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On June 04 2011 02:22 MrCon wrote:
I agree that GSL could find a seed system to avoid some Nestea Bomber or Alicia MC situations, and at the same time including rising talents like DRG in the system faster.
But to elaborate such a system with any arbitrary decision involved is extremely hard. In fact, I'm not even sure it is possible.
How could DRG even stand a chance of entering if he hasn't ever managed to qualify to code A? Unless they just invite you, but then there's other players like Yonghwa on the same skill level that would also have to be invited.
Yeah, I dont think it's possible  A shame tho. They just need to stop screwing up on their qualifiers.
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On June 04 2011 02:27 Rayansaki wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 02:22 MrCon wrote:
I agree that GSL could find a seed system to avoid some Nestea Bomber or Alicia MC situations, and at the same time including rising talents like DRG in the system faster.
But to elaborate such a system with any arbitrary decision involved is extremely hard. In fact, I'm not even sure it is possible. How could DRG even stand a chance of entering if he hasn't ever managed to qualify to code A? Unless they just invite you, but then there's other players like Yonghwa on the same skill level that would also have to be invited. Yeah, I dont think it's possible A shame tho. They just need to stop screwing up on their qualifiers.
Yeah that's exactly what I'm saying.
The OP says that GOM should find a way to replace players like anypro or junwi or other bad players with new talents like DRG faster. I said that it's impossible in a fair system. (but perhaps they can find ways to speed up the process a little, like awarding points for GSTL wins like suggested in OP, like DRG defeats check he gets 10 GSL rank point, but if he defeats MKP he gets 100 or something like that)
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Nice read, but there is a small mistake (maybe it has been mentioned already but I haven't read all posts). In the coca vs nada game you call coca junwi, maybe you could edit it.
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the seed was fair.
i prefer a seeding based in points, than a seed made by subjective and biased opinions.
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This game really demonstrated how far Starcraft 2 is from reaching truly high level play.
This is starting to get annoying. Are you saying all the BW games are good? I read not long ago about a game where a pro player knew lurkers were coming and did terrible decisions like not get detection. Players, in every game, perform badly. Whether the game has been out 1, 10 or hundreds of years, there are bad performances and yes it sucks but can you not take every opportunity you have to hate on SC2?
Seriously BW play level is very high and terrible games happen all the time. Come on.
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I see you didn't notice the switch in the brackets? Or actually, one of you did and one didn't. Please cover sC - Hyperdub and the other game that misses.
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Very good read, you guys make Starcraft news enjoyable :D
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killer-bomber appears to be there twice, spoiler brackets C and D
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Funny, minimalist approach to the game summaries. Thanks for summarizing, what, about 80 games into that small a space. Must be hard to do.
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some of the matches are repeated in multiple groups or have inconsistent information (different player names, or races)
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I can't help but agree that the GSL tier system is pretty terrible, but I don't think it's because it can't work. I think they just jumped the gun way too early, 3 months to somehow weed out the ranks is absurd to say the least.
They might have been pressured by fans and players who weren't completely wrong that the qualification process was fairly brutal and possibly a cointoss for some players. Seeing for instance a top 8 player get eliminated before a single televised match is pretty brutal... However seeing the volatile state of the game, they should have seriously limited the amount of seeds for people who get to a code S seat or get to keep their seats after every season.
However I don't fault GOM or it's structure all that much, since had they not created such a structure we would just be complaining that the games were bad for some other reason. (Luck in the qualifiers, random effects of seeding... etc... etc...)
Code S finals I mostly just blame the players. It's not like they like time or motivation to make it a good game even if it isn't the best players.
All IMHO
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I absolutely love how you guys made buttons for the 4 groups! Thanks for this awesome writeup
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I get the feeling that you're more against GSL than you are for it. =/
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pfft. best terran in the world bomber? u gotta be kidding me, he only won one bo7 vs mvp--he hasnt accomplished much. Mvp is still best yo.
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Your perspective of TvT and tank use is very ignorant. The uses/ abuses of the tank have not even been fully explored in TvT. Its not as plain and simple as Turtle and wait.
Personally i build very few vikings in TvT. Rather I mech, and with all the extra minerals i spam orbitals for scans. the relocation of gas to tanks and thors results in a bigger ground army with better upgrades most of the time. I often move my hellions forward in a spread to tank shots while my Tanks move up and siege. I also employ nukes that force unsieges. TvT can be more active it just takes more actions. By constantly pushing the tank lines back you can expand more and prevent you opponent from expanding himself.
