|
[GSL] “No Repeats” - Ro8 and Ro4 Recaps
December 13th, 2010 08:14 GMT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/pachi/banner/10gsl3_banner.png) Banner by pachi. Screenshots from the GSL Round of 8 and Round of 4.
“Yes, Executor”
GSL Season 3 Round of 8 Recap
By Xxio
and
“All Good Things...”
GSL Season 3 Round of 4 Recap
By True Redemption
The quarter finals and semi finals are over. In only a few short days the finals will be starting in Incheon. To get both hyped and informed on the finalists, read their recaps and grades - you might be surprised by how they got there! Of course, in addition to TSL-Rain and oGsMC's there are 11 other top level games from the round of 16 for you to check out. Happy reading 
Links and Resources:
GSL Game/Series Rating Scale
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/images/blackstar.png) - The kind of game that'll still be referenced in a year. Incredible play from both players in all aspects of the game. Must watch now.
- Excellent play demonstrated by at least one of the players, and very likely both. A must watch.
- A good game, but nothing truly special. Often not competitive, or with some mistakes. Worth watching if you have the time.
- A below-average game. Not worth watching unless you're a fan of the winning player.
- Not an entertaining or instructive game. Even if you're a fan of the winner, your time is probably better spent.
No stars - The losing player played so poorly, we presume he's been banned from all future GSL events.
Recommended Series Short List
+ Show Spoiler [Recommended Series] +
Round of 8
 TSL-Rain < 3-2>  IMNesTea -
"Bring The Scvs! Bring Them All!"
Z8 Game 1 - Lost Temple T6
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +NesTea 14 hatched; Rain built his barracks at 12 food, his refinery at 13. Rain followed up with a 1-1-1 build, starting his starport at 22 food. Rain immediately began upgrading siege and went for a Brood War style contain on NesTea's natural, bunker included. NesTea had just started his spire. NesTea took out the bunker but hardly any units as Rain lifted 3 marines and 2 tanks to the cliff. Mutalisks popped and NesTea took out everything on his cliff before any damage was done. NesTea took his gold base at 50 food while harassing with mutalisks. Rain took his expansion with only 3 production facilities while upgrading stim. NesTea continued to harass with his mutalisks, getting +1 air attack and baneling speed. With his natural up and running Rain pushed out, winning the battle in the middle of the map and dropping his surviving units on NesTea's cliff, taking out the hatchery at the natural. 40 supply ahead of his opponent NesTea took another expansion, massed banelings, and went back to harassing with his mutalisks, taking out a couple depots and a factory as Rain took his gold base. Rain pushed out for another attack, but a wave of banelings crushed his marine based army and forced him to type out.
Z1 Game 2 - Steppes of War T7
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +NesTea 14 hatched again while Rain built his first barracks at 12 food and his second at 14. With 2 marines and 12 scvs Rain attacked. NesTea tried tried to hold but 8 zerglings, his drones, and 1 queen were not enough. NesTea gg'd.
Z5 Game 3 - Shakuras Plateau T11
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +For the third time in a row NesTea 14 hatched. Rain opened with a tech lab on his first barracks, upgrading stim as soon as it finished. Rain expanded at 24 food and tried to attack with a handful of marines but a group of speedlings easily cleaned it up. NesTea counterattacked, shutting down mining at Rain's natural and killing many scvs before being pushed out. NesTea kept up the pressure with a huge baneling attack, but little damage was done thanks to great micro from Rain. With a marine ball Rain kept map control and caught a large group of zerglings by a xel'naga watchtower. Banelings flanked in from behind and by the end of the battle only 6 marines were left. With a group of marines and a tank Rain broke down the rocks behind NesTea's 4th, but NesTea responded in time and held the ramp with mutalisks and banelings. NesTea counterattacked at Rain's natural, killing a train of scvs with banelings, putting NesTea ahead by 50 workers. Rain tried to attack NesTea's fourth and expand but he was easily repelled. Rain gg'd as soon as he saw banelings rolling toward his 3rd.
Z1 Game 4 - Blistering Sands T7
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +NesTea opened 14 hatchery 13 pool, Rain double barracks. 2 more barracks started at 25 food as Rain poked into NesTea's natural with 3 marines and 2 scvs. A spine crawler kept Rain at bay but pulling all but 2 scvs Rain pushed right back in. The scvs protected Rain's marines and NesTea had no choice but to gg.
Z7 Game 5 - Xel'Naga Caverns T1
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +Rain opened double barracks, NesTea 14 hatchery, 13 pool. Rain built a bunker just outside of the hatchery's vision, but NesTea scouted it and started a spine crawler and zerglings. Rain bunker hopped forward with 6 marines. The spine crawler brought the forward bunker down to under 50 health but an scv began repairing it and NesTea's spine crawler, in range of the bunker, went down. NesTea held on a bit longer by massing zerglings, even re-expanding and building a banelings nest. As soon as siege finished Rain, on 2 bases, was able to bulldog his way into NesTea's natural and win the game.
Player Grades:
+ Show Spoiler [Show Player Grades] +TSL-Rain - C-Rain tried to play straight up twice, and failed miserably both times. On Lost Temple his micro was not the greatest and his timings were horrible. On Shakuras he got totally dominated. Knowing he couldn't win a standard game he resorted to cheese. And that's how he won. However, NesTea probably enticed him to do it at least a little by going 14 hatch every single game. Rain even gave NesTea the chance to come back in game 5 attacking NesTea's natural over and over again with small groups of units. IMNesTea - BThis series shows that NesTea is clearly better than Rain in decision making, timings, and macro. On Lost Temple Rain made so many mistakes that NesTea only had to capitalize on them to win it. On Shakuras his skill was highlighted a bit more. I was surprised watching him 14 hatch like clockwork after being cheesed so much - not sure what the idea was behind that. If he had just burrowed his spine crawler out of range of the bunker in game 5 he could have won the series
 HongUnPrime.WE < 3-2 > TSL-FruitDealer -
"Zerg Rush Kekeke"
Z1 Game 1 - Steppes of War P7
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +HongUn started with a forge at 13; FruitDealer gas followed by 13 pool. HongUn walled in the bottom of FruitDealer's ramp with 2 pylons and immediately warped in a cannon. At 18 food HongUn built his gateway and FruitDealer, at 21 food, built a 2nd hatchery in his main. HongUn hid 2 stargates at FruitDealer's 3rd at 28 food as FruitDealer started his roach warren around 30. FruitDealer quickly scouted the stargates and started a hydralisk den while taking out the pylons at his ramp with a spine crawler. HongUn attacked with 3 void rays and a phoenix but 3 queens and 9 hydralisks made him turn them back. As FruitDealer killed the pylon powering HongUn's stargates, void rays forced a cancel on the hatchery at FruitDealer's natural just before it finished. At close to 50 food HongUn, still with no expansion, transitioned into 4 gate. 4 void rays forced another cancel on FruitDealer's expansion. Then, with a group of stalkers, sentries, and void rays, HongUn attacked. FruitDealer held his wide ramp with zerglings, drones, and hydralisks and counterattacked, getting the gg.
Z12 Game 2 - Scrap Station P2
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +FruitDealer took his gas, then pool at 13 food. HongUn went nexus first at 15. FruitDealer expanded at 18 food while HongUn finished off his wall with a gateway and warped in cannon. FruitDealer started a baneling nest at 35 food and attacked HongUn's rocks with zerglings, forcing a cannon. FruitDealer busted HongUn's wall with 14 banelings and a group of speedlings, but the banelings only destroyed the forge and cannon and zealots killed the zerglings before they could do much damage. HongUn broke through the rocks with a mass of stalkers, zealots, and sentries. FruitDealer's only gambit was to burrow 14 banelings, but even when they exploded directly under HongUn's troops it wasn't enough. FruitDealer gg'd.
Z11 Game 3 - Shakuras Plateau P1
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +FruitDealer 13 gas, 13 pooled. HongUn opened nexus first followed by a forge. FruitDealer started a roach warren close to 19 food and began attacking the rocks between his and HongUn's base. FruitDealer broke through HongUn's rocks with 7 roaches and a few zerglings before HongUn's cannons could finish. With nothing to defend HongUn gg'd.
Z12 Game 4 - Lost Temple P2
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +FruitDealer opened 13 pool 12 gas. At 15 food HongUn opened forge first, followed by 2 pylons at the bottom of FruitDealer's ramp. HongUn built 1 cannon behind his proxy pylons then expanded. HongUn pylon jumped a probe into FruitDealer's main, scouting the lair. After killing the probe FruitDealer cancelled it and broke out of his base with 3 roaches. HongUn completed his wall with a cybernetics core, warped in more cannons to hold off FruitDealer's roaches, and began a stargate at 35 food. FruitDealer destroyed HongUn's forge and, with no expansion, attacked HongUn's wall with roaches and zerglings. As FruitDealer slowly broke through the wall, HongUn warped in more buildings to keep his base sealed, relying on his void ray to kill all of FruitDealer's units. HongUn kept pushing back his wall and FruitDealer was unable to break through before all but a couple zerglings were dead. HongUn immediately counterattacked with 3 void rays and won the game.
Z7 Game 5 - Blistering Sands P1
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +FruitDealer went 13 gas 13 pool. HongUn opened gateway followed by 14 gas, 15 cybernetics core, 17 gas. FruitDealer expanded at 18 food and HongUn warped in a dark shrine at 26 food. FruitDealer sacrificed 23 zerglings to delay the dark templar from entering his main, but the dark templar still reached FruitDealer's one spore crawler just before it finished. With no detection, FruitDealer gg'd.
