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IEM Sao Paulo, Day One - Victory Road - Page 5

Forum Index > News
109 CommentsPost a Reply
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DailYLeet
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany827 Posts
February 08 2012 14:20 GMT
#81
and bad prediction is wrong after first game :D
"King Goody spoke - you have to treat his words like gold , he is the wisest man , who ever crossed the EU server" - Cloud
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
February 08 2012 14:37 GMT
#82
On February 08 2012 16:54 JustPassingBy wrote:
Dunno, I think Illusion is kind of overhyped these days. If you look at his past results, he only has a meager bronze medal in which he went through: destiny and incontrol as most notable players...
Anyways, should Illusion not finish second in the group, I can't promise I won't have a smug smile on my face.


my lips are starting to tickle!
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 16:13:34
February 08 2012 16:09 GMT
#83
On February 08 2012 12:52 Corsica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:
Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcE
I guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too. But i guess every above average diamond player can do that...

Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene.

I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players...




I got used to NA writers to forget about EU players and be biased as fuck about such players as Illusion who havent been to any not NA Lans... thats something you have to get used to living here at TL...

On topic: Never underestimate DarkForce...people call him DarkHorse for a reason...When he is on top of his game he can kill Koreans...

Pred: Supernova 3-0
Darkforce 2-1
Illusion 1-2
Killer 0-3
You've clearly never read anything I've ever written then, or you'd know how highly I rate Europeans.
On February 08 2012 14:45 mvtaylor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 10:41 VirgilSC2 wrote:
On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:
Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcE
I guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too.

Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene.

I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players...


Dreamhack and Assembly were both in the Eastern Hemisphere

[image loading]



This is BEYOND nit picking. Europe and America are in the Western Hemisphere without doubt. Unless the Cold War of East against West had some severe tectonic movement to agree with the dictionary definition...
It's not beyond nitpicking, it's precisely what I said, and precisely what I meant.

On February 08 2012 23:20 DailYLeet wrote:
and bad prediction is wrong after first game :D

Sometimes you're right and sometimes you're wrong. DarKFoRcE has a turtly playstyle, which I think is boring, and hope gets picked apart more often as faster and more aggressive players come around. Winning a series 2-1 against Illusion doesn't change much. Notice that I said he's the second favorite to advance from the group. In the for funsies number prediction, I thought he might go 0-3 (3-6). Maybe he'll go 1-2 instead, or maybe he'll go 2-1. But all of the Germans in this thread should probably chill out about it.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
Finrod1
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany3997 Posts
February 08 2012 16:19 GMT
#84
Hey tree. im perfectly fine with your analysis and love those writeups. Dont get annoyed by the few haters. thanks as always for the writing!
jumbotroN
Profile Joined April 2010
Peru229 Posts
February 08 2012 16:36 GMT
#85
Cheering for Killer and Fenix.
StarGalaxy
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany744 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 16:39:10
February 08 2012 16:37 GMT
#86
Well i was not complaining about the prediction,(even so i don't agree with it). Everyone can has his own opinion about that and it's fine to discuss it, too. And the predictions are predictions so they obviously don't always have to come true. no problem with that...

What was not appropriate imho is to present a player as boring and with a poorly researched introduction. I just don't like the picture that is drawn by that. A lot of people who don't know darkforce as well as the european scene might get a completely wrong picture of him.
If there are several writers anyways, why not let find a writer for the notes who can actually find a positive word of the player?
Cj hero | Zest
DeaDoXFighting
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada115 Posts
February 08 2012 16:46 GMT
#87
Sounds exciting can´t wait to see how MYM.XLorD will perform!!
Go Liquid Hero !!!!!
InfusedTT.DaZe
Profile Joined August 2010
Romania693 Posts
February 08 2012 16:52 GMT
#88
Hi, wanted to say that the tlpd for ilusion is wrong, that is the illusion from ogs!
gogo europe!
"Echoes of past events nudge the tiller on my present course, I await its reflection in the future"
Timmeh_Anderson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany37 Posts
February 08 2012 17:13 GMT
#89
wow illusion such a good player.... NOT

User was warned for this post
MVTaylor
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2893 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 18:12:17
February 08 2012 17:14 GMT
#90
illusion is the first player eliminated from IEM Sao Paulo while darkforce gets through 2-1. Boom, pretty happy given my earlier post in the thread.

I think that's why people, and not just germans, get a bit annoyed, the amount of hype attached to players based on what is effectively one week of decent results in online matches.
@followMVT
Timmeh_Anderson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany37 Posts
February 08 2012 18:15 GMT
#91
DF boom, headshot =)
TRAP[yoo]
Profile Joined December 2009
Hungary6026 Posts
February 08 2012 18:26 GMT
#92
nice darkforce! now its time for xlord to do the same
FTD
Thombur
Profile Joined January 2012
95 Posts
February 08 2012 18:31 GMT
#93
On February 09 2012 02:14 mvtaylor wrote:
illusion is the first player eliminated from IEM Sao Paulo while darkforce gets through 2-1. Boom, pretty happy given my earlier post in the thread.

