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On May 10 2009 05:03 Malongo wrote:
Ok im out of the this discussion. Really nobody really addresed the main point in my post, L and 0czec feel that im attacking mafia. Read the post. EVEN IF THE TOWN LYNCHED ANOTHER MAFIA THE RESULT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SAME. Please learn to read thi is disgusting. Im not evaluating who played better or what the town made wrong. The fact is what i posted in caps. If you cant discuss that ima stop now. So for town to get a chance has to kill AT LEAST 2 mafia by day 5. Stop acting like a inmature im discussing the balance not how did you play.
Ok, so with 2 vigi hits, 5 lynches, and you probably should have been using 2 double lynches by day 5 (9 kills) you can't kill 2 mafia?
I'm not saying anything about how I played. That is irrelevant right now. I'm just trying to ask you what you think would be balanced? How many mafia do you think the town should have to figure out by day 4? day 5? Personally, I think it should be at LEAST 3-4 by day 5.
I just went back and checked BC's first game (which was pretty close). 4 mafia dead day 4, 5 on day 5. Do you think the town needs to work faster than that? Slower than that?
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On May 10 2009 05:27 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2009 05:20 Qatol wrote:On May 10 2009 05:03 Malongo wrote:
Ok im out of the this discussion. Really nobody really addresed the main point in my post, L and 0czec feel that im attacking mafia. Read the post. EVEN IF THE TOWN LYNCHED ANOTHER MAFIA THE RESULT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SAME. Please learn to read thi is disgusting. Im not evaluating who played better or what the town made wrong. The fact is what i posted in caps. If you cant discuss that ima stop now. So for town to get a chance has to kill AT LEAST 2 mafia by day 5. Stop acting like a inmature im discussing the balance not how did you play. Ok, so with 2 vigi hits, 5 lynches, and you probably should have been using 2 double lynches by day 5 (9 kills) you can't kill 2 mafia? I'm not saying anything about how I played. That is irrelevant right now. I'm just trying to ask you what you think would be balanced? How many mafia do you think the town should have to figure out by day 4? day 5? Personally, I think it should be at LEAST 3-4 by day 5. I just went back and checked BC's first game (which was pretty close). 4 mafia dead day 4, 5 on day 5. Do you think the town needs to work faster than that? Slower than that? You sure checked about checklists didnt you? AH and no millers and rolechecks first day. Honestly im replying to a wall. LETS WORK THIS WAY QATOL: 1 First day lynch is random based. The town has almost 0 chance to get a mafia even with a townie in the office. TRUE OR FALSE you reply please. 2 Days 2, 3, 4 and five the town got a mafia lynch TRUE OR FALSE 3 EVEN supposing that town got 2 mafia lynchs day 2 3 4 DID THE TOWN STAND A CHANCE DAY 5? TRUE or FALSE.
I agree day 1 lynch is totally random. Town has approximately a 1 in 5 chance of getting a mafia. However I think it isn't unreasonable for the town to have killed at least 1 mafia with the day 2 lynch and/or the night 2 vigi hits. KP formula this game was funky, but the town HAS to decrease it decently early or they stand no chance. And that is how I think it should be.
I argue that you are forgetting about vigi hits. Also you don't think it would have mattered if you had taken away a KP from us earlier? If you had killed say Ver day 2 and me day 3 (or vice versa)? Do you even know what that would have done to our bluesniping? Not to mention my family had about even odds of just putting in a hitlist on the other family.
I realize that game had votechecks. Vigilantes also had 2 hits instead of 1. Notice I decreased the number of mafia I expected to catch by day 5 (the town had 5 and could have barely won if they had stayed active; I said I expect town to have caught 3-4 on our their meaning 4-5 dead mafia thanks to 2 families). Again, how many dead mafia do you think is reasonable by day 4 or day 5?
