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Hmm...I never actually read the post unless nothing is going on...maybe i should do that now.
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Ouch that was a brutal killing. Graphic too. And poor birdie 
Anyway, back to work.
-----------------------------------------<LucasWoJ
Original Message:
Wow, I was considering the exact same thing the second he posted claiming that nemy was the traitor. In my early PMs with him, I tried getting him to indirectly answer the question of whether he genuinely thought that nemy was the traitor or whether he had some greater scheme (he assumed I meant, "nemy is a dt so he might live through the night.")
He essentially avoided answering for a time and eventually claimed that he was convinced nemy was not blue. After asking for my advice on how to post, he took three hours to gather his thoughts and post (after which he left).
Since, I've also had a conversation with nemy in which I was hoping for a specific response, but I got absolutely nothing. I'm not so convinced nemy is not the traitor. Here's the PM:
From: nemY
Subject: Re: mafia
Date: 5/18/09 11:57
Thanks!
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Original Message:
If the mafia family hasn't contacted you yet they're absolutely retarded. You're the most transparent traitor that has ever played this game. Just shut up and leave the thread already. You're going to die, get over it.
A little later, he PM'd me again saying: From: nemY
Subject: So?
Date: 5/18/09 12:22
Will you vote for me as mayor/pardoner?
I sent both PMs to Ver for him to comment (a day ago), but he chose not to respond to those PMs.
Also, in his first few posts, Ver said something to the effect of "would I be posting this often if I were mafia?" which raised my eyebrows a little. He had only posted three times in a matter of a couple hours before then (none of which were particularly long posts).
-----------------------------------------<Me
Original Message:
No he hasn't. He pmed me twice between this last post and his mafia % list post. Some people I've been talking to seem to think he's a strong candidate for mafia, but I'm more inclined to think he's the real traitor.
It would make sense in that
a) Qatol would give traitor to a person who could play the role well. its something we've discussed in irc when we were deciding the roles etc.
b) I doubt Ver would be this crazy to think this is good mafia play. He may be trying to get lynched. I don't know why he would want to get lynched this quickly as I don't think we were onto a real mafia candidate earlier on and I don't know if he would cause that much chaos unless we were onto someone he thought was mafia. But then again, maybe he is hoping to cause enough chaos to give the mafia a hefty lead early on.
c) It would explain his reaction to nemY. Sure, probably most people were pointing at nemY and saying traitor! But I think it would make sense for Ver to play this card. Note that the traitor would be the only person who actually knew if nemY is a true DT or not (I'm assuming nemY isn't red, and I don't think anyone does at this point). By diverting votes from nemY, Ver a) causes the town chaos, b) wastes a town lynch, and c) wastes the good office of mayor had it been in a towny's hands.
That is one possible theory. But its just a theory I don't know, what do you think? Something fishy is definitely going on. I doubt he's blue. He's acting totally out of character.
-----------------------------------------<LucasWoJ
Original Message:
Has he stayed in contact with you via PMs since his last post? It seems there's a trend in his posting (meaning the "I'll come on for a moment and leave without saying anything else", and I'm hoping it's only because of his illness).
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Except you never answered him for a whole day...
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Thus supporting the idea that he's most likely traitor dont ya think? He wants to kill you obviously because it would sabotage the town. Eliminate both elected positions. For free. No mafia deaths necessary.
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^^ Do you have a CC for us ?
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On May 19 2009 14:16 Tricode wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2009 14:12 Incognito wrote:
Thus supporting the idea that he's most likely traitor dont ya think? He wants to kill you obviously because it would sabotage the town. Eliminate both elected positions. For free. No mafia deaths necessary. If he was traitor then how would he get them killed? That would mean he found a mafia member, which i don't know how good you have to be to find someone that is mafia and tell them with out the worry of accidentally telling a person who is not mafia and blowing your traitor r/c cover.
What??? Well this was in response to Ver so maybe you got confused since Ace posted right before me?
Anyway I meant that Ver is likely traitor the way he's playing now. If he were mafia, this is quite frankly poor play. But if he were traitor, it would make sense. I'm not saying he told anyone he is traitor. But presumably Ver could have planned to get Ace killed (by the mafia) by killing off the BGs. BGs are dead, so both Ver and Ace can be night killed. Then both our elected town offices are down the drain, and Ace is dead (if he is town). Ver would also be dead, but it doesn't matter since he doesnt affect mafia KP. He would have wasted the two days for the town to eliminate him and thrown the town into chaos. Using L's terms, its a good risk to reward ratio isnt it? Nice play my friend.
*edit...apparently the ":" sign before the "r" makes some weird smiley?
