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SQ Leaderboard by Region - Page 17

Forum Index > News
393 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 15 16 17 18 19 20 Next All
ikona
Profile Joined February 2011
Poland47 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-30 11:27:14
October 30 2011 11:21 GMT
#321
Doesnt such small sample size defeat the purplse of this analisys though?

I mean you can get different sets of last 30 games from the same player that provide wildly different results all day.

So what is this data for exactly?
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
October 30 2011 11:36 GMT
#322
On October 30 2011 20:21 ikona wrote:
Doesnt such small sample size defeat the purplse of this analisys though?

I mean you can get different sets of last 30 games from the same player that provide wildly different results all day.

So what is this data for exactly?



For entertainment. Why so negative?

I really enjoy the idea of your project and it's an entertaining read overall.

ArhK
Profile Joined July 2007
France287 Posts
October 30 2011 12:09 GMT
#323
Impressive article. A huge thanks to you, your study is pretty interesting, and the layout of your article makes it very enjoyable to read.

I can't wait for the Korean Ladder analysis, keep it up !
Myrddraal
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia937 Posts
October 30 2011 12:09 GMT
#324
Oh I forgot to mention I am very keen for the other regions, any chance there would be a comparison with the leagues other than GM? Because as a player who plays on both SEA and NA I find it interesting that SEA seems harder around the platinum - diamond level while it is quite clear that NA has better players at the top level. The reasons for this aren't difficult to figure out, but it would be interesting to find out how the lower levels stack up.
[stranded]: http://www.indiedb.com/games/stranded
perestain
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany308 Posts
October 30 2011 12:46 GMT
#325
On October 29 2011 10:54 whatthefat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2011 10:50 MonkSEA wrote:
I think the warpgate mechanic might actually be hindering Protoss' SQ, but very nice read. I'm pretty surprised at Bombers SQ and Ret's as well.

That is what I suspect. Either that or something to do with the types of builds, e.g., it is beneficial to build multiple gateways all at once to sync up with warpgate research, meaning you have to temporarily float money. But I can't conclude that without more data.



As day9 pointed out on several occasions, if you start to float money which you need for your next warpin cycle, you should not instead buy structures you cannot really afford yet, since it will result in worse macro. Otherwise, by the time your warpin cycle comes you dont have enough money for units, and more structures than you can support.

This is a common macro error for protoss, and it will boost the SQ. Average unspent money will be lower if you instantly buy another gateway as soon as you have the money, and sq is not measuring your supply whatsoever.

But while this might be an explanation why lower level players can get relatively high SQ sometimes I doubt that this will be an explanation for differences at the pro level, where all the builds are usually more refined..

I'd rather suspect the latter possibility you mentioned, that for protoss, consistent builds tend to sacrifice spending efficiency for some reason.
No matter how hot it gets, sooner or later there's a cool breeze coming in.
Crosswind
Profile Joined May 2010
United States279 Posts
October 30 2011 13:30 GMT
#326
Not sure anybody has pointed it out, but what happens if you take the PVP games out of it?

PVP is exclusively 1-base. Your spending quotient will therefore suck. In PvZ and PvT games, is pros' spending quotient comparable?

-Cross
stoned_rabbit
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States324 Posts
October 30 2011 14:47 GMT
#327
On October 30 2011 22:30 Crosswind wrote:
Not sure anybody has pointed it out, but what happens if you take the PVP games out of it?

PVP is exclusively 1-base. Your spending quotient will therefore suck. In PvZ and PvT games, is pros' spending quotient comparable?

-Cross


SQ would actually be higher in that case because the games are short and on 1-base, making it "easier" to spend all your money (more likely just because the builds are mapped out better than in say 30 minute 6 base games, no getting maxed, etc.)

