't agree with children_in_need that this is worse than nothing. I only agree with him that Child's Play tends to diminish the work of other, more important charities. I would have rather seen it go to another charity, but as the rest of my post says, I'm thrilled regardless that TL took the initiative of doing something like this in the first place. | ||
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diehilde
Germany1596 Posts
Secondly I can't really think of a good and satisfying answer why tl.net would choose Child's Play rather than UNICEF or smth tbh. Reading this made me sad 8[ | ||
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Daigomi
South Africa4316 Posts
On October 09 2008 01:29 children_in_need_2 wrote: Yes I am saying u could and should spend the money for people who are more in need, like starving children in Africa. Why don't you? Do you really think the shirts would net less $ if the charity organization wasn't related to gaming? It has nothing to do with the charity bringing in extra money, it has to do with Child's Play being a good organization, and being an organization aimed at bringing the best out of gamers. Child's Play is basically an organization that helps gamers rally together for a good cause, in this case, hunger. Because Child's Play is aimed at Gamers, we support Child's Play. Sure we could have supported another charity, but then we would just be another group making a donation. With Child's Play, we as gamers get to give back to the community in a way which we can appreciate. We're sharing what we've enjoyed as children with those who need it. Sure, it's not curing starvation, but it's helping. I honestly don't get how people can complain about a choice of charity. If we're all honest, none of us give enough money to charity. Do you know what it is like driving past groups of ten year old children every day, asking you for money? I'm not rich, but by giving those children $50, they can probably eat for a week, and it will only dip into my savings a little. Do I do it though? Occasionally, but not nearly as much as I should. Why do I bring this up? Because charity is always voluntary from the person being charitable. Once you start criticizing people for the way in which they are charitable, then you yourself should be outside of criticism, and none of us are. Yes, we could have chosen another charity organization, yes, I can give more money to children in Africa, but TL's choice was to help a charity which they felt an affinity for, and my choice is to help out when I have money on me. Perhaps this isn't perfect to you, but TL chose something that they thought woudl be appreciated, and I definitely think that that's something that should not be criticized. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36390 Posts
On October 09 2008 00:49 children_in_need wrote: I have to vent this off, even though I am fully aware that this account will get banned and this post most likely get nuked, just like a critic in a totalitarian regime most likely gets imprisoned or killed. Maybe thats why I didnt post on my real account. Just to comment on this, I think that comparing this forum to some oppressive regime is just ridiculous. If you voice your legitimate criticisms in a reasonable and non-incendiary way, like you did, nobody is going to ban you. I think posting "anonymously" and hiding your real id removes weight and significance from your criticism. But its your choice, just letting you know there's no way we would ban you for a post like yours. Now people might say "its better than nothing" but in my eyes it is not. It belittles real charity. It helps people feel good about themselves, who really should not. As Daigomi said, all charity is not enough. There's always a better charity that you could donate more to. Is it some great injustice that people you feel "shouldn't feel good about themselves" because in your opinion they aren't donating to a charity you think is good enough? Are you really arguing that we'd all be better of not donating at all than donating to Child's Play? If you really want to make the world a better place and spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars for charity, maybe you should spend it on people who REALLY are in need all over the world. Who will die otherwise, not endure some boredom in a hospital. Mind you even for US citizen standards, these children are not even at the bottom of society. Uninsured immigrant children are. What if people actually want to donate to a charity that buys video games for sick children in hospitals? Isn't it your choice to donate to whatever charity you wish, just as you can buy whatever you want with your money? Just because its not a charity that benefits the people most in need, they deserve to be talked down to and criticized? You'd rather they just keep the money? | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36390 Posts
Look, I can choose what I want to do with my money. I can feel good about contributing to a cause that overall benefits sick children than hurts them. Who are you to say what I can or cannot do with my private funds and judge what choices I make, especially when these choices are done with good intent and for a cause that on base level helps children? I do not believe you are in a position to judge someone who is donating to a charity that overall does good, and you definitely are not in a position to judge what TeamLiquid.net "owes" to charitable institutions in general. We picked a charity that has a connection with gamers; we are, after all, a gaming website. It makes sense we'd pick Child's Play. We are not a nonprofit organization bent on raising funds for many causes. We're a gaming forum where kids come to discuss StarCraft. This is one of the first and best SC:BW community efforts to donate money, and should not be belittled because in your opinion "there are better charities out there." You have to look at the entire context of the community and history of contributions, and relative to that, this effort will at the very least make charitable contributions by gamers more high profile and thus is a step in the right direction. It's NOT hurting other charities because as Grinq said, without Child's Play gamers would largely not donate at all. | ||