I think that's why people, and not just germans, get a bit annoyed, the amount of hype attached to players based on what is effectively one week of decent results in online matches.

I think a lot of the hype around Illusion is based upon the fact that his playstyle is incredibly fun to watch. I love it at least. Add in that he is pretty good at such a young age and I think he will become a truely great player even if he doesn't have the experience it would require to win LAN events yet.
Corsica
Profile Joined February 2011
Ukraine1854 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 18:42:23
February 08 2012 18:42 GMT
#94
lol bias of writers totally wrong, expect supernova... which only toddler would fail to predict.
Beastyqt
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Serbia516 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 18:45:47
February 08 2012 18:45 GMT
#95
I dont think Illusion deserves hate for people hyping him its not really his fault, casters in general try to hype new players after winning one bo3..too much in my opinion.

Illusion is very good for 15 year old player, I have no doubt if he keeps playing that he will be top top player in 12-18 months, but people that hype him are doing more hurt than good (like in this thread people flaming him and calling him bad after so much hype because people expect too much from him).

I watched his games today first time and he plays very risky in TvZ, not getting tank until 14minute and siege mode until 15min will get destroyed many times with just 2 base baneling bust allins or infestor plays. His micro and macro are good, but (no offence to him or his fans) he is not top player and he probably knows it since he's a smart guy. He isnt far away from it either, but like I said if he keeps practising he will slay some nerds very soon, he should work on his builds mostly since his understanding of the TvZ seems better than his builds in it.
Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/Beastyqt YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/beastyqtsc2
MVTaylor
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2893 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 19:00:55
February 08 2012 18:58 GMT
#96
On February 09 2012 03:45 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
I dont think Illusion deserves hate for people hyping him its not really his fault, casters in general try to hype new players after winning one bo3..too much in my opinion.

Illusion is very good for 15 year old player, I have no doubt if he keeps playing that he will be top top player in 12-18 months, but people that hype him are doing more hurt than good (like in this thread people flaming him and calling him bad after so much hype because people expect too much from him).

I watched his games today first time and he plays very risky in TvZ, not getting tank until 14minute and siege mode until 15min will get destroyed many times with just 2 base baneling bust allins or infestor plays. His micro and macro are good, but (no offence to him or his fans) he is not top player and he probably knows it since he's a smart guy. He isnt far away from it either, but like I said if he keeps practising he will slay some nerds very soon, he should work on his builds mostly since his understanding of the TvZ seems better than his builds in it.


Oh exactly, I don't think anyone here hates illusion, he does what he has to do and plays as best he can in his own style. I think people dislike the amount of hype that gets put on certain players who have only a handful of games on which to back it up, trimaster, goswser, gatored etc. I'm sure we'll see more from him in the future once he has more lan experience and sc2 experience in general while he isn't trying to juggle school and sc2.
@followMVT
Beastyqt
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Serbia516 Posts
February 08 2012 19:19 GMT
#97
On February 09 2012 03:58 mvtaylor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 03:45 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
I dont think Illusion deserves hate for people hyping him its not really his fault, casters in general try to hype new players after winning one bo3..too much in my opinion.

Illusion is very good for 15 year old player, I have no doubt if he keeps playing that he will be top top player in 12-18 months, but people that hype him are doing more hurt than good (like in this thread people flaming him and calling him bad after so much hype because people expect too much from him).

I watched his games today first time and he plays very risky in TvZ, not getting tank until 14minute and siege mode until 15min will get destroyed many times with just 2 base baneling bust allins or infestor plays. His micro and macro are good, but (no offence to him or his fans) he is not top player and he probably knows it since he's a smart guy. He isnt far away from it either, but like I said if he keeps practising he will slay some nerds very soon, he should work on his builds mostly since his understanding of the TvZ seems better than his builds in it.


Oh exactly, I don't think anyone here hates illusion, he does what he has to do and plays as best he can in his own style. I think people dislike the amount of hype that gets put on certain players who have only a handful of games on which to back it up, trimaster, goswser, gatored etc. I'm sure we'll see more from him in the future once he has more lan experience and sc2 experience in general while he isn't trying to juggle school and sc2.


I know I hate the hyping after one tournament or one series as well
Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/Beastyqt YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/beastyqtsc2
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 20:23:22
February 08 2012 20:19 GMT
#98
On February 09 2012 02:14 mvtaylor wrote:
illusion is the first player eliminated from IEM Sao Paulo while darkforce gets through 2-1. Boom, pretty happy given my earlier post in the thread.

I think that's why people, and not just germans, get a bit annoyed, the amount of hype attached to players based on what is effectively one week of decent results in online matches.