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On May 10 2009 05:59 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2009 05:43 Qatol wrote:On May 10 2009 05:27 Malongo wrote:On May 10 2009 05:20 Qatol wrote:On May 10 2009 05:03 Malongo wrote:
Ok im out of the this discussion. Really nobody really addresed the main point in my post, L and 0czec feel that im attacking mafia. Read the post. EVEN IF THE TOWN LYNCHED ANOTHER MAFIA THE RESULT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SAME. Please learn to read thi is disgusting. Im not evaluating who played better or what the town made wrong. The fact is what i posted in caps. If you cant discuss that ima stop now. So for town to get a chance has to kill AT LEAST 2 mafia by day 5. Stop acting like a inmature im discussing the balance not how did you play. Ok, so with 2 vigi hits, 5 lynches, and you probably should have been using 2 double lynches by day 5 (9 kills) you can't kill 2 mafia? I'm not saying anything about how I played. That is irrelevant right now. I'm just trying to ask you what you think would be balanced? How many mafia do you think the town should have to figure out by day 4? day 5? Personally, I think it should be at LEAST 3-4 by day 5. I just went back and checked BC's first game (which was pretty close). 4 mafia dead day 4, 5 on day 5. Do you think the town needs to work faster than that? Slower than that? You sure checked about checklists didnt you? AH and no millers and rolechecks first day. Honestly im replying to a wall. LETS WORK THIS WAY QATOL: 1 First day lynch is random based. The town has almost 0 chance to get a mafia even with a townie in the office. TRUE OR FALSE you reply please. 2 Days 2, 3, 4 and five the town got a mafia lynch TRUE OR FALSE 3 EVEN supposing that town got 2 mafia lynchs day 2 3 4 DID THE TOWN STAND A CHANCE DAY 5? TRUE or FALSE. I agree day 1 lynch is totally random. Town has approximately a 1 in 5 chance of getting a mafia. However I think it isn't unreasonable for the town to have killed at least 1 mafia with the day 2 lynch and/or the night 2 vigi hits. KP formula this game was funky, but the town HAS to decrease it decently early or they stand no chance. And that is how I think it should be. I argue that you are forgetting about vigi hits. Also you don't think it would have mattered if you had taken away a KP from us earlier? If you had killed say Ver day 2 and me day 3 (or vice versa)? Do you even know what that would have done to our bluesniping? Not to mention my family had about even odds of just putting in a hitlist on the other family. I realize that game had votechecks. Vigilantes also had 2 hits instead of 1. Notice I decreased the number of mafia I expected to catch by day 5 (the town had 5 and could have barely won if they had stayed active; I said I expect town to have caught 3-4 on our their meaning 4-5 dead mafia thanks to 2 families). Again, how many dead mafia do you think is reasonable by day 4 or day 5? Honestly you didnt answer all my questions. Calling that the vigi hits balance the game is nonsense, one vigi failed other was killed before hit, thats part of the game not completly related to balance. If something vigis DONT want to send theyr hits early so calling balance there is not really fair for the disscusion. Please lets AGAIN think suppose ver was killed day 3 for a vigi well played, DID THE TOWN STAND A CHANCE DAY 5? And most importantly Day 5 we HAD 2 mafia but we didnt stand a chance to get the votes even with full activity. This is my last post. I dont want to keep this going just look and read oczec, L and ver responses, the only thing you are arguing is how well mafia sniped blues or how bad the town played, i really dont care.
Without ver after day 3? Let's see.... iLoveKTF would have probably died a cycle or 2 later. Fishball was a 50/50 of dying at all. Scamp would not have died. The mafia would have also not killed 3 more players, almost all of whom were voting. I'm unsure which question I didn't answer. I guess did the town stand a chance if they had gotten another mafia sooner? Absolutely.
As far as vigis go, I see the role this way: A missed vigi hit is the same as a missed lynch. A vigi who dies without using his hit is the same as the town failing to use a double lynch. In my view you didn't miss 2 lynches (I won't even count my auto-lynch), you missed 3 because of Caller's failed hit. You didn't fail to double lynch once (day 3), you failed to double lynch twice because you lost Rage (who should have realized he was in trouble when Bockit flipped red and sog said he was suspicious).
You realize that if you had full activity that last day, the town would have won. I did the math. With the failed double lynch, mafia win 3-2. Without it, the town win like 10-0 (don't remember exactly the numbers, but the town win). That last lynch was actually a decently large risk because most of the mafia outed themselves.
Anyways, this debate is really getting nowhere. If anyone wants to continue it, PM me.
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On May 10 2009 06:35 Incognito wrote:
Regardless of whether or not it would have changed the outcome of the game, we need to know the rules. But seriously Qatol might have been lynched day 3 if we'd have known. He barely survived by 2-3 votes. Which isn't too hard to get once you point out the rules.
Agreed. I think one lesson we can take away from this is everyone should know the rules from the start.
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On May 10 2009 06:37 Ace wrote:
I don't know, I think some Townies generally still didn't realize Qatol was mafia ^_^. Even knowing there were 2 Mafia families what's the point of keeping him alive - he isn't gonna do what the town says anyway lol.
Sure I will. As long as the town wants to lynch a townie!
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EPT