Player Grades:
+ Show Spoiler [Show Player Grades] +HongUnPrime.WE - BIt's hard to give HongUn a grade because he won most of the games by defending against all-ins and counterattacking. That said, he twice aptly held off FruitDealer's cheese, the only exception being on Shakuras, where his build simply did not work. His pylon wall-in FE build was very interesting to see and his defense on Lost Temple was genius. TSL-FruitDealer - C+I don't think anyone knows why FruitDealer played the way he did. In game 1 he responded perfectly to both the wall-in and proxy stargates and straight up killed HongUn. After that great performance he decided to all-in every game. It was dumbfounding and frustrating to watch.
oGsMC < 3-1 > MarineKingPrime.WE - ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/images/blackstarhalf.png)
"Force Field...Marauder Die Die"
T12 Game 1 - Lost Temple P6
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +MarineKing walled off the bottom of his ramp with his first barracks and depot. MarineKing then expanded at 20 food before taking his first gas. Around 28 food MC made a Stargate. With his first voidray giving sight, MC warped 3 zealots into MC's main while MarineKing's army was in the middle of the map chasing a single stalker. It took MarineKing's units 37 seconds to get back to the main base. By then a 2nd void ray had arrived and, in combination with the rounds of zealots being warped in, MarineKing's marines were unable to cope. MC kept reinforcing with voidrays, zealots, and stalkers as he chipped away at MarineKing. MC's forces became too many to deal with and MarineKing gg'd.
T1 Game 2 - Delta Quadrant P5
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +At 10 food MarineKing built a proxy barracks at the xel'naga watchtower, then took his gas. MC went 1 gate into cybernetics core and scouted MarineKing on his first try. MarineKing began researching concussive shell as soon as his tech lab finished and started pumping out marauders. MarineKing planted a bunker at the bottom of MC's ramp but with 4 probes, 1 zealot, and 1 stalker MC was able to easily delay the bunker from finishing and kill the first 3 marauders. MC moved out to the middle of the map and destroyed the proxy barracks while MarineKing retreated to the 3 barracks in his main. MC followed up with a 2 pronged attack but he was repelled by 2 bunkers. MC returned to his side of the map and took his natural while teching to colossus. MarineKing continued to mass bio and with 2 medivacs he attack into MC's natural. Despite good force fields, MC was unable to hold. MC retreated up to his main with 1 immortal, 1 colossus, 2 zealots, 4 sentries, and 1 stalker. As soon as 2 vikings reached his bio ball, MarineKing stimmed up the ramp. With hardly any units, MC gg'd.
T1 Game 3 - Blistering Sands P7
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +MC built a proxy gateway at 9 food behind the minerals at MarineKings' natural. Marine king opened 12 barracks. With 2 zealots and a probe MC whittled MarineKing down to 2 scvs and 1 mule. As soon as his next marine died, MarineKing typed out.
T5 Game 4 - Jungle Basin P11
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +MarineKing built his barracks at 12 supply, MC his first assimilator at 15 supply. Like in game 1, MarineKing followed up with a command center then refinery at 20 supply. At 23 supply MarineKing made his 2nd barracks. MC scouted thoroughly for proxies before warping in 3 additional warpgates at 30 food. With 7 stalkers and 4 sentries MC broke down the rocks behind MarineKing's natural and forced the Terran to lift off and retreat to his main. With no tech lab upgrades, MarineKing barely held his position at the top of the ramp. MC pulled back to his base and took his natural. After building up a group of infantry MarineKing re-took his expansion. MC scouted it and tried to harass with dark templar, but besides forcing scans they hardly did any damage. Storm and blink finished for MC around 118 food, MarineKing's ghost academy at 112. MC managed to avoid emps on his high templar and defend his 3rd base in the middle of the map with chargelots and storms. MarineKing was forced back to his base 10 food behind. MC used his blink stalkers and high templars guerilla warfare style to pick away at MarineKing's army, deny him a 3rd, and push him back to his base. When 2 colossus joined his army MC moved up MarineKing's ramp and won the game.
Player Grades:
+ Show Spoiler [Show Player Grades] +oGsMC - AMC is amazing - what else is there to say? He is undisputedly the best Protoss in the world, and perhaps the best player. His transitioning into and use of high templars is fantastic. The game on Jungle Basin showcases this, as well as his trade mark aggression, which is almost always successful. Who else feedbacks a whole group of ghosts? Game 1 should also be noted for MC's insanely good build and execution. MarineKingPrime.WE - C+MarineKing crumbled under MC's pressure. In game 1 he probably could have held off MC's attack but he was caught way out of position and made turrets too late. The only game he won was through massing units for a 1 base all-in, after failing at a proxy rax strategy. The only drawn out game was on Jungle Basin, in which he never threatened MC and only managed to stay alive until storm finished.
TLAF-Liquid`Jinro < 3-2 > ChoyafOu -
"A Real Terran"
Check out our in depth coverage and a post game interview in the foreigner special!
Player Grades:
+ Show Spoiler [Show Player Grades] +TLAF-Liquid`Jinro - A-Jinro played exceptionally well the entire series; in my opinion it was one of, if not the, most entertaining series in GSL history. This series demonstrates that Jinro is one of the few Terrans successful at both all-ins, and late game management. The latter is what really stands out. Jinro's transitions and decision making are right on point against Choya. It is really a treat to watch. His army positioning on Metalopolis and Delta Quadrant cost him those games, but besides that, there really isn't anything to critique. ChoyafOu - B+ Choya played a great series. His build on Xel'Naga Caverns was excellent and came very close to catching Jinro, and in the late game his skill made for some great battles. He also played a great game on Blistering Sands, a game which he could have won with the thermal lance upgrade. I find it odd that Choya preferred colossus over templar as much as he did, but either way, he played well and made for a very entertaining series.
Round of 4
TSL-Rain < 4-2> HongUnPrime.WE -
"Ray Fish Can't Handle the Rain"
T8 Game 1 - Metalopolis P2
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +In far positions Rain goes for a 1 rax fast expand and HongUn matches with a 1 gate nexus. Rain follows through with 5 rax and a ghost academy, HongUn opting for a 3 gate robo and double forge. Rain attempts a timing push just as his first ghost had the energy for an EMP. HongUn was prepared however, a good spread of his sentries with great guardian shields and forcefields allowed the gateway army to crush the bio push. Rain responded by trying to quickly make up for his tech, working up to starport while getting infantry 1-1, HongUn added a couple gateways while chronoboosting out 2-2 and zealot charge. Both players set up thirds while the armies engage in the open field, a simultaneous drop doing mild damage to HongUn’s main as his gateway army pushed all the way to Rain’s natural before reinforcements eventually overwhelmed HongUn’s still gateway army. With high templar tech done the protoss force pushed once again, the kiting bio ball slowly able to whittle down the chargelot heavy force, allowing HongUn to safely take the gold expansion. Aware that he was falling further behind Rain waited for a couple production cycles to further grow his MMM ball before making a final push. In an attempt to flank the protoss front Rain moved his force along the far lane, splitting between HongUn’s main and gold expansion, but a flurry of well placed storms found Rain to be the one out of position. With half his army killed almost instantly, Rain quickly surrendered in order to move on to the next game.
T1 Game 2 - Xel'Naga Caverns P7
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +HongUn manages to scout the reactor and second barracks opening by Rain, opting for a one base stargate play. The two rax bio force attacked as Rain’s expansion began building, HongUn’s void ray finishing right on time to trap Rain’s army inside the protoss base and get wiped out with ease. A pause later revealed Rain’s monitor had been flickering, but interestingly the players continued with the game. HongUn having scouted the building command center knew he was under pressure, moving out with a 2 gateway force and 2 void rays, but a timely bunker allows Rain to hold. HongUn continued trying to poke around the terran base, at one point trapping most of the marines in the main while his army moved in on the natural, but despite his all in rallying of troops to the front HongUn was unable to do much before being chased off again, and the 2 base economy of Rain eventually overwhelming the protoss force with ease and clinching a somewhat surprising game two.
T12 Game 3 - Lost Temple P6
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +Far positions, Rain opens with a siege tank and fast medivac against HongUn’s blink stalkers and hallucination, using a hallucinated void ray to try and blink and warp into Rain’s main. However the marine tank medivac force was in position and wiped out the protoss push with ease. Now far ahead Rain both expanded and pushed, but some brilliant tactical blinks allow HongUn to barely hold off after using the watch tower to reach the high ground, followed up by a blink from his main onto some siege tanks left undefended as his marine force was pushing the ramp. Rain retreated to his new expansion, HongUn tried dark templar tech while expanding. Just as the first DT reached Rain’s natural a raven poped, but using a phoenix and blink for some clever harass caught the terran army out of position, HongUn managing to snipe a couple tech labs and the raven with minimal stalker casualties before retreating to safety. With a substantially larger army Rain moved out, but without a raven HongUn cleverly forced scans, Rain interestingly turning around just before crushing the protoss force conceivably afraid of running out of scans and losing to DTs. HongUn pushes his luck, teching to colossi and starting a 3rd at his gold, but as a raven finishes for Rain he again pushed out, this time continuing on and crushing the protoss army for a game 3 win.
T1 Game 4 - Delta Quadrant P5
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +In close positions Rain opts for a 3 rax no gas marine SCV play, Rain opening with a 4 gate aggressive opening of his own. With no sentries however the SCV marine force was able to simply walk up the protoss ramp, and a quick bunker in range of the majority of HongUn’s buildings put Rain in an incredibly favorable position. HongUn attempted to micro for his life, but the never ending stream of marines was eventually too much, slowly wearing the protoss down until he grudgingly typed out and Rain was suddenly only 1 win away from a spot in the finals.
