• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:42
CEST 08:42
KST 15:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO12 Preview: Maru, Trigger, Rogue, NightMare12Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, sOs, Reynor, Solar15[ASL19] Ro8 Preview: Unyielding3Official Ladder Map Pool Update (April 28, 2025)17[ASL19] Ro8 Preview: Rejuvenation8
Community News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A Results (2025)4$1,250 WardiTV May [May 6th-May 18th]4Clem wins PiG Sty Festival #66Weekly Cups (April 28-May 4): ByuN & Astrea break through1Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game29
StarCraft 2
General
How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A Results (2025) Code S RO12 Preview: Maru, Trigger, Rogue, NightMare Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, sOs, Reynor, Solar
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S:Season 1 - RO12 - Group A INu's Battles#12 < ByuN vs herO > [GSL 2025] Code S:Season 1 - RO12 - Group B GSL 2025 details announced - 2 seasons pre-EWC 2025 GSL Season 2 (Qualifiers)
Strategy
[G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 472 Dead Heat Mutation # 471 Delivery Guaranteed Mutation # 470 Certain Demise Mutation # 469 Frostbite
Brood War
General
Recent recommended BW games Preserving Battlereports.com OGN to release AI-upscaled StarLeague from Feb 24 Battlenet Game Lobby Simulator [G] GenAI subtitles for Korean BW content
Tourneys
[ASL19] Ro8 Day 4 [BSL20] RO32 Group F - Saturday 20:00 CET [BSL20] RO32 Group E - Sunday 20:00 CET [CSLPRO] $1000 Spring is Here!
Strategy
[G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player Creating a full chart of Zerg builds [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Nintendo Switch Thread Grand Theft Auto VI Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Elon Musk's lies, propaganda, etc.
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Books] Wool by Hugh Howey Surprisingly good films/Hidden Gems
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
BLinD-RawR 50K Post Watch Party The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
What High-Performing Teams (…
TrAiDoS
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
BW PvZ Balance hypothetic…
Vasoline73
Test Entry for subject
xumakis
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 13681 users

[OSL] Not Your Father's ZvZ

Forum Index > News
116 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All

[OSL] Not Your Father's ZvZ

Text byJWD
August 20th, 2009 20:39 GMT
B A C C H U S      O S L      2 0 0 9

G R A N D      F I N A L S

[image loading]

Thanks SilverskY!

(Z)Jaedong                                                 (Z)YellOw[ArnC]
vs
Career vZ: 81-25 (76%)                                          Career vZ: 44-44 (50%)
Last 10 vZ: 5-5                                                        Last 10 vZ: 7-3

With its many great Zerg qualifiers and Zerg-friendly maps, it's no surprise the Bacchus OSL 2009 has produced a Zerg versus Zerg Finals — and yet, this outcome has been the cause of much ire and depression here at Teamliquid. I'm here to say: damn the naysayers! The Bacchus OSL 2009's (ZvZ) Grand Finals is going to kick ass, and here are four reasons why. Hype!




1. This Is Not Your Father's ZvZ

[image loading]

Zerg versus Zerg is simply not what it was when it earned its reputation as a relatively unexciting, skill-less, rock-paper-scissors matchup. Just for kicks, I went into TLPD and pulled up the oldest VOD on record which includes ZvZ muta micro (the oldest ZvZ VOD is Yellow's crazy +1 speedling attack, which ends the game before mutas). Here's what I found: nearly stationary mutalisks which consistently die to scourge — a level of micro which, in today's ZvZ scene, would be considered not microing at all. That is boring.

Fast forward two years. The dynamic, weaving, muta-vs.-muta fights of today are still totally absent — watch Chojja defeat Savior with fleets of scourge in the final set of the MSL's first ZvZ Finals, at the 2005 CYON MSL. Another two years, to 2007 and the twilight of Savior's reign: most mutalisk-scourge battles (Savior vs. Jaedong in PL on 10.20.07, for example) still boil down to "attack-move and see who has more stuff". Even ZvZs from 2008 regularly include scourge-on-muta hits in open air, events which are almost absent from top-class ZvZs today (and which, if they are present, are game-breaking).

The trend is obvious: ZvZ mutalisk micro has changed dramatically over the past several years, and with it the entire matchup. As ZvZ's skill ceiling has skyrocketed, so has its entertainment value. Today's S-class Zerg versus Zerg players understand the matchup's metagame like nobody before them, defy "impossible" build order disadvantages, use a host of clever tricks and builds, and beat lesser Zergs with a regularity that betrays the difficulty of their craft. Is it any wonder that these players (Jaedong, Calm, Effort, Yarnc) have between them many of the recent months' most exciting games, and easily the greatest ZvZs of all time?

