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IEM Sao Paulo, Day One - Victory Road

Forum Index > News
109 CommentsPost a Reply
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IEM Sao Paulo, Day One - Victory Road

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
Graphics byMeko
February 8th, 2012 00:55 GMT
  • .01
    Day One Preview
  • .02
    Breakdown: oGs.Supernova
  • .03
    Remembering Kiev: Q&A with DIMAGA
  • .04
    The World Championship Picture
  • .LP
    IEM Sao Paulo on Liquipedia
.01
Day One Preview: Group A and B

by tree.hugger

Group A

At first glance, a lot of people dubbed this the hardest group in the tournament, but if it is, it's not by a huge margin. What Group A does have, is the single toughest opponent in the event in kr (T)oGsSuperNoVa. The sole Korean invitee to the event, SuperNoVa has stepped into the role as the Old Generations ace after the departure of MC, and has been a revelation. Always a solid Code S contender, SuperNoVa made the Ro16 this season before dropping out of a group with Puzzle, MMA, and Oz. He will not find such lofty competition in São Paulo.

However, that's not to say that this tournament is automatically his. Group A will provide several challenges for the Korean right from the start. The most interesting player in the group is us (T)VileIllusion, who is coming off a month of much publicity and rising interest in the community. He plays an aggressive, multi-task heavy style, which works wonders against foreigners, but will make it difficult for him against a Korean progamer who will play the same style, but better. That said, after going toe to toe with FXOasd in the IPL TAC, an upset from the young American is certainly possible. The X-factor will be Illusion's age. At 15, he can't be expected to be used to the travel and inconveniences of the grueling international circuit. How that affects him remains to be seen.

Playing closer to home will be cl (Z)d.Killer. The Chilean Zerg had a miserable time a few weeks ago as he tried to get to Ukraine for IEM Kiev, wherein he was ultimately foiled by a string of awful logistical screw-ups. In São Paulo, he'll have a chance to prove that the tournament was poorer for it at Kiev. On paper, he's not the favorite. While being a very solid and consistent player all-around, KiLLeR has struggled to really make a name for himself and put together a single remarkable performance. WCG came close, as his group performance was solid, but he lost early in the bracket. His last major appearance was a futile two-kill vs Vile in the IPL TAC, in which he did defeat Illusion. But in São Paulo, only the home continent advantage seems in his column.

The final member of the group is the best known of the non-koreans, and perhaps of all the players in the group. It feels like de (Z)aTn.DarKFoRcE has been around forever, and while he's in the same boat as KiLLeR in a lack of stellar major tournament results, he's been better exposed overall. DarKFoRcE is a funny player; this writer in particular is almost never impressed by his play, which often feels slow and unimaginative. Yet it's hard to acknowledge that it does achieve above-average results. DarKFoRcE's best result yet was his defeat of aLive in the NASL Season 1 finals, and in his second major tournament in the western hemisphere, he'll hope to recapture that magic.

Prediction:

SuperNoVa: 3 - 0
Illusion: 2 - 1
KiLLeR: 1 - 2
DarKFoRcE: 0 - 3


Group B

Group B has no claim to being the toughest group, but it contains some good players, and some intriguing ones for those of us who like to see players outside the usual crowd. Heading the group, however, is a standard establishment figure; uk (T)EG.DeMusliM. Currently one of the more confusing players, nobody can seem to figure out whether the British Terran is overrated or underrated. And in true Starcraft fashion, the currents of both viewpoints are so strong, that he may be a little of both. While at any point in the past year, DeMuslim would've been the clear favorite in this group, suddenly he doesn't look as strong. EG has had a miserable time of it in the new year, and DeMusliM is no exception, unofficially relinquishing the de-facto 'best UK player' title that he had held, by losing 3-4 in a showmatch to BlinG (going 0-3 in EG's recent teamleague performances hasn't helped). In São Paulo, he needs to start turning the ship around, and a solid performance to advance from a very manageable group would be a good start.

The next favorite, (or perhaps the favorite) for the group is be (P)Mill.Feast, who had an impressive showing at IEM Kiev, his first major LAN. Solid wins over QXC and HerO put him into the bracket where he faced off against MMA, and he took a game off of the former GSL champion though he lost the series. Feast is a very solid player, who relies mostly on good management than fancy micro or greedy macro. His maxed army control is good, his patience in getting there is also good, and he can mix in early timings to keep opponents off balance. Feast isn't the kind of player you'd expect to win this tournament, but he's certainly a player you'd anticipate advancing from this group and possibly win a round or two in the bracket stage. He can handle DeMusliM and everyone else in Group B.

The group's third European is de (Z)MYM.XlorD, who has always been something of an enigma. We see him rarely, but there are always rumors floating around that he's practicing/taking the game seriously/going to destroy everyone in 2012. The reality is that he's clearly an extremely talented player who can always be relied upon to outperform expectations and give people good games. But because of his focus on school, he never seems to be committed enough to take his game to the next level. At the MLG European qualifiers, he was disappointing, but perhaps with the incentive of his first non-European LAN, he will be able to kick it into high gear. XlorD can totally play the spoiler in this group, but only if the good XlorD shows up.

The final member of the group is br (Z)KEYD.Tunico, who qualified as National Champion of Brazil. One of the most exciting things about IEM in Brazil is the chance to see players like Tunico and his countryman and teammate Potiguar, who are extremely well known locally (they meet in the finals of nearly every Brazilian tournament) but unknown internationally. Tunico is a very young and very talented Zerg player who doesn't rely heavily on gimmicks or non-standard play. Instead, he plays a safe and reactionary style of zerg, which feels like it should do well against Feast but less well against DeMusliM. ZvZ has been a serious problem for Tunico, at least in the past, and that endangers his chances of advancing, as he will most likely need to edge XlorD to move on. But with good play against Feast or DeMu, his chances will look a lot brighter. And there's no doubt he'll have the support of the Brazilian crowd behind him, so who knows how far he could go.

Prediction:

DeMusliM: 2 - 1
Feast: 2 - 1

XlorD: 1 - 2
Tunico: 1 - 2

.02
Breakdown: oGs.SuperNoVa

by Fionn and Waxangel

Despite being just one of sixteen players, oGs.SuperNoVa's status as the sole Korea based Korean player is leading many esports fans to pick him as a heavy favorite to win it all. Resident GSL snobs Fionn and Waxangel weighed in on the oGs ace, and his chances to win a championship.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqzpeuHx478

Let's get this straight. When looking at the players in this tournament, the favorite isn't hard to see. Not to say that Violet, Ret, or DeMusliM aren't fantastic players in their own right, but SuperNoVa is competing at a whole other level. The newly appointed of ace of oGs has quietly become one of the best Korean players in the past few months, even though he just dropped from the Code S RO16 to stiff competition in FXO_z, SlayerS_MMA, and SlayerS_Puzzle. You may think that not getting to the quarterfinals of the toughest tournament in the world doesn't bode well for him going into Brazil, but...

The level of play in Code S has gotten ridiculous since the format shake-up in November, which dumped more than half of the previous seeds. Top 16 in Code S has since then become a legit claim top 16 in the world. Other than SuperNoVa, the only other player attending IEM São Paulo to ever be in a GSL Code S would be Violet, and that was so long ago that it isn't even relevant. If you've found it hard to spare the cash for the GSL as of late, you should be in for a treat if the oGs ace can bring his Code S game to Sao Paulo.

SuperNoVa is a versatile player, and you never really know what you're going to get until you open the box. He can play a very slow, steady game, playing with total patience and using his mastery of tanks to choke you to death. He can also harass you from all angles, abusing hellions and medivacs to terrorize your unprotected bases. And what's a Korean Terran without the ability to bust out some of the sharpest, straight up all-in builds that require perfect reactions to survive?

SuperNoVa's TvZ is his strongest match-up by far, and it's on a ridiculous level. He beat Leenock in the first round of the GSL in crisp fashion, wowing viewers by taking down arguably the best ZvT player in the world alongside DongRaeGu. Oh, on that note – SuperNoVa beat DRG in the AoL in November, and in Code S October before that. Coincidentally, Ret and Violet, the two next best players in the tournament, are Zerg players. Besides them, another eight, not-as-good Zerg players are in the tournament as well. What can we say? Things look pretty good for SuperNoVa.

