The King Doin' Work - MarineKingPrime advances in first place after two 2 - 1 series.
It wasn't pretty. It wasn't very fun to watch. It honestly didn't inspire you with confidence that he's going to win the season. But the point is, MarineKingPrime showed his Ro16 consistency once again, scrapping it out in Group F to advance in first place. Heading into the night, the group had the potential to maybe even be the best so far in a decent, but not mind blowing, season that has paled in comparison to an exciting season four. Looking back at it now that it's all over, let's just try and make ourselves believe that these four player's styles just didn't mesh well, and they can deliver better games under different circumstances.
MarineKing took the first series of the night against then GSL undefeated Woongjin_sOs (aka Shy), coming back from a 0-1 deficit and taking the next two games. It's hard to recommend any game in the series if you're looking for top TvP play, with MarineKing advancing due to his adequate, though not particularly impressive defensive ability against sOs' all-in builds. A reaper-rush allowed MKP to scout out and thwart a 3-gate rush in game two, while in game three, the king of marines microed decently enough to turn sOs' one base blink-stalker build into a failure.
His series versus Sniper had potential, and indeed, the best game of the night was their first game on Whirlwind. MarineKingPrime went for mass marine-marauder-medivac, with Sniper accepting the challenge to a brawl by going for muta-ling-bane. In a game that was reminiscent of MarineKing's prime earlier this year, his macro and micro were too good for Sniper and he was able to overrun him after a series of battles. However, the next two games were typical MarineKing, but not in the good way. Sniper easily took game two by roach-ling busting an overly greedy MKP, only to have MKP go for a proxy rax and end the series with a cheese rush in the next game.
Heading into the Ro16, MarineKing will be one of the only hopes Terran fans will have to see one of their own get to Las Vegas. Being the only Terran to get first in his group that had a full four players, and actually beating a Zerg to get there, he might be his race's best chance of survival into the later rounds. Polt, Yoda, and maybe even Innovation (formerly Bogus) have the potential to get to Vegas, but MKP's TvZ, when at it's best, is the best we've ever seen along with MMA in his prime. In this new world of Zerg, the Terran race might have to pray that their king of marines finds the magic that he once had in the match-up against the swarm.
GSL: Code Z - MVP.Sniper advances in second place, confirming at least six Zergs in the round of 16 with Life and Leenock yet to play.
Zerg has a chance to be the dominating race going into the Ro16. You might go, 'Well that isn't such a big deal. Zerg is considered the strongest race at the moment, but it isn't that weird, right?'
WRONG!
This would be the first season ever that Zerg would be the most populace race in the Round of 16. For the past two years, Terran have dominated the racial balance, usually having seven or more (even TEN players at the height of GOMTvT) players getting into the second round. With Sniper's advancement, Zerg now has six in the Ro16, still has maybe the two best Zergs in the world waiting to play their groups: FXO's ace Leenock, and reigning and defending GSL champion Life. If those two favorites advanced on, Zerg would have half of the Ro16 field in their possession.
While Zergs are doing a lot better than they have in the past, Sniper is a player who should have been in the Ro16 a lot sooner. Nicknamed the Mini-DRG, he has been the ace of MVP for the second half of 2012, being their anchor in team leagues online and offline. His record in GSTL and Code A have been some of the best of the year, but he wasn't able to transition his skills to Code S last season and got knocked out in the first round.
Picking up wins against Seed and sOs, Sniper will now head into the Ro16 with the challenge of surpassing the man he got his nickname from. Sniper has already pretty much taken the ace role from DRG on MVP, and he now can take over as their singles ace as well if he performs well in the next round. Not feeling too confident in ZvZ might hinder him if he dreams of the glitz and glamor of Vegas, but any Terran or Zerg that has to face Sniper in the next round should be frightened.
- The Fall of Aiur...and Champions...and Elephants
Protoss: Ouch. Can we get the Sad Zealot fan club back up? In a surprising twist that not a lot of people saw coming, Protoss has somehow become the least represented race in Code S again after dominating Season 2, Season 3 and WCS Korea. Having a PvP final in the S3 finals, the WCS Korean finals, and even at WCS Asia, it felt like a new order of Aiur was going to start in Korea. Then, like it was all a dream, Zerg started beating everyone up, Protoss players dropped like flies, and there are only two in the Ro16, the worst since Killer was the lone survivor of his race in GSL OcTvTober.
