EPT[T] KFTC Says Blizzard Must Change B.net Terms - Page 2
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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chongu
Malaysia2600 Posts
▶ Unfair termination of service ㅇBlizzard states that they can remove the service for whatever reason as long as they send a notification regarding the reasons for removal of service. ⇒ Change it so that the users are notified well beforehand, and a reasonable refund is given for the discontinuation of service. ◆ Reason ㅇTermination of service is same as termination of contract so the reasons must be limited, and the users must be notified beforehand. Also, the producer has the duty to give a refund for the remainder of the service. Therefore, the current terms that state that the service may be removed at any time for any reason is unfair, and the terms are invalid. What does it mean by this? Seems a little unfair to Blizzard don't you think? | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On June 21 2010 17:36 chongu wrote: What does it mean by this? Seems a little unfair to Blizzard don't you think? You must be trippin balls right now if you think this is unfair. Company A provides you with a contracted service. Your existing contract is $7000 for their service for the entire decade. After 2 years of service, Company A decides they don't like your face and terminates your contract. According to you, you aren't deserving of a refund even though the agreement was 7k for 10 years and you only got 2 years out of it. Also, you had no say whatsoever in them just dropping you. No matter how you look at it, the original contract is 100% breached and legally is null and void. Compensations must then be issued. | ||
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TheKnight
Romania77 Posts
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
On June 21 2010 17:05 Waxangel wrote: dude.... a guy just got banned for posting what you just posted -.- Sorry, I'll elaborate more, it was just kind of a in the moment comment I'm sorry. What I wanted to say is that what they're asking for really does seem like a lot. The whole dispute between KeSPA and Blizzard was the idea of intellectual rights and who the replays belong to, who the gameplay belongs to, who the accounts belong to. Blizzard all along has stated that it is their game and making a profit off of broadcasting their game shouldn't be allowed. We already know that KeSPA is tied in to the Korean government too right? So this KFTC is trying their best to help KeSPA out, which to this day is still the final group that has yet to been able to properly come to an agreement or even negotiate with anyone. KeSPA asked for too much and in the end were deemed to be unreasonable and not able to be worked with by Blizzard. A week later Blizzard and Gretech/GOM have no issues negotiating and partnering and working with each other. Now we've seen that even the OSL is in open discussions with Gretech/GOM. KeSPA is the only one that nobody can properly work with, so this all just seems like a ploy to help out KeSPA under the court of law. They are trying to make it so Blizzard is giving away many of the intellectual rights they lay claim to, and as a private company, they reserve the right to hold those intellectual rights. Right away the first idea that they posted was already asking for too much, and I would find it really hard to imagine Blizzard giving up these rights. Unless this can cause South Korea to stop the import of Blizzard products, which would cripple tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars upon release, I'm not sure Blizzard will budge. Sorry for the short post earlier, hope this makes up for it. Edit: And sorry for not reading the blizzard comments on it, I just reformatted my computer and have yet to install asian languages so I couldn't read the website, its all in gibberish and squares to me. If Blizzard really did already complete the changes in the ToS then they are essentially signing over to KeSPA the rights to broadcast Starcraft and the replays etc. without paying the transfer fee. If that is the case why wouldn't KeSPA take advantage of that. Wouldn't that completely nullify the deal that GOM/Gretech and Blizzard made roughly a month ago? | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On June 21 2010 17:46 ZlaSHeR wrote: Sorry, I'll elaborate more, it was just kind of a in the moment comment I'm sorry. What I wanted to say is that what they're asking for really does seem like a lot. The whole dispute between KeSPA and Blizzard was the idea of intellectual rights and who the replays belong to, who the gameplay belongs to, who the accounts belong to. Blizzard all along has stated that it is their game and making a profit off of broadcasting their game shouldn't be allowed. We already know that KeSPA is tied in to the Korean government too right? So this KFTC is trying their best to help KeSPA out, which to this day is still the final group that has yet to been able to properly come to an agreement or even negotiate with anyone. KeSPA asked for too much and in the end were deemed to be unreasonable and not able to be worked with by Blizzard. A week later Blizzard and Gretech/GOM have no issues negotiating and partnering and working with each other. Now we've seen that even the OSL is in open discussions with Gretech/GOM. KeSPA is the only one that nobody can properly work with, so this all just seems like a ploy to help out KeSPA under the court of law. They are trying to make it so Blizzard is giving away many of the intellectual rights they lay claim to, and as a private company, they reserve the right to hold those intellectual rights. Right away the first idea that they posted was already asking for too much, and I would find it really hard to imagine Blizzard giving up these rights. Unless this can cause South Korea to stop the import of Blizzard products, which would cripple tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars upon release, I'm not sure Blizzard will budge. Sorry for the short post earlier, hope this makes up for it. It's not a private company telling them what to do, it's the government. It would be illegal not to comply. Believe me, even losing control over Korean BW would be worse than ignoring this. | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
