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MVTaylor
United Kingdom2893 Posts
On February 09 2012 05:19 tree.hugger wrote: Lets bet on this. I think Illusion will win a major tournament before DarKFoRcE does, and you seem to disagree. Name your terms. What an utterly ridiculous comment given the massive number of variables involved, but to humour you...$20? I'm only a student so take it or leave it, it's an amazingly fantastic bet for you. | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On February 09 2012 05:55 OrbitalPlane wrote: You're totally mincing words. DarKFoRcE's results aren't 'stellar', that's a word I'd describe for people who've won things. Above average, is a phrase I'd use to describe players like DarKFoRcE who have a few good finishes, but have never really threatened to win a tournament. I don't count a Bo1 defeat of MKP as better than a Bo3 defeat of aLive. You're right, GeForce was a good tournament for him, but he never beat anyone the calibre of aLive in that event, and online events six months ago with the KR-AM server lag don't really mean much when we're talking about live events right now.i actually don't want to be too narrow-minded, the rest of the write up was pretty good but since you asked here are your answers: I already did on page 1, but here again special for you: lack of stellar major tournament results is not true and DarKFoRcE's best result yet was his defeat of aLive in the NASL Season 1 finals is arguably wrong too. he has put up quite decent good results in a lot of big tournaments just some examples: He beat several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on the GeForce tournament and placing 3rd did well at WCG, beating MKP and getting out of the group at both NASL, first placing as the highest foreigner, second one going to the playoffs Yet it's hard to acknowledge that it does achieve above-average results. This sounds very weird to me. what is average results? and what is above-average results? Sounds to me like not very extraordinary. On February 09 2012 05:55 OrbitalPlane wrote: I read your post on Page 1, but it was 100% opinion and no facts to back it up. In this post, I explained exactly why I think DarKFoRcE's NASL Bo3 win over aLive was his best result yet, you're entitled to disagree, of course, but you have never proved anything to be wrong or poorly researched. I can't go over the entire life story of every player, I pick and choose the results that I think are most important. Second, since when did a positive statement not count as something positive? And third, my prediction was what I wrote in the article, did you choose to ignore what was written at the end because you were mesmerized by the random numbers at the end? The numbers at the end are guesses about something that it's impossible to be precise for. I'd prefer you put more weight into the actual analysis.the only really positive thing i can find is that he is funny. yes i did, that's more a fact than a positive statement Your prediction was 0:3 so sorry that i don't buy that... i actually did, but it seems you did not read my post on page 1. On February 09 2012 05:55 OrbitalPlane wrote: I just don't think its the right place to criticize a player. I don't mind if you post it somewhere else but not in the presentation of a player. But that's just my opinion maybe i am the only one who is bothered by that. the prediction is fine fore me. even so a lot of people might disagree thats your good right to say so. (But if you make such a ballsy prediction you should not be surprised if other people have a different opinion. even so here were quite some unfair flames about it tbh) EDIT: Beastyqt Illusion showmatch? i would have to bet on beasty so. :D I have to be honest, it annoys me when people don't read anything and just look at the numbers and then say dumb things about it. You clearly read what I wrote, but other people don't. I recognize that you're a fan of DarKFoRcE, and that obviously you disagree with my assessment. That's just the way it is. But don't call me out for being factually incorrect, when I'm not being factually incorrect, and don't try to interpret obvious opinion as fact and then try to pin me to it. Please. On February 09 2012 06:26 mvtaylor wrote: If you don't actually believe in what you seemed to be arguing, than there's no point in making a bet on it. If you think I misunderstood what you mean by being annoyed by hype [and preferring an established player; i.e. DarKFoRcE is better than Illusion] than please state what you mean more clearly and we can discuss it. What an utterly ridiculous comment given the massive number of variables involved, but to humour you...$20? I'm only a student so take it or leave it, it's an amazingly fantastic bet for you. | ||
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Timmeh_Anderson
Germany37 Posts
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tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On February 09 2012 07:17 Timmeh_Anderson wrote: so i guess winning a BO5 against startale_ace in geforce cup is not noticable for you too? I can't do this anymore. T_T | ||
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Beastyqt
Serbia516 Posts