Rain's forfeit didn't help matters, with only Parting and Creator having been able to survive the slaughter so far. Looking at the final two groups, Protoss has one strong hopeful in Squirtle, but even he might not be able to last against the 11/11 Master Keen, the in-form Leenock, and the innovator Innovation who will be looking to innovate more ways to beat people with his fearsome early game strategies. Hey, they still have Vampire too, right? Go Vampire!
Champions: Last season was the Season of Champions. Seven of the eight active champions were in Code S, ready to showcase the power of a GSL champion. Looking at the Ro16 this season, the only two champions to make it through so far have been Polt and DongRaeGu.
FruitDealer is off playing League of Legends somewhere. Nestea fell all the way down to Code B and will try to qualify for Code A next week. MC has hit a slump, not qualifying out of the Up/Down matches and finishing out of money at MLG Dallas. Mvp wasn't able to get past the first round, losing to DRG and Creator. MMA is in Code A, finally released from Slayers, and trying to decide between friendship and money. jjakji is in Code B with the rest of his team, wondering if Mr. Chae will ask for his trophy back. Now Seed, our season three champion, who has been trying to keep the comparisons between him and jjakji as far away as possible, is now in the lowest part of Code A and one Bo3 away from being knocked down to Code B.
Elephants: The stampede has come...and it's been more of a circus than destruction. Soulkey, who was given a sponsored seed, is the only KeSPA player who has been able to qualify for the Ro16 so far, and that was in the closest way possible, getting out with a 4-3 record in a close final series victory against Liquid's Hero. Rain forfeited, Roro's hype train died before it even left his nydus canal station, Bbyong's play looked Code A level at best, and sOs, a player who went 6-0 in Code A, looked nowhere close Code S level for better parts of the night. Even going back as far as the Up/Down matches, Flash, Terminator, and Trap weren't able to make it out.
So does this mean KeSPA sucks and that they're all going to either switch to LoL or become the ESF player's dishwashers? No.
Does this mean that the KeSPA players just aren't ready yet, but in six months time that their amazing mechanics will power through and all the ESF guys will be out of a job? No.
What it means is that some KeSPA players like Rain, Flash, and many others will become very good at the game and probably become mainstays of Code S. Others will fail at the game, never become anything more than Code A/Code B players and never make it over the hump. Just like how you couldn't go to one extreme when the elephants were destroying WCS Korea, you can't jump to the other when they've looked terrible in the past two Code S seasons not counting Rain.
If the elephants are looking for a champion to put their hopes in, they have the former Bogus, Innovation playing tomorrow. With only Life, the GSL champion, rivaling his win rate on the Korean GM ladder, he might be able to replace Rain as the elephant of the season. If nothing else, he has shown so far that he has some of the scariest timing pushes and early game harassment that we've ever witnessed in SC2.
FXOLeenock, returns to the GSL after another successful endeavor in the MLG circuit. While this time he'll regret his unfortunate choke in the finals, he has to be happy that he got to show he was the second strongest player by far in the entire tournament, with convincing wins over players like Oz, Rain, and Bomber. Last time Leenock won an MLG in November, he went on to take second in GSL. This time he got second at MLG so he should be aiming for a GSL pin with his new revitalized strength.
Leenock’s game has evolved. He still has his old, aggressive repertoire of strats, and he's added some newer builsd as well. He can do the standard ling/infestor into broodlord push, mass infestors, 2 base roach nydus attacks or do the 2011 double-spire muta ling/bane styles perfectly. On top of that, he's mastered the usage of abusive broodlord/queen/infestor 3-base builds. With plays that runs the entire spectrum of Zerg, the other players will have a hard time preparing for him as he can easily switch from one style to the next with no hiccups. With 2 terrans and 1 protoss in his group, it’s hard to imagine a world where Leenock doesn’t advance out of this group.