Though SuperNoVa's TvT is not over-the-top amazing like his TvZ, it's pretty damn good as well. Mvp's the only player who's really had his number in that match-up in the past few months. Seeing that he's beat players like Bomber, Taeja, Gumiho, and Happy in recent months, it doesn't seem that Illusion or DeMusliM will pose too much of a problem.

The best chance the rest of the field has at the moment is to exploit his TvP. SuperNoVa doesn't seem very confident in it lately, going almost exclusively for all-in builds in his GSL RO16 games – perhaps owing to the caliber of opponents he faced in Oz and Puzzle, two of the top five Protosses in the world. That's not to say they were weak, desperation all-ins. Though not quite Puma-level, they were some seriously dangerous 1/1/1's, and they were good enough to beat former teammate SK.MC in the previous round. Oz and Puzzle just happen to be really, really good at PvT.

Luckily for him, there are only three Protosses at the tournament; Real, a Europe-based Korean who had a very good showing at HomeStory Cup, Feast, a rising player coming off an impressive live debut at Kiev, and Potiguar, a quirky player from the host country. While none of them are in the same tier as Puzzle or Oz, they might be able to channel the spirit of the Russian TitaN, who scored a 2 - 0 victory over SuperNoVa at the WCG 2011 grand finals. Arguably, those three aren't as good as TitaN either, but at the very least we know that Supernova can lose to a foreign Protoss.

Whether it's pure skill, the race breakdown, or even the specific players playing each race, there's almost nothing going wrong for SuperNoVa. Arguably, MMA had worse odds going into IEM Kiev (where nine Protoss players awaited), and look what happened. This really is SuperNoVa's tournament to lose.

.03
Remembering Kiev: Q&A with DIMAGA

At the previous Global Challenge event in Kiev, DIMAGA, Kas, and White-Ra did their country proud by finishing high in the rankings. DIMAGA finished second place in the tournament, after losing to #1 in the world SlayerS_MMA in the finals. In a quick e-mail Q&A session with TeamLiquid, DIMAGA looked back at the tournament and what it meant.



[image loading]

TeamLiquid: Congratulations on a top finish at IEM Kiev. How did it feel to put on such an impressive performance in your home country?

DIMAGA: Thanks! It's really great but still not the best cause I'm not top1 in that tourney TT. I know it was really great result overall but when you play in the finals, you always want to win it, especially when you see all this people cheering so hard for you (thanks to everybody)!!!

Kas mentioned that having the home fans cheer him on helped him play better. Did you get the same kind of inspiration from the crowd? Did you feel extra pressure?

Yea it's true when you see all this people it's just something... you can't tell this in words you just need to feel it

You're known as a player who shows a lot of emotion. How do you think this affects you in tournaments?

Sometimes its really affect me but I trying to be not affected of my emotions in game but it's really hard to do ^^

MMA has done very well in the last few months. Were you more nervous facing him than any other opponent? Did you think you had a good chance of beating him?

Yea MMA is really top player in the world. I wasn't nervous before we start our games vs MMA, I dunno why but I start nervous when I won first game kinda so "easy" :D. In 2nd game beginning was really favor by me, but then I just make one big mistake and lost all match I think TT sometimes happened

MMA had some specific strategies planned out against you. Did you prepare specifically for him as well? How did your plans work out?

I don't think he was making something specific for me. Nothing special was prepared for MMA by me cause have no time to prepare TT. If maybe I have at least one day I think I can do some crazy game . My plan was kinda ok but I made three big mistake and lost my match:

1) Shakuras when I attacked in the middle of map without creep TT, 2) Terminus I pick wrong build order TT, 3) Misunderstand his build (I don't count his SCV) so I think he was making rax CC.

At both HomeStory Cup and IEM Kiev, you were undefeated against other non-Koreans, and only lost games to Korean players. Is there any special reason it is harder to face Korean players?

I was also lucky not to lose non-Korean player cause I have a lot of games when I can easy lose game ^^. Overall it's kinda easy to explain this situation, I think Korean just better then non-Kor.

Liquid`Ret mentioned that foreign Zerg players are as good as Koreans during Lair tech, but have trouble once they reach Hive tech. Do you think this is true?

I'm agree with it. I also think some of us (EU Zerg) is much better then Korean Zerg player

Did winning Assembly Summer in 2011 change your mentality? Did it give you confidence, or did it take away some pressure you had to win a big tournament?

Yea winning such big Lan event like Assembly gives me really great experience and much more confidence in my gameplay.

The Ukrainians did quite well at this tournament, but it seems like it's been the same four guys (Kas, you, White-Ra, Strelok) representing the country for over a year now. Do you think there are any interesting upcoming Ukrainian players that could help Ukraine stay a Starcraft II power in the future?

We already have a lot of good players like bly, happyzerg, underdark and a lot more dont want to forget someone

Going to Korea for a short period to train has become more common lately. You did pretty well the last time you were there; do you have any interest in going for a short period again?

Hmm I don't think about really short period of time but I think it can be possible. I for sure can't stay there for long term period of time, but for some kind of tournament it can be possible for sure But just going to Korea for practice I think it's not for me.

You were very active in 2011, traveling to a lot of live tournaments around the world. Do you plan to be as active in 2012, going to a lot of tournaments as well?

Yea I hope so ^^ I will try do my best this year as well !!!

Any last comments, shoutouts, etc?

Thanks too all fans of e-sports !!! Thanks to my team mTw to our sponsors: XMG, Kaspersky, Sennheiser !!!! See you soon probably :D

.04
The World Championship Picture

In order to figure out what the heck Sao Paulo could mean for the IEM World Championship picture, we sat down with our IEM rulebooks, and Liquipedia ranking charts for an afternoon of number crunching. A few hours later, we found out that IEM had done our work for us: IEM Sao Paulo and World Championship Implications.

Oh well.




TeamLiquid ESPORTS

Writers: Fionn, tree.hugger and Waxangel.
Graphics and layout: Meko.
Editor: WaxAngel.


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TL+ Member
TheCtd400
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States136 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 00:58:00
February 08 2012 00:57 GMT
#2
I like DeMuslim, Ret, or violet to take the whole thing
That awkward moment when you realize you've cancelled stim/combat shield because you lifted the barracks. | Thorzain Fighting!!!
-Strider-
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Mexico1605 Posts
February 08 2012 01:01 GMT
#3
On February 08 2012 09:57 TheCtd400 wrote:
I like DeMuslim, Ret, or violet to take the whole thing

Supernova will take it if he doesn't get nerve issues
What is up? IM NESTEAAAA!
s.a.y
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Croatia3840 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 01:16:27
February 08 2012 01:02 GMT
#4
Vile Ilussion is linked to the wrong player

EDIT 1: It's still linked wrong. It seems Illusion has no TLPD page. His wiki is http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Illusion_(American_player)

EDIT 2: TLPD page -> http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/3659
I am not good with quotes
wichenks
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada153 Posts
February 08 2012 01:02 GMT
#5
Great write up! Psyched for the show!
Sometimes Artosis and I like to have Hot 6ix with each other - Tasteless
Rosettastoned
Profile Joined September 2010
United States107 Posts
February 08 2012 01:04 GMT
#6
Definitely going to be good, but the end is really going to depend on WHEN the heavy hitters of Ret/Dimaga/Demuslim/Violet will be hitting eachother later on.