Also, theoretically it would be possible to account for the differences in macro mechanics between races but the analysis would be quite computationally expensive and a real pain in the ass. Not sure if it'd be possible.
Strausticles
Profile Joined April 2011
United States113 Posts
October 30 2011 16:05 GMT
#328
This was a great write up. Thanks so much for the read.
"Don't forget one of the best counters in Starcraft, is to just go kill your opponent!" - Day[9]
MotorDouglas
Profile Joined March 2011
Brazil66 Posts
October 30 2011 16:34 GMT
#329
TL, Y U no make one for the Latin America ladder?
i can't come up with something witty to put here (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
SoleSteeler
Profile Joined April 2003
Canada5472 Posts
October 30 2011 16:37 GMT
#330
On October 31 2011 01:34 MotorDouglas wrote:
TL, Y U no make one for the Latin America ladder?


It's combined into one "Americas" server with North and South America.
InsidiA
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Canada1169 Posts
October 30 2011 17:37 GMT
#331
DeMu out macro-ing Bomber :o
GraphicsInsidiA | StarCraft 2 Manager for Team eLevate | Graphic Designer for Red Bull eSports & HTC | @iamjasonpun
hobosrus
Profile Joined June 2011
United States99 Posts
October 30 2011 18:05 GMT
#332
impressive as always!
There is obviously a huge racial imbalance in the global starleague. Just take a look at the code s roster: Korean Korean Korean Canadian Korean...
Letitz
Profile Joined May 2011
France80 Posts
October 30 2011 18:38 GMT
#333
Gratz, really great OP!
I am but mad north-north-west
Eviscerate Core
Profile Joined February 2011
United States36 Posts
October 30 2011 22:04 GMT
#334
Great article, I learned a lot. It's fun to see the pros compared in different ways.

I agree with what some have said, I think the warp-in mechanic will have inherently lower SQ for Protoss because the unspent resources will be higher in-between warp-ins. I'm sure that's something you'll look into.
KurtSib
Profile Joined June 2011
United States4 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-30 22:38:24
October 30 2011 22:27 GMT
#335
Why no t-values?

I'm not totally versed in stats. My major, bio, mostly flirts with them. Still, I wonder why did you choose exclusively two-tailed t-tests?

As I say, I'm far from expert, so take my questions as questions if you take them at all.
nanaoei
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
3358 Posts
October 30 2011 22:38 GMT
#336
this is amazing yet again

i imagine SQ numbers can really depend the player's style however... the builds, and mistakes in small lapses where someone macros poorly for a couple minutes.
i woould personally like to see average game length also! and maybe the matchups at some point in time
*@boesthius' FF7 nostalgia stream bomb* "we should work on a 'Final Progamer' fangame»whitera can be a protagonist---lastlie: "we save world and then defense it"
MasterChingChong
Profile Joined April 2010
United States13 Posts
October 30 2011 22:59 GMT
#337
One of the most interesting TL posts i've read in sooooo long, especially since it's incorporates what i've learned in my stats class :D:D

good job! would really like to see data for other servers particularly the korean server
Ireniicus
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom374 Posts
October 30 2011 23:36 GMT
#338
excellent. thank you for all the work in pulling together this excellent and intriguing analysis.
Ghostface_Killa
Profile Joined March 2011
United States168 Posts
October 30 2011 23:36 GMT
#339
Awesome write-up, very impressive.

If I may, you shouldn't compare players of different races to each other because because each race's economies function too differently. For example, a Protoss with 10 gateways late game is always going to float a lot of money between warp ins whereas Terran's barracks should be constantly queued, thus keeping their money consitently low. You'll notice this reason might explain why the Protoss in your study are scoring lower than the others.
Arrested for what, baby? Being awesome?
VeniVidiViciW
Profile Joined October 2011
Netherlands20 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-30 23:46:45
October 30 2011 23:45 GMT
#340
very nice, and also interested in more comparisons, for example korea yes.

Btw, while we all know some just abuse apm, even on top level there are the so called useless clicks, do you think there is some way to link apm in 'real' battles to some sort of overall performance, and perhaps as some kind of minor indicator?

and i agree with the post just before me, i think you cant just compare races crosswise, since different ways of spending apply.
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