T2 Game 5 - Scrap Station P12
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +HongUn attempts a 4 gate, but Rain’s scouting factory not only sees the 4 gate, but he had already begun an expansion and marauder heavy play. HongUn’s stalker heavy force caught Rain with only a single bunker and minimal army, the rest of the game was mostly cleanup for the proxy pylon reinforcements, HongUn beginning his comeback with a quick win.
T7 Game 6 - Blistering Sands P1
+ Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +Rain gets fast concussive shells, looking to put early scv marauder pressure on the protoss, but HongUn caught wind of it and Rain intelligently pulled back. HongUn continued on into 4 warp gate play while hiding a twilight council. As the council finished HongUn pulled all his probes from gas and begun chronoboosting out zealot charge. Rain meanwhile had expanded, working his way up to 5 rax and putting a couple bunkers in the main. HongUn broke down the back rocks and committed however, despite Rain’s incredibly favorable army positioning dramatically limiting the number of zealots that could attack. Rain’s defenses held, but aware of how far behind he was HongUn committed to another attack, managing to force the expansion to lift but the damage had been done, Rain moved out and counter attacked through HongUn’s back rocks, easily overwhelming the protoss forces, sealing TSL Rain’s spot in the GSL season 3 finals.
Player Grades:
+ Show Spoiler [Show Player Grades] + TSL-Rain - B+Rain started off quite shaky on Metalopolis, although some of that credit goes to HongUn’s strong play there. Starting as soon as he typed out that game however Rain took over the series. His play was by no means perfect, but his decision making, strategies, and execution were always a step ahead of HongUn, even his loss on Scrap more an effect of a potentially too strategic build than anything else. His strength may be exaggerated if you raised questions about HongUn’s performance, but ultimately Rain has now managed to overcome 5 straight opponents since he qualified, and demonstrated a wide array of play styles in the process, and he has set himself up to do the only thing that really matters, win it all. HongUnPrime.WE - B-If you did not watch this semifinal live nor have a season ticket, odds are a B- is a very surprising grade for HongUn given his game 1 play. Unfortunately his incredibly strong play on metalopolis turned out to be the exception instead of the norm, or the monitor issue pause truly shook him up. After losing with a distinct advantage and being caught trying to be overly cute game 3, the series had seemingly slipped form his control, DQ looking more like a player desperate to hold on instead of one primed to flip the momentum of match. The 4 gate on scrap may have been as much luck as anything else, and then a very interesting build order was squandered by attacking into an obviously poor position, perhaps HongUn was simply relying on poor building placement and had given up upon seeing Rain’s base. Either way HongUn was outmatched this series, and the sparks of brilliance game 1 and sprinked elsewhere through the series was not near enough.
oGsMC < 4-0 > TLAF-Liquid`Jinro -
"Jane Goodall Watch Out, MC Tames Gorilla Terran"
Check out our in depth coverage and post game interview in the foreigner special!
Player Grades:
+ Show Spoiler [Show Player Grades] + oGsMC - AThere is simply no denying that MC dominated this match, he made use of every detail he knew of Jinro’s play in extrodinary fashion. His execution was great, his strategies specialized for this match, and his result was well earned. A great example of both his level of play and Jinro’s heart and skill are manifest in the last game. Jinro was managing to overcome a DT build with his thor rush, despite DTs often being considered a direct counter to the build, but in the ensuing base trade MC had the presence of mind to use his small remaining gateway army that could not directly confrot the terran forces to catch the floating command center Jinro just happened to be floating across the middle of the map. Whether you want to consider it luck, experience, or skill, MC had a lot of it, and with one series to go he looked near untouchable. TLAF-Liquid`Jinro - BI’m not sure how much of what we got to see was what Jinro had planned for us unfortunately; MC invested quite a bit into disrupting Jinro’s play. Jinro lost to early pressure on steppes, and was caught somewhat helpless to a great timing push that was well controlled game 2, and an equally well controlled one base play on Shakuras. The game on Jungle Basin was a rollercoaster of a game, Jinro finally executing what seemed like a full game plan and almost overcame fast DTs with his Thor push, nearly breaking the accepted paradigm if only his command center could’ve made it safely across the map. So why a B in a series our hero was simply out played in every way? Because we haven’t really seen a protoss play to this level in the GSL yet. Yes Jinro was outplayed but more because MC was on a different level than Jinro necessarily played poorly. Plus with so little to critique this series, and Jinro’s valiant attempts when caught in rough situations, it’s a tough call. Or maybe I’m biased, but I see a B.
Next: Finals Preview
TeamLiquid's got you covered if you can't watch the finals live. Keep an eye out for our GSL Season 3 Finals coverage. Does the TL staff think MC will make Rain's marauders die die? Or will Rain continue his underdog run?
|
I love Jinro just as much as the next guy... but giving him a B for that performance seems a bit biased.
+ Show Spoiler +He got taken out so damn fast it's hard to judge his performance, and every single game MC seemed to know exactly what he was doing and conjure up the perfect counter strategy. Even the last game, but Jinro managed to get that into a basetrade match...
And bringing up his rating based on that his opponent was of much higher caliber just seems wrong.
But that's just another mans opinion!
|
That was an excellent review of GSL. Thanks to the writers.
|
Great review!! Thanks for the write up.
|
Im sorry but.. you gave Rain, the winner in his matches against NesTea... a lower ranking than NesTea? =/
Undeserved I think.
And Jinro's play was pretty horrible imo. I stayed up all night to watch those games... and yes MC was extremely good. But Jinro was also extremely..baad.
2c.
|
Jinro is probably the first player that lost 4-0 in less than an hour and still got a B, but well we all can understand that.
|
Wow. Just…Wow. I mean, DAT RATING.
+ Show Spoiler +Did you even watched HongUn's brilliant defense against FD in Game 2? After Banelings made a big hole at his defence, he warped another Core immediately to fill that gap(which was made by FD's Banelings), preventing any zergling reinforcemets, minimizing further losses.
Oh, and game 4. ARE YOU SERIOUS? It was one of most tense moment in the history of GSL S3!
Of course it is my opinion, but at least it was fun to watch(for many people, I believe), which makes it more than one-star rated match.
I appreciate writers' effort, but I have to say that it was most unable-to-understand Game/Series Rating I ever seen.
EDIT : There was a mistake in game number. Correted now.
|
I think MC is gonna roflstomp rain so badly in the finals, that is unless he chokes because of the pressure.
|
Everybody should take the ratings with a pinch of salt. I personally feel that the games, all-ins or not, are very entertaining. The all-ins by Rain were executed very well (unlike bitbybitprime), and Nestea put up a very good fight.
|
Jinro's grade may be a bit steep, but it reflects the games we saw, for the length of time he was playing. He seemed so badly outplayed it's hard to give him anything higher.
|
TSL-Rain < 4-1> HongUnPrime.WE
That series was 4-2, me thinks. You also recap 6 games, so that gotta be correct.
|
On December 13 2010 17:59 Blitzmarine wrote:Wow. Just…Wow. I mean, DAT RATING. + Show Spoiler +Did you even watched HongUn's brilliant defense against FD in Game 3? After Banelings made a big hole at his defence, he warped another Core immediately to fill that gap(which was made by FD's Banelings), preventing any zergling reinforcemets, minimizing further losses.
Oh, and game 4. ARE YOU SERIOUS? It was one of most tense moment in the history of GSL S3!
Of course it is my opinion, but at least it was fun to watch(for many people, I believe), which makes it more than one-star rated match. I appreciate writers' effort, but I have to say that it was most unable-to-understand Game/Series Rating I ever seen.
Completely agree, the writer obviously has a bias towards macro games.
Giving 0 stars to cheese/losing to cheese is somewhat ok IF IT WAS HORIBLE CHEESE, but the 5th game against Nestea was worth more than one.
And Half of HongUnPrmes games were reasonably well. How else do you defend agisnst roach/baneling all in? Jesus
|
And I guess he gave Jinro 4.5stars because thats the first macro Terran he had seen.. zzz
(no offence)
|
The fruitdealer assessment is ridiculous. There was nothing inexplicable about his decisions to all in. He got his second hatch hugely delayed everytime against a p who was fast expanding. This means he either allins and has a decent chance of winning, or accepts the MASSIVE econ handicap and almost certainly loses 5-10 mins later.
FD was cheesed out of this tournament just as much as nestea was.
|
The bias of the writer towards economic play is a little ridiculous, in my opinion.
If a strategy works, it works.
I know everyone hates cheese, but it's a legitimate strategy against a player that plans on playing a long game.
Thanks for the write-up, but this is probably the least objective one I've seen.
EDIT: I guess I'm just tired of all the hate on Rain. He's not my favorite player or even close, but he is not at all a bad player for winning with all-in strategies. In fact, if he can do it again, he should. He can work on improving his overall game when there isn't 80,000 dollars at stake in the near, near future.
|
And please give ratings according to your rating guide.
No stars - The losing player played so poorly, we presume he's been banned from all future GSL events.
One star - Not an entertaining or instructive game. Even if you're a fan of the winner, your time is probably better spent.
Two star - A below-average game. Not worth watching unless you're a fan of the winning player.
You gave plenty of 0-2 stars. wtf
P.S Kudos to True Redemption for writing out a more objective review.
|
I'm not sure if choya deserved that B+... he lost a lot of colossus for free sloppily in game 2 and forgetting thermal lance in game 5 was huge, not to mention his lack of attempting to take a third (which, imo, was completely feasible). Conversely, I'm not sure if Jinro played A- in that series either... the delta quadrant game was pretty ugly in general and I feel Jinro overproduced vikings in metalopolis; if choya had gone immortal switch that game would've been been pretty one-sided.
|
On December 13 2010 17:52 andrewwiggin wrote:
Im sorry but.. you gave Rain, the winner in his matches against NesTea... a lower ranking than NesTea? =/
Undeserved I think.