Lets bet on this. I think Illusion will win a major tournament before DarKFoRcE does, and you seem to disagree. Name your terms.

On February 09 2012 01:37 OrbitalPlane wrote:
Well i was not complaining about the prediction,(even so i don't agree with it). Everyone can has his own opinion about that and it's fine to discuss it, too. And the predictions are predictions so they obviously don't always have to come true. no problem with that...

What was not appropriate imho is to present a player as boring and with a poorly researched introduction. I just don't like the picture that is drawn by that. A lot of people who don't know darkforce as well as the european scene might get a completely wrong picture of him.
If there are several writers anyways, why not let find a writer for the notes who can actually find a positive word of the player?

Name a single thing in my short paragraph on DarKFoRcE that was incorrect, or evidence of poor research. Moreover, my paragraph was plenty positive about DF. Did you read the part where I said he was the second best known in the group, that he was the second most likely to advance?

Or did you not read the paragraph at all? O_o

I recognize that DF wins a lot of games, but I personally (I think it's abundantly clear that my opinion there was a personal value judgement) think his style is dull, and that he doesn't have the massive upside I see in players like Illusion. I tend to sometimes overvalue a player's potential at the cost of their current form, but I'll stand by my analysis here any day.

On February 09 2012 04:19 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 03:58 mvtaylor wrote:
On February 09 2012 03:45 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
I dont think Illusion deserves hate for people hyping him its not really his fault, casters in general try to hype new players after winning one bo3..too much in my opinion.

Illusion is very good for 15 year old player, I have no doubt if he keeps playing that he will be top top player in 12-18 months, but people that hype him are doing more hurt than good (like in this thread people flaming him and calling him bad after so much hype because people expect too much from him).

I watched his games today first time and he plays very risky in TvZ, not getting tank until 14minute and siege mode until 15min will get destroyed many times with just 2 base baneling bust allins or infestor plays. His micro and macro are good, but (no offence to him or his fans) he is not top player and he probably knows it since he's a smart guy. He isnt far away from it either, but like I said if he keeps practising he will slay some nerds very soon, he should work on his builds mostly since his understanding of the TvZ seems better than his builds in it.


Oh exactly, I don't think anyone here hates illusion, he does what he has to do and plays as best he can in his own style. I think people dislike the amount of hype that gets put on certain players who have only a handful of games on which to back it up, trimaster, goswser, gatored etc. I'm sure we'll see more from him in the future once he has more lan experience and sc2 experience in general while he isn't trying to juggle school and sc2.


I know I hate the hyping after one tournament or one series as well

Beasty top three foreign terran?
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
StarGalaxy
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany744 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 21:27:22
February 08 2012 20:55 GMT
#99
i actually don't want to be too narrow-minded, the rest of the write up was pretty good but since you asked here are your answers:

Name a single thing in my short paragraph on DarKFoRcE that was incorrect, or evidence of poor research.

I already did on page 1, but here again special for you:
lack of stellar major tournament results is not true
and DarKFoRcE's best result yet was his defeat of aLive in the NASL Season 1 finals is arguably wrong too.
he has put up quite decent good results in a lot of big tournaments
just some examples:
He beat several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on the GeForce tournament and placing 3rd
did well at WCG, beating MKP and getting out of the group
at both NASL, first placing as the highest foreigner, second one going to the playoffs

Yet it's hard to acknowledge that it does achieve above-average results.
This sounds very weird to me. what is average results? and what is above-average results? Sounds to me like not very extraordinary.

Moreover, my paragraph was plenty positive about DF.

the only really positive thing i can find is that he is funny.

Did you read the part where I said he was the second best known in the group

yes i did, that's more a fact than a positive statement

that he was the second most likely to advance?
Your prediction was 0:3 so sorry that i don't buy that...

Or did you not read the paragraph at all? O_o

i actually did, but it seems you did not read my post on page 1.

I recognize that DF wins a lot of games, but I personally (I think it's abundantly clear that my opinion there was a personal value judgement) think his style is dull, and that he doesn't have the massive upside I see in players like Illusion. I tend to sometimes overvalue a player's potential at the cost of their current form, but I'll stand by my analysis here any day.


I just don't think its the right place to criticize a player. I don't mind if you post it somewhere else but not in the presentation of a player. But that's just my opinion maybe i am the only one who is bothered by that.

the prediction is fine fore me. even so a lot of people might disagree thats your good right to say so.
(But if you make such a ballsy prediction you should not be surprised if other people have a different opinion. even so here were quite some unfair flames about it tbh)

EDIT: Beastyqt Illusion showmatch?
i would have to bet on beasty so. :D
Cj hero | Zest
Timmeh_Anderson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany37 Posts
February 08 2012 21:08 GMT
#100
i would make my bets on beasty too.
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