The underdogs
Having said that, all of the other players are extremely skilled and any one of them can give Leenock a run for his money. First up is Leenock’s first opponent, STX_Innovation, (former known as Bogus), should not be underestimated. Innovation made his way through Code S the hard way by going through Code B, then Code A, and now here he is in Code S. His run in Code A was very strong as he took out the King Yugioh, followed it up with the inconsistent Bomber, and finished his run with he-who-failed-a-2rax Happy. Bogus looked good in the two match-ups he had to play, showing good decision making in the mid and late game. While Bogus beat a good ZvT player in Yugioh, it’ll take exceptional TvZ play to beat Leenock in his initial match.
The other two players in this group are MVP.KeeN and ST_Squirtle. In the constant rises and falls that are Keen’s career, I feel that Keen on an upswing right now. He smashed through his Up & Down group, only dropping 1 game to Trap while beating extremely solid players in Shine, Parting, and Byun. He was chosen as MVP’s Ace against Startale and nearly made a comeback beating Life, and nearly beating Curious. His TvT is still solid and aggressive. His TvZ is incredible as he is very multi-task intensive and can use both bio and mech with ease. His TvP is strong and he likes to mix up strong aggressive bitbybit attacks (a mark of a true champion). He even has a new player-coach in Killer who seems to have given him some stability in the mental game.
Even so, he has the completely unfortunate first opponent in Squirtle. Last time they faced off, Squirtle squashed him in the first game with the power of a thousand hydro pumps. Keen was only able to get past that series last time by abusing Squirtle’s natural weakness to 11/11 rax. However, Squirtle has recently proven he can take on 11/11 rax in his Code A matches against Hack, and Keen will have to be wary about pulling out that strategy again, lest it not be very effective.
Not all hope is lost for Keen however. Squirtle seems to have caught onto some of that Curious fever as for the last 2 seasons he couldn’t crack his way past the ro16. His international tournaments didn’t instill us with any with any confidence in him either, as he fell to SortOf in the Ro16 in ESWC. While Keen can’t depend on his 11/11 to get past Squirtle this time, there are still a plethora of TvP all-ins he can use to squeak past Squirtle as well.
Winners Match and Beyond
If things go as expected, Leenock should take out Bogus and Squirtle should take out Keen. This leaves a lop-sided match in the winners between Leenock and Squirtle. While Squirtle was off in France losing to Sortof, Leenock was in America beating down Rain, San, and Oz with decisive wins. Squirtle’s only hope is to bet it all on his soul and try to ride the 'wonwonwon' immortal-sentry all-in to victory over Leenock.
The Losers match could be an extremely interesting TvT match between Bogus and Keen. This should be a 50/50 toss up. Both have some strong macro TvT games as well as strong 1 base TvT all-ins. Keen played a great game again Byun in marine-tank wars. Bogus played a great TvT against Bomber in a mech vs mech game. So this could range from anywhere between extremely quick to extraordinarily long. I’m giving the slight edge to Bogus as his play is a little more clean and he hasn’t shown Keen’s inconsistency (he hasn't had the time).
The overall situation is this. Leenock fears no one in this group, but among the three players, Keen has the best chance to beat him. Squirtle is afraid of Leenock, but he should easily beat both Terran players. If Squirtle beats Leenock with a Soul-immortal all-in, Terran chances of making it our are slim to nil. Squirtle would like to beat Leenock in the winners match, but even if he falls, he should still make it out with no problem. Bogus has a decent underdog chance against anyone in this group, but can only reliably play against Keen evenly. Keen’s best shot is to play Squirtle straight up in the first round and then try to get to the final round and cheese him out to get to ro16.
This season is a complete slaughter, so I expect Keen and Squirtle to fall down to Code A, to make this to best/worst(depends who you like) season of Code A so far.
Squirtle will make it through. (so will Vampire tomorrow)
Squirtle, Parting, Creator and Vampire will be known as the Protoss Elite 4. With Squirtle dropping out in Ro16, Vampire making it to the quarterfinals, Creator will suffer a loss in the semis and Parting will be this Season's runner up. All of them will loose to the eventual winner and he will be crowned as the very best, like no one ever was, because to catch them was his real quest and to train them was his cause.
I think the structure of GSL makes it difficult to obtain code S status. I think as more KeSPA players gain access to code S either through qualifying or seeds, the makeup of GSL will tend closer to 50/50 ESF/KeSPA.