And Jinro's play was pretty horrible imo. I stayed up all night to watch those games... and yes MC was extremely good. But Jinro was also extremely..baad.
2c.
Put my responses in spoiler, just because it's so early in the thread.
+ Show Spoiler +
If you watched TSL_Rain vs Nestea, those grades are deserved. Getting really lucky on maps and still nearly not pulling off virtual free win scenario does not make him the better player. If it'd been Scrap Station in game 2 rather than Steppes, Rain is out 0-3.
As for MC vs Jinro, that's a hard one. That very much looked like MC knew what Jinro wanted to do, i.e. it was a team game, and MC had the better mind-game for it. Also, it showed that MC respected Jinro's late-game skill enough he wasn't going to risk it getting that far.
A "B" for Jinro is probably biased, but I'm not sure what grade you would give him otherwise. MC knew what he could do against Jinro, which is probably why Jinro wasn't to high on his chances of beating MC during his Ro8 interview.
|
I love Jinro and all, but he certainly didnt play a B in those games.
I dunno if it was nerves or what, or if he was just a little bit too scared vs MC but he didnt play well at all. Still love Jinro for beeing cool and the best Terran out there!
But next time, when you go 2 rax expand (Xel naga), and you scout 1 zealot and 3 sentries, please just go there and hit him with the first few units
|
On December 13 2010 18:52 Taf the Ghost wrote:Put my responses in spoiler, just because it's so early in the thread. + Show Spoiler +
If you watched TSL_Rain vs Nestea, those grades are deserved. Getting really lucky on maps and still nearly not pulling off virtual free win scenario does not make him the better player. If it'd been Scrap Station in game 2 rather than Steppes, Rain is out 0-3.
As for MC vs Jinro, that's a hard one. That very much looked like MC knew what Jinro wanted to do, i.e. it was a team game, and MC had the better mind-game for it. Also, it showed that MC respected Jinro's late-game skill enough he wasn't going to risk it getting that far.
A "B" for Jinro is probably biased, but I'm not sure what grade you would give him otherwise. MC knew what he could do against Jinro, which is probably why Jinro wasn't to high on his chances of beating MC during his Ro8 interview.
Okay. But if Rain doing such POOR, HORRIBLE all-ins, still managed to win... what does that make NesTea? =/
You see what I mean? The worse player lost. Maybe NesTea is the better player on average.. but in that series, he lost. So giving him a higher ranking than Rain makes no sense, however you look at it.
|
Since the point of the rating system is to show how well a player played in a particular series surely if the player then gets repeatedly beaten fast then you cannot rate them highly?
I am sure Jinro will get his chance in the future as he is an excellent player.
For now I am really looking forward to seeing if MC can do it again in the finals or whether it was his direct familiarity with Jinro's play that led to his dominance...
|
Jinro vs MC was a one star match in my book. And Jinro didn't perform B at all.
|
Some of the ratings seem way off this week and I've never before thought that.
+ Show Spoiler +
B for Jinro and Nestea? They both lost due to poor openings from what I observed and Nestea in particular didn't do anything to adjust his opening to counter it. Surely that is C- level play at the most.
|
gotta say this edition of recap is pretty bad and not even corresponded to OP's rating standard. Some of the games which u gave 0-1 stars are very interesting and intense, some players should be given more credit while some others aint
+ Show Spoiler +
Just to mention a few, the sim city defense of HongUn is one of the most tense moment in gsl, he should be given much more credit for his fast reaction and iron nerve to defend that push
Game 5 of Nestea v Rain is definitely worth more than 1* when Rain executed his bunkerush very well, yet still played safely and expanded. Though almost crumble, Nestea still held on and almost successfully countered with better decision, fans were given some glimpse of hope & some heartattack. I love that as a spectator
And how come Jinro earned a B for being demolished in less than 10 mins each game, while MK only got C+ after playing some epic games ? I dont care about how theyr teammate and MC being the superior, whoever played that bad should be given D+ at best. This is one the worst series in this gsl imo
Anyway I dont see any game rating for that series, must have been 4x zero stars since the OP is so hard to please.
|
On December 13 2010 19:09 andrewwiggin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 18:52 Taf the Ghost wrote:Put my responses in spoiler, just because it's so early in the thread. + Show Spoiler +
If you watched TSL_Rain vs Nestea, those grades are deserved. Getting really lucky on maps and still nearly not pulling off virtual free win scenario does not make him the better player. If it'd been Scrap Station in game 2 rather than Steppes, Rain is out 0-3.
As for MC vs Jinro, that's a hard one. That very much looked like MC knew what Jinro wanted to do, i.e. it was a team game, and MC had the better mind-game for it. Also, it showed that MC respected Jinro's late-game skill enough he wasn't going to risk it getting that far.
A "B" for Jinro is probably biased, but I'm not sure what grade you would give him otherwise. MC knew what he could do against Jinro, which is probably why Jinro wasn't to high on his chances of beating MC during his Ro8 interview.
Okay. But if Rain doing such POOR, HORRIBLE all-ins, still managed to win... what does that make NesTea? =/
A good zerg player.
|
Agree with the comments above... A less biased approach would make for better reading. Jinro sadly got stomped by MC. Marineking put up a better fight, took a game and got a worse ranking? Thats just one example of many....
|
This is very biased. If Rain vs NesTea series is worth only 2 stars, there is no way MC vs Jinro should get much more.
|
We all love Jinro but that series vs oGsMC, B is a little too much and no way those games with 0 stars deserve them. Also, a win is a win cheese or not. If you lose to a bad strategy, wouldn't that mean you played even worse?
I'm confused with the ratings given. It makes no sense. Would probably be better off reading comments off GOMTV.net and decide which games to watch.
|
Australia326 Posts
Hilarious bias.
IMNestea gets a B but TSL_Rain gets a C-? You do know who won the series, right?
And against MC you gave Foxer a C+, where the games were at times quite close, and Jinro a B? Futhermore, you then justify the 'B' by saying that MC played well. Newsflash, MC's play is reflected by his own rating.
Puh-leese.
I'd rather you just forgo the ratings if they're going to be so nonsensical, and thus detract from your analysis. The ratings are supposed to reflect a player's standard during one match, not their 'overall strength'. Even in the Fruitdealer vs HongUn series you rated the games as being worthless to watch, essentially, when most people found the frantic defence a pleasure to view.
|
I didn't know that even the people writing articles were bitter fanboys.
|
My brain hurts from reading this recap.
Thanks for putting your time and effort into it I guess.
edit- Also, how did the FD vs HongUn Lost Temple game 4 only get 1 star? based on the rating system...
4 stars - Excellent play demonstrated by at least one of the players, and very likely both. A must watch.
3 stars - A good game, but nothing truly special. Often not competitive, or with some mistakes. Worth watching if you have the time.
2 stars - A below-average game. Not worth watching unless you're a fan of the winning player.
1 star - Not an entertaining or instructive game. Even if you're a fan of the winner, your time is probably better spent.
This was an exciting game which demonstrated great play by hongun being able to macro buildings so well. I was at the edge of my seat and I know I wasn't the only one.
|
On December 13 2010 17:44 Danjoh wrote:I love Jinro just as much as the next guy... but giving him a B for that performance seems a bit biased. + Show Spoiler +He got taken out so damn fast it's hard to judge his performance, and every single game MC seemed to know exactly what he was doing and conjure up the perfect counter strategy. Even the last game, but Jinro managed to get that into a basetrade match...
And bringing up his rating based on that his opponent was of much higher caliber just seems wrong. But that's just another mans opinion!
+ Show Spoiler +If you take other factions in your calculations then the gametime elapsed you'll see that he played very solid up till the moment he lost to perfect timing push's. Doing exellent moves and Jinro's builds were executed flawlessly, just that they got hardcountered most of the time before he could reap.(He played B- imo but come'n it's not like the they gave him a A+)
|
nothing wrong with the analysis, its just the ratings that are a flabbergastering.
|
I kinda have to echo everyone else here and state that the ratings are incredibly biased to the point of meaninglessness. Jinro is a great guy and all, but he was absolutely demolished. Rain on the other hand won and received a lower grade. How does that work? Beating Nestea isn't some trivial task regardless of how he did it.
|
granted, it were hard games to judge. short, cheesy, or just plain weird.
|
I think people have to watch the games to really understand the rating system. For me the reason Rain got lower than Nestea was because Rain got utterly destroyed in the longer game and in the cheeses it was more Nestea doing 1/2 mistakes than Rain playing anything close to good. So for me it makes sense that Rain got a lower rating. People need to understand that the better player doesn't always win and likewise the person that wins isn't always the better player.
The Fruit vs Hongun games are similar. Fruit outplayed himself more than Hongun did anything. Then MC vs Jinro was such a short affair so really any rating for Jinro is going to be hard and there will be bias since there's not much to say on the matter. MC played amazing and Jinro was just a step behind. Is being a step behind amazing horrible or is it good?
|
On December 13 2010 21:15 goldfishs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 17:44 Danjoh wrote:I love Jinro just as much as the next guy... but giving him a B for that performance seems a bit biased. + Show Spoiler +He got taken out so damn fast it's hard to judge his performance, and every single game MC seemed to know exactly what he was doing and conjure up the perfect counter strategy. Even the last game, but Jinro managed to get that into a basetrade match...
And bringing up his rating based on that his opponent was of much higher caliber just seems wrong. But that's just another mans opinion! + Show Spoiler +If you take other factions in your calculations then the gametime elapsed you'll see that he played very solid up till the moment he lost to perfect timing push's. Doing exellent moves and Jinro's builds were executed flawlessly, just that they got hardcountered most of the time before he could reap.(He played B- imo but come'n it's not like the they gave him a A+)
Jinros biggest strength is his lategame macro play, if the opponent outplays him so he can't even get to the point where he starts to shines, he's not doing a good job.
