• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:33
CEST 02:33
KST 09:33
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2313Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon111
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double Recent Patches and the Future Stellar Fest 1 Replay Pack Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) 2026 GSTL Grand Finals SC2 INu's Battles#21 [ 3-Days tournament ] ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? a Announcement on the JEDI Ringing Where can I find Flash replays that work? BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 4 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine All you football fans (soccer)! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8429 users

ZvZ Build Counters

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
1sd2sd3sd
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
660 Posts
January 08 2006 09:06 GMT
#1
It seems like:

2 hatch > 12 pool > 9 pool > 2 hatch

While 12 pool is obviously the safest, its hard to come back when they get the 2 hatch off. So is there a way to win vs 2 hatch when you 12 pool assuming that the other player make nearly zero mistakes?
Night[Mare
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Mexico4793 Posts
January 08 2006 09:22 GMT
#2
no way xd, every single build order is way winable if you play it right. For example 9 pool vs 12, or 12 vs 2 hatch, but not 2 hatch vs 9 pool . But yes, its a gamble and you lose some advantage but thats it.
Teamliquidian townie
mitsy
Profile Joined October 2005
United States1792 Posts
January 08 2006 09:31 GMT
#3
7 pool is the shit?
express yourself--madonna
StarN
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States2587 Posts
January 08 2006 09:54 GMT
#4
i dont know anything about ZvZ but that Jju vs Oversky Proleague game was a pretty sexy representation of how 12Hatch beats 9Pool
Retired BW Noob
Day[9]
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
United States7366 Posts
January 08 2006 16:58 GMT
#5
yea alot of people have that feeling about the rock/paper/scissorsness of the matchup

i think its more accurate to say

12 hatch early expand > 12 pool > 9 pool > 12 hatch early expand

but even then i disagree very much so

you can pull off a win in any circumstance if you play it out right (except for 9 pool vs 12 hatch early expo perhaps)
Whenever I encounter some little hitch, or some of my orbs get out of orbit, nothing pleases me so much as to make the crooked straight and crush down uneven places. www.day9.tv
Tycho
Profile Joined April 2003
Netherlands351 Posts
January 08 2006 17:24 GMT
#6
i haven't lost a single zvz YET with 6 pool, seems like the constant stream of lings well just owns!
Just enjoy!
sdpgposd
Profile Joined October 2005
United Kingdom1464 Posts
January 08 2006 19:04 GMT
#7
hahahaha, 6pool vs me and you will die instantly :D

best build zvz is 9 scout, 11 gas, 11 pool 14 hatch if he isnt rushing

lord

lings speed

drone then lings ;o

depends if he goes aggressive, position - etc

but 10 pool gas ling rush can pwn too
mitsy
Profile Joined October 2005
United States1792 Posts
January 08 2006 21:24 GMT
#8
7 pool kills your "best build" "hahhaha" to you, fag.
express yourself--madonna
sdpgposd
Profile Joined October 2005
United Kingdom1464 Posts
January 08 2006 21:29 GMT
#9
hahahaha, no.
CCHS
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United States614 Posts
January 08 2006 23:49 GMT
#10
4 pool>all
Believe in the Ball! Throw Yourself!
gulii
Profile Joined November 2004
Sweden2795 Posts
January 09 2006 00:23 GMT
#11
Omg on this thread. Should have closed it after Days post.

I use 12 gas 11 pool the most. And I find it more effective cuz those extra gas can make an upg and still compete with the opponents mutta count (correct me please. Its a hell if you face a 9 pool, but can win you the game.)

You can also just make som more muttas
mitsy
Profile Joined October 2005
United States1792 Posts
January 09 2006 02:40 GMT
#12
this thread is full of people who bitch and moan when they get 4 pooled. that's all i got to say.
express yourself--madonna
KaasZerg
Profile Joined November 2005
Netherlands927 Posts
January 09 2006 07:14 GMT
#13
On January 09 2006 11:40 mitsy wrote:
this thread is full of people who bitch and moan when they get 4 pooled. that's all i got to say.

If they suffer from alot of 4 pools don't play small maps and with a minumum of 4 startingpostions. If they don't find you early they are screwed and have lost the momentum of the game by their minimum economy.
1sd2sd3sd
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
660 Posts
January 09 2006 21:29 GMT
#14
Only one person besides yourself mentioned 4 pool in this thread...
Resonate
Profile Joined October 2002
United Kingdom8402 Posts
January 09 2006 21:59 GMT
#15
12-hatch into cancel hatch at 97% > 9-pool

doesn't it oversky...
Memory lane in nice
Redstorm[MFx]
Profile Joined September 2005
Norway258 Posts
January 10 2006 03:09 GMT
#16
haha lol @ resonate

+_+
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
00:00
#101 (PatchesSC Mod Edition)
PiGStarcraft348
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft348
ViBE121
CosmosSc2 59
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 1988
Artosis 603
Shuttle 559
910 29
Dota 2
monkeys_forever692
Counter-Strike
minikerr18
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox506
Other Games
summit1g7146
JimRising 589
shahzam589
C9.Mang0269
Maynarde131
ArmadaUGS43
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick933
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream135
[ Show 8 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Kung Fu Cup
10h 27m
Stellar Fest
12h 27m
The PondCast
1d 9h
OSC
1d 12h
Stellar Fest
1d 12h
OSC
1d 23h
Stellar Fest
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Online Event
3 days
FEL
3 days
[ Show More ]
AI Arena Tournament
3 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
INu's Battles
4 days
herO vs Classic
Percival vs Rogue
BSL Open Qualifier
4 days
BSL Open Qualifier
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
INu's Battles
6 days
SHIN vs Cure
ByuN vs Zoun
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-27
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.