On November 07 2012 08:52 ES.Genie wrote: This season is a complete slaughter, so I expect Keen and Squirtle to fall down to Code A, to make this to best/worst(depends who you like) season of Code A so far.
So you expect Squirtle who went 3-4 against MvP in the Code-S finals to get knocked down before a newcomer to SC2 like Bogus? Interesting.
Leenock+Squirtle should make short work of this group, but Keen has been known to upset so you never know with him.
So does this mean KeSPA sucks and that they're all going to either switch to LoL or become the ESF player's dishwashers? No.
Does this mean that the KeSPA players just aren't ready yet, but in six months time that their amazing mechanics will power through and all the ESF guys will be out of a job? No.
What it means is that some KeSPA players like Rain, Flash, and many others will become very good at the game and probably become mainstays of Code S. Others will fail at the game, never become anything more than Code A/Code B players and never make it over the hump. Just like how you couldn't go to one extreme when the elephants were destroying WCS Korea, you can't jump to the other when they've looked terrible in the past two Code S seasons not counting Rain.
Does this mean I can stop cheering against KeSPA players now? I mean, I like some of them, but the way that that certain final edit kept on getting bumped left me with a sour taste in my mouth, and a strong fear of what would happen to the forums if they actually did well. The only thing worse than the elephants actually rolling as well as predicted would be the quadrillion and one unbelievably obnoxious threads from the diehardest BW diehards jumping the gun so hard they headbutt the bullet. Seeing Flash doing so well in MLG would've been nice if I hadn't had to deal with all that worrying. As it stands, though, I'm kinda relieved he didn't win.
I have no faith in Bogus, he might be very good, but he also lost a lot of games in proleague. I don't think he has the chops to beat Leenock or Keen. Squirtle maybe, since he's not playing well lately.
On November 07 2012 08:52 ES.Genie wrote: This season is a complete slaughter, so I expect Keen and Squirtle to fall down to Code A, to make this to best/worst(depends who you like) season of Code A so far.
So you expect Squirtle who went 3-4 against MvP in the Code-S finals to get knocked down before a newcomer to SC2 like Bogus? Interesting.
Leenock+Squirtle should make short work of this group, but Keen has been known to upset so you never know with him.
Leenock and Keen will probably advance, and Aiur's place in the sun will be as brief, as that of the one who said the said words. Really hoping for Squirtle and Keen to advance. Doubt it will happen though especially considering the match order.
Squirtle Will get throught, because he's a startale player, and startale players get throught the round of 32 this season. 3/3 so far, and with life being the 5th all startale players Will get throught
On November 07 2012 08:52 ES.Genie wrote: This season is a complete slaughter, so I expect Keen and Squirtle to fall down to Code A, to make this to best/worst(depends who you like) season of Code A so far.
So you expect Squirtle who went 3-4 against MvP in the Code-S finals to get knocked down before a newcomer to SC2 like Bogus? Interesting.
Leenock+Squirtle should make short work of this group, but Keen has been known to upset so you never know with him.
Squirtle has not been playing well at all lately, I do not expect him to advance.
Well, I don't think Leenock vs. Squirtle is lopsided, but I do give the advantage to Leenock. Squirtle has been on a definite downtrend since his finals run, but I still think he makes it out 2nd in the group. (His vT is still tops ELO iirc)
Considering how strong Zerg late game is why would anyone be surprised. When was the last time a Zerg lost a match where he transitioned into hive safely
On November 07 2012 10:08 Glenn313 wrote: I may switch races due to Zerg being so popular now. It's bound to get even more popular in HOTS.
Talk about wish washy... you aren't going to try zerg you are just going to switch. W/e people like you will switch back at the first sign of terran control in early HOTS or something.
So does this mean KeSPA sucks and that they're all going to either switch to LoL or become the ESF player's dishwashers? No.
Does this mean that the KeSPA players just aren't ready yet, but in six months time that their amazing mechanics will power through and all the ESF guys will be out of a job? No.
