• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:07
CEST 01:07
KST 08:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2313Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon111
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double Recent Patches and the Future Stellar Fest 1 Replay Pack Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) 2026 GSTL Grand Finals SC2 INu's Battles#21 [ 3-Days tournament ] ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? a Announcement on the JEDI Ringing Where can I find Flash replays that work? BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 4 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine All you football fans (soccer)! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8665 users

[OSL] Not Your Father's ZvZ

Forum Index > News
116 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All

[OSL] Not Your Father's ZvZ

Text byJWD
August 20th, 2009 20:39 GMT
B A C C H U S      O S L      2 0 0 9

G R A N D      F I N A L S

[image loading]

Thanks SilverskY!

(Z)Jaedong                                                 (Z)YellOw[ArnC]
vs
Career vZ: 81-25 (76%)                                          Career vZ: 44-44 (50%)
Last 10 vZ: 5-5                                                        Last 10 vZ: 7-3

With its many great Zerg qualifiers and Zerg-friendly maps, it's no surprise the Bacchus OSL 2009 has produced a Zerg versus Zerg Finals — and yet, this outcome has been the cause of much ire and depression here at Teamliquid. I'm here to say: damn the naysayers! The Bacchus OSL 2009's (ZvZ) Grand Finals is going to kick ass, and here are four reasons why. Hype!




1. This Is Not Your Father's ZvZ

[image loading]

Zerg versus Zerg is simply not what it was when it earned its reputation as a relatively unexciting, skill-less, rock-paper-scissors matchup. Just for kicks, I went into TLPD and pulled up the oldest VOD on record which includes ZvZ muta micro (the oldest ZvZ VOD is Yellow's crazy +1 speedling attack, which ends the game before mutas). Here's what I found: nearly stationary mutalisks which consistently die to scourge — a level of micro which, in today's ZvZ scene, would be considered not microing at all. That is boring.

Fast forward two years. The dynamic, weaving, muta-vs.-muta fights of today are still totally absent — watch Chojja defeat Savior with fleets of scourge in the final set of the MSL's first ZvZ Finals, at the 2005 CYON MSL. Another two years, to 2007 and the twilight of Savior's reign: most mutalisk-scourge battles (Savior vs. Jaedong in PL on 10.20.07, for example) still boil down to "attack-move and see who has more stuff". Even ZvZs from 2008 regularly include scourge-on-muta hits in open air, events which are almost absent from top-class ZvZs today (and which, if they are present, are game-breaking).

The trend is obvious: ZvZ mutalisk micro has changed dramatically over the past several years, and with it the entire matchup. As ZvZ's skill ceiling has skyrocketed, so has its entertainment value. Today's S-class Zerg versus Zerg players understand the matchup's metagame like nobody before them, defy "impossible" build order disadvantages, use a host of clever tricks and builds, and beat lesser Zergs with a regularity that betrays the difficulty of their craft. Is it any wonder that these players (Jaedong, Calm, Effort, Yarnc) have between them many of the recent months' most exciting games, and easily the greatest ZvZs of all time?

Jaedong's Avalon MSL semifinal match with Calm may be the best ZvZ series to date, but this OSL Finals is going to blow it out of the water. With so much at stake, so much raw skill between them, and so much practice time on their hands, Jaedong and Yarnc are poised to push Zerg versus Zerg's envelope just a bit further than ever before.




2. A Golden Opportunity for Jaedong

[image loading]

The third-ever Golden Mouse has been forged. If Jaedong claims his third OSL title tomorrow, he will become the youngest player by far to hoist the trophy — both NaDa and July were 21 when they won their third OSLs (the 2nd Shinhan Bank in 2006 and EVER in 2008, respectively) but Jaedong is just 19. The speed with which the Legend Killer has raced to the brink of winning StarCraft's most prestigious individual award is even more impressive in terms of career lengths: while it took both NaDa and July over five years of professional gaming to earn their Golden Mouses, if Jaedong beats Yarnc tomorrow he'll have matched their feat in just over three years. (Jaedong would also join Boxer as the only players ever to win back-to-back OSLs.)

With a Golden Mouse and second consecutive OSL victory on the line, this Finals is Jaedong's opportunity to officially place himself amongst the greatest individual StarCraft players of all time. Having lost in GOM S3, dropped out of the Avalon MSL, and failed his team badly at the Proleague Grand Finals, this series is also JD's only way to salvage a result from this Starleague season worthy of his overall performance in it. In this Finals, Jaedong's unmatched competitiveness will push him harder than ever before.




3. Yarnc Under Pressure

Though it's Jaedong who has a Golden Mouse on the line, Yarnc is actually under greater pressure to perform in this OSL Finals — and not simply because he has to play ZvJ.