Group D is going to be weird..... all ZvZ x.X
LA_Morello
Profile Joined July 2011
Brazil143 Posts
February 08 2012 01:05 GMT
#7
Cheerin up for Potiguar, Tunico and KiLLeR. :D
VirgilSC2
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States6151 Posts
February 08 2012 01:05 GMT
#8
I don't think I'm the only one hoping for a huge upset win by vileIllusion
Clarity Gaming #1 Fan | Avid MTG Grinder | @VirgilSC2
TheTurk
Profile Joined January 2011
United States732 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 01:11:31
February 08 2012 01:05 GMT
#9
Awesome writeup!
Thanks so much. <3

Edit:
I think Feast will make it out of his group 3-0. He's too good.
Starcraft is a lifestyle.
bundo
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada113 Posts
February 08 2012 01:09 GMT
#10
hope illusion gets out of his group and does well! supernova to take it though
naux
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada738 Posts
February 08 2012 01:09 GMT
#11
reis is gonna try to snipe another oGs player
Proko
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1022 Posts
February 08 2012 01:09 GMT
#12
You heard it here first, Supernova will not win IEM Sao Paulo. I am predicting it now.
Caster duos should compliment each others' strengths. "You look very handsome today, Tasteless."
Gacrux
Profile Joined June 2011
Brazil5 Posts
February 08 2012 01:14 GMT
#13
This is gonna be awesome
Up the Irons!
Shebuha
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1335 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 01:15:51
February 08 2012 01:14 GMT
#14
I want d.Killer to make it out of dat group!!! Did you know that guy has a 57% win rate on TLPD?? He's good and I hope he can make me proud.
:`)
JeffVader
Profile Joined February 2011
United States79 Posts
February 08 2012 01:15 GMT
#15
LOL I'm loving the Mr. Bitter massive brain fart at the end. <3 you bitter
As if you could kill time without injuring eternity.
JeffVader
Profile Joined February 2011
United States79 Posts
February 08 2012 01:16 GMT
#16
Oh and Vile Illusion fighting!!!
As if you could kill time without injuring eternity.
Urth
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States1248 Posts
February 08 2012 01:16 GMT
#17
Always hoping for Ret...never quite gets there, w/e. Ret fighting!
BY.HERO FIGHTING!!!!
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
February 08 2012 01:20 GMT
#18
Go Illusion! For the USA!
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
Proko
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1022 Posts
February 08 2012 01:35 GMT
#19
I need to add that I love Illusion. He is the USA's SC hope, i believe.
Caster duos should compliment each others' strengths. "You look very handsome today, Tasteless."
StarGalaxy
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany744 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 01:41:40
February 08 2012 01:36 GMT
#20
Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcE
I guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too. But i guess every above average diamond player can do that...

Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene.

I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players...

Cj hero | Zest
VirgilSC2
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States6151 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 01:42:57
February 08 2012 01:41 GMT
#21
On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:
Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcE
I guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too.

Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene.

I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players...


Dreamhack and Assembly were both in the Eastern Hemisphere

[image loading]
Clarity Gaming #1 Fan | Avid MTG Grinder | @VirgilSC2
r3z3nd3
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Brazil522 Posts
February 08 2012 01:47 GMT
#22
Gonna sleep right now to be there tomorrow. Go (Z)Tunico
Born to fast expand
StarGalaxy
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany744 Posts
February 08 2012 01:49 GMT
#23
valid point
thx for the explanation, was not familiar with that expression.

The other points so still stand.
The bias opinion that the author is never impressed by his play is out of place imho.

Cj hero | Zest
Balgrog
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1221 Posts
February 08 2012 01:51 GMT
#24
DeMuslim or Ret to take it, they both have been on the cusp of winning something big for so long, I really hope this happens!
The only way to attack structure is with chaos.
Champloo
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1850 Posts
February 08 2012 01:58 GMT
#25
Supernova will not make it out of his group.
Catatonic
Profile Joined August 2011
United States699 Posts
February 08 2012 01:59 GMT
#26
DeMu has this :DD Come on DeMu!!!!! :DDD
T: DeMuslim SeleCT. P: Naniwa Genius. Z: IdrA Destiny Team: EG
Proseat
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Germany5113 Posts
February 08 2012 02:00 GMT
#27
Good work. Nice preview.
The Rise and Fall of SlayerS -- a timeline: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=378097
Chunhyang
Profile Joined December 2011
Bangladesh1389 Posts
February 08 2012 02:10 GMT
#28
On February 08 2012 10:09 Proko wrote:
You heard it here first, Supernova will not win IEM Sao Paulo. I am predicting it now.


You're not first.

A coward's prediction. No one will remember it if you are wrong.
If you could reason with haters, there would be no haters. YGTMYFT
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5356 Posts
February 08 2012 02:14 GMT
#29
On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:
Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcE
I guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too. But i guess every above average diamond player can do that...

Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene.

I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players...


Dude chill out....
It's a TL article written by writers with their own personal opinions, it's reasonable for them to dislike certain players. I personally don't think Feast is that good, but unless you want to write an article going over 8 players and their recent backgrounds, interviews, and predictions, I suggest you be happy with what you're reading now.
Just saying, DH and Assembly were in the EAST.
¯\_(シ)_/¯
Seraphone
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom1219 Posts
February 08 2012 02:15 GMT
#30
Come on Supernova!
Mvp, Nestea, Leenock, MC, Oz, Jjakji!
Seraphone
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom1219 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 02:17:25
February 08 2012 02:17 GMT
#31
On February 08 2012 10:09 Proko wrote:
You heard it here first, Supernova will not win IEM Sao Paulo. I am predicting it now.


Oh look, it's that guy who makes dumb predictions so he can bump on the off chance he's right but no one will remember when he's wrong, and you weren't even the first to do that.
Mvp, Nestea, Leenock, MC, Oz, Jjakji!
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
February 08 2012 02:30 GMT
#32
Rooting for Snute and Illusion right now!
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Proko
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1022 Posts
February 08 2012 02:30 GMT
#33
On February 08 2012 11:10 Chunhyang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 10:09 Proko wrote:
You heard it here first, Supernova will not win IEM Sao Paulo. I am predicting it now.


You're not first.

A coward's prediction. No one will remember it if you are wrong.


On February 08 2012 11:17 Seraphone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 10:09 Proko wrote:
You heard it here first, Supernova will not win IEM Sao Paulo. I am predicting it now.


Oh look, it's that guy who makes dumb predictions so he can bump on the off chance he's right but no one will remember when he's wrong, and you weren't even the first to do that.


Ok guys, You might want to a) breathe b) chill.

Caster duos should compliment each others' strengths. "You look very handsome today, Tasteless."
parazice
Profile Joined March 2011
Thailand5517 Posts
February 08 2012 02:32 GMT
#34
>.< i can't say i love this player list much but GO GO IEM!!
Torenhire
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States11681 Posts
February 08 2012 02:53 GMT
#35
Illusion going to win this ezpz.

I should get him to sign a bunch of stuff before he becomes uber famous and forgets me
SirJolt: Well maybe if you weren't so big and stupid, it wouldn't have hit you.
bobsire
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada296 Posts
February 08 2012 03:00 GMT
#36
supernova has this in his pocket.
kochujang
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany1226 Posts
February 08 2012 03:22 GMT
#37
Supernova fighting!
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
February 08 2012 03:32 GMT
#38
ogsillusion always get linked in tlpd instead of vileillusion...lol poor chris.

vileillusion is better anyway.
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
February 08 2012 03:37 GMT
#39
poor supernova having to face dark force, might lose that really well. And go go xlord !
gradotude
Profile Joined October 2009
United States196 Posts
February 08 2012 03:38 GMT
#40
Love Dimaga.
Pocky52
Profile Joined November 2011
United States463 Posts
February 08 2012 03:39 GMT
#41
I think Supernova will win, but I hope Ret will ^_^ would like too see more of Illusion, so hopefully he will advance too
Ansinjunger
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2451 Posts
February 08 2012 03:43 GMT
#42
I don't cheer many protosses, but I'm pulling for Feast.
kittensrcute
Profile Joined August 2010
United States617 Posts
February 08 2012 03:43 GMT
#43
On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:
Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcE
I guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too. But i guess every above average diamond player can do that...

Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene.

I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players...


They are above average results and so that's why he said he gets above average results.
Corsica
Profile Joined February 2011
Ukraine1854 Posts
February 08 2012 03:52 GMT
#44
On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:
Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcE
I guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too. But i guess every above average diamond player can do that...

Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene.

I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players...




I got used to NA writers to forget about EU players and be biased as fuck about such players as Illusion who havent been to any not NA Lans... thats something you have to get used to living here at TL...

On topic: Never underestimate DarkForce...people call him DarkHorse for a reason...When he is on top of his game he can kill Koreans...