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dmfg
United Kingdom591 Posts
This is great news for everyone. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5838 Posts
On June 21 2010 17:46 ZlaSHeR wrote: Sorry, I'll elaborate more, it was just kind of a in the moment comment I'm sorry. What I wanted to say is that what they're asking for really does seem like a lot. The whole dispute between KeSPA and Blizzard was the idea of intellectual rights and who the replays belong to, who the gameplay belongs to, who the accounts belong to. Blizzard all along has stated that it is their game and making a profit off of broadcasting their game shouldn't be allowed. We already know that KeSPA is tied in to the Korean government too right? So this KFTC is trying their best to help KeSPA out, which to this day is still the final group that has yet to been able to properly come to an agreement or even negotiate with anyone. KeSPA asked for too much and in the end were deemed to be unreasonable and not able to be worked with by Blizzard. A week later Blizzard and Gretech/GOM have no issues negotiating and partnering and working with each other. Now we've seen that even the OSL is in open discussions with Gretech/GOM. KeSPA is the only one that nobody can properly work with, so this all just seems like a ploy to help out KeSPA under the court of law. They are trying to make it so Blizzard is giving away many of the intellectual rights they lay claim to, and as a private company, they reserve the right to hold those intellectual rights. Right away the first idea that they posted was already asking for too much, and I would find it really hard to imagine Blizzard giving up these rights. Unless this can cause South Korea to stop the import of Blizzard products, which would cripple tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars upon release, I'm not sure Blizzard will budge. Sorry for the short post earlier, hope this makes up for it. Edit: And sorry for not reading the blizzard comments on it, I just reformatted my computer and have yet to install asian languages so I couldn't read the website, its all in gibberish and squares to me. If Blizzard really did already complete the changes in the ToS then they are essentially signing over to KeSPA the rights to broadcast Starcraft and the replays etc. without paying the transfer fee. If that is the case why wouldn't KeSPA take advantage of that. Wouldn't that completely nullify the deal that GOM/Gretech and Blizzard made roughly a month ago? It was not KeSPA that was unreasonable during the negotiations with Blizzard. Blizzard's demands were ridiculous. They knew KeSPA would not agree to them. They changed their demands when negotiating with Gretech. I'm unable to tell you what specifically is different from the terms they gave to KeSPA because Gretech decided to abide to the NDA, but one thing I'm certain of - they signed a three year contract with Blizzard, while KeSPA were only allowed to sign a one year contract if anything. Also OGN and MBC ARE part of KeSPA, so saying that KeSPA cannot properly work with anyone is a fallacy. Not to mention the fact that the old ToS is very unfair. | ||
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dmfg
United Kingdom591 Posts
On June 21 2010 18:11 ZlaSHeR wrote: I'm trying to figure out, in what ways would it be illegal for Blizzard to maintain property rights to replays and accounts created? The South Korean government is able to tell a private American company in Activision Blizzard that their ToS are illegal in which country? And I don't see how they are illegal, if they were, then would that mean that KeSPA was correct all along, and that Blizzard selling Gretech the broadcasting rights to SC:BW and SC2 in August is actually illegal? If that were the case how come we haven't heard about the fallout from that yet? I think this is more of a courtesy gesture than anything else. EULAs are not absolutely enforcable, and if a consumer breaks a EULA that a court later finds to be unfair the EULA is not legally binding. This sounds like the KTFC saying "look guys, these EULA terms are unfair and you won't be able to enforce them if you get taken to court, better change them now and save everyone a ton of trouble". | ||
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dogabutila
United States1438 Posts
// although the first 2 provisions are pretty much standard in game EULA's, so i dont see them as getting stricken or deemed unenforceable, pretty much all of the latter ones (Termination etc) have a shot at getting litigated. Specifically, User Created content with a provided ingame editor can't really be copyrighted by the user if it uses anything created and copyrighted by blizzard. I imagine one might be able to make a case for creation of new units, but simply put, making an obs map or even a new map itself is not really copyrightable by the user. As far as outside game stuff goes, fan art falls under artistic licence, however if somebody made a comic book and story etc, they would probably need licence from blizz to do so. Rights to users accounts may be changed, but not to the extent that SK govt might want. If people had unilateral rights to accounts, that would mean people could never be banned for any reason at all. Termination of service and responsibility duties stuff has pretty much been litigated over and over and theres precident that these provisions are unenforceable anyways. | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