And it's stupid to give a player a higher rating based on that his opponent was completely dominating him. A gold player playing against a diamond player doesn't play better simply because his opponent is leagues above him. (not saying Jinro is gold level, just making a anology!).
|
Protoss is in GSL final ! WOW!
Great Recaps. Thanks.
|
Nice recap!
Small typo in the score between Rain and HongUn though. It was 4-2 not 4-1.
|
watch the games. SCV all-ins are not a sign of a good player if it guarantees a free win without much effort. cheesy all-ins are okay. but excessive cheese to win a game because you know you cant win is like a kick to the balls in a MMA fight, it is disgustingly bad and just painful to watch. It does not display any real skill, (well maybe for the defender if he succeeds). I agree with the gradings. the SCV all-ins where so bad that rain even apologized for it.
|
On December 13 2010 19:09 andrewwiggin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 18:52 Taf the Ghost wrote:Put my responses in spoiler, just because it's so early in the thread. + Show Spoiler +
If you watched TSL_Rain vs Nestea, those grades are deserved. Getting really lucky on maps and still nearly not pulling off virtual free win scenario does not make him the better player. If it'd been Scrap Station in game 2 rather than Steppes, Rain is out 0-3.
As for MC vs Jinro, that's a hard one. That very much looked like MC knew what Jinro wanted to do, i.e. it was a team game, and MC had the better mind-game for it. Also, it showed that MC respected Jinro's late-game skill enough he wasn't going to risk it getting that far.
A "B" for Jinro is probably biased, but I'm not sure what grade you would give him otherwise. MC knew what he could do against Jinro, which is probably why Jinro wasn't to high on his chances of beating MC during his Ro8 interview.
Okay. But if Rain doing such POOR, HORRIBLE all-ins, still managed to win... what does that make NesTea? =/ You see what I mean? The worse player lost. Maybe NesTea is the better player on average.. but in that series, he lost. So giving him a higher ranking than Rain makes no sense, however you look at it. im kinda on your boat. It wasn't as if NesTea didn't see it coming either. He knew it was a possibility after the first time. so y he still went hatch first dumbfounded me more than Rain's All-in. Not to mention the rubber match was Rain out playing NesTea with something NesTea should have fended off (though that rear bunker probably would have made it harder)
on the other hand, when Rain tried to play straight up NesTea did wreck him. I mean they weren't even close games so i can certainly see y Rain got a lower rating.
Overall everything else was fair enough (other than Jinro's score after getting demolished by MC) Keep on Keepin' on with these recaps :D I still do love things being quantified! heh
|
Having watched the games (as most people commenting here would have, how could you say anything otherwise?) most peoples problem appears to be less with the Rain rating than with the Jinro rating.
As it stands the games failed to be a credit to Jinro ( or deserving of a 'B') because MC out played the meta game with him. The bias is understandable (this is TL after all and Jinro has done a huge amount for the community here plus is apparently an all round great guy) but for those who are major fans of Jinro would you seriously say this is the series of games of him to watch?
Hopefully he will absorb the lessons of this (to get to his level of player I am sure he will do this) and next time will be able to do more and hopefully go further.
|
Australia326 Posts
On December 13 2010 21:56 Brewed Tea wrote:
watch the games. SCV all-ins are not a sign of a good player if it guarantees a free win without much effort. cheesy all-ins are okay. but excessive cheese to win a game because you know you cant win is like a kick to the balls in a MMA fight, it is disgustingly bad and just painful to watch. It does not display any real skill, (well maybe for the defender if he succeeds). I agree with the gradings. the SCV all-ins where so bad that rain even apologized for it.
I hate to derail this topic further so I'll try to make this my last post here.
Brewed Tea, I found it funny how you state your opinion as fact.
SCV-all-ins guarantee a free win?
Please.
Oh but then you relent: cheesy all-ins are okay, just not with SCVs.
I'm glad you approve.
Your MMA analogy is terrible, as a kick to the balls is an illegal shot, and you can forfeit the fight if your opponent chooses to take it up. There is nothing illegal about any Terran play, unless they were maphacking or had external help, which of course is ridiculous.
However since you brought MMA up, it's interesting because many of the good fighters (Fitch, GSP) are consistently bashed for LnP, or Lay and Pray, where it is deemed that they are extending the fight unnecessarily (via takedowns, etc.) to cruise to a points decision. I guess it's still a poor comparison overall, but sc2 spectators seem to value longer, more drawn out matches (even if the action is few and far between) while the 'bloodthirsty' fans of MMA love the early round knockouts.
The people saying NesTea deserves the higher rating make no sense at all. If Rain played horribly, then Nestea played worse. Spouting rubbish such as 'Nestea beat himself' and 'in straight-up games, Rain got crushed' doesn't really support anything. One could easily reverse the viewpoints and say 'Rain crushed Nestea early game' and 'In the longer games, Rain beat himself'. See how ridiculous it is?
'Straight-up' is a bastardisation of some imaginary scenario such as a gentleman's duel with prior agreements.
This is Sc2. (:
|
Canada5565 Posts
Guys, the ratings are meant to be biased. They are ratings, how could they not be? If you want objectivity read the recaps themselves. Please tell me if you find those biased. If they are, then we have a problem I need to fix.
That said, I see I ranked some games based on entertainment value not the star system, so I'll change some 0 stars to 2 stars and whatever else needs tweaking.
Glad you guys uh, enjoyed it.
|
very strong bias in the ratings i do have to say.
giving out 1 star to great/hilarious/entertaining games, is very poor.
I hope this improves over the next GSL(s).
if it feels like fun and the commentators were really impressed, it's probably a very enjoying game to behold, and should be rated as such.
|
lol, don't get me wrong Xxio I loved the write up and I eagerly await them when they appear even when I have watched the games in question. When it comes down to it the rating thing is only a quibble...
|
2nd write up about gsl ive read and the writer is complaining about cheese again. this is a strategy game lol. if my opponent is going to be robotic and do the same thing everygame, then ya im going to find a hole and exploit it. isnt that what you're supposed to do, counter?
|
"Jane Goodall Watch Out, MC Tames Gorilla Terran"
lol... Jane Goodall was chimps. Dian Fossey was the name you're looking for (admittedly not as well known. Personally I'd have made a different attempt at a gorilla joke, maybe involving Donkey Kong)
Ggs though. Did not turn out as I expected, that's for sure.
|
On December 13 2010 22:55 Xxio wrote:
Guys, the ratings are meant to be biased. They are ratings, how could they not be? If you want objectivity read the recaps themselves. Please tell me if you find those biased. If they are, then we have a problem I need to fix.
That said, I see I ranked some games based on entertainment value not the star system, so I'll change some 0 stars to 2 stars and whatever else needs tweaking.
Glad you guys uh, enjoyed it.
We know ratings do have bias but they should be a rough guideline to how good the games were to watch. Kinda like the movie star rating system.
2 stars average, 3 stars above avergae/decent (Although your rating system has been stated in the OP and hence should be reasonably followed)
Giving games 0 or 1 stars could potentially put off alot of people from watching those games - even though some might like watching cheese or uber pro walling or rushes. Infact most of these games with Tastosis's commentary should be at least 2 stars, if not more.
But thankyou for somewhat bumping the stars. Although I still reckon Nestea v Rain game 5 should be higher than 1...
|
Good write up overall, but I'm going on the boat that says Rain's Game 5 was actually really exciting to watch - Nestea just almost holding it the entire time was much more tense than the other 2 cheeses by Rain.
|
It seems the writer belongs to the minority when it comes to the ratings.
Write up: 5 stars
Rating: 0 star.
If you find 0 star offensive, then you get my point.
|
Canada5565 Posts
On December 13 2010 23:24 RiceMuncher wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 22:55 Xxio wrote:
Guys, the ratings are meant to be biased. They are ratings, how could they not be? If you want objectivity read the recaps themselves. Please tell me if you find those biased. If they are, then we have a problem I need to fix.
That said, I see I ranked some games based on entertainment value not the star system, so I'll change some 0 stars to 2 stars and whatever else needs tweaking.
Glad you guys uh, enjoyed it. We know ratings do have bias but they should be a rough guideline to how good the games were to watch. Kinda like the movie star rating system. 2 stars average, 3 stars above avergae/decent (Although your rating system has been stated in the OP and hence should be reasonably followed) Giving games 0 or 1 stars could potentially put off alot of people from watching those games - even though some might like watching cheese or uber pro walling or rushes. Infact most of these games with Tastosis's commentary should be at least 2 stars, if not more. But thankyou for somewhat bumping the stars. Although I still reckon Nestea v Rain game 5 should be higher than 1...
By this logic every game should get a high rank - just to make sure someone who happens to like that style of play isn't deterred from watching it. That would make the rating system pointless. I thought it went without saying that these are biased rankings. I can't imagine someone seeing 1 star and thinking "this IS a horrible game".
You say "should be given at least 2 stars". I don't agree. If our positions were reversed it would be me disagreeing because my feelings don't match yours. My point is that I can't rate games to reflect everyone's feelings, nor do I want to. This isn't some communal thing where I take an average.
Yeah game 5 was a bit exciting I guess.
|
On December 13 2010 19:09 andrewwiggin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 18:52 Taf the Ghost wrote:Put my responses in spoiler, just because it's so early in the thread. + Show Spoiler +
If you watched TSL_Rain vs Nestea, those grades are deserved. Getting really lucky on maps and still nearly not pulling off virtual free win scenario does not make him the better player. If it'd been Scrap Station in game 2 rather than Steppes, Rain is out 0-3.