Pred: Supernova 3-0
Darkforce 2-1
Illusion 1-2
Killer 0-3
Melo.
Profile Joined August 2011
United States63 Posts
February 08 2012 04:03 GMT
#45
So according to Grubby, Fenix isn't gonna make it to IEM.....Visa issues
TheRealNanMan
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1471 Posts
February 08 2012 05:00 GMT
#46
I'm really excited to see how Illusion does, I've been familiar with his play since he won his first DC LAN back in the summer. I know he has a really good chance of making it out of the group!
Sc2 Caster | Host of Sc2 Up & Coming | The Godfather of Team LXG | Sc2 Historian | Youtube.com/NanMan | Twitch.tv/TheRealNanMan | Twitter.com/TheRealNanMan |
The_Darkness
Profile Joined December 2011
United States910 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 05:29:06
February 08 2012 05:28 GMT
#47
I think Darkforce will advance out of his group and is being underrated. He's better than Killer, has generally performed at a much higher level than Illusion and is capable of taking a game off Supernova.

As the commenter pointed out above he took third in the GeForce tournament which had an insanely competitive field. He may not be the best European but he's in the top tier and that's enough for me to favor him against Feast and Illusion (in spite of the latter's excellent play of late).

Also Supernova's record according to your own database is the worst (marginally) against Zerg and he just lost 3-1 against Leenock. I'm not saying he shouldn't be favored in the tournament, but the write up was hyping him a little too strongly, even though he looked very strong in the first round at the GSL. Otherwise no quibbles.
To be is to be the value of a bound variable.
MVTaylor
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2893 Posts
February 08 2012 05:45 GMT
#48
On February 08 2012 10:41 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:
Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcE
I guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too.

Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene.

I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players...


Dreamhack and Assembly were both in the Eastern Hemisphere

[image loading]



This is BEYOND nit picking. Europe and America are in the Western Hemisphere without doubt. Unless the Cold War of East against West had some severe tectonic movement to agree with the dictionary definition...
@followMVT
ZisforZerg
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States224 Posts
February 08 2012 05:47 GMT
#49
DIMAGA is literally the nicest person to walk to the earth, with WhiteRa ofc.
"I'm too drunk, to taste that chicken."
ZisforZerg
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States224 Posts
February 08 2012 05:49 GMT
#50
On February 08 2012 12:52 Corsica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:
Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcE
I guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too. But i guess every above average diamond player can do that...

Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene.

I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players...




I got used to NA writers to forget about EU players and be biased as fuck about such players as Illusion who havent been to any not NA Lans... thats something you have to get used to living here at TL...

On topic: Never underestimate DarkForce...people call him DarkHorse for a reason...When he is on top of his game he can kill Koreans...

Pred: Supernova 3-0
Darkforce 2-1
Illusion 1-2
Killer 0-3

please don't start this nonsense, he hasn't posted results in a while, the writers haven't forgotten about him it's simply hard to predict a guy who hasn't played in a while to do well.
"I'm too drunk, to taste that chicken."
devPLEASE
Profile Joined March 2011
Kenya605 Posts
February 08 2012 06:18 GMT
#51
When did Illusion leave oGs and join Vile?
(ノ `Д´)ノ︵┻━┻
MVTaylor
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2893 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 06:25:09
February 08 2012 06:21 GMT
#52
On February 08 2012 14:49 ZisforZerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 12:52 Corsica wrote:
On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:
Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcE
I guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too. But i guess every above average diamond player can do that...

Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene.

I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players...




I got used to NA writers to forget about EU players and be biased as fuck about such players as Illusion who havent been to any not NA Lans... thats something you have to get used to living here at TL...

On topic: Never underestimate DarkForce...people call him DarkHorse for a reason...When he is on top of his game he can kill Koreans...

Pred: Supernova 3-0
Darkforce 2-1
Illusion 1-2
Killer 0-3

please don't start this nonsense, he hasn't posted results in a while, the writers haven't forgotten about him it's simply hard to predict a guy who hasn't played in a while to do well.


Nonsense? Darkforce beat MarineKing at WCG in December and got in to the top 16 at Home Story Cup last month. I forgot how every player in SC2 should only be judged by how they performed last week.

I would like nothing more than the colossal hype train that is illusion to crash to and burn. It's the guys first LAN outside of the US, he's 15 years old and says in an interview he lies IRL when he plays in these tournaments.

Seriously, he's beaten two koreans online in best of 1's where they are playing cross server and then come "second" in an online tournament by beating Poyo, Incontrol, Catz and Destiny. Can we wait until people do something moderately decent in an offline setting before going mental about them, and by moderately decent I don't mean 24th place at an MLG, TriMaster got 16th at MLG Anaheim, where is he now.

On February 08 2012 15:18 devPLEASE wrote:
When did Illusion leave oGs and join Vile?


Same ID, different player.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Illusion_(Korean_player)
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Illusion_(American_player)
@followMVT
trinxified
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada7774 Posts
February 08 2012 06:28 GMT
#53
Supernova is like MMA was in IEM kiev...
NuclearJudas
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
6546 Posts
February 08 2012 07:05 GMT
#54
Supernova is definitely the mega favourite to win, I'd say. Hoping for a Ret win, though.
Life is like Tetris. Your errors pile up but your accomplishments disappear. - Robert Ohlén | http://railroaddiary.wordpress.com/ - My words about stuff.
Ramuh
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany238 Posts
February 08 2012 07:09 GMT
#55
I don't know...Darkforce is pretty good in ZvT...
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
February 08 2012 07:54 GMT
#56
Dunno, I think Illusion is kind of overhyped these days. If you look at his past results, he only has a meager bronze medal in which he went through: destiny and incontrol as most notable players...
Anyways, should Illusion not finish second in the group, I can't promise I won't have a smug smile on my face.
TheNessman
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States4158 Posts
February 08 2012 08:07 GMT
#57
is ROTTERDAM going to be casting??? OH SHIT SO EXCITED
~~! youtube.com/xmungam1 !~~
Asshat
Profile Joined September 2010
593 Posts
February 08 2012 08:18 GMT
#58
On February 08 2012 13:03 Melo. wrote:
So according to Grubby, Fenix isn't gonna make it to IEM.....Visa issues


I find it extremely doubtful that a Peruvian citizen needs a Visa to travel to Brazil.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10668 Posts
February 08 2012 08:20 GMT
#59
The Group A Predictions are really WEIRD...

Aside from Supernova 3-0 which is kinda a given... It's just 100% guessing whiteout any facts or anything behind it except country bias? ^^
I just don't see any "smart" way to "guess" the outcome of this group, if DF brings his best play he should for sure get second... If not this could get messi.
Predicting 0-3 Darkforce is really strange tho...

Or you could go with the "JETLAG!" excuse and say that Supernova will drop 1 serioes and DF get crushed.. Which will make things messi again ^^.
Vaapad
Profile Joined August 2011
Norway171 Posts
February 08 2012 08:35 GMT
#60
gogo snute :D
Duty is heavier than a mountain. Death, lighter than a feather
Grovbolle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark3805 Posts
February 08 2012 08:57 GMT
#61
DeMuslim lost 4-5 not 3-4 to BlinG
Lies, damned lies and statistics: http://aligulac.com
-ZiG-
Profile Joined November 2010
United States84 Posts
February 08 2012 09:38 GMT
#62
omg so many zergs i bet the casters are gonna get real tired of casting zvz.....
Lets ride
vdale
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1173 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 09:56:53
February 08 2012 09:39 GMT
#63
I hope Darkforce and Xlord can make it. Germany needs some positive results, because it seems like all our players are in a slump right now (Hasu, Socke, Goody).

I won't argue about the 0-3 prediction for Darkforce, because it's definitely possible, but I think he should be a slight favorite for 2nd place in his group.
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51471 Posts
February 08 2012 09:40 GMT
#64
Theres me thinking victory road...pokemon theme write up :O how very wrong so cruel Fionn/Wax/Tree!

Still i mainly agree, apart from DeMuslim lost 5-4 vs BlinG not 4-3
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
robih
Profile Joined September 2010
Austria1086 Posts
February 08 2012 10:36 GMT
#65
xlord will tear them apart!
GuitarBizarre
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom332 Posts
February 08 2012 10:41 GMT
#66
Demuslim lost 4-5, not 3-4...it was a best of 9.