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Caller the only reason why you think cognizance is a clue pointing to me is because you made it a clue pointing to me when i was mafia in your game 
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On May 19 2009 14:27 Tricode wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2009 14:22 Incognito wrote:On May 19 2009 14:16 Tricode wrote:On May 19 2009 14:12 Incognito wrote:
Thus supporting the idea that he's most likely traitor dont ya think? He wants to kill you obviously because it would sabotage the town. Eliminate both elected positions. For free. No mafia deaths necessary. If he was traitor then how would he get them killed? That would mean he found a mafia member, which i don't know how good you have to be to find someone that is mafia and tell them with out the worry of accidentally telling a person who is not mafia and blowing your traitor r/c cover. What??? Well this was in response to Ver so maybe you got confused since Ace posted right before me? Anyway I meant that Ver is likely traitor the way he's playing now. If he were mafia, this is quite frankly poor play. But if he were traitor, it would make sense. I'm not saying he told anyone he is traitor. But presumably Ver could have planned to get Ace killed (by the mafia) by killing off the BGs. BGs are dead, so both Ver and Ace can be night killed. Then both our elected town offices are down the drain, and Ace is dead (if he is town). Ver would also be dead, but it doesn't matter since he doesnt affect mafia KP. He would have wasted the two days for the town to eliminate him and thrown the town into chaos. Using L's terms, its a good risk to reward ratio isnt it? Nice play my friend. *edit...apparently the ":" sign before the "r" makes some weird smiley? The traitor thing doesn't make sense! Unless Traitor's role changed since the last time i looked at it. He can't kill people. He would have to mafia do it for him.
*sigh*
He doesn't actually kill Ace he just allows Ace to be killed by the mafia. Since now there's no more BG protection
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On May 19 2009 14:29 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2009 14:28 nemY wrote:Ugh fine take it for what it's worth please. Original Message: No, that is not a clue. Red herring! http://sketchedout.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/red-herring_color.jpg----------------------------------------- Original Message: since i'm running out of time, been busy, and haven't receieved much input i'll ask, is "There was no clear horizon separating the star-filled sky and the dark, choppy waters of the Liquia Sea." a clue related to any mafia players? If i had more time and had actually been thinking about it, i'd get a better question. Enjoy. I think this is legit lol.
Hahaha. Nice red herring pic !
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On May 19 2009 14:38 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2009 14:36 Tricode wrote:On May 19 2009 14:34 Ace wrote:On May 19 2009 14:32 Tricode wrote:On May 19 2009 14:29 Incognito wrote:On May 19 2009 14:27 Tricode wrote:On May 19 2009 14:22 Incognito wrote:On May 19 2009 14:16 Tricode wrote:On May 19 2009 14:12 Incognito wrote:
Thus supporting the idea that he's most likely traitor dont ya think? He wants to kill you obviously because it would sabotage the town. Eliminate both elected positions. For free. No mafia deaths necessary. If he was traitor then how would he get them killed? That would mean he found a mafia member, which i don't know how good you have to be to find someone that is mafia and tell them with out the worry of accidentally telling a person who is not mafia and blowing your traitor r/c cover. What??? Well this was in response to Ver so maybe you got confused since Ace posted right before me? Anyway I meant that Ver is likely traitor the way he's playing now. If he were mafia, this is quite frankly poor play. But if he were traitor, it would make sense. I'm not saying he told anyone he is traitor. But presumably Ver could have planned to get Ace killed (by the mafia) by killing off the BGs. BGs are dead, so both Ver and Ace can be night killed. Then both our elected town offices are down the drain, and Ace is dead (if he is town). Ver would also be dead, but it doesn't matter since he doesnt affect mafia KP. He would have wasted the two days for the town to eliminate him and thrown the town into chaos. Using L's terms, its a good risk to reward ratio isnt it? Nice play my friend. *edit...apparently the ":" sign before the "r" makes some weird smiley? The traitor thing doesn't make sense! Unless Traitor's role changed since the last time i looked at it. He can't kill people. He would have to mafia do it for him. *sigh* He doesn't actually kill Ace he just allows Ace to be killed by the mafia. Since now there's no more BG protection .........i dont know what you are trying to qoute for or sighing about. I think there is some miss communication between us. /facepalm and you were doing so well too I might have just missed something. All i am saying is, Ver can't be traitor if you saying he offed his BG's. That would mean he found a mafia that trusted he was actually a traitor and trusted him and avoided talking to a townie who figured out he was traitor through pms or w/e. Point is, if Ver helped cause these deaths, then he is mafia. Though i think it could be possible luck what happened. But Traitor to me seems unlikely. Almost, but you still forgot one scenario: Ver isn't a traitor - he's mafia.