As for MC vs Jinro, that's a hard one. That very much looked like MC knew what Jinro wanted to do, i.e. it was a team game, and MC had the better mind-game for it. Also, it showed that MC respected Jinro's late-game skill enough he wasn't going to risk it getting that far.
A "B" for Jinro is probably biased, but I'm not sure what grade you would give him otherwise. MC knew what he could do against Jinro, which is probably why Jinro wasn't to high on his chances of beating MC during his Ro8 interview.
Okay. But if Rain doing such POOR, HORRIBLE all-ins, still managed to win... what does that make NesTea? =/ You see what I mean? The worse player lost. Maybe NesTea is the better player on average.. but in that series, he lost. So giving him a higher ranking than Rain makes no sense, however you look at it.
Simply put.
Worse players can defeat better players will all-ins and cheeses. No arguing about that.
|
Interesting argument. Sirlin would disagree and his articles do make a lot of sense.
|
Although I really appreciate the recaps, always useful to check out games one was unable to watch, I have to agree with many people claiming against the ratings. If your opponent decides to go 14 hatch in every game, a marine scv allin is the cleverest thing to do. But you decided to give Rain lower grades than NesTea. Also going for all-in does not automatically mean someone is skill-less. In fact, Rain's all-in in G5 against NesTea was amazing. Not only he microed blissfully, but the way he just kept all-inning more and more units to not let NesTea come back was beautiful. Not to mention HongUn's amazing wall resistance getting low-rated, or Jinro (love him! he's such a hero) getting a B against MC when he actually was swept away.
Anyways, thank you a lot for the recaps!
|
Stars are associated with entertainment value, not instructional value. I'd rather see all games marked with stars purely on an entertainment level, and then perhaps 3-4 (number vary by round) games picked out for how instructive they were, aside from any entertainment value.
The MC/Jinro games for example are fairly instructive but not very entertaining.
And yes, giving Jinro a B for rolling over like that is quite hilarious. I love Jinro and got up at 4 in the morning to watch that, but a B?
Suppose Rain loses 4-1 or 4-2, taking a few games with 'cheese'... if Jinro got 4-0'd and never threatened to take a game (maybe game 4), this must be A+ play? But based on this summary, you'd give Rain C I suppose? "cheesy player crushed in straight up games." Not fair and you risk passing on your bias to new fans and people who don't actually watch the games.
|
On December 14 2010 00:25 Matrim wrote:Interesting argument. Sirlin would disagree and his articles do make a lot of sense.
Maybe he should put his idea into a book that will make him some money, since being a winner is the only thing that matters in the world.
|
? Sirlin is quite a major success in the gaming world both as a developer and as a top level gamer (in the games he plays) and his articles are in a book, he was also asked by Blizzard to think up the SC2 ranking system (though he thought about doing so and decided not to in the end) so his intelligence is thought of fairly highly by Blizzard.
|
|
|
I think I've found less biased write ups on youtube videos. Sigh teamliquid ... I've been following you since you detached from broodwar.com and blossomed into your own. I've been following starcraft before battlereports.com was killed by the advent of replays. Now my new browsers don't even have you among the favorite tabs anymore because people get bitched out/banned for telling it how it is. That this site has degraded to a bunch of nonsense whiners and a team that caters to these no skill whiners.
|
On December 14 2010 01:42 KissBlade wrote:
I think I've found less biased write ups on youtube videos. Sigh teamliquid ... I've been following you since you detached from broodwar.com and blossomed into your own. I've been following starcraft before battlereports.com was killed by the advent of replays. Now my new browsers don't even have you among the favorite tabs anymore because people get bitched out/banned for telling it how it is. That this site has degraded to a bunch of nonsense whiners and a team that caters to these no skill whiners.
Only the ratings of games are biased, the recaps are just an account of what happened in the game. It's not like the author is calling TSL_rain a cheesy faggot in every sentence.
Ok, maybe player ratings are biased as well, but overall it's a pretty accurate of what happened in that set.
|
I haven't seen the games, but did Jinro deserve a B?
|
Good reviews. Sure they are somewhat biased but cmon..atleast they have a reason for it.
|
On December 13 2010 17:52 andrewwiggin wrote:
Im sorry but.. you gave Rain, the winner in his matches against NesTea... a lower ranking than NesTea? =/
Undeserved I think.
And Jinro's play was pretty horrible imo. I stayed up all night to watch those games... and yes MC was extremely good. But Jinro was also extremely..baad.
2c.
NesTea basically outplayed the guy. It's just no zerg, not even god almighty, really knows hwo to deal with all scvs + marines without banelings rofl.
|
On December 13 2010 22:55 Xxio wrote:
Guys, the ratings are meant to be biased. They are ratings, how could they not be? If you want objectivity read the recaps themselves. Please tell me if you find those biased. If they are, then we have a problem I need to fix.
That said, I see I ranked some games based on entertainment value not the star system, so I'll change some 0 stars to 2 stars and whatever else needs tweaking.
Glad you guys uh, enjoyed it.
I personally agreed with most of the ratings you gave, but since people like to bitch about it I would just stop giving ratings for individual games.
|
Normally I would never comment on your ratings since i usually find them great! But I find it kind of bad form to give the loser of a series a higher rating than the winner. Although Nestea did show he was more competent in late game situations, the early game matters equally as much, if not more since the early game always takes place. Can't be ignored. Even though zerg might be in a bad place against the situation, it still affects the gameplay and how zerg should react.
|
Nestea got to the dumbest player I have seen in pros...He kept going the same strategy when being cheesed. he gets a higher grade than Rain, is stupid. Rain beat him fair and square cheese or no cheese. Rain is good and probably will keep on beating Nestea the next time they play. He can't change his play in mid swing and that is why he will lose every time.
|
I think Jinro deserved C for his semi, not B.
|
On December 13 2010 21:15 goldfishs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 17:44 Danjoh wrote:I love Jinro just as much as the next guy... but giving him a B for that performance seems a bit biased. + Show Spoiler +He got taken out so damn fast it's hard to judge his performance, and every single game MC seemed to know exactly what he was doing and conjure up the perfect counter strategy. Even the last game, but Jinro managed to get that into a basetrade match...
And bringing up his rating based on that his opponent was of much higher caliber just seems wrong. But that's just another mans opinion! + Show Spoiler +If you take other factions in your calculations then the gametime elapsed you'll see that he played very solid up till the moment he lost to perfect timing push's. Doing exellent moves and Jinro's builds were executed flawlessly, just that they got hardcountered most of the time before he could reap.(He played B- imo but come'n it's not like the they gave him a A+)
His openings weren't solid at all, otherwise they'd have been able to hold off FE's and have better timings worked out...? If your opening build isn't safe vs hyperaggression, and more than 50% of Toss opens with hyperaggression, then adjust your goddamn build.
|
On December 14 2010 04:05 Coolness53 wrote:
Nestea got to the dumbest player I have seen in pros...He kept going the same strategy when being cheesed. he gets a higher grade than Rain, is stupid. Rain beat him fair and square cheese or no cheese. Rain is good and probably will keep on beating Nestea the next time they play. He can't change his play in mid swing and that is why he will lose every time.
What do you do if you expect a 2rax push? You do the best possible counter to 2rax push - which is a 14 hatch. It's just that a properly executed 2rax beats 14 hatch.
|
On December 14 2010 06:58 fdsdfg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 04:05 Coolness53 wrote:
Nestea got to the dumbest player I have seen in pros...He kept going the same strategy when being cheesed. he gets a higher grade than Rain, is stupid. Rain beat him fair and square cheese or no cheese. Rain is good and probably will keep on beating Nestea the next time they play. He can't change his play in mid swing and that is why he will lose every time. What do you do if you expect a 2rax push? You do the best possible counter to 2rax push - which is a 14 hatch. It's just that a properly executed 2rax beats 14 hatch.
He still could have made more spines. Which is irrelevant to the opening build. I feel as if IdrA is overexaggerating the effect of making a second spine crawler putting you "way behind." This is for a different timing of course than the "hit after the hatchery finishes."
|
TSL RAIN FIGHTING!!!!!!!!!!
|
wierd how clide vs leenock was probably the best series, by far better than the finals will be and it was in ro 64
|
This series shows that NesTea is clearly better than Rain in decision making
Wait, so going 14 Hatch every single game against a "cheeser" is a good decision? We can all agree that NesTea is better in macro, timings, and mechanics, but not decision making, at least not in that game.
|
Biased much? That was a terrible report, I usually like the ones for BW but this was basically saying what the majority was thinking and I think the majority is drunk on rage against cheese and foreigner love.
On December 14 2010 08:12 Kazzabiss wrote:Show nested quote +This series shows that NesTea is clearly better than Rain in decision making Wait, so going 14 Hatch every single game against a "cheeser" is a good decision? We can all agree that NesTea is better in macro, timings, and mechanics, but not decision making, at least not in that game.
Someone's going to quote ret or IdrA and make you believe that their word is god and 14 hatch is the safest build everrrrrrrrr.
|
In my opinion, the semifinal match between Jinro and Iron is a bit biased. Jinro did not display his B performance early in his games. His performance should be a C+
|
Sorry, but the ratings for the games and the players are very biased. I expected better :\
|
I agree with the others. This whole thing reeks of something that should be an Op-Ed article, not a news article for archive. Defeating the reigning GSL champion by using the tools of your disposal is C-? lmao. And 3 stars for a 4-0 shutout where Jinro had no chance of winning at any moment whatsoever?? lol
|
I think the OP had just watched idra's recent interview and decided that rain and hongUn were bad. I still don't like rain. I don't know about the ratings as it seems kinda biased to give a player a worse rating for winning, but scv all inning shows that your a douche.
|
On December 13 2010 22:55 Xxio wrote:
Guys, the ratings are meant to be biased. They are ratings, how could they not be? If you want objectivity read the recaps themselves. Please tell me if you find those biased. If they are, then we have a problem I need to fix.
