EPTThen again it might be that the new generation t is pretty good but the new generation z is simply better..
[Code S] Ro32 Group G Preview/Group F Recap (S5) - Page 4
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
Then again it might be that the new generation t is pretty good but the new generation z is simply better.. | ||
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Jornada
United States223 Posts
On November 07 2012 21:41 ToKoreaWithLove wrote: I'm wondering if there is less the fact that Z is a bit better now and more that we lack really strong terran players. I mean Mvp, MMA and MKP has been the best terrans for most of sc2, and with MMA in a slayers funk, mvp struggling with health and mkp generally self-destructing more than losing there is not really any great ones left. The next generation isnt really as great as the last one. Then again it might be that the new generation t is pretty good but the new generation z is simply better.. I am not one to say one race is OP or IMBA over the other because if i cant beat a race then i do my best to come up with builds that can beat the other. I will say it is getting really hard to defeat zerg because they can macro so easy/units are cheap/ can build 39283492 zerglings in seconds....... that you need to hit a near perfect timing attack or you will be so far behind. I cant stand Zerg which is why as a Protoss player i do everything i can to come up with ways to kill them. One of the only ways i have found to succesfully defeat a Zerg player is to deny scouting by the overlords as much as possible, which is extremely hard but if you can do it then you have a slight advantage to do a hard colossus timing push if they don't see your robo, or whatever build you do. One of the builds i have come up with is a 3 base colossus push. i let zerg thing im doing a 2 base timing push by setting up a proxy pylon defended but just a small amount of units while i do that i get a quick third retreat back to base get two robo's cut probes and continue to produce colossus till i have about 4 then i push and if they dont have air its pretty much gg.. ill load replay later today | ||
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sc_hell
Germany20 Posts
On November 07 2012 18:14 Akaann wrote: It's not surprising tha Zerg is this Dominant, They where in Europe the whole time, and everybody whas crying. Finally it has reached Korea too. Hopefully Blizzard now realise that they need to nerf the BL/Infestor Lategame Army! This Composition is just nearly unbeatable, especially for Protoss, thats probably the reason why there are just two of them in the Round of 16. But how? Nerf infestors even more? I think Zerg needs the Infestors how they are otherwise Zerg is gooing to be UP. MMM will become too strong. The only thing i can think of is nervig the Blords itself. Maybe make them weaker but more mobile is a way.. | ||
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iKill
Denmark861 Posts
On November 07 2012 22:51 sc_hell wrote: But how? Nerf infestors even more? I think Zerg needs the Infestors how they are otherwise Zerg is gooing to be UP. MMM will become too strong. The only thing i can think of is nervig the Blords itself. Maybe make them weaker but more mobile is a way.. I think the problem may be BLs' cost. The high number of BLs right now leads to a high number of broodlings which restricts your army's movement and creates a proportionally impassable wall of free units. If BLs were more expensive but did a bit more damage per shot, they might work out better, as the "broodling advantage" would be smaller. | ||
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Jornada
United States223 Posts
On November 07 2012 23:08 iKill wrote: I think the problem may be BLs' cost. The high number of BLs right now leads to a high number of broodlings which restricts your army's movement and creates a proportionally impassable wall of free units. If BLs were more expensive but did a bit more damage per shot, they might work out better, as the "broodling advantage" would be smaller. Exactly^^^^ | ||
Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On November 07 2012 17:44 StaplerPhone wrote: Great story. Leenock is such a boss. My 2nd favorite player since he met Clide.Oh god my sides. I hope Leenock advances! Funny Leenock story, my friend went to an autograph session at MLG Anaheim with Leenock and MKP. and had two sign boards. He asked MKP to take up an entire board since he's his favorite player and asked Leenock to sign small so he could fit all the other pros on there. Leenock proceeds to sign the entire damn thing and now my friend curses Leenock for all eternity. So go Leenock :D | ||
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Hryul
Austria2609 Posts
On November 07 2012 22:51 sc_hell wrote: But how? Nerf infestors even more? I think Zerg needs the Infestors how they are otherwise Zerg is gooing to be UP. MMM will become too strong. The only thing i can think of is nervig the Blords itself. Maybe make them weaker but more mobile is a way.. I tend to disagree. We saw Leenock pull off really great non Infestor play. I'm nowhere deep enough in the metagame to say that it wasn't because his enemies expected infestors but it definitely is possible. Before the infestor buff, ling/bling/muta was far from dead in ZvT The new maps are also better than the ones we had back then. I think the real problem lies within PvZ and P's ability to abuse the short range t1 with ff. Which isn't really solved but rather compensated by inf/BL vs MS in the very lategame. | ||
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JCKE
United States52 Posts
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cLAN.Anax
United States2847 Posts
Would like to see more victory antics by Commander Keen, but Leenock plus Squirtle seems perfectly reasonable to me.  | ||
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moskonia
Israel1448 Posts
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mhael
United States102 Posts
It's boring. Infestor fungal/infested terran needs to cost more energy or SOMETHING to balance this out. Toss needs a useful air unit like Corsairs in BW. At least Terran with vikings has a chance in hell to stop them; but right now Zerg has too much stuff. Think about the Protoss HOTS units. The stupid oracle basically is getting spells that Zerg Overseer already has. Thanks a lot blizzard - fix your garbage! Anyone shocked that GSL was won by zerg, MLG was a ZvZ FINALS and this years GSL is already shaping up to be a Zerg fest. | ||