What it means is that some KeSPA players like Rain, Flash, and many others will become very good at the game and probably become mainstays of Code S. Others will fail at the game, never become anything more than Code A/Code B players and never make it over the hump. Just like how you couldn't go to one extreme when the elephants were destroying WCS Korea, you can't jump to the other when they've looked terrible in the past two Code S seasons not counting Rain.
Does this mean I can stop cheering against KeSPA players now? I mean, I like some of them, but the way that that certain final edit kept on getting bumped left me with a sour taste in my mouth, and a strong fear of what would happen to the forums if they actually did well. The only thing worse than the elephants actually rolling as well as predicted would be the quadrillion and one unbelievably obnoxious threads from the diehardest BW diehards jumping the gun so hard they headbutt the bullet. Seeing Flash doing so well in MLG would've been nice if I hadn't had to deal with all that worrying. As it stands, though, I'm kinda relieved he didn't win.
Well, at least we don't see 2 full pages of elephant pictures nowadays
but MKP's TvZ, when at it's best, is the best we've ever seen along with MMA in his prime. In this new world of Zerg, the Terran race might have to pray that their king of marines finds the magic that he once had in the match-up against the swarm.
Whaaaaaaaat MKP's TvZ is... maybe a bit above average? Certainly not the best right now, and even more certainly not near MMA's in his prime.
but MKP's TvZ, when at it's best, is the best we've ever seen along with MMA in his prime. In this new world of Zerg, the Terran race might have to pray that their king of marines finds the magic that he once had in the match-up against the swarm.
Whaaaaaaaat MKP's TvZ is... maybe a bit above average? Certainly not the best right now, and even more certainly not near MMA's in his prime.
He meant MKP's TvZ peak, (when he was beating DRG and winning MLG). It certainly was worldly.
I also think Leenock and Squirtle will advance, but I'm hoping for Leenock and Keen. I still love that kid and want him to find more success (and do more wicked-awesome ceremonies).
On November 07 2012 13:45 Aserrin wrote: "In the constant rises and falls that are Keen’s career, I feel that Keen on an upswing right now."
Keen confirmed for 0-4
Oh god my sides. I hope Leenock advances! Funny Leenock story, my friend went to an autograph session at MLG Anaheim with Leenock and MKP. and had two sign boards. He asked MKP to take up an entire board since he's his favorite player and asked Leenock to sign small so he could fit all the other pros on there. Leenock proceeds to sign the entire damn thing and now my friend curses Leenock for all eternity. So go Leenock :D
It's not surprising tha Zerg is this Dominant, They where in Europe the whole time, and everybody whas crying. Finally it has reached Korea too. Hopefully Blizzard now realise that they need to nerf the BL/Infestor Lategame Army! This Composition is just nearly unbeatable, especially for Protoss, thats probably the reason why there are just two of them in the Round of 16.
I'm wondering if there is less the fact that Z is a bit better now and more that we lack really strong terran players. I mean Mvp, MMA and MKP has been the best terrans for most of sc2, and with MMA in a slayers funk, mvp struggling with health and mkp generally self-destructing more than losing there is not really any great ones left. The next generation isnt really as great as the last one.
Then again it might be that the new generation t is pretty good but the new generation z is simply better..
On November 07 2012 21:41 ToKoreaWithLove wrote: I'm wondering if there is less the fact that Z is a bit better now and more that we lack really strong terran players. I mean Mvp, MMA and MKP has been the best terrans for most of sc2, and with MMA in a slayers funk, mvp struggling with health and mkp generally self-destructing more than losing there is not really any great ones left. The next generation isnt really as great as the last one.
Then again it might be that the new generation t is pretty good but the new generation z is simply better..
I am not one to say one race is OP or IMBA over the other because if i cant beat a race then i do my best to come up with builds that can beat the other. I will say it is getting really hard to defeat zerg because they can macro so easy/units are cheap/ can build 39283492 zerglings in seconds....... that you need to hit a near perfect timing attack or you will be so far behind. I cant stand Zerg which is why as a Protoss player i do everything i can to come up with ways to kill them.
One of the only ways i have found to succesfully defeat a Zerg player is to deny scouting by the overlords as much as possible, which is extremely hard but if you can do it then you have a slight advantage to do a hard colossus timing push if they don't see your robo, or whatever build you do.