On June 21 2010 18:13 maybenexttime wrote: It was not KeSPA that was unreasonable during the negotiations with Blizzard. Blizzard's demands were ridiculous. They knew KeSPA would not agree to them. They changed their demands when negotiating with Gretech. I'm unable to tell you what specifically is different from the terms they gave to KeSPA because Gretech decided to abide to the NDA, but one thing I'm certain of - they signed a three year contract with Blizzard, while KeSPA were only allowed to sign a one year contract if anything. Also OGN and MBC ARE part of KeSPA, so saying that KeSPA cannot properly work with anyone is a fallacy. Not to mention the fact that the old ToS is very unfair. Using the point that OGN and MBC are a part of KeSPA is a fallacy in itself since Gretech is a part of CJ which is a part of KeSPA, all the korean organizations are linked in some way, that doesn't mean that they all agree with each other on every account. While I do agree that these changes are better for the consumer and user, and that it benefits us as players, my point was that I just find the moves contradictory if true, since that would essentially nullify all changes and negotiations that they've been working so hard on for the past several months. Don't think of me as someone who disagrees with these changes and thinks that it should be put back to what it was, it is just in my opinion that Blizzard is making quite a move against themselves by doing this. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5838 Posts
On June 21 2010 18:18 ZlaSHeR wrote: Using the point that OGN and MBC are a part of KeSPA is a fallacy in itself since Gretech is a part of CJ which is a part of KeSPA, all the korean organizations are linked in some way, that doesn't mean that they all agree with each other on every account. While I do agree that these changes are better for the consumer and user, and that it benefits us as players, my point was that I just find the moves contradictory if true, since that would essentially nullify all changes and negotiations that they've been working so hard on for the past several months. Don't think of me as someone who disagrees with these changes and thinks that it should be put back to what it was, it is just in my opinion that Blizzard is making quite a move against themselves by doing this. CJ claimed that they have nothing to do with Gretech negotiating with Blizzard. They do not have 51% shares in it. Also, as said above, it's a courtesy of the Korean government because they could've just waited for Blizzard to publish the game and then prove their ToS is illegal in a court of law, which would probably hinder Blizzard more than simply chaning it now. | ||
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urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On June 21 2010 18:18 ZlaSHeR wrote: Using the point that OGN and MBC are a part of KeSPA is a fallacy in itself since Gretech is a part of CJ which is a part of KeSPA, all the korean organizations are linked in some way, that doesn't mean that they all agree with each other on every account. While I do agree that these changes are better for the consumer and user, and that it benefits us as players, my point was that I just find the moves contradictory if true, since that would essentially nullify all changes and negotiations that they've been working so hard on for the past several months. Don't think of me as someone who disagrees with these changes and thinks that it should be put back to what it was, it is just in my opinion that Blizzard is making quite a move against themselves by doing this. Since there's still a rock solid, unchallenged clause preventing anyone from holding leagues/tournaments without Blizzard's consent (if I read the TOS correctly, my bad if I didn't), then none of this really effects the esports scene. Just more of the accomplishment of single users doing Starcraft 2 related stuff on the innerwebz. | ||
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On June 21 2010 18:11 ZlaSHeR wrote: The South Korean government is able to tell a private American company in Activision Blizzard that their ToS are illegal in which country? And I don't see how they are illegal, if they were, then would that mean that KeSPA was correct all along, and that Blizzard selling Gretech the broadcasting rights to SC:BW and SC2 in August is actually illegal? If that were the case how come we haven't heard about the fallout from that yet? The South Korean government has jurisdiction over it's own country. If an American company wants to operate in Korea, they need to respect Korea's laws. What is legal is defined by the government. | ||
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dogabutila
United States1438 Posts
By funny I mean terrible. In an amusing way. | ||
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okum
France5779 Posts
▶ Exclusion of the duties of the producer ㅇ Blizzard states that they are not responsible for any loss or damage caused by the game. ⇒ Change so that they are only excluded from taking the responsibility when the damage was not purposely caused. Does loss of income, academic failure, or deterioration of physical fitness count as purposely caused damage? I'm almost certain Blizzard makes their games cause those things on purpose  | ||
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InfiniteIce
United States794 Posts
I wish something like this would happen over here in the states, but this really makes me smile. Thanks a lot l10f for catching that news and translating it for us. Much appreciated!!! <3 (Note: Read all posts in this thread, including Kennigit's at the top of this page. :O Edited for spelling errors.) | ||
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
we live in interesting times fellas... this is history in the making. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5838 Posts
On June 21 2010 18:46 dogabutila wrote: It would be funny if blizz got fed up and just said "fuck SK" and never released SC2 there. And got their rights for BW, and never let anybody use them in SK. By funny I mean terrible. In an amusing way. Not an option. They sold like half of their SC1 copies in Korea. South Korea is probably expected to stand for at least like 1/3 of total SC2 sales. | ||
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