That said, I see I ranked some games based on entertainment value not the star system, so I'll change some 0 stars to 2 stars and whatever else needs tweaking.
Glad you guys uh, enjoyed it.
Hey, still appreciate it man. Don't want to come off as complaining. The ratings were just, uh, eye-brow raising. Even if Rain played very cheesy, it's hard to give NesTea a higher rating if NesTeas wasn't even able to hold off the cheese. And I love Jinro and all, but you got to admit, if it wasn't Jinro playing those games you definately wouldn't have given that sort of play a "B".
|
On December 14 2010 08:12 Kazzabiss wrote:Show nested quote +This series shows that NesTea is clearly better than Rain in decision making Wait, so going 14 Hatch every single game against a "cheeser" is a good decision? We can all agree that NesTea is better in macro, timings, and mechanics, but not decision making, at least not in that game.
It is when that's the only chance you have at holding off the cheese. Ret, Idra, et. al. have all stated unequivocally in the innumerable threads made about Nestea v Rain that 14hatch is the only way to have a chance against 2rax. It's like reaper rush pre-1.1 and I expect it'll be similarly nerfed - there is no way to effectively counter this build assuming it is well executed (which in this context means bring more scvs).
TL;DR - Rain is just another Bitbybit.prime who happened to make it to the finals, don't defend him because 'a wins a win loool'. In the 2 games he tried to play legit against Nestea he got roflstomped. If he didn't have the 2rax scv "allin" (quotes because it's not actually all-in with mules) crutch, I doubt he'd have qualified.
While it's nice to know MC will trash him, I don't think I've been less excited for a GSL's finale :/
|
Great writeup as per usual. Hoping to see Rain get DEMOLISHED by MC. As for the Jinro debate, it's almost like MC countered every single one of his builds(bo win) so we couldn't really see what he had planned. Let's not forget that's pure luck. B is acceptable.
|
I love how biased the majority of foreign fans are, Foxer takes a game off MC 1-3 and is bad and a C+ (Tastosis say the same things about him), while Jinro got destroyed three games in a row before having one close match but is still our savior and a B. It's like as long as you're not Korean you get a jump on everyone else and Koreans have to dominate to get any respect from the foreign crowd.
|
On December 14 2010 13:20 kefkaesque wrote:
I love how biased the majority of foreign fans are, Foxer takes a game off MC 1-3 and is bad and a C+ (Tastosis say the same things about him), while Jinro got destroyed three games in a row before having one close match but is still our savior and a B. It's like as long as you're not Korean you get a jump on everyone else and Koreans have to dominate to get any respect from the foreign crowd.
While this is definitely true, you can't be surprised as they do somewhat represent us. I definitely agree that Artosis shouldn't make it so obvious as it's quite unprofessional, but I'm sure he doesn't care. I think Jinro is an amazing player but I feel Foxer is still superior, even in macro, but I know many will disagree with me on that, which isn't a surprise.
|
rain and nestea's game doesn't show nestea is better.. it just shows nestea has better mid/late game.
If people do cheese, then people who have seen it should be able to stop it.
Clearly nestea's amazing decision making didn't make a good decision when he saw the cheese. Early hatch on xel naga, the guy insane? There's good moves and there's dumb ones, and rain deserved the last win due to nestea's dumb move ;P
|
On December 13 2010 21:27 Numy wrote:
I think people have to watch the games to really understand the rating system. For me the reason Rain got lower than Nestea was because Rain got utterly destroyed in the longer game and in the cheeses it was more Nestea doing 1/2 mistakes than Rain playing anything close to good. So for me it makes sense that Rain got a lower rating. People need to understand that the better player doesn't always win and likewise the person that wins isn't always the better player.
The Fruit vs Hongun games are similar. Fruit outplayed himself more than Hongun did anything. Then MC vs Jinro was such a short affair so really any rating for Jinro is going to be hard and there will be bias since there's not much to say on the matter. MC played amazing and Jinro was just a step behind. Is being a step behind amazing horrible or is it good?
Problem with that, is you're coming from a conclusion that NesTea is indeed the better player. But how do you define that? If the "better plays" do not win games, why are they better? Better for what? For you?
Ratings are biased, analysis and recap are good and welcomed.
I'm sad Jinro had to lose so brutally.
|
On December 13 2010 23:55 Xxio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 23:24 RiceMuncher wrote:On December 13 2010 22:55 Xxio wrote:
Guys, the ratings are meant to be biased. They are ratings, how could they not be? If you want objectivity read the recaps themselves. Please tell me if you find those biased. If they are, then we have a problem I need to fix.
That said, I see I ranked some games based on entertainment value not the star system, so I'll change some 0 stars to 2 stars and whatever else needs tweaking.
Glad you guys uh, enjoyed it. We know ratings do have bias but they should be a rough guideline to how good the games were to watch. Kinda like the movie star rating system. 2 stars average, 3 stars above average/decent (Although your rating system has been stated in the OP and hence should be reasonably followed) Giving games 0 or 1 stars could potentially put off alot of people from watching those games - even though some might like watching cheese or uber pro walling or rushes. Infact most of these games with Tastosis's commentary should be at least 2 stars, if not more. But thankyou for somewhat bumping the stars. Although I still reckon Nestea v Rain game 5 should be higher than 1... By this logic every game should get a high rank - just to make sure someone who happens to like that style of play isn't deterred from watching it. That would make the rating system pointless. I thought it went without saying that these are biased rankings. I can't imagine someone seeing 1 star and thinking "this IS a horrible game". You say "should be given at least 2 stars". I don't agree. If our positions were reversed it would be me disagreeing because my feelings don't match yours. My point is that I can't rate games to reflect everyone's feelings, nor do I want to. This isn't some communal thing where I take an average. Yeah game 5 was a bit exciting I guess.
Well of course everyone is entitled to their own position/rating. But as a reviewer, shoudn't the score be made to reflect or be in line with the majority of readers? Now I don't have the right to judge who is the "majority" or what these "majority" give the games out of five, but judging from the responses it seems that the ratings aren't.
At the very least the ratings should be justified. They weren't in the write-up. Its hard to justify every score but giving 0 stars or close to it should be justified. Vice versa - giving a 5 stars or 4.5 should be too.
P.S I dont hate you Xxio, just giving my two cents
|
A "B" for Jinro is quite bias. He did not deserve that grade in a semi-final. Jinro got ROFLSTOMP, yes he didnt get to play "his game" which is why he lost yet he got a B. Yeah, a B for Bias!
Also as for Rain winning with cheese, get over it people, those are legit wins. If you can master the timing and micro of the push and if that can get you to the final of the GSL, I bet every single one of us would do it. Get off Rain's back, he deserves to be in the final.
|
Lol so much bias from the OP against Rain. If Rain becomes the next Flash, who also cheesed his way into the first OSL, I expect to see the opening poster eat his words publicly.
|
kinda laughable player grades
|
On December 13 2010 22:55 Xxio wrote:
Guys, the ratings are meant to be biased. They are ratings, how could they not be? If you want objectivity read the recaps themselves. Please tell me if you find those biased. If they are, then we have a problem I need to fix.
That said, I see I ranked some games based on entertainment value not the star system, so I'll change some 0 stars to 2 stars and whatever else needs tweaking.
Glad you guys uh, enjoyed it.
Really late to the party here, but I think most users, including me, aren't really annoyed that they're biased, just to the extent they're biased.
If you really want to say that bias is an excuse for giving any player rating, then we're gonna end up with the writer's favorite player in each write-up getting better grades than he deserves, and that's kinda... meh.
But thanks for the effort regardless.
|
Since the poster does not have clear categories for what makes up a good or poor game its hard to say the person is right or wrong. However, we can disagree. Personally i couldn't justify anyone getting blown out 4-0 a ranking of B despite the game play (game 4 wasn't too bad, but still doesn't make up for it.). While i do appreciate the hard work out the poster it probably would have saved a lot of argument to put down which of the players they liked better and style of games they enjoyed. While this review is more on the subjective side, i would be interested in creating a more objective review. If anyone is interested in getting some better data having an average of review scores, and perhaps if enough people are interested opinions from different game races as well. Everyone knows its pretty hard for one person to remain objective, thanks for the hard work posters.
Hope to hear from some people about the reviews.
|
The article was well-written, but I'm going to have to agree with most of the folks here... the ratings did not seem very appropriate. Not even mentioning the nestea/rain or jinro/mc debate, I can't believe you gave the jinro/choya match such a high rating. You call it one of the most interesting GSL matches ever? Just because the score was 3-2 and the games were rather long doesn't make it exciting.
It was boring and extremely frustrating to watch choya suck it up every single game. I haven't watched much of his play before, but I have no idea how he managed to get this far. I'm finally excited to see so many toss in the ro8, but honestly I'm embarrassed that a player like choya is representing toss. After early game-shenangians, he pretty much repeated the same strategy for all 5 games - mass a huge gateway army with some colossus off of 2 bases, and for some reason absolutely refuse to either expand or get upgrades (in every single game he either extremely delayed or never got thermal lance, charge, and forge upgrades).
It's one thing to forget an upgrade - stork is still a great player even though he forgot goon range, same for savior and adrenal glands - but at 20 minutes into a game, choya repeatedly watched his zealots WALK up to marines and his colossus shoot SIX range lasers. After you watch your army show off it's lack of upgrades MULTIPLE times, it's no longer an issue of nerves/forgetfulness - it's an issue of lack of skill/awareness.