That said, DEMUSLIM HWAITING! Gogogogo demu!
In retrospect, I don't know how you can play StarCraft without swearing. - Eifer
Bobster
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany3075 Posts
February 08 2012 10:59 GMT
#67
On February 08 2012 18:38 -ZiG- wrote:
omg so many zergs i bet the casters are gonna get real tired of casting zvz.....

MrBitter getting tired of ZvZ?

Not gonna happen. :p
Kiwiandapple
Profile Joined March 2011
Belgium240 Posts
February 08 2012 11:08 GMT
#68
On February 08 2012 10:05 VirgilSC2 wrote:
I don't think I'm the only one hoping for a huge upset win by vileIllusion


*prays* ^^
Don't worry, that's halo!
Ramuh
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany238 Posts
February 08 2012 11:13 GMT
#69
I have to work till 5pm cet, nooo
krt
Profile Joined June 2011
Brazil5 Posts
February 08 2012 11:41 GMT
#70
its são paulo btw
~ over the a., it means a more nasal sound.
Charging Zealots at your base
Tarotis
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Germany1931 Posts
February 08 2012 11:56 GMT
#71
On February 08 2012 19:59 Bobster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 18:38 -ZiG- wrote:
omg so many zergs i bet the casters are gonna get real tired of casting zvz.....

MrBitter getting tired of ZvZ?

Not gonna happen. :p

The american Flash? First major win with 15?
DarKFoRcE
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany1215 Posts
February 08 2012 12:13 GMT
#72
i would like to bet against your prediction :D
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/PinDarKFoRcE
Kiwiandapple
Profile Joined March 2011
Belgium240 Posts
February 08 2012 12:17 GMT
#73
On February 08 2012 21:13 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i would like to bet against your prediction :D


go for it darkforce! ^^ how was the storm btw yesterday? all good now?
Don't worry, that's halo!
DarKFoRcE
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany1215 Posts
February 08 2012 12:18 GMT
#74
On February 08 2012 21:17 Kiwiandapple wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 21:13 DarKFoRcE wrote:
i would like to bet against your prediction :D


go for it darkforce! ^^ how was the storm btw yesterday? all good now?


it was very good, cooled down the place alot!
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/PinDarKFoRcE
Ghostbone
Profile Joined February 2012
Chile18 Posts
February 08 2012 12:25 GMT
#75
I really want to KiLLeR pass his bracket, he's a excelent player, but he has to defeat an amazing players... GOGO KiLLeR, you can do it bro!
.Amon.
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany64 Posts
February 08 2012 12:33 GMT
#76
I laughed at DF 0 - 3. I dont think illusion stands a chance. seriously whoever wrote that seems to be blind. DFs zvt is amazing
DailYLeet
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany827 Posts
February 08 2012 13:22 GMT
#77
df 0-3? kidding me?
"King Goody spoke - you have to treat his words like gold , he is the wisest man , who ever crossed the EU server" - Cloud
alepoff
Profile Joined January 2012
140 Posts
February 08 2012 13:38 GMT
#78
hope supernova doesn't choke, guy deserves a tournament win
let's bounce
Strivers
Profile Joined November 2010
United States358 Posts
February 08 2012 14:04 GMT
#79
why does Real have his own category of "Asian player". he's Korean

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IEM_Season_VI_-_Global_Challenge_Sao_Paulo
These little dudes really like the blue stuff..
MVTaylor
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2893 Posts
February 08 2012 14:15 GMT
#80
Oh look, Darkforce 1-0 and illusion 0-1.

If Darkforce can just beat Killer then he's through assuming an obvious supernova 3-0 crush.
@followMVT
DailYLeet
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany827 Posts
February 08 2012 14:20 GMT
#81
and bad prediction is wrong after first game :D
"King Goody spoke - you have to treat his words like gold , he is the wisest man , who ever crossed the EU server" - Cloud
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
February 08 2012 14:37 GMT
#82
On February 08 2012 16:54 JustPassingBy wrote:
Dunno, I think Illusion is kind of overhyped these days. If you look at his past results, he only has a meager bronze medal in which he went through: destiny and incontrol as most notable players...
Anyways, should Illusion not finish second in the group, I can't promise I won't have a smug smile on my face.


my lips are starting to tickle!
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 16:13:34
February 08 2012 16:09 GMT
#83
On February 08 2012 12:52 Corsica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:
Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcE
I guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too. But i guess every above average diamond player can do that...

Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene.

I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players...




I got used to NA writers to forget about EU players and be biased as fuck about such players as Illusion who havent been to any not NA Lans... thats something you have to get used to living here at TL...

On topic: Never underestimate DarkForce...people call him DarkHorse for a reason...When he is on top of his game he can kill Koreans...

Pred: Supernova 3-0
Darkforce 2-1
Illusion 1-2
Killer 0-3
You've clearly never read anything I've ever written then, or you'd know how highly I rate Europeans.
On February 08 2012 14:45 mvtaylor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 10:41 VirgilSC2 wrote:
On February 08 2012 10:36 OrbitalPlane wrote:
Great research on Darkforce mr author, there is a wiki called liquipedia... http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/DarKFoRcE
I guess placing ro8 in NASL is his best result by far. Way better than beating several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on GeForce tournament and placing 3rd. I am also convinced that at the WCG in Busan his win against MarinKing was an above-average results too.

Also good to learn something new with every article. I did not know that it is his second major tournament in the western hemisphere. I guess DreamHack and Assembly does not count in the american scene.

I really hope next time there is someone less bias writing the article who values the above-average results of one of the best foreigner Zerg players...


Dreamhack and Assembly were both in the Eastern Hemisphere

[image loading]



This is BEYOND nit picking. Europe and America are in the Western Hemisphere without doubt. Unless the Cold War of East against West had some severe tectonic movement to agree with the dictionary definition...
It's not beyond nitpicking, it's precisely what I said, and precisely what I meant.

On February 08 2012 23:20 DailYLeet wrote:
and bad prediction is wrong after first game :D

Sometimes you're right and sometimes you're wrong. DarKFoRcE has a turtly playstyle, which I think is boring, and hope gets picked apart more often as faster and more aggressive players come around. Winning a series 2-1 against Illusion doesn't change much. Notice that I said he's the second favorite to advance from the group. In the for funsies number prediction, I thought he might go 0-3 (3-6). Maybe he'll go 1-2 instead, or maybe he'll go 2-1. But all of the Germans in this thread should probably chill out about it.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
Finrod1
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany3997 Posts
February 08 2012 16:19 GMT
#84
Hey tree. im perfectly fine with your analysis and love those writeups. Dont get annoyed by the few haters. thanks as always for the writing!
jumbotroN
Profile Joined April 2010
Peru229 Posts
February 08 2012 16:36 GMT
#85
Cheering for Killer and Fenix.
StarGalaxy
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany744 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 16:39:10
February 08 2012 16:37 GMT
#86
Well i was not complaining about the prediction,(even so i don't agree with it). Everyone can has his own opinion about that and it's fine to discuss it, too. And the predictions are predictions so they obviously don't always have to come true. no problem with that...

What was not appropriate imho is to present a player as boring and with a poorly researched introduction. I just don't like the picture that is drawn by that. A lot of people who don't know darkforce as well as the european scene might get a completely wrong picture of him.
If there are several writers anyways, why not let find a writer for the notes who can actually find a positive word of the player?
Cj hero | Zest
DeaDoXFighting
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada115 Posts
February 08 2012 16:46 GMT
#87
Sounds exciting can´t wait to see how MYM.XLorD will perform!!
Go Liquid Hero !!!!!
InfusedTT.DaZe
Profile Joined August 2010
Romania693 Posts
February 08 2012 16:52 GMT
#88
Hi, wanted to say that the tlpd for ilusion is wrong, that is the illusion from ogs!
gogo europe!
"Echoes of past events nudge the tiller on my present course, I await its reflection in the future"
Timmeh_Anderson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany37 Posts
February 08 2012 17:13 GMT
#89
wow illusion such a good player.... NOT

User was warned for this post
MVTaylor
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2893 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 18:12:17
February 08 2012 17:14 GMT
#90
illusion is the first player eliminated from IEM Sao Paulo while darkforce gets through 2-1. Boom, pretty happy given my earlier post in the thread.