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Aserrin
Uruguay231 Posts
On November 07 2012 13:45 Aserrin wrote: "In the constant rises and falls that are Keen’s career, I feel that Keen on an upswing right now." Keen confirmed for 0-4 That was close About the balance thingy I think there's another thing: maps are too fucking big nowadays. | ||
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Jornada
United States223 Posts
On November 08 2012 03:32 mhael wrote: Its so sad to watch Code S and see how SC is broken as a balanced game. Zerg seems so overpowered with the Brood Lord Infestor tech. When you add in spine crawlers vs protoss and there is no answer with toss to get air. In MLG they had a game with maxed zerg vs maxed toss. Toss was maxed on carrier void ray, and mother ship. They got OWNED by infestor and corruptor and brood lord. It wasn't even close. It's boring. Infestor fungal/infested terran needs to cost more energy or SOMETHING to balance this out. Toss needs a useful air unit like Corsairs in BW. At least Terran with vikings has a chance in hell to stop them; but right now Zerg has too much stuff. Think about the Protoss HOTS units. The stupid oracle basically is getting spells that Zerg Overseer already has. Thanks a lot blizzard - fix your garbage! Anyone shocked that GSL was won by zerg, MLG was a ZvZ FINALS and this years GSL is already shaping up to be a Zerg fest. Blizzard needs to look at this post. Well done. totally agree 100% | ||
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Nyvis
France284 Posts
On November 08 2012 03:32 mhael wrote: Its so sad to watch Code S and see how SC is broken as a balanced game. Zerg seems so overpowered with the Brood Lord Infestor tech. When you add in spine crawlers vs protoss and there is no answer with toss to get air. In MLG they had a game with maxed zerg vs maxed toss. Toss was maxed on carrier void ray, and mother ship. They got OWNED by infestor and corruptor and brood lord. It wasn't even close. It's boring. Infestor fungal/infested terran needs to cost more energy or SOMETHING to balance this out. Toss needs a useful air unit like Corsairs in BW. At least Terran with vikings has a chance in hell to stop them; but right now Zerg has too much stuff. Think about the Protoss HOTS units. The stupid oracle basically is getting spells that Zerg Overseer already has. Thanks a lot blizzard - fix your garbage! Anyone shocked that GSL was won by zerg, MLG was a ZvZ FINALS and this years GSL is already shaping up to be a Zerg fest. And where is WCS Asia and it's incredible amount of Protoss on top ? It's true that very late Protoss vs Zerg is problematic though. It's not fundamentally imbalanced, but it's too volatile (you play on your few vortexes, if you miss it's loose, if you hit it's win). You say that Zerg ultra-late is imbalanced, but the few zergs really performing better than everything are Life and Leenock, two extremely aggressive Zergs. They win either in early/mid game, or with a late game powered by an early lead due to successful aggression in early/mid, and sometime with better control in late game (mostly Leenock). Most macro heavy zergs trying to win only on their lategame aren't that successful at the moment. Maybe infestors are a problem, but I don't think their very late is the problem. Maybe a passaging lens nerf ? It solved the problem with HT when Blizzard was struggling a lot to balance them. | ||
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Babru
196 Posts
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EmilA
Denmark4618 Posts
On November 08 2012 04:34 Nyvis wrote: And where is WCS Asia and it's incredible amount of Protoss on top ? It's true that very late Protoss vs Zerg is problematic though. It's not fundamentally imbalanced, but it's too volatile (you play on your few vortexes, if you miss it's loose, if you hit it's win). You say that Zerg ultra-late is imbalanced, but the few zergs really performing better than everything are Life and Leenock, two extremely aggressive Zergs. They win either in early/mid game, or with a late game powered by an early lead due to successful aggression in early/mid, and sometime with better control in late game (mostly Leenock). Most macro heavy zergs trying to win only on their lategame aren't that successful at the moment. Maybe infestors are a problem, but I don't think their very late is the problem. Maybe a passaging lens nerf ? It solved the problem with HT when Blizzard was struggling a lot to balance them. And then there's the 50000 mid tier foreign zergs who are able to crush top level koreans. Do we see the same with protoss and zergs? Are foreign zergs simply superior to foreign terrans and protoss players? Were they born with the same gene that terran players claimed to have when siege tanks did 60 damage and roaches were 3 range? | ||
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fireforce7
United States334 Posts
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mhael
United States102 Posts
I understand balancing the game is hard (which is also why BW was so special and SC is and I think will be special once they fix things.) especially with high tier players who's literal JOB is to exploit things in the game. I just turn a hairy stink eye to zerg right now because it seems they can make more mistakes, have map control, they have more spells, and have the best tier 3 units. They can win games with 1 or 2 units, whereas, terran and toss both need a block of units working together to win games ESPECIALLY in the end game. All I know is that I am not enjoying GSL as much with this cookie cutter zerg play that is very powerful. Although I am very impressed with how stinking good Life is.... | ||
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ES.Genie
Germany1370 Posts
On November 07 2012 09:25 Firkraag8 wrote: So you expect Squirtle who went 3-4 against MvP in the Code-S finals to get knocked down before a newcomer to SC2 like Bogus? Interesting. Leenock+Squirtle should make short work of this group, but Keen has been known to upset so you never know with him. Wasn't too far off, right?  | ||
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