On February 09 2012 05:19 tree.hugger wrote: Lets bet on this. I think Illusion will win a major tournament before DarKFoRcE does, and you seem to disagree. Name your terms. Name a single thing in my short paragraph on DarKFoRcE that was incorrect, or evidence of poor research. Moreover, my paragraph was plenty positive about DF. Did you read the part where I said he was the second best known in the group, that he was the second most likely to advance? Or did you not read the paragraph at all? O_o I recognize that DF wins a lot of games, but I personally (I think it's abundantly clear that my opinion there was a personal value judgement) think his style is dull, and that he doesn't have the massive upside I see in players like Illusion. I tend to sometimes overvalue a player's potential at the cost of their current form, but I'll stand by my analysis here any day. Beasty top three foreign terran? Not sure what you mean with that last thing, I was saying hype from casters, predictions arent hyping someone  | ||
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MVTaylor
United Kingdom2893 Posts
On February 09 2012 07:10 tree.hugger wrote: If you don't actually believe in what you seemed to be arguing, than there's no point in making a bet on it. If you think I misunderstood what you mean by being annoyed by hype [and preferring an established player; i.e. DarKFoRcE is better than Illusion] than please state what you mean more clearly and we can discuss it. Right, I would argue that looking at their previous form that Darkforce is a better track player right now, illusion has had four notable achievements... Qualifying for this event with a 3-0 over demu in the process, Beating Lucky and Choya in online bo1s cross server, Coming "second" at ONOG and finishing 24th at MLG Providence. However this was his first ever LAN tournament not in the US and as I said he can't be comfortable about it if in the interview with Bitter he says he doesn't tell people what he's doing when he competes in LANs. You could see he was nervous, in the final game he played against KiLLeR he just let his marines stand there while banelings rolled in to them in the middle of the map off creep then forgot to gg, for someone who has shown great micro and marine splitting that sort of shows he wasn't 100%. Darkforce on the other hand doesn't have these nerve issues, he played as well as he usually does at LANs and that's pretty okay considering he can beat MKP in Korea, get to the ro8 at NASL1 etc. Now, illusion does have more POTENTIAL than darkforce. He's far younger, hasn't even played Terran until season 2 of ladder etc but he doesn't have a track record or much lan experience, zero foreign lan experience before this. So, once he's got a bit more of that, overcome some nerves and such then I think he will be able to pull out better results than darkforce, but it takes a pretty special sort of person that can do that at their first foreign lan based off of four "achievements". Hype is good at getting players noticed and showing who are ones to look out for but you need to keep things in perspective for a 15 year old kid going to his first foreign event. In six months, darkforce will probably be in the same sort of place he is now but the future looks far brighter for illusion. | ||
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Elem
Sweden4717 Posts
On February 09 2012 07:17 Timmeh_Anderson wrote: It's not. so i guess winning a BO5 against startale_ace in geforce cup is not noticable for you too? | ||
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Kiwiandapple
Belgium240 Posts
On February 08 2012 15:18 devPLEASE wrote: When did Illusion leave oGs and join Vile? wrong illusion  | ||
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Kiwiandapple
Belgium240 Posts
On February 09 2012 03:45 Empire.Beastyqt wrote: I dont think Illusion deserves hate for people hyping him its not really his fault, casters in general try to hype new players after winning one bo3..too much in my opinion. Illusion is very good for 15 year old player, I have no doubt if he keeps playing that he will be top top player in 12-18 months, but people that hype him are doing more hurt than good (like in this thread people flaming him and calling him bad after so much hype because people expect too much from him). I watched his games today first time and he plays very risky in TvZ, not getting tank until 14minute and siege mode until 15min will get destroyed many times with just 2 base baneling bust allins or infestor plays. His micro and macro are good, but (no offence to him or his fans) he is not top player and he probably knows it since he's a smart guy. He isnt far away from it either, but like I said if he keeps practising he will slay some nerds very soon, he should work on his builds mostly since his understanding of the TvZ seems better than his builds in it. I know illusion for pretty much a year now - he used to play zerg in season 1/2 so his tvz always has been a strong part, because his micro is pretty darn good - he doesnt like tanks, he feels to immobile with them and prefers to not use them, or well he just doesn't make them early on. thats why he rather gets some helions and marines and micro's the hell out off it. he aswell has been baneling busted alot and practiced alot against it, he holds alot of baneling busts pretty well. unless he fails to read them, wich he hardly does because he is quite the aggressor. i do completely agree on you tho, he has alot of things to work on. but, he is working on it - and the hype around him is aswell something thats just happening. he is young, played good online in IPL, beated demuslim 3-0 to qualify for this IEM. enough reason to hype him. sadly he lost both his tvz's 2-1. but, funny enough if he managed to win those, and advance everybody would praise him - sadly enough thats how the world is. Just indeed, look for him in about 12 months. | ||
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Fatze
Germany1342 Posts
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