[image loading]

"Don't let us down"

First, Yarnc has all of his vanquished teammates' OSL hopes riding on his shoulders. He had a relatively easy run through Hite's side of the bracket — 2-1 vs. Go.go in the Ro8 and 3-0 vs. Type-b in the Ro4 — which means that his teammates' and coaches' expectations for his performance in this match are running high. If Yarnc bombs the Finals, he'll dash those expectations, leave doubts that another Hite member (Leta?) could have given Jaedong a better match, and, most importantly, embarrass Hite by stripping their little in-house tournament of any significance to this OSL's final outcome. Tomorrow night Yarnc plays not only for his first OSL title, but for Hite's dignity.

Second, Fake Yellow has been served this OSL Finals on a silver platter — it's obviously the best title shot of his career, and will in all likelihood retain that title forever. Thanks to this OSL's maps and poor showings from its few Protosses, Yarnc didn't have to put his horrific ZvP to the test once in his entire Finals run. Go.go's cheesy play in the Ro16 gave Yarnc a powderpuff Terran opponent in the Ro8 (instead of Bisu), and Type-b helped punch his Finals ticket by offing Leta and then rolling over and dying in the Ro4. Aside from his stint in the Ro16's group of death, Yarnc's Bacchus OSL 2009 has been an unrepeatable cakewalk — and that makes this Finals his one big chance. If Yellow[arnc] can't win an OSL under these ideal conditions, it's safe to say he never will.




4. Ro16 Grudge Match

[image loading]

Jaedong is even with Fake Yellow in their career series (4-4), but two of those games (two Yarnc wins) were at JD's tournament debut, a 2006 OSL preliminary. Remember the last game Jaedong and Yarnc played? It was their meeting in this OSL's Group A on July 7, and a solid Yarnc win. Jaedong was on the tail end of an awful 17-day, 12-game run that included several key Proleague games, a GOM series with Violet, the conclusion of his Avalon MSL Ro32 group, and his other two OSL Ro16 games. Up 2-0 in the group and exhausted, Jaedong had little incentive to prepare for this game — but likely regretted his poor performance immediately afterwards. Fans on TL cried "slump" and wondered "what's wrong with Jaedong?"

Now almost two months later, Jaedong finally has a shot to avenge that loss — and on a much bigger stage. For Yarnc, the Finals are the ideal opportunity to prove that his Ro16 win was not a fluke.




One More Thing:

+ Show Spoiler [Contains MSL semifinal results] +
Remember this poll? Its results:

[image loading]

If you're amongst the 33%, give yourself a pat on the back. This season both the OSL and MSL have Zerg versus Zerg Finals, something that has never happened before (the OSL proper has never has a ZvZ Finals, and the MSL has had only two: Chojja > Savior at CYON, and Savior > Silver at Pringles 2). If two StarCraft seasons ago was the Golden Age of Protoss, this must be the Golden Age of Zerg — and if history's any indication, we can expect Zergs to struggle mightily in an unfavorable map pool over the next few seasons. Enjoy Zerg dominance while it lasts!

Oh, and some more fun facts, about Zergs at the 08-09 Proleague playoffs: all three super ace games, and three of four regular ace games, featured a Zerg player. Of these seven pivotal sets, three were ZvZs.




I really do think this OSL Finals matchup will defy everyone's expectations and produce an excellent series (fingers crossed that Yarnc brings his A-game). Don't miss it!

Peace,
JWD
Facebook Twitter Reddit
✌
toshi
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Poland469 Posts
August 20 2009 20:43 GMT
#2
IT'S SHOW TIME !
pro-
Pufftrees
Profile Joined March 2009
2449 Posts
August 20 2009 20:44 GMT
#3
Nice write up, I love watching modern ZvZ personally, so micro and quick decision intensive.

Go Jaedong!
Chance favors the prepared mind.
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
August 20 2009 20:45 GMT
#4
On August 21 2009 05:43 toshi wrote:
IT'S SHOW TIME !

YEEAAHHHHHH!!!!
✌
Klive5ive
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom6056 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-20 20:47:55
August 20 2009 20:46 GMT
#5
Yeah I totally agree. ZvZ is an incredible match-up and this series will likely be the highest level ZvZ ever played. Yarnc has great mutalisks in ZvT so there's no reason, with practice, he can't step up. He also has his brother who will likely want to help his younger bro get a title of his own.

It's just a shame they don't bump it up to Bo7/Bo9 to make it last a bit longer.
Don't hate the player - Hate the game
SilverskY
Profile Joined September 2008
Korea (South)3086 Posts
August 20 2009 20:46 GMT
#6
JWD, I posted another version of the splash in the GFX forum, you can quickly go check it out, and replace it with that one if you like it better.
Graphics
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
August 20 2009 20:47 GMT
#7
Jaedong vs OSL curse.
Yarnc vs Yellow curse.
ImGoNNaLoSeNoW
Profile Joined July 2009
Finland61 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-20 20:48:53
August 20 2009 20:48 GMT
#8
JD is my favo player nr 1
Yarnc is nr 2
Result will break my heart same time when im very happy
Only reason why ZvZ is watchable is because it is so intense, and unforgiven
Itachii
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Poland12466 Posts
August 20 2009 20:48 GMT
#9
something died inside me when i realized we will have 2 ZvZ finals
La parole nous a été donnée pour déguiser notre pensée
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13922 Posts
August 20 2009 20:49 GMT
#10
OMG ITS GOING DOWN!!!!
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
August 20 2009 20:51 GMT
#11
way to spoiler the MSL semi finals :/

I didn't get to reading BR's yet or watching any vods, it was like 1 day ago T_T
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
August 20 2009 20:51 GMT
#12
On August 21 2009 05:46 SilverskY wrote:
JWD, I posted another version of the splash in the GFX forum, you can quickly go check it out, and replace it with that one if you like it better.