Jaedong's Avalon MSL semifinal match with Calm may be the best ZvZ series to date, but this OSL Finals is going to blow it out of the water. With so much at stake, so much raw skill between them, and so much practice time on their hands, Jaedong and Yarnc are poised to push Zerg versus Zerg's envelope just a bit further than ever before.




2. A Golden Opportunity for Jaedong

[image loading]

The third-ever Golden Mouse has been forged. If Jaedong claims his third OSL title tomorrow, he will become the youngest player by far to hoist the trophy — both NaDa and July were 21 when they won their third OSLs (the 2nd Shinhan Bank in 2006 and EVER in 2008, respectively) but Jaedong is just 19. The speed with which the Legend Killer has raced to the brink of winning StarCraft's most prestigious individual award is even more impressive in terms of career lengths: while it took both NaDa and July over five years of professional gaming to earn their Golden Mouses, if Jaedong beats Yarnc tomorrow he'll have matched their feat in just over three years. (Jaedong would also join Boxer as the only players ever to win back-to-back OSLs.)

With a Golden Mouse and second consecutive OSL victory on the line, this Finals is Jaedong's opportunity to officially place himself amongst the greatest individual StarCraft players of all time. Having lost in GOM S3, dropped out of the Avalon MSL, and failed his team badly at the Proleague Grand Finals, this series is also JD's only way to salvage a result from this Starleague season worthy of his overall performance in it. In this Finals, Jaedong's unmatched competitiveness will push him harder than ever before.




3. Yarnc Under Pressure

Though it's Jaedong who has a Golden Mouse on the line, Yarnc is actually under greater pressure to perform in this OSL Finals — and not simply because he has to play ZvJ.

[image loading]

"Don't let us down"

First, Yarnc has all of his vanquished teammates' OSL hopes riding on his shoulders. He had a relatively easy run through Hite's side of the bracket — 2-1 vs. Go.go in the Ro8 and 3-0 vs. Type-b in the Ro4 — which means that his teammates' and coaches' expectations for his performance in this match are running high. If Yarnc bombs the Finals, he'll dash those expectations, leave doubts that another Hite member (Leta?) could have given Jaedong a better match, and, most importantly, embarrass Hite by stripping their little in-house tournament of any significance to this OSL's final outcome. Tomorrow night Yarnc plays not only for his first OSL title, but for Hite's dignity.

Second, Fake Yellow has been served this OSL Finals on a silver platter — it's obviously the best title shot of his career, and will in all likelihood retain that title forever. Thanks to this OSL's maps and poor showings from its few Protosses, Yarnc didn't have to put his horrific ZvP to the test once in his entire Finals run. Go.go's cheesy play in the Ro16 gave Yarnc a powderpuff Terran opponent in the Ro8 (instead of Bisu), and Type-b helped punch his Finals ticket by offing Leta and then rolling over and dying in the Ro4. Aside from his stint in the Ro16's group of death, Yarnc's Bacchus OSL 2009 has been an unrepeatable cakewalk — and that makes this Finals his one big chance. If Yellow[arnc] can't win an OSL under these ideal conditions, it's safe to say he never will.




4. Ro16 Grudge Match

[image loading]

Jaedong is even with Fake Yellow in their career series (4-4), but two of those games (two Yarnc wins) were at JD's tournament debut, a 2006 OSL preliminary. Remember the last game Jaedong and Yarnc played? It was their meeting in this OSL's Group A on July 7, and a solid Yarnc win. Jaedong was on the tail end of an awful 17-day, 12-game run that included several key Proleague games, a GOM series with Violet, the conclusion of his Avalon MSL Ro32 group, and his other two OSL Ro16 games. Up 2-0 in the group and exhausted, Jaedong had little incentive to prepare for this game — but likely regretted his poor performance immediately afterwards. Fans on TL cried "slump" and wondered "what's wrong with Jaedong?"

Now almost two months later, Jaedong finally has a shot to avenge that loss — and on a much bigger stage. For Yarnc, the Finals are the ideal opportunity to prove that his Ro16 win was not a fluke.