One of the builds i have come up with is a 3 base colossus push. i let zerg thing im doing a 2 base timing push by setting up a proxy pylon defended but just a small amount of units while i do that i get a quick third retreat back to base get two robo's cut probes and continue to produce colossus till i have about 4 then i push and if they dont have air its pretty much gg.. ill load replay later today
On November 07 2012 18:14 Akaann wrote: It's not surprising tha Zerg is this Dominant, They where in Europe the whole time, and everybody whas crying. Finally it has reached Korea too. Hopefully Blizzard now realise that they need to nerf the BL/Infestor Lategame Army! This Composition is just nearly unbeatable, especially for Protoss, thats probably the reason why there are just two of them in the Round of 16.
But how? Nerf infestors even more? I think Zerg needs the Infestors how they are otherwise Zerg is gooing to be UP. MMM will become too strong. The only thing i can think of is nervig the Blords itself. Maybe make them weaker but more mobile is a way..
On November 07 2012 18:14 Akaann wrote: It's not surprising tha Zerg is this Dominant, They where in Europe the whole time, and everybody whas crying. Finally it has reached Korea too. Hopefully Blizzard now realise that they need to nerf the BL/Infestor Lategame Army! This Composition is just nearly unbeatable, especially for Protoss, thats probably the reason why there are just two of them in the Round of 16.
But how? Nerf infestors even more? I think Zerg needs the Infestors how they are otherwise Zerg is gooing to be UP. MMM will become too strong. The only thing i can think of is nervig the Blords itself. Maybe make them weaker but more mobile is a way..
I think the problem may be BLs' cost. The high number of BLs right now leads to a high number of broodlings which restricts your army's movement and creates a proportionally impassable wall of free units. If BLs were more expensive but did a bit more damage per shot, they might work out better, as the "broodling advantage" would be smaller.
On November 07 2012 18:14 Akaann wrote: It's not surprising tha Zerg is this Dominant, They where in Europe the whole time, and everybody whas crying. Finally it has reached Korea too. Hopefully Blizzard now realise that they need to nerf the BL/Infestor Lategame Army! This Composition is just nearly unbeatable, especially for Protoss, thats probably the reason why there are just two of them in the Round of 16.
But how? Nerf infestors even more? I think Zerg needs the Infestors how they are otherwise Zerg is gooing to be UP. MMM will become too strong. The only thing i can think of is nervig the Blords itself. Maybe make them weaker but more mobile is a way..
I think the problem may be BLs' cost. The high number of BLs right now leads to a high number of broodlings which restricts your army's movement and creates a proportionally impassable wall of free units. If BLs were more expensive but did a bit more damage per shot, they might work out better, as the "broodling advantage" would be smaller.
On November 07 2012 13:45 Aserrin wrote: "In the constant rises and falls that are Keen’s career, I feel that Keen on an upswing right now."
Keen confirmed for 0-4
Oh god my sides. I hope Leenock advances! Funny Leenock story, my friend went to an autograph session at MLG Anaheim with Leenock and MKP. and had two sign boards. He asked MKP to take up an entire board since he's his favorite player and asked Leenock to sign small so he could fit all the other pros on there. Leenock proceeds to sign the entire damn thing and now my friend curses Leenock for all eternity. So go Leenock :D
Great story. Leenock is such a boss. My 2nd favorite player since he met Clide.
On November 07 2012 18:14 Akaann wrote: It's not surprising tha Zerg is this Dominant, They where in Europe the whole time, and everybody whas crying. Finally it has reached Korea too. Hopefully Blizzard now realise that they need to nerf the BL/Infestor Lategame Army! This Composition is just nearly unbeatable, especially for Protoss, thats probably the reason why there are just two of them in the Round of 16.
But how? Nerf infestors even more? I think Zerg needs the Infestors how they are otherwise Zerg is gooing to be UP. MMM will become too strong. The only thing i can think of is nervig the Blords itself. Maybe make them weaker but more mobile is a way..
I tend to disagree. We saw Leenock pull off really great non Infestor play. I'm nowhere deep enough in the metagame to say that it wasn't because his enemies expected infestors but it definitely is possible. Before the infestor buff, ling/bling/muta was far from dead in ZvT The new maps are also better than the ones we had back then.