His micro was pretty bad too for the caliber expected of a GSL player. His forcefields were garbage - did you see how much his forcefields overlapped with each other? He had to use 5 forcefields to accomplish what any high-level diamond player could have accomplished with 3.
Jinro played decently, but not great either. He should have won games 3 and 4, but lost them to poor decision making. He certainly deserved the win, but neither players nor the matchup itself deserved their ratings.
|
+ Show Spoiler +Playing "straight up" is such a starcraft way of saying "not cheap". Admit it OP, you were being a scrub in complaining about how Rain played. Rain playstyle countered nestea. Nestea even built two queens asap against a 2 rax marine play. Are you kidding me? Good decision making? Really?
|
For me personally i consider cheese to be utilizing a strategy to end the game early without scouting your opponent. For example; going 6 pool. You pretty much decided to end the game early regardless of what your opponent decided. On the other hand, killing an opponent early because of an opportunity is completely different. If you scout a protoss who went nexus first then you might decided to change your build order to get some troops out fast. I wouldn't really consider that to be cheese. Any thoughts?
|
On December 15 2010 05:20 Liquid_Adun wrote:
Since the poster does not have clear categories for what makes up a good or poor game its hard to say the person is right or wrong. However, we can disagree. Personally i couldn't justify anyone getting blown out 4-0 a ranking of B despite the game play (game 4 wasn't too bad, but still doesn't make up for it.). While i do appreciate the hard work out the poster it probably would have saved a lot of argument to put down which of the players they liked better and style of games they enjoyed. While this review is more on the subjective side, i would be interested in creating a more objective review. If anyone is interested in getting some better data having an average of review scores, and perhaps if enough people are interested opinions from different game races as well. Everyone knows its pretty hard for one person to remain objective, thanks for the hard work posters.
Hope to hear from some people about the reviews.
Uh, that's exactly what he has? The guidelines for the the ratings are right there for everyone to see.
|
On December 15 2010 07:10 Liquid_Adun wrote:
For me personally i consider cheese to be utilizing a strategy to end the game early without scouting your opponent. For example; going 6 pool. You pretty much decided to end the game early regardless of what your opponent decided. On the other hand, killing an opponent early because of an opportunity is completely different. If you scout a protoss who went nexus first then you might decided to change your build order to get some troops out fast. I wouldn't really consider that to be cheese. Any thoughts?
Completely agree. Don't worry, your arguments are sound. It's just that TLers tend to twist things into the favor of whoever they are supporting.
|
drlame Sweden. December 15 2010 07:21. Posts 377 PM Profile Quote #
On December 15 2010 05:20 Liquid_Adun wrote:
Since the poster does not have clear categories for what makes up a good or poor game its hard to say the person is right or wrong. However, we can disagree. Personally i couldn't justify anyone getting blown out 4-0 a ranking of B despite the game play (game 4 wasn't too bad, but still doesn't make up for it.). While i do appreciate the hard work out the poster it probably would have saved a lot of argument to put down which of the players they liked better and style of games they enjoyed. While this review is more on the subjective side, i would be interested in creating a more objective review. If anyone is interested in getting some better data having an average of review scores, and perhaps if enough people are interested opinions from different game races as well. Everyone knows its pretty hard for one person to remain objective, thanks for the hard work posters.
Hope to hear from some people about the reviews.
Uh, that's exactly what he has? The guidelines for the the ratings are right there for everyone to see.
Well let me try to explain something to you, using the same category system a game vs fruit dealer and bitbybitprime in the round of 16. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=175509 we can see that the game was rated 0 stars.
"Good Riddance." - No Stars
TSL_Fruitdealer < 2-0 > BitByBitPrime.WE
Game 1 @ Jungle Basin + Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +
Fruitdealer begins the series with a banana and two apples in a curious position on his desk, which turns out to be the best part of the series. To start the first game, Fruitdealer goes hatch-first, while BitByBit expands to his natural after his first marine pops, then throws down a quick second barracks. FD is diligent in scouting for proxy cheese, but once he scouts the expansion, he begins to pump drones safely, also producing a fairly early third queen. At a random timing, B3 moves out with a group of marines, and soon follows up with conga line of basically all his scvs. FD notices this and throws down two spine crawlers, but the attack comes before they can finish. As the sum total of the terran host moves up the ramp, FD gathers his queens and pulls drones to surround the marines, while his queens and zerglings take out the scvs in front. FD loses a ton of stuff but BitByBit, naturally, loses everything and gg's as zerglings hunt down his remaining marines.
No Stars - Awful game.
Game 2 @ Xel'Naga Caverns + Show Spoiler [Show Recap] +
Fruitdealer again goes for hatch-first play, while BitByBit walls in at the base of his ramp, then goes for 1-1-1 play. B3 moves out with the intention of pressuring the zerg natural with a marine and a few scvs, but retreats after being met by a couple drones. White Fruitdealer gets a baneling nest, BitByBit gets a cloaked banshee, and harasses, getting 11 drone kills at the zerg natural before barely escaping. Meanwhile, B3 moves out with several marines, and allows a zergling to run straight into his main, scouting two additional barracks with tech labs for upgrades. B3 next gets a single raven and two medivacs, and then, a little later at a mysterious timing presumably known only to the terran, pushes out with his army and...
You guessed it!
ALL HIS SCVS. Except this time around, Fruit has banelings, and with his scv mass bringing up the rear, BitByBit has nowhere to retreat his marines too. Oops. The terran push is demolished with plenty of room to spare. Fruidealer eats a banana to celebrate.
No Stars - Did I gain great satisfaction from watching these games? Yes. Are they worth watching for the average viewer? No.
Player Grades - Hide Spoiler [Show Player Grades] -
TSL_Fruitdealer - A-
FD didn't need to do a lot here; indeed, in his post-match interview, he confessed to remembering little of what occurred. But seeing as how B3's awful rushes had overcome two zergs in the previous round, I suppose some credit must be given to FD's management in being able to defend so easily. But more importantly, FD deserves a substantial vote of thanks for preserving the integrity of the GSL.
BitByBitPrime.WE - F
why wasnt the game rated 4 stars because it also meets the criteria for that as well?
4stars - Excellent play demonstrated by at least one of the players, and very likely both. A must watch.
Surely one of only very few people receiving an A is worthy of being watched? Unless, there is something wrong with the system as i have suggested.
Thanks for the feed back!
|
|
|
What, NestTea gets an F for decision making in this series. In other series and season 2, he did much better. July Zerg is a lot better for early game situations like this, and doesn't predictably hatch first every single time. An F goes for repeating it when it fails.
|
Ret and Idra keep getting quoted when they have always gone hatch first regardless of what their opponent does. And they both lost hard against 2rax, so that blows up their theory. BTW Ret went 2W3L in the tiebreakers for code A, making him tied for last place in the top 64. I'd take July Zerg's opinion over Ret and Idra anyday and he has no trouble going pool first.
Finally, people keep misquoting Idra. Their conclusion was pool first is vulnerable to a completely different strat which is double bunker wall ins at the ramp, not that it was the only way to beat 2 rax. And the only reason players like Ret and Idra are vulnerable is they always blind hatch 1st without a scout and without a drone to spare. All it takes to defeat double bunker is *a single drone*. They won't even spare that.
|
Yeah i have to agree with what the majority of you are saying...Jinro, by all means, a great fucking player..but he dropped those 4 games like fucking pennies.
|
About Rain: I watch the entire Rain vs Hongun set, and neither player really impressed me much. Their mechanics didn't seem to be as solid as many other pros I'm used to watching. If Rain gets a lower rating than Nestea even for winning that set, I'm guessing that's fine (I didn't see that set so I can't say).
Jinro, on the other hand, in no way deserved that B rating.
From the Jinro interview:
How would you describe what happened today?
What Minchul always tells me: "You early game chobo, late game gosu." Also, I thought I'd need to take economic risks to get ahead macro wise, but it turns out vs what he had planned I'd been better off being super safe... oh well.
So there you have it: early game chobo. I think (I watched this set as well, and the Jinro vs Choya) the main problem was him taking "economic risks" when he should have been delaying his natural. Jinro is my favorite Terran player right now, but he should have gotten a D or F for that set, or at the very leas Xxio could have just declined to give a rating because that set was so hard to judge.
May Jinro learn from his mistakes! Go Jinro!!!
|
Hatch first deserves to be risky just like cc or nex first. No race deserves to be handed the best economic opener without risk. Seeing idra rage QQ makes his games interesting.
|
As much as I'd love to see a Terran win, MC looks so strong at all points in his game, I think if given the chance Rain could pull off a few close wins but otherwise MC is going to drop the hammer as usual.
That said I don't really know who I want to win so...
Gogo Rain and MC fightinggggg!! (each other)
|
Has NesTea not heard of the 11 pool opening? It is economically just marginally weaker then 14 hatch (150 mins at the 7min mark) but so much more flexible.
Noob.
|
giving only a 2 star on HongUnPrime vs FruitDealer on game 4 @ Lost Temple is a bit strange, I thought that was one amazing defensive situation HongUnPrime was in and he managed to win! I was so pumped that game I had chills. I would personally have rated it a 4/5 but not a 2.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/Rain_1.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/Rain_2.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/Rain_3.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/Rain_4.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/Rain_5.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/HongUn_1.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/HongUn_2.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/HongUn_3.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/HongUn_4.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/HongUn_5.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/MC1.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/MC2.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/MC3.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/MC4.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/TR_1.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/TR_2.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/TR_3.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/TR_4.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/TR_5.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/Xxio/S3Ro4/TR_6.jpg)