I think that's why people, and not just germans, get a bit annoyed, the amount of hype attached to players based on what is effectively one week of decent results in online matches.
@followMVT
Timmeh_Anderson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany37 Posts
February 08 2012 18:15 GMT
#91
DF boom, headshot =)
TRAP[yoo]
Profile Joined December 2009
Hungary6026 Posts
February 08 2012 18:26 GMT
#92
nice darkforce! now its time for xlord to do the same
FTD
Thombur
Profile Joined January 2012
95 Posts
February 08 2012 18:31 GMT
#93
On February 09 2012 02:14 mvtaylor wrote:
illusion is the first player eliminated from IEM Sao Paulo while darkforce gets through 2-1. Boom, pretty happy given my earlier post in the thread.

I think that's why people, and not just germans, get a bit annoyed, the amount of hype attached to players based on what is effectively one week of decent results in online matches.

I think a lot of the hype around Illusion is based upon the fact that his playstyle is incredibly fun to watch. I love it at least. Add in that he is pretty good at such a young age and I think he will become a truely great player even if he doesn't have the experience it would require to win LAN events yet.
Corsica
Profile Joined February 2011
Ukraine1854 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 18:42:23
February 08 2012 18:42 GMT
#94
lol bias of writers totally wrong, expect supernova... which only toddler would fail to predict.
Beastyqt
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Serbia516 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 18:45:47
February 08 2012 18:45 GMT
#95
I dont think Illusion deserves hate for people hyping him its not really his fault, casters in general try to hype new players after winning one bo3..too much in my opinion.

Illusion is very good for 15 year old player, I have no doubt if he keeps playing that he will be top top player in 12-18 months, but people that hype him are doing more hurt than good (like in this thread people flaming him and calling him bad after so much hype because people expect too much from him).

I watched his games today first time and he plays very risky in TvZ, not getting tank until 14minute and siege mode until 15min will get destroyed many times with just 2 base baneling bust allins or infestor plays. His micro and macro are good, but (no offence to him or his fans) he is not top player and he probably knows it since he's a smart guy. He isnt far away from it either, but like I said if he keeps practising he will slay some nerds very soon, he should work on his builds mostly since his understanding of the TvZ seems better than his builds in it.
Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/Beastyqt YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/beastyqtsc2
MVTaylor
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2893 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 19:00:55
February 08 2012 18:58 GMT
#96
On February 09 2012 03:45 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
I dont think Illusion deserves hate for people hyping him its not really his fault, casters in general try to hype new players after winning one bo3..too much in my opinion.

Illusion is very good for 15 year old player, I have no doubt if he keeps playing that he will be top top player in 12-18 months, but people that hype him are doing more hurt than good (like in this thread people flaming him and calling him bad after so much hype because people expect too much from him).

I watched his games today first time and he plays very risky in TvZ, not getting tank until 14minute and siege mode until 15min will get destroyed many times with just 2 base baneling bust allins or infestor plays. His micro and macro are good, but (no offence to him or his fans) he is not top player and he probably knows it since he's a smart guy. He isnt far away from it either, but like I said if he keeps practising he will slay some nerds very soon, he should work on his builds mostly since his understanding of the TvZ seems better than his builds in it.


Oh exactly, I don't think anyone here hates illusion, he does what he has to do and plays as best he can in his own style. I think people dislike the amount of hype that gets put on certain players who have only a handful of games on which to back it up, trimaster, goswser, gatored etc. I'm sure we'll see more from him in the future once he has more lan experience and sc2 experience in general while he isn't trying to juggle school and sc2.
@followMVT
Beastyqt
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Serbia516 Posts
February 08 2012 19:19 GMT
#97
On February 09 2012 03:58 mvtaylor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 03:45 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
I dont think Illusion deserves hate for people hyping him its not really his fault, casters in general try to hype new players after winning one bo3..too much in my opinion.

Illusion is very good for 15 year old player, I have no doubt if he keeps playing that he will be top top player in 12-18 months, but people that hype him are doing more hurt than good (like in this thread people flaming him and calling him bad after so much hype because people expect too much from him).

I watched his games today first time and he plays very risky in TvZ, not getting tank until 14minute and siege mode until 15min will get destroyed many times with just 2 base baneling bust allins or infestor plays. His micro and macro are good, but (no offence to him or his fans) he is not top player and he probably knows it since he's a smart guy. He isnt far away from it either, but like I said if he keeps practising he will slay some nerds very soon, he should work on his builds mostly since his understanding of the TvZ seems better than his builds in it.


Oh exactly, I don't think anyone here hates illusion, he does what he has to do and plays as best he can in his own style. I think people dislike the amount of hype that gets put on certain players who have only a handful of games on which to back it up, trimaster, goswser, gatored etc. I'm sure we'll see more from him in the future once he has more lan experience and sc2 experience in general while he isn't trying to juggle school and sc2.


I know I hate the hyping after one tournament or one series as well
Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/Beastyqt YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/beastyqtsc2
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 20:23:22
February 08 2012 20:19 GMT
#98
On February 09 2012 02:14 mvtaylor wrote:
illusion is the first player eliminated from IEM Sao Paulo while darkforce gets through 2-1. Boom, pretty happy given my earlier post in the thread.

I think that's why people, and not just germans, get a bit annoyed, the amount of hype attached to players based on what is effectively one week of decent results in online matches.

Lets bet on this. I think Illusion will win a major tournament before DarKFoRcE does, and you seem to disagree. Name your terms.

On February 09 2012 01:37 OrbitalPlane wrote:
Well i was not complaining about the prediction,(even so i don't agree with it). Everyone can has his own opinion about that and it's fine to discuss it, too. And the predictions are predictions so they obviously don't always have to come true. no problem with that...

What was not appropriate imho is to present a player as boring and with a poorly researched introduction. I just don't like the picture that is drawn by that. A lot of people who don't know darkforce as well as the european scene might get a completely wrong picture of him.
If there are several writers anyways, why not let find a writer for the notes who can actually find a positive word of the player?

Name a single thing in my short paragraph on DarKFoRcE that was incorrect, or evidence of poor research. Moreover, my paragraph was plenty positive about DF. Did you read the part where I said he was the second best known in the group, that he was the second most likely to advance?

Or did you not read the paragraph at all? O_o

I recognize that DF wins a lot of games, but I personally (I think it's abundantly clear that my opinion there was a personal value judgement) think his style is dull, and that he doesn't have the massive upside I see in players like Illusion. I tend to sometimes overvalue a player's potential at the cost of their current form, but I'll stand by my analysis here any day.

On February 09 2012 04:19 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 03:58 mvtaylor wrote:
On February 09 2012 03:45 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
I dont think Illusion deserves hate for people hyping him its not really his fault, casters in general try to hype new players after winning one bo3..too much in my opinion.

Illusion is very good for 15 year old player, I have no doubt if he keeps playing that he will be top top player in 12-18 months, but people that hype him are doing more hurt than good (like in this thread people flaming him and calling him bad after so much hype because people expect too much from him).

I watched his games today first time and he plays very risky in TvZ, not getting tank until 14minute and siege mode until 15min will get destroyed many times with just 2 base baneling bust allins or infestor plays. His micro and macro are good, but (no offence to him or his fans) he is not top player and he probably knows it since he's a smart guy. He isnt far away from it either, but like I said if he keeps practising he will slay some nerds very soon, he should work on his builds mostly since his understanding of the TvZ seems better than his builds in it.


Oh exactly, I don't think anyone here hates illusion, he does what he has to do and plays as best he can in his own style. I think people dislike the amount of hype that gets put on certain players who have only a handful of games on which to back it up, trimaster, goswser, gatored etc. I'm sure we'll see more from him in the future once he has more lan experience and sc2 experience in general while he isn't trying to juggle school and sc2.