One More Thing:

+ Show Spoiler [Contains MSL semifinal results] +
Remember this poll? Its results:

[image loading]

If you're amongst the 33%, give yourself a pat on the back. This season both the OSL and MSL have Zerg versus Zerg Finals, something that has never happened before (the OSL proper has never has a ZvZ Finals, and the MSL has had only two: Chojja > Savior at CYON, and Savior > Silver at Pringles 2). If two StarCraft seasons ago was the Golden Age of Protoss, this must be the Golden Age of Zerg — and if history's any indication, we can expect Zergs to struggle mightily in an unfavorable map pool over the next few seasons. Enjoy Zerg dominance while it lasts!

Oh, and some more fun facts, about Zergs at the 08-09 Proleague playoffs: all three super ace games, and three of four regular ace games, featured a Zerg player. Of these seven pivotal sets, three were ZvZs.




I really do think this OSL Finals matchup will defy everyone's expectations and produce an excellent series (fingers crossed that Yarnc brings his A-game). Don't miss it!

Peace,
JWD
Facebook Twitter Reddit
✌
toshi
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Poland469 Posts
August 20 2009 20:43 GMT
#2
IT'S SHOW TIME !
pro-
Pufftrees
Profile Joined March 2009
2449 Posts
August 20 2009 20:44 GMT
#3
Nice write up, I love watching modern ZvZ personally, so micro and quick decision intensive.

Go Jaedong!
Chance favors the prepared mind.
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
August 20 2009 20:45 GMT
#4
On August 21 2009 05:43 toshi wrote:
IT'S SHOW TIME !

YEEAAHHHHHH!!!!
✌
Klive5ive
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom6056 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-20 20:47:55
August 20 2009 20:46 GMT
#5
Yeah I totally agree. ZvZ is an incredible match-up and this series will likely be the highest level ZvZ ever played. Yarnc has great mutalisks in ZvT so there's no reason, with practice, he can't step up. He also has his brother who will likely want to help his younger bro get a title of his own.

It's just a shame they don't bump it up to Bo7/Bo9 to make it last a bit longer.
Don't hate the player - Hate the game
SilverskY
Profile Joined September 2008
Korea (South)3086 Posts
August 20 2009 20:46 GMT
#6
JWD, I posted another version of the splash in the GFX forum, you can quickly go check it out, and replace it with that one if you like it better.
Graphics
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
August 20 2009 20:47 GMT
#7
Jaedong vs OSL curse.
Yarnc vs Yellow curse.
ImGoNNaLoSeNoW
Profile Joined July 2009
Finland61 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-20 20:48:53
August 20 2009 20:48 GMT
#8
JD is my favo player nr 1
Yarnc is nr 2
Result will break my heart same time when im very happy
Only reason why ZvZ is watchable is because it is so intense, and unforgiven
Itachii
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Poland12466 Posts
August 20 2009 20:48 GMT
#9
something died inside me when i realized we will have 2 ZvZ finals
La parole nous a été donnée pour déguiser notre pensée
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13918 Posts
August 20 2009 20:49 GMT
#10
OMG ITS GOING DOWN!!!!
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
August 20 2009 20:51 GMT
#11
way to spoiler the MSL semi finals :/

I didn't get to reading BR's yet or watching any vods, it was like 1 day ago T_T
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
August 20 2009 20:51 GMT
#12
On August 21 2009 05:46 SilverskY wrote:
JWD, I posted another version of the splash in the GFX forum, you can quickly go check it out, and replace it with that one if you like it better.

Done! Looks super, thanks man.
✌
SilverskY
Profile Joined September 2008
Korea (South)3086 Posts
August 20 2009 20:52 GMT
#13
On August 21 2009 05:51 JWD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2009 05:46 SilverskY wrote:
JWD, I posted another version of the splash in the GFX forum, you can quickly go check it out, and replace it with that one if you like it better.

Done! Looks super, thanks man.

No problem! Great job on the write-up!
Graphics
iSiN
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1075 Posts
August 20 2009 20:52 GMT
#14
Jaedong Hwaiting!
Grouty @HoN/PCKJ <--<333 || Jaedong Fan Cafe GFX
zazen
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Brazil695 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-20 20:56:32
August 20 2009 20:53 GMT
#15
Thanks JWD for the excellent write-up. I want to watch this live, and for all the reasons you listed, I'm expecting this ZvZ to be the best ZvZ BO series ever played in the history of this game. There's just too much at stake, these will be the games JD and Yarnc gonna show the world what they are all about.

