Not sure how I feel about this. I like the warhound as a unit I guess, and the new battle hellion sounds like it might be good in a late game composition. As far as the widow mines go though, I'm not sure I like the concept. A mine that costs food, possibly gas and can even according to Browder you will be able to simply remove the unit the mine attaches to before it explodes. I don't know, it just doesn't seem like widow mines will be anywhere near as good as spider mines were in BW.

Zambrah

United States7393 Posts

June 09 2012 02:47 GMT

#347

To be honest, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the Tempest having TWENTY TWO possible range, that just seems... like... really? I guess I'd really need an in depth view of the Tempest, but it seems too long.

SoFool

Malaysia96 Posts

June 09 2012 02:48 GMT

#348

Didnt dustin said he didnt want sc2 to be like bw? I'm seeing too many bw resemblance here, except for protoss.

Also the swarm host still cant attack from a cliff effectively.

Canx

Singapore85 Posts

June 09 2012 02:49 GMT

#349

Watched the battle report, think they just opened up a lot of opportunities for Terran Mech, I like it. Have to learn a new game now though!

Dingobloo

Australia1903 Posts

June 09 2012 03:02 GMT

#350

On June 09 2012 11:48 SoFool wrote:
Didnt dustin said he didnt want sc2 to be like bw? I'm seeing too many bw resemblance here, except for protoss.

Also the swarm host still cant attack from a cliff effectively.

I think you're missing the point of his statement, his point was that it wasn't enough to just make broodwar AGAIN because broodwar does have issues and they needed room to introduce different units that solved those problems even if they introduce others.

Banelings are a good example, they liked how they integrate with the speed on creep, they liked that they were a "trade" style unit not an efficient unit, they liked that with burrow you can use them like mines and with drop you can use them as a carpet bomb, they also solve some of broodwar's ZvZ issues which amount to "get as much gas as possible without dying to lings" because they're an early gas unit that trades well vs large numbers of light units.

So they made the tough decision to remove the lurker because they overlap, lurkers + banelings would be a really difficult combination to handle it's just a ton of splash damage and just as a general rule it muddies the design to have 2 units do that very similar things. But they obviously still like the fact that the lurker lets you pressure a wall without endangering your units.

So they introduce the swarm host. The swarm host isn't a new concept it's similar to the lurker, but it's different in that it doesn't just add more splash damage to the field and it doesn't get "tricked" if you throw only a single unit at it, it also doesn't gain much effectiveness from unit hold position mico, which while cool in broodwar, has had it's role taken by baneling land mines.

So it's not that they're against adding things they found good about broodwar, it's that their first instinct shouldn't just be "make it more like broodwar because that was a good game, therefore if it's exactly broodwar it's a good game." the solution space is different and needs to be filled by different units because the problems are different.

foxmulder_ms

United States140 Posts

June 09 2012 03:15 GMT

#351

I am sorry but almost all of the changes they made on protoss looks like forced, awkward stuff. Thumbs down here.

RavenLoud

Canada1100 Posts

June 09 2012 03:16 GMT

#352

Other than the Tempest, everything else seems alright.

SAVE THE CARRIER GUYS.

EDIT: Is it me or is like half of those unit are made to make siege tanks useless.

Sandstorm9

41 Posts

June 09 2012 03:27 GMT

#353

You guys are overreacting so much. The Tempest has horrible DPS and the range upgrade costs 200/200 i think. I'd rather have more DPS than 22 range. With this shitty DPS, it might as well be on the other end of the map. Who cares?

I think it's the Viper that's the most dangerous unit. It completely nullifies tanks, colossi and bio forces. What, you paid 300/200 for a colossus, 200/200 for the support bay and 200/200 for the thermal lance? Well i'll kill it before it gets one shot off.

I'd rather face 20 corruptors because at least the colossus will shoot once before dying and the zerg will have paid more money and supply for those corruptors. I just hate units and abilities that instantly nullify the other races' big advantage so that their army dies without paying for itself even a bit.

I realise the Viper will cost a lot, but come on, it wont be much more than getting a few corruptors, and as i said, you arent countering the Colossi, you're instantly killing them. Same for tanks.

Sabu113

United States11099 Posts

June 09 2012 03:37 GMT

#354

DPS is the wrong metric to focus on. It could have shit DPS but a great damage hit and so the toss army can start really hurting the viper, ultra or broodlord packs long before any engagement or in areas where collosi can mop up the rest.

Stargate is still vital for toss late game v Z. Tempests will never be made in PvT though since there really arent that many units worth being sniped or that can be sniped.

dnld12

United States324 Posts

June 09 2012 03:41 GMT

#355

As a Protoss player i find that The tempest has the potential to be EXTREMELY overpowered. Imagine 3 or 4 of those one shotting everything. With voidrays and pheonix to cover. It would be unstoppable.

Sandstorm9

41 Posts

June 09 2012 03:46 GMT

#356

I personally wish the Void Ray became more useful. What does it mean that it's only being used early in PvZ when Zerg have very little anti air? That it's crap. It should be the go to unit to deal with BroodLords but mass corruptors, mutas, or fungal melt them. I remember hearing that Blizzard considered making Fungal a ground only ability but that would ruin ZvZ and the whole anti-muta gameplay.

Anyway, with the Vortex gone for air units, it seems like the only option is now the Tempest. Keep it away (in your base lol) and shoot them down. Hope it works.

Hopefully the re-emergence of Mech in HotS will mean that we can use Void Rays against it and thus Voids wont be completely useless.

Sandstorm9

41 Posts

June 09 2012 03:48 GMT

#357

On June 09 2012 12:41 dnld12 wrote:
As a Protoss player i find that The tempest has the potential to be EXTREMELY overpowered. Imagine 3 or 4 of those one shotting everything. With voidrays and pheonix to cover. It would be unstoppable.

True, but that's easily fixed with a damage nerf, increase in price, building time nerf, etc.

eviltomahawk

United States11135 Posts

June 09 2012 03:49 GMT

#358

This image:

+ Show Spoiler +

...completely baffles me XD

Two Dark Shrines powered by Warp Prisms? Some troll stuff right there haha.

Birdfood

United States33 Posts

June 09 2012 03:54 GMT

#359

Yep, Blizz is retarded...

RavenLoud

Canada1100 Posts

June 09 2012 04:04 GMT

#360

Could be a campaign map or something.

Anyway, isn't the warhound supposed to counter mutas? What's the point of giving it anti-ground anti-armor 1a missiles?