I know I hate the hyping after one tournament or one series as well

Beasty top three foreign terran?
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
StarGalaxy
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany744 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 21:27:22
February 08 2012 20:55 GMT
#99
i actually don't want to be too narrow-minded, the rest of the write up was pretty good but since you asked here are your answers:

Name a single thing in my short paragraph on DarKFoRcE that was incorrect, or evidence of poor research.

I already did on page 1, but here again special for you:
lack of stellar major tournament results is not true
and DarKFoRcE's best result yet was his defeat of aLive in the NASL Season 1 finals is arguably wrong too.
he has put up quite decent good results in a lot of big tournaments
just some examples:
He beat several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on the GeForce tournament and placing 3rd
did well at WCG, beating MKP and getting out of the group
at both NASL, first placing as the highest foreigner, second one going to the playoffs

Yet it's hard to acknowledge that it does achieve above-average results.
This sounds very weird to me. what is average results? and what is above-average results? Sounds to me like not very extraordinary.

Moreover, my paragraph was plenty positive about DF.

the only really positive thing i can find is that he is funny.

Did you read the part where I said he was the second best known in the group

yes i did, that's more a fact than a positive statement

that he was the second most likely to advance?
Your prediction was 0:3 so sorry that i don't buy that...

Or did you not read the paragraph at all? O_o

i actually did, but it seems you did not read my post on page 1.

I recognize that DF wins a lot of games, but I personally (I think it's abundantly clear that my opinion there was a personal value judgement) think his style is dull, and that he doesn't have the massive upside I see in players like Illusion. I tend to sometimes overvalue a player's potential at the cost of their current form, but I'll stand by my analysis here any day.


I just don't think its the right place to criticize a player. I don't mind if you post it somewhere else but not in the presentation of a player. But that's just my opinion maybe i am the only one who is bothered by that.

the prediction is fine fore me. even so a lot of people might disagree thats your good right to say so.
(But if you make such a ballsy prediction you should not be surprised if other people have a different opinion. even so here were quite some unfair flames about it tbh)

EDIT: Beastyqt Illusion showmatch?
i would have to bet on beasty so. :D
Cj hero | Zest
Timmeh_Anderson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany37 Posts
February 08 2012 21:08 GMT
#100
i would make my bets on beasty too.
MVTaylor
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2893 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 21:29:04
February 08 2012 21:26 GMT
#101
On February 09 2012 05:19 tree.hugger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 02:14 mvtaylor wrote:
illusion is the first player eliminated from IEM Sao Paulo while darkforce gets through 2-1. Boom, pretty happy given my earlier post in the thread.

I think that's why people, and not just germans, get a bit annoyed, the amount of hype attached to players based on what is effectively one week of decent results in online matches.

Lets bet on this. I think Illusion will win a major tournament before DarKFoRcE does, and you seem to disagree. Name your terms.


What an utterly ridiculous comment given the massive number of variables involved, but to humour you...$20?

I'm only a student so take it or leave it, it's an amazingly fantastic bet for you.
@followMVT
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 22:21:57
February 08 2012 22:10 GMT
#102
On February 09 2012 05:55 OrbitalPlane wrote:
i actually don't want to be too narrow-minded, the rest of the write up was pretty good but since you asked here are your answers:

Show nested quote +
Name a single thing in my short paragraph on DarKFoRcE that was incorrect, or evidence of poor research.

I already did on page 1, but here again special for you:
lack of stellar major tournament results is not true
and DarKFoRcE's best result yet was his defeat of aLive in the NASL Season 1 finals is arguably wrong too.
he has put up quite decent good results in a lot of big tournaments
just some examples:
He beat several of the best foreigners and best koreans out there on the GeForce tournament and placing 3rd
did well at WCG, beating MKP and getting out of the group
at both NASL, first placing as the highest foreigner, second one going to the playoffs

Yet it's hard to acknowledge that it does achieve above-average results.
This sounds very weird to me. what is average results? and what is above-average results? Sounds to me like not very extraordinary.
You're totally mincing words. DarKFoRcE's results aren't 'stellar', that's a word I'd describe for people who've won things. Above average, is a phrase I'd use to describe players like DarKFoRcE who have a few good finishes, but have never really threatened to win a tournament. I don't count a Bo1 defeat of MKP as better than a Bo3 defeat of aLive. You're right, GeForce was a good tournament for him, but he never beat anyone the calibre of aLive in that event, and online events six months ago with the KR-AM server lag don't really mean much when we're talking about live events right now.

On February 09 2012 05:55 OrbitalPlane wrote:
Show nested quote +
Moreover, my paragraph was plenty positive about DF.

the only really positive thing i can find is that he is funny.

Show nested quote +
Did you read the part where I said he was the second best known in the group

yes i did, that's more a fact than a positive statement

Show nested quote +
that he was the second most likely to advance?
Your prediction was 0:3 so sorry that i don't buy that...

Show nested quote +
Or did you not read the paragraph at all? O_o

i actually did, but it seems you did not read my post on page 1.
I read your post on Page 1, but it was 100% opinion and no facts to back it up. In this post, I explained exactly why I think DarKFoRcE's NASL Bo3 win over aLive was his best result yet, you're entitled to disagree, of course, but you have never proved anything to be wrong or poorly researched. I can't go over the entire life story of every player, I pick and choose the results that I think are most important. Second, since when did a positive statement not count as something positive? And third, my prediction was what I wrote in the article, did you choose to ignore what was written at the end because you were mesmerized by the random numbers at the end? The numbers at the end are guesses about something that it's impossible to be precise for. I'd prefer you put more weight into the actual analysis.

On February 09 2012 05:55 OrbitalPlane wrote:
Show nested quote +
I recognize that DF wins a lot of games, but I personally (I think it's abundantly clear that my opinion there was a personal value judgement) think his style is dull, and that he doesn't have the massive upside I see in players like Illusion. I tend to sometimes overvalue a player's potential at the cost of their current form, but I'll stand by my analysis here any day.


I just don't think its the right place to criticize a player. I don't mind if you post it somewhere else but not in the presentation of a player. But that's just my opinion maybe i am the only one who is bothered by that.

the prediction is fine fore me. even so a lot of people might disagree thats your good right to say so.
(But if you make such a ballsy prediction you should not be surprised if other people have a different opinion. even so here were quite some unfair flames about it tbh)

EDIT: Beastyqt Illusion showmatch?
i would have to bet on beasty so. :D


I have to be honest, it annoys me when people don't read anything and just look at the numbers and then say dumb things about it. You clearly read what I wrote, but other people don't. I recognize that you're a fan of DarKFoRcE, and that obviously you disagree with my assessment. That's just the way it is. But don't call me out for being factually incorrect, when I'm not being factually incorrect, and don't try to interpret obvious opinion as fact and then try to pin me to it. Please.




On February 09 2012 06:26 mvtaylor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 05:19 tree.hugger wrote:
On February 09 2012 02:14 mvtaylor wrote:
illusion is the first player eliminated from IEM Sao Paulo while darkforce gets through 2-1. Boom, pretty happy given my earlier post in the thread.

I think that's why people, and not just germans, get a bit annoyed, the amount of hype attached to players based on what is effectively one week of decent results in online matches.

Lets bet on this. I think Illusion will win a major tournament before DarKFoRcE does, and you seem to disagree. Name your terms.


What an utterly ridiculous comment given the massive number of variables involved, but to humour you...$20?

I'm only a student so take it or leave it, it's an amazingly fantastic bet for you.
If you don't actually believe in what you seemed to be arguing, than there's no point in making a bet on it. If you think I misunderstood what you mean by being annoyed by hype [and preferring an established player; i.e. DarKFoRcE is better than Illusion] than please state what you mean more clearly and we can discuss it.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
Timmeh_Anderson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany37 Posts
February 08 2012 22:17 GMT
#103
so i guess winning a BO5 against startale_ace in geforce cup is not noticable for you too?
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
February 08 2012 22:41 GMT
#104
On February 09 2012 07:17 Timmeh_Anderson wrote:
so i guess winning a BO5 against startale_ace in geforce cup is not noticable for you too?