I think the real problem lies within PvZ and P's ability to abuse the short range t1 with ff. Which isn't really solved but rather compensated by inf/BL vs MS in the very lategame.
Its so sad to watch Code S and see how SC is broken as a balanced game. Zerg seems so overpowered with the Brood Lord Infestor tech. When you add in spine crawlers vs protoss and there is no answer with toss to get air. In MLG they had a game with maxed zerg vs maxed toss. Toss was maxed on carrier void ray, and mother ship. They got OWNED by infestor and corruptor and brood lord. It wasn't even close.
It's boring. Infestor fungal/infested terran needs to cost more energy or SOMETHING to balance this out. Toss needs a useful air unit like Corsairs in BW. At least Terran with vikings has a chance in hell to stop them; but right now Zerg has too much stuff. Think about the Protoss HOTS units. The stupid oracle basically is getting spells that Zerg Overseer already has. Thanks a lot blizzard - fix your garbage! Anyone shocked that GSL was won by zerg, MLG was a ZvZ FINALS and this years GSL is already shaping up to be a Zerg fest.
On November 08 2012 03:32 mhael wrote: Its so sad to watch Code S and see how SC is broken as a balanced game. Zerg seems so overpowered with the Brood Lord Infestor tech. When you add in spine crawlers vs protoss and there is no answer with toss to get air. In MLG they had a game with maxed zerg vs maxed toss. Toss was maxed on carrier void ray, and mother ship. They got OWNED by infestor and corruptor and brood lord. It wasn't even close.
It's boring. Infestor fungal/infested terran needs to cost more energy or SOMETHING to balance this out. Toss needs a useful air unit like Corsairs in BW. At least Terran with vikings has a chance in hell to stop them; but right now Zerg has too much stuff. Think about the Protoss HOTS units. The stupid oracle basically is getting spells that Zerg Overseer already has. Thanks a lot blizzard - fix your garbage! Anyone shocked that GSL was won by zerg, MLG was a ZvZ FINALS and this years GSL is already shaping up to be a Zerg fest.
Blizzard needs to look at this post. Well done. totally agree 100%
On November 08 2012 03:32 mhael wrote: Its so sad to watch Code S and see how SC is broken as a balanced game. Zerg seems so overpowered with the Brood Lord Infestor tech. When you add in spine crawlers vs protoss and there is no answer with toss to get air. In MLG they had a game with maxed zerg vs maxed toss. Toss was maxed on carrier void ray, and mother ship. They got OWNED by infestor and corruptor and brood lord. It wasn't even close.
It's boring. Infestor fungal/infested terran needs to cost more energy or SOMETHING to balance this out. Toss needs a useful air unit like Corsairs in BW. At least Terran with vikings has a chance in hell to stop them; but right now Zerg has too much stuff. Think about the Protoss HOTS units. The stupid oracle basically is getting spells that Zerg Overseer already has. Thanks a lot blizzard - fix your garbage! Anyone shocked that GSL was won by zerg, MLG was a ZvZ FINALS and this years GSL is already shaping up to be a Zerg fest.
And where is WCS Asia and it's incredible amount of Protoss on top ? It's true that very late Protoss vs Zerg is problematic though. It's not fundamentally imbalanced, but it's too volatile (you play on your few vortexes, if you miss it's loose, if you hit it's win).
You say that Zerg ultra-late is imbalanced, but the few zergs really performing better than everything are Life and Leenock, two extremely aggressive Zergs. They win either in early/mid game, or with a late game powered by an early lead due to successful aggression in early/mid, and sometime with better control in late game (mostly Leenock). Most macro heavy zergs trying to win only on their lategame aren't that successful at the moment.
Maybe infestors are a problem, but I don't think their very late is the problem. Maybe a passaging lens nerf ? It solved the problem with HT when Blizzard was struggling a lot to balance them.
On November 08 2012 03:32 mhael wrote: Its so sad to watch Code S and see how SC is broken as a balanced game. Zerg seems so overpowered with the Brood Lord Infestor tech. When you add in spine crawlers vs protoss and there is no answer with toss to get air. In MLG they had a game with maxed zerg vs maxed toss. Toss was maxed on carrier void ray, and mother ship. They got OWNED by infestor and corruptor and brood lord. It wasn't even close.