Done! Looks super, thanks man.
✌
SilverskY
Profile Joined September 2008
Korea (South)3086 Posts
August 20 2009 20:52 GMT
#13
On August 21 2009 05:51 JWD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2009 05:46 SilverskY wrote:
JWD, I posted another version of the splash in the GFX forum, you can quickly go check it out, and replace it with that one if you like it better.

Done! Looks super, thanks man.

No problem! Great job on the write-up!
Graphics
iSiN
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1075 Posts
August 20 2009 20:52 GMT
#14
Jaedong Hwaiting!
Grouty @HoN/PCKJ <--<333 || Jaedong Fan Cafe GFX
zazen
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Brazil695 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-20 20:56:32
August 20 2009 20:53 GMT
#15
Thanks JWD for the excellent write-up. I want to watch this live, and for all the reasons you listed, I'm expecting this ZvZ to be the best ZvZ BO series ever played in the history of this game. There's just too much at stake, these will be the games JD and Yarnc gonna show the world what they are all about.

More than anything, I expect the winner, whoever it is, to be the one that comes out with more intelligent mindgames and plays in unpredictable fashion. At this level of skill, mechanical perfection is a given fact, and just not enough to win.

P.S: Can it be Protoss time again now?
"The quest for nexus has brought many men of genius to insanity... HUEHUEHUE!"
Zeburial
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Sweden1126 Posts
August 20 2009 20:54 GMT
#16
Jaedong will win, else irl! \o/
Empires are not brought down by outside forces - they are destroyed by weaknesses from within
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
August 20 2009 21:01 GMT
#17
On August 21 2009 05:53 zazen wrote:
More than anything, I expect the winner, whoever it is, to be the one that comes out with more intelligent mindgames and plays in unpredictable fashion. At this level of skill, mechanical perfection is a given fact, and just not enough to win.

I agree. Micro sometimes decides super-high-level ZvZ but lately smart builds (i.e. not 12-hatching every game) and clever little tricks (hiding lings is a big one) have been playing a big role. The best ZvZ players are really good at predicting their opponents' builds, and the OSL winner will be no exception...in this regard Yarnc got the best of JD at their last meeting — we'll have to see if JD can turn the tables here.
✌
Pokernubz
Profile Joined May 2009
Canada88 Posts
August 20 2009 21:03 GMT
#18
excellent write up, thanks

I love yarnc one of my fav zergs, but JD is my fav zerg.

GO JD!

As far as % i think JD has about a 60% shot at winning, i think its actually pretty close :D
Lee Jae Dong! Phil Ivey! Lee Young-Ho! Tom Dwan!
Simple
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States801 Posts
August 20 2009 21:03 GMT
#19
oh man, even more pressure on JD now
Klive5ive
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom6056 Posts
August 20 2009 21:04 GMT
#20
On August 21 2009 06:01 JWD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2009 05:53 zazen wrote:
More than anything, I expect the winner, whoever it is, to be the one that comes out with more intelligent mindgames and plays in unpredictable fashion. At this level of skill, mechanical perfection is a given fact, and just not enough to win.

I agree. Micro sometimes decides super-high-level ZvZ but lately smart builds (i.e. not 12-hatching every game) and clever little tricks (hiding lings is a big one) have been playing a big role. The best ZvZ players are really good at predicting their opponents' builds, and the OSL winner will be no exception...in this regard Yarnc got the best of JD at their last meeting — we'll have to see if JD can turn the tables here.

I really hope this is the case, but I'm a little bit concerned that it won't be. Yarnc may be overwhelmed and get outmicroed.
Don't hate the player - Hate the game
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 53m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ViBE116
CosmosSc2 33
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 592
Artosis 535
910 32
Dota 2
monkeys_forever579
League of Legends
JimRising 565
Counter-Strike
minikerr14
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby5668
Other Games
summit1g7620
shahzam532
C9.Mang0284
ArmadaUGS88
Trikslyr42
ZombieGrub24
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick281
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream145
[ Show 9 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 140
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
53m
Kung Fu Cup
11h 53m
Stellar Fest
13h 53m
The PondCast
1d 10h
OSC
1d 13h
Stellar Fest
1d 13h
OSC
2 days
Stellar Fest
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Online Event
3 days
[ Show More ]
FEL
3 days
AI Arena Tournament
3 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
INu's Battles
4 days
herO vs Classic
Percival vs Rogue
BSL Open Qualifier
4 days
BSL Open Qualifier
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
INu's Battles
6 days
SHIN vs Cure
ByuN vs Zoun
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-27
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.