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sqwert
United States781 Posts
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LonelyMargarita
1845 Posts
On October 09 2008 01:29 children_in_need_2 wrote: Yes I am saying u could and should spend the money for people who are more in need, like starving children in Africa. Why don't you? Do you really think the shirts would net less $ if the charity organization wasn't related to gaming? If you knew anything about economics, you'd realize giving hand outs to 3rd world countries like African nations destroys their local economies and makes them 100% dependent upon hand outs. If you don't like the charity, don't bid on the shirts. Instead of wasting your time complaining on our forum (where you won't have any effect on anyone), go get a second job and donate all the money you make to starving children in Africa. | ||
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capek
United States585 Posts
On October 09 2008 01:29 children_in_need_2 wrote: Yes I am saying u could and should spend the money for people who are more in need, like starving children in Africa. Why don't you? Do you really think the shirts would net less $ if the charity organization wasn't related to gaming? First: What are you trying to prove by doing this? That TL is doing a bad thing by donating? That you are a martyr for all children by getting banned from a forum for bashing people who have come together to donate money to sick children? That you are so much better than TL because you donate to starving children in Africa? (after posting this, you better freaking donate the combined total of all of the shirts to Africa for criticizing the people who bought the shirts) Second: Why are you complaining about Child's Play's system to TL? Isn't there someone else you can appeal to? (I don't know... maybe someone like CHILD'S PLAY?) Third: Do these kids not deserve help? I understand there are kids who need help in Africa but you make it sound like it is a bad thing to help children in the U.S. The bottom line is that these kids are merely kids, and they are sick. If some twelve-year-old receives a copy of SC:BW with a TeamLiquid sticker on it (highly doubtful... but that's beside the point) and gets a boost in morale because of it that helps overcome his sickness, then we have done are jobs have we not? It's not like we are saying "Screw You" to all the kids in Africa by donating to kids in U.S. hospitals. Fourth: Are you from gg.net? You seem like another TL BANS A LOT QQ guy who is just out to destroy TL's rep. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
So maybe we should all learn a little lesson from this and be friends again  Unknown critic will learn to be more polite and respect TL's initiative of at least trying to help. TL will learn to pick charity funds a little better for next time.Deal? ^^ | ||
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
the alternative to this project was to sell 4 more cj shirts to random members here. this is a good thing, nothing less. -liquid`zephyr | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5282 Posts
It's true that whoever you donate do, basically, you are doing a good thing, but it's clear as day that Child's Play is not in the Top 50 of the 'best' charities you could've donated to... I guess someone thought it'd be logical to donate to a gaming related charity, but I bet your ass that none of the bids for those shirts didn't happen because it goes to Child's play. In fact, if it was unicef, or some kind of Cancer association, I'm pretty sure you'd get at least one hesitant person bidding purely for that reason. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36390 Posts
On October 09 2008 06:27 niteReloaded wrote: children_in_need is right so get off his ass! It's true that whoever you donate do, basically, you are doing a good thing, but it's clear as day that Child's Play is not in the Top 50 of the 'best' charities you could've donated to... I guess someone thought it'd be logical to donate to a gaming related charity, but I bet your ass that none of the bids for those shirts didn't happen because it goes to Child's play. In fact, if it was unicef, or some kind of Cancer association, I'm pretty sure you'd get at least one hesitant person bidding purely for that reason. We're not a large corporation, nor are our users a bunch of billionaire philanthropists. It's kind of cool that theres a charity that buys games for sick kids to play, because its something we're passionate about: games. We're a community of gamers. Sure, there are plenty of charities that may make more efficient use of the money. Your logic about us wrongly choosing Child's Play is flawed though. Would you criticize Michael Jordan for running a basketball clinic for kids when he could be harvesting crops in Africa? What if Bill Gates wanted to buy laptops for poor schools in America when he could be rebuilding homes in China after the earthquake? Certainly there will always be "better" thing to do and affects more people with greater needs, but people donate and pick causes for a reason. It's not unreasonable that a gaming forum donates to a gaming related charity. It's the same as any person choosing to donate to a cause that they are passionate about, and that should not be judged and criticized in the way you are doing. | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27161 Posts
I'm at a loss for words. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36390 Posts
he called this auction "disgusting" and that donating to child's play is worse than not donating at all. you really support this position? | ||
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