I can't do this anymore. T_T
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
Beastyqt
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Serbia516 Posts
February 08 2012 23:12 GMT
#105
On February 09 2012 05:19 tree.hugger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 02:14 mvtaylor wrote:
illusion is the first player eliminated from IEM Sao Paulo while darkforce gets through 2-1. Boom, pretty happy given my earlier post in the thread.

I think that's why people, and not just germans, get a bit annoyed, the amount of hype attached to players based on what is effectively one week of decent results in online matches.

Lets bet on this. I think Illusion will win a major tournament before DarKFoRcE does, and you seem to disagree. Name your terms.

Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 01:37 OrbitalPlane wrote:
Well i was not complaining about the prediction,(even so i don't agree with it). Everyone can has his own opinion about that and it's fine to discuss it, too. And the predictions are predictions so they obviously don't always have to come true. no problem with that...

What was not appropriate imho is to present a player as boring and with a poorly researched introduction. I just don't like the picture that is drawn by that. A lot of people who don't know darkforce as well as the european scene might get a completely wrong picture of him.
If there are several writers anyways, why not let find a writer for the notes who can actually find a positive word of the player?

Name a single thing in my short paragraph on DarKFoRcE that was incorrect, or evidence of poor research. Moreover, my paragraph was plenty positive about DF. Did you read the part where I said he was the second best known in the group, that he was the second most likely to advance?

Or did you not read the paragraph at all? O_o

I recognize that DF wins a lot of games, but I personally (I think it's abundantly clear that my opinion there was a personal value judgement) think his style is dull, and that he doesn't have the massive upside I see in players like Illusion. I tend to sometimes overvalue a player's potential at the cost of their current form, but I'll stand by my analysis here any day.

Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 04:19 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
On February 09 2012 03:58 mvtaylor wrote:
On February 09 2012 03:45 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
I dont think Illusion deserves hate for people hyping him its not really his fault, casters in general try to hype new players after winning one bo3..too much in my opinion.

Illusion is very good for 15 year old player, I have no doubt if he keeps playing that he will be top top player in 12-18 months, but people that hype him are doing more hurt than good (like in this thread people flaming him and calling him bad after so much hype because people expect too much from him).

I watched his games today first time and he plays very risky in TvZ, not getting tank until 14minute and siege mode until 15min will get destroyed many times with just 2 base baneling bust allins or infestor plays. His micro and macro are good, but (no offence to him or his fans) he is not top player and he probably knows it since he's a smart guy. He isnt far away from it either, but like I said if he keeps practising he will slay some nerds very soon, he should work on his builds mostly since his understanding of the TvZ seems better than his builds in it.


Oh exactly, I don't think anyone here hates illusion, he does what he has to do and plays as best he can in his own style. I think people dislike the amount of hype that gets put on certain players who have only a handful of games on which to back it up, trimaster, goswser, gatored etc. I'm sure we'll see more from him in the future once he has more lan experience and sc2 experience in general while he isn't trying to juggle school and sc2.


I know I hate the hyping after one tournament or one series as well

Beasty top three foreign terran?


Not sure what you mean with that last thing, I was saying hype from casters, predictions arent hyping someone
Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/Beastyqt YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/beastyqtsc2
MVTaylor
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2893 Posts
February 08 2012 23:25 GMT
#106
On February 09 2012 07:10 tree.hugger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 09 2012 06:26 mvtaylor wrote:
On February 09 2012 05:19 tree.hugger wrote:
On February 09 2012 02:14 mvtaylor wrote:
illusion is the first player eliminated from IEM Sao Paulo while darkforce gets through 2-1. Boom, pretty happy given my earlier post in the thread.

I think that's why people, and not just germans, get a bit annoyed, the amount of hype attached to players based on what is effectively one week of decent results in online matches.

Lets bet on this. I think Illusion will win a major tournament before DarKFoRcE does, and you seem to disagree. Name your terms.


What an utterly ridiculous comment given the massive number of variables involved, but to humour you...$20?

I'm only a student so take it or leave it, it's an amazingly fantastic bet for you.
If you don't actually believe in what you seemed to be arguing, than there's no point in making a bet on it. If you think I misunderstood what you mean by being annoyed by hype [and preferring an established player; i.e. DarKFoRcE is better than Illusion] than please state what you mean more clearly and we can discuss it.


Right, I would argue that looking at their previous form that Darkforce is a better track player right now, illusion has had four notable achievements... Qualifying for this event with a 3-0 over demu in the process, Beating Lucky and Choya in online bo1s cross server, Coming "second" at ONOG and finishing 24th at MLG Providence.

However this was his first ever LAN tournament not in the US and as I said he can't be comfortable about it if in the interview with Bitter he says he doesn't tell people what he's doing when he competes in LANs. You could see he was nervous, in the final game he played against KiLLeR he just let his marines stand there while banelings rolled in to them in the middle of the map off creep then forgot to gg, for someone who has shown great micro and marine splitting that sort of shows he wasn't 100%. Darkforce on the other hand doesn't have these nerve issues, he played as well as he usually does at LANs and that's pretty okay considering he can beat MKP in Korea, get to the ro8 at NASL1 etc.

Now, illusion does have more POTENTIAL than darkforce. He's far younger, hasn't even played Terran until season 2 of ladder etc but he doesn't have a track record or much lan experience, zero foreign lan experience before this.

So, once he's got a bit more of that, overcome some nerves and such then I think he will be able to pull out better results than darkforce, but it takes a pretty special sort of person that can do that at their first foreign lan based off of four "achievements". Hype is good at getting players noticed and showing who are ones to look out for but you need to keep things in perspective for a 15 year old kid going to his first foreign event.

In six months, darkforce will probably be in the same sort of place he is now but the future looks far brighter for illusion.
@followMVT
Elem
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden4717 Posts
February 09 2012 00:31 GMT
#107
On February 09 2012 07:17 Timmeh_Anderson wrote:
so i guess winning a BO5 against startale_ace in geforce cup is not noticable for you too?
It's not.
#freeshauni
Kiwiandapple
Profile Joined March 2011
Belgium240 Posts
February 09 2012 00:38 GMT
#108
On February 08 2012 15:18 devPLEASE wrote:
When did Illusion leave oGs and join Vile?


wrong illusion
Don't worry, that's halo!
Kiwiandapple
Profile Joined March 2011
Belgium240 Posts
February 09 2012 00:45 GMT
#109
On February 09 2012 03:45 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:
I dont think Illusion deserves hate for people hyping him its not really his fault, casters in general try to hype new players after winning one bo3..too much in my opinion.

Illusion is very good for 15 year old player, I have no doubt if he keeps playing that he will be top top player in 12-18 months, but people that hype him are doing more hurt than good (like in this thread people flaming him and calling him bad after so much hype because people expect too much from him).

I watched his games today first time and he plays very risky in TvZ, not getting tank until 14minute and siege mode until 15min will get destroyed many times with just 2 base baneling bust allins or infestor plays. His micro and macro are good, but (no offence to him or his fans) he is not top player and he probably knows it since he's a smart guy. He isnt far away from it either, but like I said if he keeps practising he will slay some nerds very soon, he should work on his builds mostly since his understanding of the TvZ seems better than his builds in it.


I know illusion for pretty much a year now - he used to play zerg in season 1/2 so his tvz always has been a strong part, because his micro is pretty darn good - he doesnt like tanks, he feels to immobile with them and prefers to not use them, or well he just doesn't make them early on. thats why he rather gets some helions and marines and micro's the hell out off it. he aswell has been baneling busted alot and practiced alot against it, he holds alot of baneling busts pretty well. unless he fails to read them, wich he hardly does because he is quite the aggressor. i do completely agree on you tho, he has alot of things to work on. but, he is working on it - and the hype around him is aswell something thats just happening. he is young, played good online in IPL, beated demuslim 3-0 to qualify for this IEM. enough reason to hype him. sadly he lost both his tvz's 2-1. but, funny enough if he managed to win those, and advance everybody would praise him - sadly enough thats how the world is.

Just indeed, look for him in about 12 months.
Don't worry, that's halo!
Fatze
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Germany1342 Posts
February 09 2012 02:11 GMT
#110
awesome article!
Comfort from bottles, cheers from beers the guitars are our weapons and we know how to kill!
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