It's boring. Infestor fungal/infested terran needs to cost more energy or SOMETHING to balance this out. Toss needs a useful air unit like Corsairs in BW. At least Terran with vikings has a chance in hell to stop them; but right now Zerg has too much stuff. Think about the Protoss HOTS units. The stupid oracle basically is getting spells that Zerg Overseer already has. Thanks a lot blizzard - fix your garbage! Anyone shocked that GSL was won by zerg, MLG was a ZvZ FINALS and this years GSL is already shaping up to be a Zerg fest.
And where is WCS Asia and it's incredible amount of Protoss on top ? It's true that very late Protoss vs Zerg is problematic though. It's not fundamentally imbalanced, but it's too volatile (you play on your few vortexes, if you miss it's loose, if you hit it's win).
You say that Zerg ultra-late is imbalanced, but the few zergs really performing better than everything are Life and Leenock, two extremely aggressive Zergs. They win either in early/mid game, or with a late game powered by an early lead due to successful aggression in early/mid, and sometime with better control in late game (mostly Leenock). Most macro heavy zergs trying to win only on their lategame aren't that successful at the moment.
Maybe infestors are a problem, but I don't think their very late is the problem. Maybe a passaging lens nerf ? It solved the problem with HT when Blizzard was struggling a lot to balance them.
And then there's the 50000 mid tier foreign zergs who are able to crush top level koreans. Do we see the same with protoss and zergs? Are foreign zergs simply superior to foreign terrans and protoss players? Were they born with the same gene that terran players claimed to have when siege tanks did 60 damage and roaches were 3 range?
I am interested in the broodling comment on the "wall" of free units. In BW guardians were powerful, but they couldn't wall off with their little acid spit ball thingy so you could get under them. That is another brutal thing that is hard to overcome. You have maxed out armies plus Zerg can throw out infested terrans and broodlings that do not count on supply; also in HOTS they get those ground things that spawn broodlings as well! I like the units - I think their just needs to be something to counter these things better with or make them more expensive.
I understand balancing the game is hard (which is also why BW was so special and SC is and I think will be special once they fix things.) especially with high tier players who's literal JOB is to exploit things in the game. I just turn a hairy stink eye to zerg right now because it seems they can make more mistakes, have map control, they have more spells, and have the best tier 3 units. They can win games with 1 or 2 units, whereas, terran and toss both need a block of units working together to win games ESPECIALLY in the end game.
All I know is that I am not enjoying GSL as much with this cookie cutter zerg play that is very powerful. Although I am very impressed with how stinking good Life is....
On November 07 2012 08:52 ES.Genie wrote: This season is a complete slaughter, so I expect Keen and Squirtle to fall down to Code A, to make this to best/worst(depends who you like) season of Code A so far.
So you expect Squirtle who went 3-4 against MvP in the Code-S finals to get knocked down before a newcomer to SC2 like Bogus? Interesting.
Leenock+Squirtle should make short work of this group, but Keen has been known to upset so you never know with him.
On November 08 2012 07:14 fireforce7 wrote: yay MarineKing! I really hope he gets farther into the finals again...zerg is starting to get too dominant lately...=/
I would love that also, but with the queen patch for zerg all of the terrans that were heavy dependant on harass (f.e. marineking, mma) have fallen off since the options to harass zerg are so limited now.
Ive always been a zerg player and there are times where I feel like its incredibly easy to play and win. Its not like I have stellar apm either, I sit at a constant 180apm and still dont feel like I do much besides hit the z key and occasionally bling infestor. Would be pretty funny if they all got eliminated before the Ro4 Anythings possible.
Leenock fighting! Him and life both looked great at mlg.
They should just make infested Terran cost much more energy or are a lot more weak! IMHO the problem is that Zerg can spanw a billion Infested Terran with a huge DPS in the fight.
Luckily on my Level I can win with a good ratio against Zerg thanks to the Immortal Sentry all in xD But watching SC is so entertaining, but lately it annoys me when I see how Zerg crushes through my favourit players and in the later stages of the tournaments there are just a few players who don't play Zerg.