What? Why wouldn't he off his BGs as a traitor? He could just be attempting to make mass chaos. And he did say that if he were traitor he would make mass chaos.
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Explanation: Assume Ver is traitor. He makes chaos. He somehow finds the roles of his bodyguards. He kills them and then assumes that the mafia will off Ace as well.
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Ver never has to contact a mafia to make the plan to kill Ace. Its all a natural result of him wanting to make chaos.
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On May 19 2009 14:45 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2009 14:41 Incognito wrote:On May 19 2009 14:38 Ace wrote:On May 19 2009 14:36 Tricode wrote:On May 19 2009 14:34 Ace wrote:On May 19 2009 14:32 Tricode wrote:On May 19 2009 14:29 Incognito wrote:On May 19 2009 14:27 Tricode wrote:On May 19 2009 14:22 Incognito wrote:On May 19 2009 14:16 Tricode wrote:
[quote]
If he was traitor then how would he get them killed? That would mean he found a mafia member, which i don't know how good you have to be to find someone that is mafia and tell them with out the worry of accidentally telling a person who is not mafia and blowing your traitor r/c cover. What??? Well this was in response to Ver so maybe you got confused since Ace posted right before me? Anyway I meant that Ver is likely traitor the way he's playing now. If he were mafia, this is quite frankly poor play. But if he were traitor, it would make sense. I'm not saying he told anyone he is traitor. But presumably Ver could have planned to get Ace killed (by the mafia) by killing off the BGs. BGs are dead, so both Ver and Ace can be night killed. Then both our elected town offices are down the drain, and Ace is dead (if he is town). Ver would also be dead, but it doesn't matter since he doesnt affect mafia KP. He would have wasted the two days for the town to eliminate him and thrown the town into chaos. Using L's terms, its a good risk to reward ratio isnt it? Nice play my friend. *edit...apparently the ":" sign before the "r" makes some weird smiley? The traitor thing doesn't make sense! Unless Traitor's role changed since the last time i looked at it. He can't kill people. He would have to mafia do it for him. *sigh* He doesn't actually kill Ace he just allows Ace to be killed by the mafia. Since now there's no more BG protection .........i dont know what you are trying to qoute for or sighing about. I think there is some miss communication between us. /facepalm and you were doing so well too I might have just missed something. All i am saying is, Ver can't be traitor if you saying he offed his BG's. That would mean he found a mafia that trusted he was actually a traitor and trusted him and avoided talking to a townie who figured out he was traitor through pms or w/e. Point is, if Ver helped cause these deaths, then he is mafia. Though i think it could be possible luck what happened. But Traitor to me seems unlikely. Almost, but you still forgot one scenario: Ver isn't a traitor - he's mafia. What? Why wouldn't he off his BGs as a traitor? He could just be attempting to make mass chaos. And he did say that if he were traitor he would make mass chaos. uh...I didn't say he wouldnt.
I was trying to answer Tricode there but quoted you oops.
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On May 19 2009 14:28 nemY wrote:Ugh fine take it for what it's worth please. Show nested quote +Original Message: No, that is not a clue. Red herring! http://sketchedout.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/red-herring_color.jpg----------------------------------------- Original Message: since i'm running out of time, been busy, and haven't receieved much input i'll ask, is "There was no clear horizon separating the star-filled sky and the dark, choppy waters of the Liquia Sea." a clue related to any mafia players? If i had more time and had actually been thinking about it, i'd get a better question. Enjoy.
Hey guys I just realized...IF THIS IS REAL ANOTHER DT HAS THE SAME PIC.
If you are this DT, it is safe to roleclaim to nemY. If you do not have this same pic, nemY is a fraud. I doubt Qatol would send a red herring pic to one DT and not the other. Is my logic flawed here anyone?
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Oh true. Hmm...well if you did get a red herring pic...
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Oh. I get what you guys were saying about the unlikelihood of Ver being traitor. It makes sense, although if he's mafia that is awful poor play. Like you've said, this is a veteran game. Anyway, leaving Ver alive doesn't make sense either way as he is causing the town chaos, and even if he is traitor, that's 3 votes for the mafia....
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To everyone who is saying: They're smarter than that: Look. Smart people can often make stupid mistakes. Stupid people, on the other hand, usually make less smart mistakes. But really, if you are going to play this game assuming that everyone is "smart enough to not do X", well guess what? They'll do it. Being smart means you take risks and you sometimes play unpredictably. Or else they'll catch you with your pants down when you point and say, "Hey they're too smart to do that".
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Um...no you didn't? I thought you said lynch lynch lynch gogogo.
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The other possibility is that Qatol screwed up
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EPT