More than anything, I expect the winner, whoever it is, to be the one that comes out with more intelligent mindgames and plays in unpredictable fashion. At this level of skill, mechanical perfection is a given fact, and just not enough to win.

P.S: Can it be Protoss time again now?
"The quest for nexus has brought many men of genius to insanity... HUEHUEHUE!"
Zeburial
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Sweden1126 Posts
August 20 2009 20:54 GMT
#16
Jaedong will win, else irl! \o/
Empires are not brought down by outside forces - they are destroyed by weaknesses from within
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
August 20 2009 21:01 GMT
#17
On August 21 2009 05:53 zazen wrote:
More than anything, I expect the winner, whoever it is, to be the one that comes out with more intelligent mindgames and plays in unpredictable fashion. At this level of skill, mechanical perfection is a given fact, and just not enough to win.

I agree. Micro sometimes decides super-high-level ZvZ but lately smart builds (i.e. not 12-hatching every game) and clever little tricks (hiding lings is a big one) have been playing a big role. The best ZvZ players are really good at predicting their opponents' builds, and the OSL winner will be no exception...in this regard Yarnc got the best of JD at their last meeting — we'll have to see if JD can turn the tables here.
✌
Pokernubz
Profile Joined May 2009
Canada88 Posts
August 20 2009 21:03 GMT
#18
excellent write up, thanks

I love yarnc one of my fav zergs, but JD is my fav zerg.

GO JD!

As far as % i think JD has about a 60% shot at winning, i think its actually pretty close :D
Lee Jae Dong! Phil Ivey! Lee Young-Ho! Tom Dwan!
Simple
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States801 Posts
August 20 2009 21:03 GMT
#19
oh man, even more pressure on JD now
Klive5ive
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom6056 Posts
August 20 2009 21:04 GMT
#20
On August 21 2009 06:01 JWD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2009 05:53 zazen wrote:
More than anything, I expect the winner, whoever it is, to be the one that comes out with more intelligent mindgames and plays in unpredictable fashion. At this level of skill, mechanical perfection is a given fact, and just not enough to win.

I agree. Micro sometimes decides super-high-level ZvZ but lately smart builds (i.e. not 12-hatching every game) and clever little tricks (hiding lings is a big one) have been playing a big role. The best ZvZ players are really good at predicting their opponents' builds, and the OSL winner will be no exception...in this regard Yarnc got the best of JD at their last meeting — we'll have to see if JD can turn the tables here.

I really hope this is the case, but I'm a little bit concerned that it won't be. Yarnc may be overwhelmed and get outmicroed.
Don't hate the player - Hate the game
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Online Event
04:00
May Mayhem: Group Stage D2
ShoWTimE vs MaxPax
SHIN vs herO
Clem vs Cure
SHIN vs Clem
ShoWTimE vs SHIN
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 800
PianO 642
Larva 483
sorry 110
soO 79
League of Legends
JimRising 689
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K567
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox655
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor162
Other Games
WinterStarcraft585
C9.Mang0417
PartinGtheBigBoy12
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL14320
Other Games
gamesdonequick1065
StarCraft 2
ESL.tv143
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 62
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota291
League of Legends
• Stunt1359
Other Games
• WagamamaTV129
Upcoming Events
SOOP
2h 18m
DongRaeGu vs sOs
CranKy Ducklings
3h 18m
WardiTV Invitational
4h 18m
AllThingsProtoss
4h 18m
SC Evo League
5h 18m
WardiTV Invitational
7h 18m
Chat StarLeague
9h 18m
PassionCraft
10h 18m
Circuito Brasileiro de…
11h 18m
Online Event
21h 18m
MaxPax vs herO
SHIN vs Cure
Clem vs MaxPax
ShoWTimE vs herO
ShoWTimE vs Clem
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 3h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 4h
AllThingsProtoss
1d 4h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 7h
Chat StarLeague
1d 9h
Circuito Brasileiro de…
1d 11h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
BeSt vs Light
Wardi Open
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs Soulkey
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
GSL Code S
4 days
ByuN vs Rogue
herO vs Cure
Replay Cast
4 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Classic vs Reynor
GuMiho vs Maru
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
GSL Code S
6 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Nation Wars Season 2
PiG Sty Festival 6.0
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
ASL Season 19
YSL S1
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
China & Korea Top Challenge
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSLPRO Spring 2025
2025 GSL S1
Heroes 10 EU
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

NPSL S3
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
2025 GSL S2
DreamHack Dallas 2025
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.