Your example was just a !@#$ game.
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I completely agree, the disappointing format of the GSL tournaments really suck. Since the first open season it's just been getting more and more lackluster.
But wow, I didn't know people still cried about tanks? That's more laughable than most of the super tournament games.
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"It's the Seeding, Stupid" didn't add up for me.
It's one thing to have a round of 32 featuring Keen and jookTo, or HongUn and Revival. But this week, two of the most exciting terrans in the world went home, as MMA played SuperNova, and MVP played GanZi. Only one of four of the best terrans in the world will make the super tournament round of 16. And most bizarre of all, the super tournament's second round presented a choice between either the best zerg in the world in NesTea, or the world's best terran in Bomber. That's a match-up that blows every single GSL final out of the water any day of the week, and yet we saw it in the round of 32.
I don't really understand this at all. The point of having a tournament is that we don't know what the results will be in the end.You know that old phrase "that's why they play the game" ? If all we wanted to do is make sure that finals consisted of whoever the author thinks are the best players, then we could just have a show match and save a lot of time and complaining.
So sit back and enjoy the replays of NesTea against Bomber, MVP and GanZi, and SuperNoVa and MMA. Chances are, it'll be the toughest match either of these players have on their way to the championship.
This too. If the tournament is so stacked at the round of 32, then why won't there be good players in future rounds? Does the bench get to play when the tournament is half way over or something? I just don't get it.
Part of the problem is that the writers don't fully advance their arguments and leave a lot to be assumed. I think that it is mainly written for people who already agree or know exactly what you mean, because it doesn't go into much detail. But then sometimes the evidence is weird, like:
For two seasons now, we have seen the final four players in Code A play at a higher level than the final four in Code S. I can't believe I'm making this argument again. Of the top eight Code A players in May, six of eight advanced into the next round.* Of the top eight Code S players in March, five of eight advanced into the next round.* These players are the new generation, the players who are defining the Korean scene in 2011.
One more person from the top 8 of Code A than Code S advanced in this tournament, so the top 4 of Code A are usually better than the top 4 of Code S in any given GSL? What?
*I'm assuming "next round" means of the super tournament just because the article is about the super tournament, but it doesn't really say.
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On June 04 2011 03:35 colloidoscope wrote:
I get the feeling that you're more against GSL than you are for it. =/
He's been a writer for TL for a significant amount of time, meaning he has done and has been involved in a lot more content than most of us, so his standards and expectations are higher than most TLnetizens today. His opinions might rub people the wrong way, but I actually like how this article is written, doesn't try to point to any elephants* and still is very informative and I know where to go if I want to see good games.
*Yes I went there.
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
On June 04 2011 00:53 vnlegend wrote:
Eh these game analysis seem very poorly done. You probably just skimmed through the games.
MMA vs Lyn. MMA had 3, or 4?, hidden sieged tanks above his main army. If you were Lyn, and scanned that army w/o knowing about the 3-4 extra sieged tanks, you would also think you could win that engagement.
MVP/Bomber vs Protoss on Taldarim altar. Clearly these top 2 terrans felt that they can't match Protosses' late game army. They said over and over again in interviews that if they lose an engagement, their army would be wiped out by Protoss's warp-ins. Creator's endgame army wiped the floor with MVP's just 1 game earlier. This is the reason both of them played so defensively and looked for the Protoss to make mistakes. The P's meanwhile were too scared or too behind to attack so it was a stalemate situation. MVP preyed upon Creator's mistakes by attacking him simultaneously everywhere, while Bomber eventually won by capitalizing on Killer's tactical mistakes.
There should be a better system to replace the old-guard in Code S but if they win during up/down and the better Code A players lose, who's to blame?
Yeah, I don't want to be overly critical but it seems like the GSL coverage on TL lately is really... lackluster. I appreciate that people are willing to volunteer their time to do these write-ups (as much time as it takes to write two sentences about a game, anyway) and it's not ALL bad (the strategy of the week was a good read, and I thought treehugger's editorial about the GSL system was very well said) but a lot of the game summaries say so little that I wonder why anyone bothered writing anything at all. It would be nice if there was a little more analysis or at least enthusiasm.
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Haha you summed up my thoughts about siege tanks perfectly.
+ Show Spoiler +With their ridiculous range, incredible single shot damage, absurd splash radius, and total lack of micro or attention required, tanks are stupidly overpowered mistake-punishing machines.
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EPT
